Rogue roofer?

FriendlySpider · 25-05-2021 12:35pm #1

Woke up yesterday morning to banging on the roof, came outside and there were 4 lads on the adjoining house taking half the roof off. They had also decided to take some of our tiles of (3 rows over and for some reason all the tiles off over my elderly fathers room).

Seen a van heading off and stopped the driver to ask what was going on? In his distinctive accent he informed me that the next doors roof was leaking and they had to replace the whole back half, I asked why nobody asked us and why they were removing tiles from our roof. He denied we would be effected and by the time I walked back around they had put some back on.

Anyway the owners turned up 2 hours later ( an elderly woman who is renting the house), where I expressed my concern about who they had hired, what they were doing and did they realise they were talking the back roof off. She was had no idea who she had hired as the woman renting had found them online. The woman renting had said her room was leaking over the weekend and these lads came and whipped the whole roof off, claiming the wood was all rotted (which it wasn't, I seen it all dumped and) and was going to fall in at any point (a load of bull!!).

She called son to come and the lads fecked off for a bit, saying they had to get some replacement tiles. So they all left and it took to rain, part of our roof was exposed (as mentioned above), so I called the man and asked him to come back and make sure our side was covered as water would be getting in. He kept trying to tell me my side wasn't effected but when I said we have never had any issues with our roof and if it leaks in future I would be holding him responsible the mood changed. He told me I was being a awkward ****. I then asked if he had a company number and insurance, he said he didn't have to tell me f all. He said he would knock me door when he came back to have a word with me, I was really looking forward to 4 big lads with just me there. He had calmed down by the time they came back and he gave me some knock off flyer that had "all his details" on it, if you call three numbers and a few pictures that.

So as not to drag the story out any longer they put the roof back on, I didn't see any felt going back on but plenty of bags of broken tiles coming out. Can't even see any new tiles on it. He got the elderly woman come back at the end to sign a hefty cheque for them and fecked off. Now I'm worried about my own roof and I have no idea what to look out for? I don't even know where I would stand if our own roof did start to leak or was broken?

Victor · 25-05-2021 12:40pm

Solicitor and Garda.

3DataModem · 25-05-2021 12:46pm

First things first, get your roof sorted. You have to mitigate your own risk, failure to do so makes any insurance claim you make for leak damage likely to fail. You can't expect (or trust) the cowboys to fix it. Tell the guys fixing it to document and photograph the damage left by the last guys.

Then solicitor and garda, but don't expect much of an outcome.

FriendlySpider · 25-05-2021 12:49pm

Victor wrote: »

Solicitor and Garda.

I did called the guards yesterday before the lads returned and he just adviced me to get the regs of anything they were driving and to call them again if things got aggressive (there was 8 of them at one point).

I really hope that nothing is wrong, I'm just worried that there will be.

ED E · 25-05-2021 12:53pm

Victor wrote: »

Solicitor

Blood from a stone.

FriendlySpider · 25-05-2021 12:53pm

3DataModem wrote: »

First things first, get your roof sorted. You have to mitigate your own risk, failure to do so makes any insurance claim you make for leak damage likely to fail. You can't expect (or trust) the cowboys to fix it. Tell the guys fixing it to document and photograph the damage left by the last guys.

Then solicitor and garda, but don't expect much of an outcome.

Would I get someone out to access if any damage has been caused to our roof? I took pictures yesterday of them on the roof. If it did arise that our roof was damaged, would it be back on our neighbours as they got the work done? I'm only suggesting that as I doubt finding the lads that did the roof will amount to anything.

coylemj · 25-05-2021 12:59pm

Realistically, the only person the OP can sue is his neighbour, for employing a bunch of incompetents.

Because those 'roofers' are probably operating out a van so they have no assets and almost certainly have no professional liability insurance. So there is nothing or nobody worth suiing on their side. Based on the previous post, the OP appears to recognise this.

I wouldn't go near the Gardai, they can probably do nothing. There are some countries (Australia is one) where people can be charged for taking on paid work for which they have little or no competence but I don't believe it's illegal to do so in Ireland.

You can talk about obtaining money under false pretences but outside of regulated professions like phsiotherapy, who decides who is and is not competent to fix a roof?

the_pen_turner · 25-05-2021 1:04pm

Not really a consumer issue. Your not a customer. Its vandalism or damage to property and trespass.

