Conspiracy Theorists

Dohnjoe

fvp4 wrote: »

And I am not one. In fact I only post known conspiracies, ( to an amusing response at the start of the thread.)

Is Biden a conspiracy theorist?

I am sure you are aware, but when people refer to "conspiracy theorists" they generally aren't referring to people who read the news every day about the conspiracies and collusion that happen on a daily basis

It's typically a term associated with people with extremely far-fetched beliefs, e.g. 9/11 truthers, Chemtrail believers, etc, or individuals with a highly paranoid style of thinking

banie01

banie01 wrote: »

The other important thing to note here is that despite the claim that 3 Wuhan Virology Institute staff members were hospitalised in Nov.

There is zero evidence that any of them are patient 0 and there is evidence from a review of samples taken in Italy that Covid was circulating there as early as Sept 2019.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300891620974755

The Lab outbreak thesis as it stands, presents no evidence to support any Wuhan infection earlier than November.
For the Lab thesis to be credible?
An evidentiary link to the lab and Italy in Sept, or even earlier infection in Wuhan needs to be shown.

I think that Wuhan is the source of the outbreak, be it zoonotic or man-made
The early spread in Italy has in other research been attributed to high levels of travel between Italy and Wuhan related to the garment trade.

A fair thesis, could IMO be that initial outbreak in Wuhan seeded northern Italy quite early before the outbreak proper broke in Wuhan and subsequently in Italy, Austria and other European locations before exploding into full pandemic.

The lab thesis, needs to present evidence of earlier infection than November to vitiate the Italian September antibody detections.

This could do with its own thread but I thought the Italian hypothesis was totally debunked?

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This could do with its own thread but I thought the Italian hypothesis was totally debunked?

It has its own thread, over in Conspiracy Forum.

The antibody findings presented in the paper posted confirm the Sept findings of C19 antibodies and if there is a debunking of that?
There may well be, I've not seen it as yet.
The thesis isn't that Italy is the source, rather that circulation was established well before the outbreak was noted.

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I am sure you are aware, but when people refer to "conspiracy theorists" they generally aren't referring to people who read the news every day about the conspiracies and collusion that happen on a daily basis

It's typically a term associated with people with extremely far-fetched beliefs, e.g. 9/11 truthers, Chemtrail believers, etc

That’s a definition that has formed over time, yes. And yet it’s not really a full definition. If we assume that all theories of conspiracy are false, then actual conspiracies can happen without any fear of detection, because we will always not believe the person who discovers a conspiracy.

dxhound2005

The Spanish Flu, Bubonic Plague / The Black Death, Ebola, HIV and many more crossed from the animal kingdom. With the pressure being put on nature by human activity, the current disease was long predicted. And further such events are bound to happen.

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The Spanish Flu, Bubonic Plague / The Black Death, Ebola, HIV and many more crossed from the animal kingdom. With the pressure being put on nature by human activity, the current disease was long predicted. And further such events are bound to happen.

Smallpox, tuberculosis, the common cold, the list goes on.

But I've encountered conspiritards who seem to be unaware or wilfully ignorant of nature's ability to create viruses.

dxhound2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Smallpox, tuberculosis, the common cold, the list goes on.

But I've encountered conspiritards who seem to be unaware or wilfully ignorant of nature's ability to create viruses.[/QUOTE

There were riots in the past when the conspiracy theorists of the time turned the populace against smallpox vaccination. They have no regard for the damage they do to people.

Dohnjoe

fvp4 wrote: »

That’s a definition that has formed over time, yes. And yet it’s not really a full definition. If we assume that all theories of conspiracy are false, then actual conspiracies can happen without any fear of detection, because we will always not believe the person who discovers a conspiracy.

If you want to be really pedantic and semantic then, then I am a conspiracy theorist, because I believe 9/11 was a conspiracy. A conspiracy by the hijackers and their leadership.

We all know what "conspiracy theorist" really means in the general sense.

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That’s a definition that has formed over time, yes. And yet it’s not really a full definition. If we assume that all theories of conspiracy are false, then actual conspiracies can happen without any fear of detection, because we will always not believe the person who discovers a conspiracy.

I don't agree.
It's more a matter of a certain group of conspiracy theorist becoming cult like in their behaviour and their dogmatic attachment to beliefs that are disproven.

