Running shot with a rifle

Bogwoppit

I got a call from a neighbour today, fox was eyeing up their chickens in the middle of the day.

Went over with the 10/22, got a clean chest shot with cci stingers at about 45m, was the only shot that presented itself due to briars along where the fox was.
I knew it was a good shot but the fox made a run side on to me for the middle of the field and I tried a couple of follow up shots while it was running, missed with both but luckily the fox dropped after about 30-40 metres.

Any tips for these running shots? I tried to aim for the nose but clearly saw the shots strike wet ground somewhere behind the fox.

Cass

Just curious, when you say somewhere behind the fox do you mean directly behind him, as in in line with his track, or further out from him?

I ask because at that range the bullet has a travel time of about a tenth of a second. Meaning from the moment the shot is fired to the moment of impact is quicker than you blinking.

For that reason, and based on where the splash of the shot was, my theory/opinion, would be a simple missed shot. Happens. I had the same problem with free hand shooting. I started of shooting like that with no scope, and from years of better and better scopes and rested shooting my free hand went to pot. Had to "unlearn" my rested shooting and get back to basics.

mud dog

Cant attach a youtube clip as im a new member but if you look on youtube under scott satterlee movers you find a grdat video on working of leads

Have a watch of scott running through a lesson on movers ! .its more suited to centre fire rifles then rimfire but the principle is the same ! Its down to time of flight of the bulllet to a know distance and if you know you can work out your lead ! And it works ! But it needs practice!

Cass

mud dog wrote: »

! Its down to time of flight of the bulllet to a know distance and if you know you can work out your lead ! And it works ! But it needs practice!

Cass wrote: »

I ask because at that range the bullet has a travel time of about a tenth of a second. Meaning from the moment the shot is fired to the moment of impact is quicker than you blinking. .

Done a little math on it, and i know you won't have time to do this on the spot, but its to give you an idea.

A fox can run at a top speed of what, 40 - 45 kmp/h? Take that as a given. 45kmp/h. That means about 10-11 metres per second.

That means in the 0.1 seconds its takes the bullet to travel 50mtrs the fox has covered a little over a metre. So the round lands behind him if you have the crosshair on his nose.

The point, as said above, is to illustrate that as fast as bullets are you need to give more lead than you'd think and this only gets more with distance. Over longer distances the bullet slows and the animal still covers the same ground so the lead can grow exponentially.

So if you were level you would have had to give about 2 foot lead in front of his nose to guarantee a chest shot.

Bogwoppit

To be honest it’s hard to say exactly where the shot landed but I think it was further out rather than behind. Maybe just a miss, scope was on 9x so I was swinging like you would with a shotgun and with both eyes open (hard to recall exactly as it happened so quick ).

It wasn’t running at top speed, a good gallop maybe, I’d guess at around 20-25kph. Based on what you’re saying Cass, my lead may have been about right.

Perhaps I’ll practice a few shots with 2 eyes open so I’m more comfortable with my aim point.

cookimonster

You need to power down on the scope, 9x is too much for running targets. Magnification for driven game is well below 3x and would typically be on a bottom scale of 1.5 - 2.5 , while 1x red dot / aim point style optic are a common choice as are traditional iron sights.The low power gives the hunter a wide field of view as well as a clearer picture when swinging the rifle, surprisingly enough even the x1 3MOA red dots will give the hunter a very useable sighting system to engage larger static targets out at 100 yards or more.

My problem with fast moving targets such as deer and boar was trying to get over the instinct to aim at the animal and I know that my misses were due to stopping the rifle. The funny thing is I also hunt with a shotgun and would have an average ability, so with a gun in my hands, it feels more natural to swing the gun but put a rifle there (even sxs with open sights) then I tend to want to aim.

