Forced to work from home

Allinall

ineedeuro wrote: »

Once its in the contract they can do what they want

I know that.

floorpie

jester77 wrote: »

You are free to look for a new job that won't have these demands. They cannot force you to stay.

Sounds like you've just solved every workplace grievance. Shut down the forum.

Padre_Pio

oisinog wrote: »

You talk about the extra costs but dont discuss the offsets.
How much per week have you saved on you commute to work?
How much have you saved on Coffee/Tea/Lunch?

How much have I spent outfitting my office? About 400 euro so far.
Needed to buy a desk, lighting, a second monitor, a webcam, extension leads etc.
Got a chair, laptop, dock and monitor from work.
Lost the use of half my bedroom.

How much will I need to spend? Well, I'll probably need to move to a bigger house and rent two rooms, bedroom and office.

Or buy a house or apartment.

floorpie

floorpie wrote: »

Sounds like you've just solved every workplace grievance. Shut down the forum.

Is jester wrong? Different companies will have different approaches and people are free to look for work in one that suits them

floorpie

Padre_Pio wrote: »

How much have I spent outfitting my office? About 400 euro so far.
Needed to buy a desk, lighting, a second monitor, a webcam, extension leads etc.
Got a chair, laptop, dock and monitor from work.
Lost the use of half my bedroom.

How much will I need to spend? Well, I'll probably need to move to a bigger house and rent two rooms, bedroom and office.

Or buy a house or apartment.

Just change jobs man. Then change house. Then when your new job moves to WFH, change jobs again. You should also factor in the joy you get from sleeping and working from the same room for 18 hours a day into your package (this is like a 20% pay rise when you factor in all of these intangibles). Boards.ie has it cracked.

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

How much have I spent outfitting my office? About 400 euro so far.
Needed to buy a desk, lighting, a second monitor, a webcam, extension leads etc.
Got a chair, laptop, dock and monitor from work.
Lost the use of half my bedroom.

How much will I need to spend? Well, I'll probably need to move to a bigger house and rent two rooms, bedroom and office.

Or buy a house or apartment.

Or just book one of the hot desks :rolleyes:

floorpie

Deleted User wrote: »

Or just book one of the hot desks :rolleyes:

"Your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home"

ineedeuro

Padre_Pio wrote: »

How much have I spent outfitting my office? About 400 euro so far.
Needed to buy a desk, lighting, a second monitor, a webcam, extension leads etc.
Got a chair, laptop, dock and monitor from work.
Lost the use of half my bedroom.

How much will I need to spend? Well, I'll probably need to move to a bigger house and rent two rooms, bedroom and office.

Or buy a house or apartment.

Have you gone to your manager/HR and asked them for a desk?

ineedeuro

floorpie wrote: »

"Your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home"

Unless they totally shut down the office you have options. In both cases here they haven't yet nobody seems to confirm if they have approached a manager or HR.

oisinog

Padre_Pio wrote: »

How much have I spent outfitting my office? About 400 euro so far.
Needed to buy a desk, lighting, a second monitor, a webcam, extension leads etc.
Got a chair, laptop, dock and monitor from work.
Lost the use of half my bedroom.

How much will I need to spend? Well, I'll probably need to move to a bigger house and rent two rooms, bedroom and office.

Or buy a house or apartment.

So working from your rented home had Cost you 4OO more.

How much has your commute reduced?

jester77

floorpie wrote: »

Just change jobs man. Then change house. Then when your new job moves to WFH, change jobs again. You should also factor in the joy you get from sleeping and working from the same room for 18 hours a day into your package (this is like a 20% pay rise when you factor in all of these intangibles). Boards.ie has it cracked.

You could just get your company to pay for a We Work subscription so you can work from there. I have a friend that works for a 100% remote company and they offer We Work (or the local equivalent) to all their employees.

oisinog

WFH does not suit everyone but neither does working in an office full time.

Try and see the positivity in a hybrid working system and you might learn to enjoy it.

If you dislike it speak to your Manager and see what they can do for you.

I'm looking forward to hybrid. Too much of office or home is a bad thing. I think all of our work/balance will improve because of it.

Padre_Pio

oisinog wrote: »

So working from your rented home had Cost you 4OO more.

How much has your commute reduced?

Not much, my commute is only about 20 mins each way driving.
I chose my accommodation because it was close to work.

The bigger cost will come if I need to move somewhere more expensive and further away.
But I'm not looking at this purely from a financial POV.

Mrs OBumble

floorpie wrote: »

"Your permanent desk is expected to be in your own home"

The WFH fans really seem to have difficulty with this.

And with math: if a company says "everyone must work in the office 2 days/week" and also cuts office space to 40% of current space, then NO ONE is getting a permanent desk. Because if some do, then others will be prevented from meeting the 2 days/ week measure.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The WFH fans really seem to have difficulty with this.