Conspiracies happen. Whether planned as such from the outset, or as a means of covering one's arse in the case of a fúck up.

The issue I have, is dogmatic CT'ers(of the infowars/David Icke/Illuminati bent).
Presentation of a well crafted and compelling "blame the man" story is all well and good.
But!
Present evidence in support of the thesis.
Don't rely on poor knowledge or understanding of the processes, the science or the chestnut of coincidence.

A theory may well be the idea that leads to a conspiracy being exposed.
But, without evidence of the conspiracy it's just a theory and one of the hobby horses of CT is unfortunately the absence of evidence.
Which doesn't really help credibility when trying to build support.

There is a poster who was told not to post on this thread not so long ago who is on at least his 4th account.
Read over the CT forum and you will quickly find who I mean.
As an example, on the pentagon thread.
That poster told a professional pilot that he didn't know what he was talking about regarding headings, magnetic offsets and reciprocals.
The instant dismissal of expert knowledge as it just didn't fit their narrative.
Later in the thread the same poster completely reversed their position.
As well as claiming no plane hit, then it was an A3 and not an Airliner.

It's a descent into some kind of secret knowledge that reinforces a notion of uniqueness and special that is harmful and isolating.

I'm not an expert on many things, there are some I am.
Some that I have academic and professional experience in and even then?
Questions and contradictions based on that experience are dismissed with zero rebuttal other than "nope".

Actually, now I think of it, same poster spent years banging on about silent nanothermite explosives!
I mean FFS!

banie01

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If you want to be really pedantic and semantic then, then I am a conspiracy theorist, because I believe 9/11 was a conspiracy. A conspiracy by the hijackers and their leadership.

We all know what "conspiracy theorist" really means in the general sense.

Ditto

On both counts too :eek:

EmmetSpiceland

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Catholic Church abuse happened, that was a conspiracy. Therefore, JFK junior is alive and working with Trump to dismantle a celebrity network of vampires who drink children's blood.

It's just that simple.

I’m not sure conspiracy is the right term for the church, and state, abuse that went on. I mean, yes there was moving priests around and getting people to keep quiet but it’s not like they were secretive about it.

Kids were abused in front of whole classrooms, everyone seemed to know a family member or friend who was being abused, whether it was physical or sexual.

It’s like the scales suddenly fell from the eyes of the nation in 1994 and everyone suddenly said this is wrong and can’t go on.

I find it a bit baffling when members of the older generation express shock when some new, historic, abuse is uncovered. I’m more shocked when you hear of a school where there wasn’t a well known abuser going unchallenged for decades.

silliussoddius

Deleted User wrote: »

Smallpox, tuberculosis, the common cold, the list goes on.

But I've encountered conspiritards who seem to be unaware or wilfully ignorant of nature's ability to create viruses.

I think Herpes and Syphilis may also have passed from animals. In his book Guns, Germs and Steel, Jared Diamond goes into this. As Europeans/Eurasians had similar livestock and the diseases passed to them they developed immunity. In the Americas they didn't have the same kind of livestock and had no immunity which ended up with disastrous results. Of course the tinfoilers try to reduce zoonosis to someone eating a bat.

banie01

banie01 wrote: »

It has its own thread, over in Conspiracy Forum.

The antibody findings presented in the paper posted confirm the Sept findings of C19 antibodies and if there is a debunking of that?
There may well be, I've not seen it as yet.
The thesis isn't that Italy is the source, rather that circulation was established well before the outbreak was noted.

It’s a conspiracy now to question any of your posts? Are you the world source of truth?

The exponential nature of this virus would have seen it spread through Europe much faster than it did had it originated in Italy. Unless that strain was much less virulent.

EmmetSpiceland

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I’m not sure conspiracy is the right term for the church, and state, abuse that went on. I mean, yes there was moving priests around and getting people to keep quiet but it’s not like they were secretive about it.

Kids were abused in front of whole classrooms, everyone seemed to know a family member or friend who was being abused, whether it was physical or sexual.

It’s like the scales suddenly fell from the eyes of the nation in 1994 and everyone suddenly said this is wrong and can’t go on.

I find it a bit baffling when members of the older generation express shock when some new, historic, abuse is uncovered. I’m more shocked when you hear of a school where there wasn’t a well known abuser going unchallenged for decades.

