Forced to work from home

Jim2007

Jim2007 wrote: »

I left Ireland long before WFH was a thing and I don’t know anyone that worked that way in Ireland before that pandemic, so I’m wondering what was the typical setup before that for people who did WFH?

Here in Switzerland before the pandemic WFH for employees came with:
- Company supplied equipment: laptop, printer etc
- Internet connection separate from home network
- home office allowance 2,000 - 4,000 Euros per year
Typically these people lived in the countryside where space was not an issue and a barn could be converted into office space.

Of course WFH during the pandemic has been the typical living room table job etc....

So I wonder how valid are assumptions that WFH conditions will remain the same as now going forward....

Hybrid working in London and Dublin in my experience was much less organised. Been 2 / 3 days a week at home for the last 10 years across 3 companies and all have been remarkably similar

- Personal laptop w. Citrix for one company (a bank, so obviously comfortable with the Citrix security), corporate laptop (which doubles as my personal laptop) for the others
- Home WiFi (or work from cafe / workspace)
- personal printer but ink and paper could be expensed
- No company concern re. home environment unless > 60% (3 days) WFH, when an assessment had to be made of the space available and company would either decline the request to WFH or else fund the improvements required
- No allowance other than any statutory tax benefit

Now WFH will be the norm for most for a 2/3 days a week I see the above as the model. And H&S and other infrastructure considerations would only kick in if WFH full time or almost full time. If WFH 2/3 days a week in a hybrid model we are all on our own

mrslancaster

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Typical WFH jobs in Ireland pre pandemic were customer service for Apple Amazon, Sjopify.

The employee supplied the workspace and high quality broadband. Employer supplied the salary (typically between 22-30k) and computer equipment.

Some MNC allowed part time WFH. The employer supplied an ergonomic assessment.

Some of the biggest & wealthiest organisations on the planet mentioned there Mrs OB, it's no wonder they're loving the WFH model being pushed now post covid. The example of CS jobs on modest salaries providing free space & broadband shows how they increase their bottom line at the expense of workers.

I believe employees should be compensated for any time they WFH whether full of partial weeks. Good example posted above of a yearly allowance 2-4k paid.

Many people find it hard to pay rent, save or get a mortgage these days and MNC businesses making astronomical profits & taking advantage of employees like that is just wrong imo. But they'll keep selling the WFH message & people will go along with it.

ineedeuro

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Typical WFH jobs in Ireland pre pandemic were customer service for Apple Amazon, Sjopify.

The employee supplied the workspace and high quality broadband. Employer supplied the salary (typically between 22-30k) and computer equipment.

Some MNC allowed part time WFH. The employer supplied an ergonomic assessment.

Not really true.
You had people from all sorts of jobs and companies working from home. I know people who work in MNC and I know people who work in small offices and they all had WFH options for 1-2 days per week.
The employer didn't have to supply an ergonomic assessment.
They didn't have to supply a workspace or high quality broadband. It was up to the employee to supply, if they didn't the option was to go into the office. Fairly standard

Now I know one company who did something like that, you had to work in an area that was covered by Eir broadband or you couldn't apply. Which would correspond to the wages you suggested an that information was provided on the job application.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Typical WFH jobs in Ireland pre pandemic were customer service for Apple Amazon, Sjopify.

The employee supplied the workspace and high quality broadband. Employer supplied the salary (typically between 22-30k) and computer equipment.

Some MNC allowed part time WFH. The employer supplied an ergonomic assessment.

Yeh, as usual that is nonsense. Loads of companies did hybrid and in my experience there were no ergonomic assessments done unless WFH full time. Like I’ve said previously I’ve been working hybrid for a decade. It’s not new

givyjoe

irelandrover wrote: »

I know I've seemed it so far but I'm not against WFH. I see it's got big benefits for people but it seems almost entirely related to people that have way too long commutes.

For me none of that applies as I live close to work.

I do think the government should push WFH as it seems like an obvious solution to pollution problems. It would cause a big reduction in traffic. This is entirely personal but I suffer really bad hay-fever. The last year its been great and I'm convinced it's because the air is a lot more pure due to a lack of pollution and that really helps me.

Live ten mins away, zero to do with long commute for me. Extra convenience, much more efficient - open plan loud work floor is a disaster for me personally, way too loud and hard to concentrate on what I need to do. Get more work done and quicker. Much more flexibility, get to head out for a walks in a nice park instead of wasting my time away in a canteen (albeit minus the craic). Zero pressure to finish by x time, I'll keep working if I need to/feel like it, again comes back to flexibility. Would choose WFH over office any day of the week now.

CramCycle

mrslancaster wrote: »

Some of the biggest & wealthiest organisations on the planet mentioned there Mrs OB, it's no wonder they're loving the WFH model being pushed now post covid. The example of CS jobs on modest salaries providing free space & broadband shows how they increase their bottom line at the expense of workers.

I believe employees should be compensated for any time they WFH whether full of partial weeks. Good example posted above of a yearly allowance 2-4k paid.

Many people find it hard to pay rent, save or get a mortgage these days and MNC businesses making astronomical profits & taking advantage of employees like that is just wrong imo. But they'll keep selling the WFH message & people will go along with it.

My experience via friends and family has een that WFH jobs are often paid slightly more than office based equivalents with the odd exception of real entry level positions.

ineedeuro wrote: »

The employer didn't have to supply an ergonomic assessment.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeh, as usual that is nonsense. Loads of companies did hybrid and in my experience there were no ergonomic assessments done unless WFH full time. Like I’ve said previously I’ve been working hybrid for a decade. It’s not new

They would be required to offer it, no different than you should have an ergo assessment offered in an office. Now I know that doesn't happen but it is something they would be required to do and if one wasn't at least offered, at home or in the office, and something happened injury wise, the HSA as a start would be unimpressed, although if it didn't work out well their solicitors would be delighted for such a lax attitude to the basics of H&S legislation. This said, having done loads of them over the years, they aren't worth a sh1t but it provides some cover for the company.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Typical WFH jobs in Ireland pre pandemic were customer service for Apple Amazon, Sjopify.

