second fermentation in pub keg?

oceanman

just new to this brewing lark guys. i have ordered a coopers beer kit and my plan is to do the second fermentation in a 30 litre beer keg priming with the required amount of sugar, mainly to save all the hassle with bottles ect, i know i will have to make up some sort of spunding valve to release pressure. anyone else try anything like this? any advice...thanks
mods...feel free to move if post is in the wrong place.

BeerNut

By "second fermentation" here do you mean conditioning, ie carbonating the beer ready for serving? If so, the first question is what you plan to do next -- hook up the keg to a tap and gas?

If you've done your priming calculations correctly you shouldn't be releasing pressure: you need that gas to make the beer fizzy.

oceanman

BeerNut wrote: »

By "second fermentation" here do you mean conditioning, ie carbonating the beer ready for serving? If so, the first question is what you plan to do next -- hook up the keg to a tap and gas?

If you've done your priming calculations correctly you shouldn't be releasing pressure: you need that gas to make the beer fizzy.

hi, what im hoping to do is after the fermentation is finished, transfer the brew into the keg with priming sugar and let it carbonate naturally. like it would it the bottle/bottles, if that makes sense.

Bogwoppit

oceanman wrote: »

hi, what im hoping to do is after the fermentation is finished, transfer the brew into the keg with priming sugar and let it carbonate naturally. like it would it the bottle/bottles, if that makes sense.

If you intend to serve from the keg you’ll need the correct coupler for the type of keg you’re using, there are 2 main types.

If you’re serving from the keg you’ll also need a CO2 supply, when you have a CO2 supply it’s also a lot easier to force carbonate using that rather than a second fermentation. Just set the pressure to 15psi for a few days, job done.

As well as the coupler you’ll need a bottle of CO2, a regulator, pipes and a tap.

The issue with pub kegs is getting them clean between batches. Have a look at corny kegs, perfect for home brewing.

oceanman

Bogwoppit wrote: »

If you intend to serve from the keg you’ll need the correct coupler for the type of keg you’re using, there are 2 main types.

If you’re serving from the keg you’ll also need a CO2 supply, when you have a CO2 supply it’s also a lot easier to force carbonate using that rather than a second fermentation. Just set the pressure to 15psi for a few days, job done.

As well as the coupler you’ll need a bottle of CO2, a regulator, pipes and a tap.

The issue with pub kegs is getting them clean between batches. Have a look at corny kegs, perfect for home brewing.

i know what you are saying about the gas and regulator ect but i was hoping to naturally carbonate rather than force carbonate, i do have the proper coupler for the keg.

Bogwoppit

oceanman wrote: »

i know what you are saying about the gas and regulator ect but i was hoping to naturally carbonate rather than force carbonate, i do have the proper coupler for the keg.

The problem with that is you’ll run out of pressure fairly quick, to dispense the whole keg you’ll need a gas bottle and a regulator.

oceanman

Bogwoppit wrote: »

The problem with that is you’ll run out of pressure fairly quick, to dispense the whole keg you’ll need a gas bottle and a regulator.

ah yeah i know that and i think i might be able to get my hands on a regulator and gas, i was just hoping to let it condition naturally, some people seem to think the flavour is better that way.

BeerNut

Bogwoppit wrote: »

The problem with that is you’ll run out of pressure fairly quick, to dispense the whole keg you’ll need a gas bottle and a regulator.

And the beer will oxidise if you're just replacing the beer leaving the keg with air.

Maybe the OP is planning to drink all 30 litres in one go :pac:

BeerNut

oceanman wrote: »

ah yeah i know that and i think i might be able to get my hands on a regulator and gas, i was just hoping to let it condition naturally

It will. It's called "cask conditioning" and it's how your British Real Ales are done. But Real Ale has to be either consumed entirely within a couple of days, or pressurised with gas, after the cask is tapped. Adding top pressure via a CO2 tank once you've started serving does not mean your beer is force carbonated.

oceanman

BeerNut wrote: »

And the beer will oxidise if you're just replacing the beer leaving the keg with air.

Maybe the OP is planning to drink all 30 litres in one go :pac:

ha ha, god be with the days:) no im just thinking of using the keg because i have it..and to save the bother of priming and filling forty odd bottles.