As I said my mother was shocked. To the extent that she’s not really Catholic anymore. And she lived through this era. And of course it was largely kept secret. Or not believed.

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If you want to be really pedantic and semantic then, then I am a conspiracy theorist, because I believe 9/11 was a conspiracy. A conspiracy by the hijackers and their leadership.

We all know what "conspiracy theorist" really means in the general sense.

You have a circular augment here, and an unfalsifiable argument. If a conspiracy theory is proven correct then it’s not a conspiracy theory anymore, but a fact.

I too, love pedantry and semantics. It makes for really thrilling conversation.

Unicorn Milk Latte

Looking at conspiracies and misinformation: there are the people who create it, and an entirely different group who consume and spread it.


I agree that many of the people who create the conspiracy theories are malicious, and are trying to propagate a far right agenda.



But there are also many, many others, that create misinformation that is essentially harmless. Just for the fun of it.


Imagine the person who, early during Covid, created the 'information' that when you can hold your breath for 10 seconds, you don't have Covid.
So he/she manipulated thousands of idiots into holding their breath for 10 secs, repeatedly, because they thought they can diagnose Covid that way. This is undeniably funny.


Or creating the conspiracy theory that Covid was created by 5G. No real harm done, but the thought that you can find people stupid enough to believe it and repeat it - hilarious.


You have to admire the creativity and mischief of coming up with nonsense like that, and finding the right way to feed it to the right people.

Pinch Flat

I've a few mates who've gone full conspiracy theorist. They'd traditionally have been anti government and would have been vocal on the water charge protests. Also I notice a lot on various spectrums of racist / xenophobia. So lots of stuff about foreigners robbing our jobs / houses, direct provision, invasions etc.

They'd follow solely right wing social media. Gript would feature a lot. Also posting stuff from the EDL when it comes to foreigners. Quotes from the daily mail. Ireland should leave the EU etc.

Conspiracy theorists never disagree with each other. Misimformarion is taken on board unfiltered - one recent example was when one mate posted an anti lockdown protest photo in London a few weeks back. The photo was in fact from brexit marches a few years previous (quick Google image search revealed), but when presented with this evidence they stick to their guns. The goal posts continually change in debates because they're not dealing in full facts. They question everything in their own mind. Formal education is downplayed. if you went to University you're considered passive and easily manipulated. Big pharma is bad. $cience is all about money.

I find that the impact on metal health over the past 14 months has increased the frequency and ridiculousness of conspiracy information. The theories are getting more and more whacky. I guess when they start posting stuff about adernochrome and making claims that pizza gate was legitimate you know they've gone too far down the rabbit hole.

Pinch Flat

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I've a few mates who've gone full conspiracy theorist. They'd traditionally have been anti government and would have been vocal on the water charge protests. Also I notice a lot on various spectrums of racist / xenophobia. So lots of stuff about foreigners robbing our jobs / houses, direct provision, invasions etc.

The anti-Government thing is so weird, as on the other hand they expect that the State should automatically provide them with a house in a desirable location built solely by a State building agency.

The pirate flag thing on Twitter is usually a good sign these days. Paddy Cosgrave has become almost like a Messiah to them.

Weird stuff. You'd wonder if this internet thing is becoming a bad idea.

YFlyer

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I've a few mates who've gone full conspiracy theorist. They'd traditionally have been anti government and would have been vocal on the water charge protests. Also I notice a lot on various spectrums of racist / xenophobia. So lots of stuff about foreigners robbing our jobs / houses, direct provision, invasions etc.

They'd follow solely right wing social media. Gript would feature a lot. Also posting stuff from the EDL when it comes to foreigners. Quotes from the daily mail. Ireland should leave the EU etc.

Conspiracy theorists never disagree with each other. Misimformarion is taken on board unfiltered - one recent example was when one mate posted an anti lockdown protest photo in London a few weeks back. The photo was in fact from brexit marches a few years previous (quick Google image search revealed), but when presented with this evidence they stick to their guns. The goal posts continually change in debates because they're not dealing in full facts. They question everything in their own mind. Formal education is downplayed. if you went to University you're considered passive and easily manipulated. Big pharma is bad. $cience is all about money.