And with math: if a company says "everyone must work in the office 2 days/week" and also cuts office space to 40% of current space, then NO ONE is getting a permanent desk. Because if some do, then others will be prevented from meeting the 2 days/ week measure.

Not WFH fans. Flexible / hybrid working fans in the most part

And the fact is that I’ve seen these teething problems before in London years ago as hybrid working was introduced most everywhere. People on both sides, with all the same arguments and fears. There is nothing new in this thread

And everything gets worked out over the first few weeks....the numbers of desks needed, who needs a permanent desk, whether you have zones or groups that share a desk block etc. It took us a couple of iterations the first time around

But then it becomes 2nd nature and everyone slots in appropriately. This whole thread is much ado about nothing IMO

floorpie

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The WFH fans really seem to have difficulty with this.

And with math: if a company says "everyone must work in the office 2 days/week" and also cuts office space to 40% of current space, then NO ONE is getting a permanent desk. Because if some do, then others will be prevented from meeting the 2 days/ week measure.

Yeah, perhaps there'll be extra capacity in the short term, but if the motivation here is to reduce wasted space then I imagine capacity will reduce such that offices are essentially full at all times (likely filled with the people doing their mandatory days).

average_runner

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The WFH fans really seem to have difficulty with this.

And with math: if a company says "everyone must work in the office 2 days/week" and also cuts office space to 40% of current space, then NO ONE is getting a permanent desk. Because if some do, then others will be prevented from meeting the 2 days/ week measure.

Not really, most wfh will only want to be in once a week or twice a month. That works in with ur maths.

average_runner

Allinall wrote: »

They also cannot arbitrarily change your working conditions without your express agreement.

They can and offer you redundancy as a way out.
Same way a company can change office location

Padre_Pio

Deleted User wrote: »

But then it becomes 2nd nature and everyone slots in appropriately. This whole thread is much ado about nothing IMO

I've calmed down a bit since I started this thread and as another poster said, you have to find the positives.
I think I need to take a look at my own job and see if I can apportion certain tasks to certain in-office days.

Thanks everyone for your feedback, its nice to get a variety of perspectives.

oisinog

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The WFH fans really seem to have difficulty with this.

And with math: if a company says "everyone must work in the office 2 days/week" and also cuts office space to 40% of current space, then NO ONE is getting a permanent desk. Because if some do, then others will be prevented from meeting the 2 days/ week measure.

It's the permenant in the office who have a difficulty with this. My office was hot desk before covid and it worked fine. If we needed to work together we went to the project area and used that space. I understand jobs which need technical equipment to carry out your job needing a permenant space. Anyone who needs a computer to do a job should be able to work from anywhere

ineedeuro

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The WFH fans really seem to have difficulty with this.

And with math: if a company says "everyone must work in the office 2 days/week" and also cuts office space to 40% of current space, then NO ONE is getting a permanent desk. Because if some do, then others will be prevented from meeting the 2 days/ week measure.

Holidays/sick leave etc. Any number of reasons why people are in & out of offices spaces.
As I said if you approach HR they will make it work. Job done.

ineedeuro

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I've calmed down a bit since I started this thread and as another poster said, you have to find the positives.
I think I need to take a look at my own job and see if I can apportion certain tasks to certain in-office days.

Thanks everyone for your feedback, its nice to get a variety of perspectives.

Just out of interest, have you discussed at all with your manager or HR?

irelandrover

ineedeuro wrote: »

Which company pays you to travel to their office? I have never heard of that in my life. Any jobs going?

As i said i don't live in Ireland. Its pretty normal here in the Netherlands. Loads of jobs going where i work.

ineedeuro

irelandrover wrote: »

As i said i don't live in Ireland. Its pretty normal here in the Netherlands. Loads of jobs going where i work.

Not really relevant then unless you want the OP to commute from Dublin to NL?

irelandrover

ineedeuro wrote: »

Not really relevant then unless you want the OP to commute from Dublin to NL?

I don't know the OP lives in Dublin. I have no idea where they live.

Genuine question here, my post mentioned that i don't live in Ireland. If it isn't relevant why did you even ask a question about it.

Mongfinder General

oisinog wrote: »

It's the permenant in the office who have a difficulty with this. My office was hot desk before covid and it worked fine. If we needed to work together we went to the project area and used that space. I understand jobs which need technical equipment to carry out your job needing a permenant space. Anyone who needs a computer to do a job should be able to work from anywhere

So if Johnny comes in on Monday and has his dick beaters all over the desk space, is Mary going to want to sit there on Tuesday? The risk to health and public health is too great. How can an employer provide a safe work place with hot desking?

893bet

Mongfinder General wrote: »

So if Johnny comes in on Monday and has his dick beaters all over the desk space, is Mary going to want to sit there on Tuesday? The risk to health and public health is too great. How can an employer provide a safe work place with hot desking?