Your probably wasting your time chasing them
These kind of cowboys dont have insurance and arnt official and wont stand over anything.

Not sure on the best direction to go other than get a proper roofer to make sure it's ok.

I would guess that you would have to go after next doors owner and they would go after the tenant who would then go after the cowboys.

punisher5112 · 25-05-2021 1:06pm

Get a real roofer out to look it over.

Casati · 25-05-2021 1:07pm

coylemj wrote: »

Realistically, the only person the OP can sue is his neighbour, for employing a bunch of incompetents.

Because those 'roofers' are probably operating out a van so they have no assets and almost certainly have no professional liability insurance. So there is nothing or nobody worth suiing on their side. Based on the previous post, the OP appears to recognise this.

I wouldn't go near the Gardai, they can probably do nothing. There are some countries (Australia is one) where people can be charged for taking on paid work for which they have little or no competence but I don't believe it's illegal to do so in Ireland.

You can talk about obtaining money under false pretences but outside of regulated professions like phsiotherapy, who decides who is and is not competent to fix a roof?

Agree completely. The contractor in question is not yours, you do not have any contract with them and so I can’t see how you could make any claim off them. I would get out a reputable company to review the work and make good anything that is needed - you may be lucky and all is well. The cost of this remedial work should be handed to the landlord of the neighbouring house.

Deeec · 25-05-2021 1:38pm

If I understand correctly your neighbour is renting the property. Why did she arrange someone to fix the roof and not ask the landlord to get it fixed. I imagine the landlord may not be pleased with a dodgy job done on their roof.

Also did she pay them or did the landlord pay them?

Cabaal · 25-05-2021 2:02pm

Deeec wrote: »

If I understand correctly your neighbour is renting the property. Why did she arrange someone to fix the roof and not ask the landlord to get it fixed. I imagine the landlord may not be pleased with a dodgy job done on their roof.

Yeah this is extremely odd and super dodgy

Victor · 25-05-2021 2:12pm

ED E wrote: »

Blood from a stone.

coylemj wrote: »

I wouldn't go near the Gardai, they can probably do nothing.

The roofers - Criminal Damage Act.

The neighbour & the landlord - Land And Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009.

Deeec wrote: »

If I understand correctly your neighbour is renting the property. Why did she arrange someone to fix the roof and not ask the landlord to get it fixed. I imagine the landlord may not be pleased with a dodgy job done on their roof.

Also did she pay them or did the landlord pay them?

I strongly suspect the landlord is being exploited, whether the tenant is in on the act or not.

Casati wrote: »

Agree completely. The contractor in question is not yours, you do not have any contract with them and so I can’t see how you could make any claim off them.

Criminal damage, negligence, trespass.

eastie17 · 25-05-2021 2:14pm

This is probably a stupid question, but I presume this is a terraced or adjoined house?

Atlantic Dawn · 25-05-2021 2:16pm

Your only hope here is compensation from your neighbour or whoever engaged those people, you have not a single chance of recovering €1 from those who did the damage.

FriendlySpider · 25-05-2021 2:42pm

Deeec wrote: »

If I understand correctly your neighbour is renting the property. Why did she arrange someone to fix the roof and not ask the landlord to get it fixed. I imagine the landlord may not be pleased with a dodgy job done on their roof.

Also did she pay them or did the landlord pay them?

The elderly woman is the owner and she is renting it to Indian woman and her child (I'm only mentioning her nationality as I believe she wouldn't be wise to these lads).

The woman renting found them online but the landlady/owner went ahead with after speaking on the phone and she paid them.

FriendlySpider · 25-05-2021 2:44pm

eastie17 wrote: »

This is probably a stupid question, but I presume this is a terraced or adjoined house?

Not a stupid question, I probably didn't say. It's a semi detached house.

FriendlySpider · 25-05-2021 2:46pm

Victor wrote: »

The roofers - Criminal Damage Act.

The neighbour & the landlord - Land And Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009.

I strongly suspect the landlord is being exploited, whether the tenant is in on the act or not.

Thanks for that, I'll keep a note of them.