I find that the impact on metal health over the past 14 months has increased the frequency and ridiculousness of conspiracy information. The theories are getting more and more whacky. I guess when they start posting stuff about adernochrome and making claims that pizza gate was legitimate you know they've gone too far down the rabbit hole.

Whacky indeed. Sad to see.

Pinch Flat

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I've a few mates who've gone full conspiracy theorist. They'd traditionally have been anti government and would have been vocal on the water charge protests. Also I notice a lot on various spectrums of racist / xenophobia. So lots of stuff about foreigners robbing our jobs / houses, direct provision, invasions etc.

They'd follow solely right wing social media. Gript would feature a lot. Also posting stuff from the EDL when it comes to foreigners. Quotes from the daily mail. Ireland should leave the EU etc.

Conspiracy theorists never disagree with each other. Misimformarion is taken on board unfiltered - one recent example was when one mate posted an anti lockdown protest photo in London a few weeks back. The photo was in fact from brexit marches a few years previous (quick Google image search revealed), but when presented with this evidence they stick to their guns. The goal posts continually change in debates because they're not dealing in full facts. They question everything in their own mind. Formal education is downplayed. if you went to University you're considered passive and easily manipulated. Big pharma is bad. $cience is all about money.

I find that the impact on metal health over the past 14 months has increased the frequency and ridiculousness of conspiracy information. The theories are getting more and more whacky. I guess when they start posting stuff about adernochrome and making claims that pizza gate was legitimate you know they've gone too far down the rabbit hole.

I've an almost identical experience to you. I had to distance myself from one friend because it was too much.

The point about formal education is so true. They think they're experts in every field, economics, physics, geology, you name it.

It's a mental illness.

MyLove4Satan

Back in the 80s I live in the US and was involved in the underground music scene. Conspiracy was pretty much a common talking point for us. Stuff like JFk, HARRP, the rich US families involvement with the Nazis, Operation Paperclip. No one thought you were a nut for being into that stuff back then but then something changed.

In the late 1990s Christian Bible Belt groups became obsessed with all this stuff as it validated their Rapture/Endtimes psychosis and they ruined the enjoyment of it. From that point on it ended up in crazy things like Flat Earth and so on. You can be interested and even believe in some conspiracy theories without being a paranoid nut.

The thing is I still look into conspiracy and make no apology for this. Because sometimes it turns out to be partially or mostly true. I can recall the Irish Times no less, claiming that the Bilderbergs were a conspiracy while Irish politicians were attending meeting. Also it has come full circle in that people who want to shut down a debate on something they do not like invoke the 'conspiracy theory' mantra themselves.

dxhound2005

MyLove4Satan wrote: »

Back in the 80s I live in the US and was involved in the underground music scene. Conspiracy was pretty much a common talking point for us. Stuff like JFk, HARRP, the rich US families involvement with the Nazis, Operation Paperclip. No one thought you were a nut for being into that stuff back then but then something changed.

It depends on what you mean by "being into". What did you believe about JFK and HAARP? Do you still believe the same things now?

MyLove4Satan

MyLove4Satan wrote: »

Back in the 80s I live in the US and was involved in the underground music scene. Conspiracy was pretty much a common talking point for us. Stuff like JFk, HARRP, the rich US families involvement with the Nazis, Operation Paperclip. No one thought you were a nut for being into that stuff back then but then something changed.

In the late 1990s Christian Bible Belt groups became obsessed with all this stuff as it validated their Rapture/Endtimes psychosis and they ruined the enjoyment of it. From that point on it ended up in crazy things like Flat Earth and so on. You can be interested and even believe in some conspiracy theories without being a paranoid nut.

The thing is I still look into conspiracy and make no apology for this. Because sometimes it turns out to be partially or mostly true. I can recall the Irish Times no less, claiming that the Bilderbergs were a conspiracy while Irish politicians were attending meeting. Also it has come full circle in that people who want to shut down a debate on something they do not like invoke the 'conspiracy theory' mantra themselves.

It depends on what you believe, whether your thoughts stray into the delusional. Using the examples above, do you believe you know more about science, economics, etc than those who have many years of formal education and work experience in those fields?

If the answer is no, and you're just into the JFK conspiracy because it's interesting then cool. I don't see anything wrong with that. But the vast majority of conspiracy theorists I encounter are just impossible to deal with, they are impervious to reason and logic.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

But the vast majority of conspiracy theorists I encounter are just impossible to deal with, they are impervious to reason and logic.