The employee supplied the workspace and high quality broadband. Employer supplied the salary (typically between 22-30k) and computer equipment.

Some MNC allowed part time WFH. The employer supplied an ergonomic assessment.

Did you just pull that nonsense out of thin air? Cos it looks and reads like you made it up on the spot. And doesn't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.

Mic 1972

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you just pull that nonsense out of thin air? Cos it looks and reads like you made it up on the spot. And doesn't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.

It sounds about right me, I would add ebay to that list. They were already hiring into permanent WFH jobs before the pandemic. Personally I dont remember other companies advertising home based jobs other than those.


Lots of companies allowed work from home but it wasn't as widespread as now

Flinty997

I'm very curious about how WFH is implemented post Pandemic as our office had no consistency about it. It all depended on which manager you had, some allowed it some didn't.

What Covid had done is quashed any argument that it doesn't work, assuming you've got your work done. Which most people have (who can).

Flinty997

Mic 1972 wrote: »

It sounds about right me, I would add ebay to that list. They were already hiring into permanent WFH jobs before the pandemic. Personally I dont remember other companies advertising home based jobs other than those.


Lots of companies allowed work from home but it wasn't as widespread as now

You'd only have seen full-time WFH jobs advertised. A lot of places allowed hybrid working on an informal basis and local arrangements.

Young_gunner

Nuts102 wrote: »

Positives to working from home for me

An extra hour in bed each morning
No need to rush to work after dropping off the kid
More time with my kid
Use lunch breaks to do housework
Drop over for a haircut at half 10 on a Wedneday when it's quiet rather than when it's packed on a Saturday
Avoiding small talk which eats into your hours
Avoiding people who you have to keep helping which eats into your hours
I am finished and at home an hour earlier so I can go out and exercise or socialise for an extra hour
Use downtime to exercise or do something around the house instead of pretending to look busy
Project teams using group chats where everybody sees updates instead of walking around talking in the office where messages may get mixed up

Negatives to working from home

I have a few people who I would consider friends

Solution we are going to meet up for lunch and drinks regularly once everything opens up

Agree with every last bit of this - I’ve did it before on this thread but I feel like I’m getting so much more out of life without spending 2 hours a day on a packed Dart. Long may it continue - well at least til I’m 65!

FileNotFound

I've had hybrid work in my job for years, but personally prefer attending the workplace.
I happen to start early and finish early (When possible) so the commute is much less of an issue than for many others.

I find that my ability to separate work from home when in the office is far better meaning I actually have a better work/life balance when on site.

Overtime is seen by bosses and acknowledged unlike while WFH. The office is more collaborative, you miss lots when WFH and don't have the same support structure.

Mind you my job is busy enough that all year WFH has required over time, I am sure its very different if you are in a role where your job never really justified the hrs.

FileNotFound

Flinty997 wrote: »

I'm very curious about how WFH is implemented post Pandemic as our office had no consistency about it. It all depended on which manager you had, some allowed it some didn't.

What Covid had done is quashed any argument that it doesn't work, assuming you've got your work done. Which most people have (who can).

The only counter I would have to this is that pre covid any company who did WFH had to invest in systems to support it.

Many would offer ergonomic assessments, home office equipment, online IT support at a minimum. When the new laws come in I assume these will be standard.

While this is no real issue for big companies it will be a challenge for many smaller businesses as its a large added exepnse.


I guess we will really have to wait for legislation to see if the Gov make it financially unviable to have WFH in smaller companies.

Mic 1972

Amazon just opened a data centre plant in D15, employees are office based, no WFH

L1011

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Amazon just opened a data centre plant in D15, employees are office based, no WFH

DCs have very few staff and they *need* to be on-site as their purpose is either physical security or assisting with equipment that has gone offline.

ineedeuro

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Amazon just opened a data centre plant in D15, employees are office based, no WFH

A DC will have a couple of lads walking around replacing failed components and managing bits that cannot be accessed from remote

Look at the size of facebook and they will have a max of 120 people in that building.

Mrs OBumble

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Amazon just opened a data centre plant in D15, employees are office based, no WFH

All six of them.

Mic 1972

ineedeuro wrote: »

A DC will have a couple of lads walking around replacing failed components and managing bits that cannot be accessed from remote

Look at the size of facebook and they will have a max of 120 people in that building.

120 people is not small, it's enough to require supervisors, security, facilities, canteen

FileNotFound

FileNotFound wrote: »

The only counter I would have to this is that pre covid any company who did WFH had to invest in systems to support it.

Many would offer ergonomic assessments, home office equipment, online IT support at a minimum. When the new laws come in I assume these will be standard.

While this is no real issue for big companies it will be a challenge for many smaller businesses as its a large added exepnse.


I guess we will really have to wait for legislation to see if the Gov make it financially unviable to have WFH in smaller companies.

There are several companies out there who offer remote ergo assessments, I had to do one myself and it was very thorough.

As for expense, yes there will be, that is undisputable however I would wager that is mitigated by the savings that are available from the reduced requirements for office space. Granted not every business will be able to make the same savings on space

Sunny Disposition

Deleted User wrote: »

There are several companies out there who offer remote ergo assessments, I had to do one myself and it was very thorough.

As for expense, yes there will be, that is undisputable however I would wager that is mitigated by the savings that are available from the reduced requirements for office space. Granted not every business will be able to make the same savings on space

I got one done for all our employees. It should be seen as a real basic.