I genuinely don't believe the tenant is in on the act (as I previously mentioned she is an Indian lady so I don't think she would be as wise to these lads as locals would be). But I find it hard to believe that the whole roof had to be replaced so I do think they exploited the landlord.

Deeec · 25-05-2021 2:49pm

FriendlySpider wrote: »

The elderly woman is the owner and she is renting it to Indian woman and her child (I'm only mentioning her nationality as I believe she wouldn't be wise to these lads).

The woman renting found them online but the landlady/owner went ahead with after speaking on the phone and she paid them.

Thank you for clarifying. Your first post made it sound like the elderly woman was the tenent.

FriendlySpider · 25-05-2021 2:49pm

Casati wrote: »

Agree completely. The contractor in question is not yours, you do not have any contract with them and so I can’t see how you could make any claim off them. I would get out a reputable company to review the work and make good anything that is needed - you may be lucky and all is well. The cost of this remedial work should be handed to the landlord of the neighbouring house.

Thank you. Fingers crossed nothing is wrong on our side and of course I hope the neighbours roof is all above board too. I will ask people I know to recommend a reputable local roofer, I'm very dubious about looking online after yesterday, ha!

coylemj · 25-05-2021 3:58pm

There's lots of ads popping up these days on Instagram and Facebook for people offering gutter cleaning and roof maintenance. They look very professional but they're using stock images of gutters and roofs and anyone could be behind them. One of the hooks they use is that they often mention local areas in their name so you think it's an established local business but do a bit of digigng and you'll find that they have no connection to the area. In many cases, you'll be hard pressed to find any address associated with their 'business'.

I don't want to risk the wrath of the boards lawyers so I'm not going to quote any samples but for anything to do with your roof, you need to be 110% certain that you're employing professionals with a track record and who have professional insurance.

coylemj · 25-05-2021 4:05pm

Victor wrote: »

The roofers - Criminal Damage Act.

The neighbour & the landlord - Land And Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009.

I strongly suspect the landlord is being exploited, whether the tenant is in on the act or not.

Criminal damage, negligence, trespass.

Unless someone dies as a result, the Gardai will not prosecute anyone for the 'crime' of incompetence.

You have to be a registered electrical contractor (RECI) to do certain electrical work and only a registered gas installer (RGI) can install and maintain gas appliances.

But anyone is free to call himself a roofer and make a complete balls of the job. And you will not get the Gardai to charge him with anything. You know well what they will say .... 'It's a civil matter'.

cruizer101 · 25-05-2021 4:15pm

Incompetence would be if they damaged they paying customers roof as they have permission to work on it.

However damaging the neighbours roof which they no permission to interfere with at all I would think is criminal damage.

Casati · 25-05-2021 4:23pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Incompetence would be if they damaged they paying customers roof as they have permission to work on it.

However damaging the neighbours roof which they no permission to interfere with at all I would think is criminal damage.

Can’t see DPP prosecuting for criminal damage in this case, and even if they did what benefit would that be to the OP? . The OP neighbour is responsible here imo.

coylemj · 25-05-2021 6:25pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Incompetence would be if they damaged they paying customers roof as they have permission to work on it.

However damaging the neighbours roof which they no permission to interfere with at all I would think is criminal damage.

Collateral damage.

In order to convict him of criminal damage, you would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he set out to maliciously damage the OP's roof.

His lawyer will point out that both houses were built at the same time, using the same roof tiles and that his client, while up on the roof, couldn't tell where one property ended and the next one started.

And he'll get off. Call it a fool's pardon but it would be next nigh impossible to get a conviction for criminal damage.

cruizer101 · 25-05-2021 8:07pm

Casati wrote: »

Can’t see DPP prosecuting for criminal damage in this case, and even if they did what benefit would that be to the OP? . The OP neighbour is responsible here imo.

I agree chances of a convication are slim to none but it should I still think it should be recorded.
I doubt this is the first time they have done this and at least if it was recorded in some way and eventually there was a number of instances of it recorded maybe something could be done.

Darc19 · 27-05-2021 7:06am

Gardai have a particular interest in this type of scam and would love to be informed.

This is not a group fixing a leak. This is an outright scam against an elderly person.

It can be prosecuted against and judges don't take kindly to these people.

Please contact the gardai