Because they didn't reason themselves into their position

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Historians, scholars, experts, researchers and interested people question and debate aspects of the events like the Holocaust all the time

That is completely and utterly different from people who "question" it in order to diminish or downplay the number of a certain race or nationality killed. They disguise their denial with "questions". Their agenda is to pour doubt and uncertainty on the event. They are usual anti-semites, contrarians, or whatever. It's common enough on conspiracy theory forums.

Would you "question" the number of Iraqis killed from 2003 to now?


The American/UK coalition insist that not only do they not "do body counts" but that they insist that only 100,000 Iraqis were killed in nearly 20 years when a more accurate number from those who DO do body counts put the figure at over 1.5 million.


So who should we question?



How many people were killed during the Rwanda massacre?
How many people were killed in Cambodia/Kampuchea?
How many people were killed by The Japanese in China from 1927 onwards?
How many people were killed by Josef Stalin?
How many people were killed during the Mau Mau rebellion?
How many people were killed in the Armenian genocide?
How many people were killed in Laos and Vietnam?
How many people were killed dating from Plymouth Rock to Wounded Knee?




Who knows?



You see, the narrative is that XYZ numbers of people were killed....and those are the numbers, and if you question them then you are a thorn. A pain in the ass.....a conspiracy theorist.




You pretend that someone asking a question is merely a tactic for undermining or even furthering an agenda. I would disagree.



Right now we have an episode of a plane forced down in Belarus. It has nothing to do with Russia. But what we have is Western governments screeching that Putin must pay for this act conducted by another country.


Now that....is a complete conspiracy. We have the US and the UK coming out and saying that this episode is a crime and a scandal.

MyLove4Satan

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It depends on what you mean by "being into". What did you believe about JFK and HAARP? Do you still believe the same things now?

Well HARRP is real. So yeah. I don't know what it is used for other than submarine comm systems.

The JFK thing...I go back and forth on Oswald as a lone nut and the Mafia settling scores.

MyLove4Satan

Deleted User wrote: »

Using the examples above, do you believe you know more about science, economics, etc than those who have many years of formal education and work experience in those fields?

No. But I am still going to be skeptical about orthodoxy and the zeitgeist now and again.

Deleted User wrote: »

If the answer is no, and you're just into the JFK conspiracy because it's interesting then cool. I don't see anything wrong with that. But the vast majority of conspiracy theorists I encounter are just impossible to deal with, they are impervious to reason and logic.

I would say that is the majority and obviously the internet can make any nonsense seem real to the weak minded. There are some of us who are looking at this stuff - casually for the most part - and can find it very interesting. For example, when I first found out about Operation Paperclip it was really interesting.

I suppose I am what you might call a Conspiracy Hobbyist.

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s a conspiracy now to question any of your posts? Are you the world source of truth?

The exponential nature of this virus would have seen it spread through Europe much faster than it did had it originated in Italy. Unless that strain was much less virulent.

I don't know if you have comprehension issues or just a tendency to histrionics?
But let's try and clear it up for you.

In reply to my post regarding Covid 19 antibodies being found in Italy from Sept 19, you said.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This could do with its own thread but I thought the Italian hypothesis was totally debunked?

To which I replied:

banie01 wrote: »

It has its own thread, over in Conspiracy Forum.

The antibody findings presented in the paper posted confirm the Sept findings of C19 antibodies and if there is a debunking of that?
There may well be, I've not seen it as yet.
The thesis isn't that Italy is the source, rather that circulation was established well before the outbreak was noted.

Now to break that down a little further for you.
I'm not claiming to be an arbiter of knowledge, you said it could do with a thread of its own.
I said there was one, perhaps I should have thrown you a link to it?
But for clarity's sake here you go https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058113728/1
It's discussed at length there.

Further you then claimed/asked that the Italian hypothesis was debunked.
I said, there may well be, but I haven't seen it.
A usual response there, would be for you to provide the debunk, a link or some detail on what you thought or why it had been debunked?