Clutching at straws with this type of thing.

Hot desks typically have a clean desk policy. Desk is left empty when you leave.

Spray and wipes at each desk to allow clean down between users.

Mongfinder General

Mongfinder General wrote: »

So if Johnny comes in on Monday and has his dick beaters all over the desk space, is Mary going to want to sit there on Tuesday? The risk to health and public health is too great. How can an employer provide a safe work place with hot desking?

You write as though hotdesking is a new thing....

ineedeuro

Mongfinder General wrote: »

So if Johnny comes in on Monday and has his dick beaters all over the desk space, is Mary going to want to sit there on Tuesday? The risk to health and public health is too great. How can an employer provide a safe work place with hot desking?

Seriously
We have had hot desks since 2006 and no problem. First off people should have manners and leave the desk as they found it. If they don't then a quick discussion is had, if they persist then a complaint is lodged.
Plus in our office we have cleaners so every night all the desks are wiped down, that was the same prior to covid.

ineedeuro

Deleted User wrote: »

You write as though hotdesking is a new thing....

It is hilarious would you think hot desk and WFH was invented in the last 12 months.

jester77

Mongfinder General wrote: »

So if Johnny comes in on Monday and has his dick beaters all over the desk space, is Mary going to want to sit there on Tuesday? The risk to health and public health is too great. How can an employer provide a safe work place with hot desking?

Ah now, you come in Monday, put your laptop in the dock and work away and go home. The cleaning company will clean everything Monday night, and on Tuesday the next person will work there.

We hot desk and it's not an issue. Teams are assigned their own part of the building and the desks there are for that team. Before this was implemented, there was an external company that came into our office over a a number of months and monitored how everyone worked. It was very surprising the low usage desks were getting overall, when vacation, sick days, conferences, meetings, working from home, etc was taken into account.

There are also dedicated areas for clients/contractors/etc so if your area somehow was full you can sit there.

ineedeuro

jester77 wrote: »

Ah now, you come in Monday, put your laptop in the dock and work away and go home. The cleaning company will clean everything Monday night, and on Tuesday the next person will work there.

We hot desk and it's not an issue. Teams are assigned their own part of the building and the desks there are for that team. Before this was implemented, there was an external company that came into our office over a a number of months and monitored how everyone worked. It was very surprising the low usage desks were getting overall, when vacation, sick days, conferences, meetings, working from home, etc was taken into account.

There are also dedicated areas for clients/contractors/etc so if your area somehow was full you can sit there.

A “drop in” area. We have one in case you just want to stop by office for 1-2 hours and not take up a desk for the day

Bass Reeves

Mongfinder General wrote: »

So if Johnny comes in on Monday and has his dick beaters all over the desk space, is Mary going to want to sit there on Tuesday? The risk to health and public health is too great. How can an employer provide a safe work place with hot desking?

In larger companies a cleaner can come in for 2-3 hours after working hours or early the following morning to clean down work stations. They be in to do office cleaning anyway. Net costs would be sub 100/ day. If you cut you office space in half your cleaning bill will still be smaller.

As well if staff are using labtops there will be less leads and screens in places as well as less PC's consoles to clean.

It the same as most canteens/ tearooms you clean your table and put any Delph you use in the dishwasher.

Look at the solution not at the problems.

In Chinese danger and opportunity are the same word

Christ, hotdesking has been around for years now...

floorpie

Can people stop pointing out that hot-desks have been around pre-pandemic. Everybody knows this.

This thread is NOT about the common practice of having some portion of hot-desks available in offices, but is rather about:
1) the requirement that your permanent desk is now expected to be in your home
2) the obvious implication that employers will now not need to provide you a permanent space, AND, outside of your mandatory days, a hot-desk

Christ, hotdesking has been around for years now...

:pac:

floorpie

:mad:

floorpie

floorpie wrote: »

:mad:

I'm just kidding.

floorpie

floorpie wrote: »

:mad:

But it’s an undeniable truth that it’s been around for many years. And the implication of hotdesking anywhere and everywhere is that your permanent desk (ie. the desk to which you are guaranteed access all the time) is your home. That is Spock level logic. Your company worded it poorly but I don’t think it is an attempt for force WFH. Even when the hotdesking is perfectly balanced and fair, if everyone unexpectedly turns up to work then there are not enough desks

Doesn’t mean that there won’t be a desk for you in the office on the days that you arrange for there to be as the above scenario is unlikely (given holidays, offsite work, people WFH x days a week etc).

floorpie

floorpie wrote: »

Can people stop pointing out that hot-desks have been around pre-pandemic. Everybody knows this.