BeerNut

Bottling is a pain, for sure, but I've always considered it a lesser pain than the gas and lines and disconnects and regulators and taps required for kegging.

Batch-priming and bigger bottles might be the way to go for you.

oceanman

BeerNut wrote: »

Bottling is a pain, for sure, but I've always considered it a lesser pain than the gas and lines and disconnects and regulators and taps required for kegging.

Batch-priming and bigger bottles might be the way to go for you.

do you mean like 1 litre bottles, or bigger?

BeerNut

Whatever you're likely to drink in one session. Two litres is half as much bottling as one litre.

sharingan

oceanman wrote: »

just new to this brewing lark guys. i have ordered a coopers beer kit and my plan is to do the second fermentation in a 30 litre beer keg priming with the required amount of sugar, mainly to save all the hassle with bottles ect, i know i will have to make up some sort of spunding valve to release pressure. anyone else try anything like this? any advice...thanks

In principle its fine. You will get very accurate carbonation this way. Force carbonating is far from simple, and often hard to rush despite what others have said.

You will need to source a reg and gas to dispense the keg. If you are struggling to get a CO2 bottle, soda stream bottles are a decent alternative (though pricey). Once you have sourced the right bottle.

The tricky problem is that you will need to purge oxygen from the keg before you fill it. You can do this with a gas cylinder - though it can be expensive with soda stream gas - and its possible to do this with fermentation CO2 as well. But that last option can be tricky to setup.

If you dont do this the O2 in the headspace of the beer will oxidise and ruin it.

loyatemu

the kit is presumably 40 pints, so you'll be left with a big headspace in the keg (12 litres). The carbonation calculators online are aimed at bottling, where there's very little headspace.

If you want to naturally condition with sugar you'll have to pressurise that headspace to a PSI appropriate to the temperature the keg will be stored at, otherwise you'll end up with flat beer with a load of CO2 in the headspace. If it's room temp (20C) that's probably about 25psi - set the pressure then disconnect the gas.

oceanman

loyatemu wrote: »

the kit is presumably 40 pints, so you'll be left with a big headspace in the keg (12 litres). The carbonation calculators online are aimed at bottling, where there's very little headspace.

If you want to naturally condition with sugar you'll have to pressurise that headspace to a PSI appropriate to the temperature the keg will be stored at, otherwise you'll end up with flat beer with a load of CO2 in the headspace. If it's room temp (20C) that's probably about 25psi - set the pressure then disconnect the gas.

thanks for all the info folks...im thinking now of just biting the bullet and buying a corny keg, i presume its easier to naturally carb in these?

oceanman

sharingan wrote: »

In principle its fine. You will get very accurate carbonation this way. Force carbonating is far from simple, and often hard to rush despite what others have said.

You will need to source a reg and gas to dispense the keg. If you are struggling to get a CO2 bottle, soda stream bottles are a decent alternative (though pricey). Once you have sourced the right bottle.

The tricky problem is that you will need to purge oxygen from the keg before you fill it. You can do this with a gas cylinder - though it can be expensive with soda stream gas - and its possible to do this with fermentation CO2 as well. But that last option can be tricky to setup.

If you dont do this the O2 in the headspace of the beer will oxidise and ruin it.

what would happen if you left little or no headspace?...is that a silly question?

BeerNut

oceanman wrote: »

thanks for all the info folks...im thinking now of just biting the bullet and buying a corny keg, i presume its easier to naturally carb in these?

Your issue is not natural carbonation. You can naturally carbonate in literally anything that will hold pressurised liquid. Your issue is dispense: how do you get it from the vessel to a glass. Whatever type of keg you use, you will need a way to keep the remaining beer fresh as the keg empties. In practice that means an external gas tank, whatever type of keg you're using.

oceanman wrote: »

what would happen if you left little or no headspace?...is that a silly question?

There are no silly questions here! Oxidation will make your beer taste of wet cardboard, sherry and other undesireable unbeery things.

sharingan

oceanman wrote: »

what would happen if you left little or no headspace?...is that a silly question?

Not sure what you are asking here, ideally *completely* filling your secondary vessel is standard practice, but not always possible. Large carboys for secondary vessels are designed that way so you can transfer and minimise headspace.

If you are doing primary fermentation in the keg, you want to retain a decent amount of headspace, but this can be reduced if you are pressure fermenting.