Further your notion that I'm assuming a position of authority, or as you call it my being a source of world truth?
Where did I do that?
You may want to re-read what I've written.
I didn't claim Italy was the source, so far as I know? No one has.
China and in particular Wuhan are certainly the source of the virus, my point is that the virus was circulating in Europe months before the November hospitalisation of the 3 Wuhan Virology institute staff.
I provided a paper that confirms community circulation of Covid-19 in Italy in Sept 2019.
That's all, no claim was made to Italy being the source, indeed in earlier posts I confirmed my belief that Wuhan is the source.
The claim I made and stand by is that circulation of the virus was in place far earlier than the November cases of the Wuhan Virology Lab trio.
Further to the Italian antibody detections, there is also confirmation of a French patient in December with Covid 19.
Prior to the Chinese notifying the WHO on Jan 4th.

ShatterAlan

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Would you "question" the number of Iraqis killed from 2003 to now?


The American/UK coalition insist that not only do they not "do body counts" but that they insist that only 100,000 Iraqis were killed in nearly 20 years when a more accurate number from those who DO do body counts put the figure at over 1.5 million.


So who should we question?



How many people were killed during the Rwanda massacre?
How many people were killed in Cambodia/Kampuchea?
How many people were killed by The Japanese in China from 1927 onwards?
How many people were killed by Josef Stalin?
How many people were killed during the Mau Mau rebellion?
How many people were killed in the Armenian genocide?
How many people were killed in Laos and Vietnam?
How many people were killed dating from Plymouth Rock to Wounded Knee?




Who knows?



You see, the narrative is that XYZ numbers of people were killed....and those are the numbers, and if you question them then you are a thorn. A pain in the ass.....a conspiracy theorist.




You pretend that someone asking a question is merely a tactic for undermining or even furthering an agenda. I would disagree.



Right now we have an episode of a plane forced down in Belarus. It has nothing to do with Russia. But what we have is Western governments screeching that Putin must pay for this act conducted by another country.


Now that....is a complete conspiracy. We have the US and the UK coming out and saying that this episode is a crime and a scandal.

banie01 wrote: »

I don't know if you have comprehension issues or just a tendency to histrionics?
But let's try and clear it up for you.

In reply to my post regarding Covid 19 antibodies being found in Italy from Sept 19, you said.


To which I replied:



Now to break that down a little further for you.
I'm not claiming to be an arbiter of knowledge, you said it could do with a thread of its own.
I said there was one, perhaps I should have thrown you a link to it?
But for clarity's sake here you go https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058113728/1
It's discussed at length there.

Further you then claimed/asked that the Italian hypothesis was debunked.
I said, there may well be, but I haven't seen it.
A usual response there, would be for you to provide the debunk, a link or some detail on what you thought or why it had been debunked?

Further your notion that I'm assuming a position of authority, or as you call it my being a source of world truth?
Where did I do that?
You may want to re-read what I've written.
I didn't claim Italy was the source, so far as I know? No one has.
China and in particular Wuhan are certainly the source of the virus, my point is that the virus was circulating in Europe months before the November hospitalisation of the 3 Wuhan Virology institute staff.
I provided a paper that confirms community circulation of Covid-19 in Italy in Sept 2019.
That's all, no claim was made to Italy being the source, indeed in earlier posts I confirmed my belief that Wuhan is the source.
The claim I made and stand by is that circulation of the virus was in place far earlier than the November cases of the Wuhan Virology Lab trio.
Further to the Italian antibody detections, there is also confirmation of a French patient in December with Covid 19.
Prior to the Chinese notifying the WHO on Jan 4th.

Away with the faeries.

RulesOfNature

Rmember when the Catholic Church diddling children was just a conspiracy?
Or what about Facebook spying on you?
Or when Alex Jones talked about a secret celebrity island where they raped children? (Epstein)

Some conspiracy theories are just stupid but what amazes me is that the darkest ‘theories’ somehow manage to be true.

YFlyer

Bring the analysis back. My argument is that conspiracy theorists tend to agree with each other. Echo chamber.

MyLove4Satan

Just to add, I know HUGE numbers of people who believe 9-11 was very dodgy - and do not subscribe to other conspiracies - but keep it to themselves. They won't bring it up. They are generally mainstream and regular folks. But you ask them about it and they will tell you they do not believe the official 9-11 story is the whole story.

I reckon a lot more people are open to conspiracy than is generally known. They just keep stum.