This thread is NOT about the common practice of having some portion of hot-desks available in offices, but is rather about:
1) the requirement that your permanent desk is now expected to be in your home
2) the obvious implication that employers will now not need to provide you a permanent space, AND, outside of your mandatory days, a hot-desk

Those things are the definition of the ‘common practice’ of hotdesking

jakiah

floorpie wrote: »

Can people stop pointing out that hot-desks have been around pre-pandemic. Everybody knows this.

This thread is NOT about the common practice of having some portion of hot-desks available in offices, but is rather about:
1) the requirement that your permanent desk is now expected to be in your home
2) the obvious implication that employers will now not need to provide you a permanent space, AND, outside of your mandatory days, a hot-desk

If you require a permanent desk in the office then you are not a hotdesker. Workplaces cater to both people permanently in the office and hotdeskers now and have done for years. None of this is new. It is not an either-or scenario, there is a mix of requirements for different people.

Mrs OBumble

jakiah wrote: »

If you require a permanent desk in the office then you are not a hotdesker. Workplaces cater to both people permanently in the office and hotdeskers now and have done for years. None of this is new. It is not an either-or scenario, there is a mix of requirements for different people.

This thread was started by someone who was told that he had to provide a permanent desk in his/her home, ie that his/her workplace was no longer providing for both types of people.

ineedeuro

floorpie wrote: »

Can people stop pointing out that hot-desks have been around pre-pandemic. Everybody knows this.

This thread is NOT about the common practice of having some portion of hot-desks available in offices, but is rather about:
1) the requirement that your permanent desk is now expected to be in your home
2) the obvious implication that employers will now not need to provide you a permanent space, AND, outside of your mandatory days, a hot-desk

Based on some of the comments on the thread it is clear the idea of a hot desk seems alien to a few people.

As I have said already if you want a desk then go to manager/HR. No idea why this is so difficult to comprehend. The thing is if you ask for a static desk then you will need to go into the office everyday of the week.

If you want to work from home the odd day then you are a hot desk person.
It can't be a either/or

ineedeuro

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This thread was started by someone who was told that he had to provide a permanent desk in his/her home, ie that his/her workplace was no longer providing for both types of people.

First post says everyone is hot desk
Then quickly this is confirmed as a quarter of the company will have permanent desks

So if a quarter of the company has permanent desk then just request one. Job done.

jakiah

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This thread was started by someone who was told that he had to provide a permanent desk in his/her home, ie that his/her workplace was no longer providing for both types of people.

Well I guess that person will be looking for a new role so. If employers dont want to cater for people who want to work from the office only they will lose people, the same as they will lose people if they refuse to cater for people who want to work from home/on the road.


Luckily, this is already a solved problem in lots and lots of places.

Mrs OBumble

ineedeuro wrote: »

Based on some of the comments on the thread it is clear the idea of a hot desk seems alien to a few people.

As I have said already if you want a desk then go to manager/HR. No idea why this is so difficult to comprehend. The thing is if you ask for a static desk then you will need to go into the office everyday of the week.

It's very well understood.

What many don't understand is the mathematical consequences of shrinking available desks by 60% and mandating 2 days per week in the office for everyone.

If a company does that, then no amount of talking to your manager, HR or even the cleaner will get you a permanent desk.

jakiah

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's very well understood.

What many don't understand is the mathematical consequences of shrinking available desks by 60% and mandating 2 days per week in the office for everyone.

If a company does that, then no amount of talking to your manager, HR or even the cleaner will get you a permanent desk.

The solution is changing the 60% number to what suits a particular company. Jesus Christ. How some of you get through a working week is beyond me.

ineedeuro

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's very well understood.

What many don't understand is the mathematical consequences of shrinking available desks by 60% and mandating 2 days per week in the office for everyone.

If a company does that, then no amount of talking to your manager, HR or even the cleaner will get you a permanent desk.

That's not true. If I wanted a permanent desk tomorrow morning in my office I could get one. Any office that offers a mix will more than be flexible if an employee wants it, why wouldn't they? who cares if 59% versus 60% are hot desk? a desk will make no difference and I bet if you offered to the people with permanent desks they will grab the chance to work from home

What you will find is someone will want a permanent desk but they will also want to work from home which doesn't make sense. This is when it becomes an issue but at that stage to problem is with the employee and not the company.

oisinog

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's very well understood.

What many don't understand is the mathematical consequences of shrinking available desks by 60% and mandating 2 days per week in the office for everyone.

If a company does that, then no amount of talking to your manager, HR or even the cleaner will get you a permanent desk.

Forgive me if I am incorrect here but from the tone of your posts in other threads you work in HR.

I have never been in an office that is at 100% capacity. A number of reason for this is Leave, Part time, sickness outside meetings.

My office pre pandemic moved down to 50% the capacity that we previous had and still we available desks.

My undersatnding of the op wa sthat if they wanted a permenat desk it was at home, if they come into the office they have no set desk there was no limit of how often or little tehy had to be in the office.