Unicorn Milk Latte

Had a look at the scientific study that suggests that Covid may have been present in Italy in 2019. Interesting.

The same scientific journal has published 'comments' on the study by other scientists. They suggest that the methodology used in this study may have been unreliable, and offer suggestions for further research and clarification.

banie01

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Had a look at the scientific study that suggests that Covid may have been present in Italy in 2019. Interesting.

The same scientific journal has published 'comments' on the study by other scientists. They suggest that the methodology used in this study may have been unreliable, and offer suggestions for further research and clarification.

That comment and in particular its author's contention that they feel the PCR results may have been lacking specificity and that Rheumatoid Factor may have had an adverse impact on the original study's PCR findings is both interesting and an avenue for further study.
I really do look forward to reading the study based on these comments.
Thanks for highlighting it, it's a very pertinent example of the way that information can be used, misused and by some even weaponised (Not that, that is at all what you are doing).
Rather that a study, and it's concurrent evidence aren't a full and final declaration and shouldn't be viewed as such.

The comment author's comment that the report provides a basis for important further research is one I wholeheartedly agree with.
The study size itself was a small cohort and a detailed comparison and review of the Apolone study versus the Cancer study could provide some telling insight.

dxhound2005

MyLove4Satan wrote: »

Well HARRP is real. So yeah. I don't know what it is used for other than submarine comm systems.

The JFK thing...I go back and forth on Oswald as a lone nut and the Mafia settling scores.

High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program HAARP.

Used for ionospheric research. Underwater submarine communications are only possible using Very Low Frequencies. High Frequency signals do not travel through water.

astrofool

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Would you "question" the number of Iraqis killed from 2003 to now?...

Sorry, but you're patently not "questioning the numbers". You're casting doubt on numbers to try and segue conversation to areas such as holocaust denial but trying to hide your real intent. If you presented your thesis from the beginning, then people might be more inclined to read and see your viewpoint, but you try and subvert little parts of a narrative and then use that to try and dismiss everything.

This is a classic trait among conspiracy theorists, they'll take one piece of evidence and try and subvert it to support their theory. "I can see my house from many miles away, ergo the earth must be flat".

MyLove4Satan

MyLove4Satan wrote: »

No. But I am still going to be skeptical about orthodoxy and the zeitgeist now and again.

Nothing wrong with that at all. Science wouldn't work if it didn't challenge it's own orthodoxy. That's called the peer review process.

randd1

Whenever I hear the terms "flat earther" or "conspiracy theorist", my initial reaction is that the person is a moron.

They might be nice as a person, but they're a moron. And no-one should ever take what a moron says seriously.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Would you "question" the number of Iraqis killed from 2003 to now?

I protested the Iraq war. We get it, you have a strong world view. That doesn't mean you need to engage in conspiracy style thinking in order to deny events that don't match that world view.

Dohnjoe

MyLove4Satan wrote: »

Well HARRP is real. So yeah. I don't know what it is used for other than submarine comm systems.

It's HAARP and you can get information on it in seconds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program

MyLove4Satan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's HAARP and you can get information on it in seconds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program

For decades I can assure you that mentioning HARRP was a sign of a person being a total tin foil hat loon. Yet these 'conspiracy theorists' were correct just like the were correct about:

MK Ultra
Operation Paperclip
Bilderbergs
Operation Northwoods
James Earl Ray's being framed
US Government adding poison to booze killing 10,000
Gulf of Tonkin false flag
Tuskeegee racial syphilis trials
Bohemian Grove
Cigarette Companies hid cancer risk for decades
United Fruit/CIA false revolutions
The lying Kuwait princess and the incubators


But apart from these and a few hundred others proven to be true, it is obvious that anyone who in anyway takes an interest in conspiracy theory is a insane moron because conspiracies never happen until the become fact on Wiki.

Carry on.

Dohnjoe

MyLove4Satan wrote: »

For decades I can assure you that mentioning HARRP was a sign of a person being a total tin foil hat loon.

Were they just casually chatting about the progress in testing the ionosphere for communications technology?

Or were they rabbiting on that HAARP was linked to conspiracy stuff?

I suspect it was the latter.

MK Ultra
Operation Paperclip
Bilderbergs
Operation Northwoods
James Earl Ray's being framed
US Government adding poison to booze killing 10,000
Gulf of Tonkin false flag
Tuskeegee racial syphilis trials
Bohemian Grove
Cigarette Companies hid cancer risk for decades
United Fruit/CIA false revolutions
The lying Kuwait princess and the incubators

Here we go again for the 10th time in this thread.

This is not information that was all uncovered by "conspiracy theorists". In most cases it was discovered or exposed by normal journalism or normal methods. Ironically modern conspiracy theorists commonly attack journalism in general (the "mainstream media") then bizarrely "take credit" for that stuff. And then use it as "evidence" for their other far-fetched conspiracies.

I've been following conspiracy theories for over a decade, and despite a broken clock being right twice a day, I can't recall a single thing that was genuinely uncovered by conspiracy theorists. Or just open a newspaper, there are conspiracies and collusion happening all the time, none of which are being exposed by online "conspiracy theorists".

dxhound2005

MyLove4Satan wrote: »

For decades I can assure you that mentioning HARRP was a sign of a person being a total tin foil hat loon. Yet these 'conspiracy theorists' were correct just like the were correct about:

That can't be true. Plenty of people would have occasion to talk about and write about HAARP without attaching any conspiracy theory to the discussion. And if you think the HAARP conspiracy theorists were proved correct, their counterparts in the Flat Earth discussion have also been proved correct.

Why do you keep calling it HARRP? It's HAARP.

Unicorn Milk Latte

banie01 wrote: »

Rather that a study, and it's concurrent evidence aren't a full and final declaration and shouldn't be viewed as such.

The comment author's comment that the report provides a basis for important further research is one I wholeheartedly agree with.

Exactly. Science has a 'self healing' effect. Part of the scientific process is to make assumptions, create a hypothesis (like string theory), and then start gathering data to find out if the assumptions were correct.



And the way (most) scientists operate is entirely different to the way, say, politicians operate:

Last year, the lab group of the virologist who created the first Covid PCR test released a pre print of a study about Covid in children. They deliberately used relatively coarse statistical methods. In the peer review process, some statisticians (not virologists) had some strong criticism of the statistical methods. The reaction of the virology team was to convince the statistician with the strongest points to join their team, so the study could be improved.

dxhound2005

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Exactly. Science has a 'self healing' effect. Part of the scientific process is to make assumptions, create a hypothesis (like string theory), and then start gathering data to find out if the assumptions were correct.

That can lead to Confirmation Bias. The new Astronomer Royal for Scotland was on the radio this morning. A paper she presented some years ago about Dark Matter drew a hostile reaction, because it was at odds with the thinking of the time.

She decided to do more research with a view to proving she was correct. But realised this was the wrong approach, and instead invited others to do "blind" research, to see what conclusions would emerge. Apparently there is much controversy among scientists about the nature of Dark Matter which takes up 27% of the universe, but nobody knows exactly what it is.

Current thinking is that known matter such as stars makes up 5%. The remaining 68% is speculated to be Dark Energy.

Unicorn Milk Latte

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That can lead to Confirmation Bias..

Of course.
But confirmation bias is well researched, and something that most scientists are well aware of. It's part of the equation.


And the whole peer review process is designed so that well informed, qualified peers, who may even be seen as 'competitors', evaluate pre prints of studies before they are released.

Unicorn Milk Latte

I'm afraid I have to qualify my earlier post about the humour in misinformation and conspiracies:


You may have seen the 'Magnetic Vaccine' conspiracy thread.


The premise is that Covid vaccines make your arm magnetic.

Complete with a video that shows multiple normal looking people who pretend to hold a magnet to their arms where they were vaccinated, which then sticks.


At first glance - brilliant. Creating that little voice of doubt, that then pranks people into actually holding a magnet to their arm, which then falls to the ground. I can definitely see the humour in that.



But - the hosted video is just one click away from neonazi content featuring David Duke on the same video website.
It exploits people's fear, which is perfectly human and natural during a pandemic, for a political agenda.

sabat

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

It exploits people's fear, which is perfectly human and natural during a pandemic, for a political agenda.

We're not in a pandemic.

Dohnjoe

sabat wrote: »

We're not in a pandemic.

We are. It's your personal opinion that we aren't. It's your personal opinion that it's all a "scam" or "fraud"

People need to stop confusing opinions with facts.