Distance to and speed of the target play a role in the lead given, even with fast moving projectiles add in the time it takes for you to mentally decide to shoot, reaction time to squeeze / pull the trigger, lock time of the firearm and this all has an effect on POI. How many of us have taken a steady aim on a standing deer or fox, fired and hit only to discover the shot placement is not where you aimed for? A animal shifting its weight on its legs ( typical deer moving one leg forward) is enough to move your POI inches off your POA, so imagine how much further out of POA a bound or a stride of a fast moving animal will put you.

Bogwoppit

cookimonster wrote: »

You need to power down on the scope, 9x is too much for running targets.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I have a 3-9x on the rifle, most of the time it’s left on 3x but the fox was mooching between some brambles so I upped the power to make sure I had a clean shot. It definitely would have been easier on the 3x though.

The thought process was definitely to try swing it like the scattergun and follow through so I probably wasn’t far off the mark, not sure how you go about practising this shot though.

Still though, the fox dropped after no more than 50 metres so a good result and some (not all unfortunately) chickens saved.

yubabill

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I have a 3-9x on the rifle, most of the time it’s left on 3x but the fox was mooching between some brambles so I upped the power to make sure I had a clean shot. It definitely would have been easier on the 3x though.

The thought process was definitely to try swing it like the scattergun and follow through so I probably wasn’t far off the mark, not sure how you go about practising this shot though.

Still though, the fox dropped after no more than 50 metres so a good result and some (not all unfortunately) chickens saved.

It's so easy to stop the rifle.

Aiming at a moving target is not usual with the rifle, I used to find myself stopping it unconsciously.

Taught myself to hit moving targets with the rifle using a large fast-flowing river.

Mach Two

With iron sights or a glass sight of some sort.

yubabill

Always glass, usually turned down - anything from 3 to 6x normally. Have used 9x on occasion, but prefer 6x or less.

Started with going-away shots.

Coming towards you are the hardest.

JP22

Any running/moving shot with a rifle is a hard one, in reality it’s not the shot you want to take but sometimes it’s the only choice available.
Leading the target is what’s required, not easy at the best of times. Those who hunt regular or do clay pigeon shooting will have a greater advantage over pure rifle shooters.

As with all things in life, practice and more practice is required. In any situation where you think you’re going to encounter a runner/mover, then scope power needs to be turned way down. Next time the opportunity presents, think shotgun, shotgun "LEAD" and follow through. Whatever "lead" you think you need, you always want it a bit more.

Just my tuppence worth. Keep safe.

yubabill

My own thoughts on lead with a rifle are that you should try to keep your lead on the target, unless it's very small. But I mostly shoot at 100yds/metres or less. Even with a 22LR out to 75yds, you don't need a lot of lead unless it's a rabbit moving at top speed (good luck with hitting that before it gets to cover).

I'm not saying you don't need to lead, but you need less than you would with a shotgun IMHO.

And as you say, shooting at a moving target is really a last resort and it's not something I try to do in the normal course of things. And you really have to be on top form and "in the zone" to do it successfully, which is not always a given for me.

I can remember most of the running shots I've taken over the last nearly 40 years of rifle hunting (and forgotten most of the misses, conveniently).

Grizzly 45

Pity we don't have a running boar shooting range here in one of the ranges in Ireland.That is a great way to learn leading shots with a rifle at various speeds.

yubabill

I remember an article in the Shooting Times here long ago featuring a running boar competition that was held. Seemed to be a regular thing, but can't be sure.

extremetaz

Bogwoppit wrote: »

...scope was on 9x so I was swinging...

A long time ago I was given some advise by another forum member on here regarding your mag on a hunting rifle.

'You'll always have time if you need to zoom in, but you'll never have time if you need to zoom out'

His point being that you should make it a habit of always pulling the mag back again when you're done with needing it zoomed in.

Bogwoppit

extremetaz wrote: »

A long time ago I was given some advise by another forum member on here regarding your mag on a hunting rifle.

'You'll always have time if you need to zoom in, but you'll never have time if you need to zoom out'

His point being that you should make it a habit of always pulling the mag back again when you're done with needing it zoomed in.

Unless you’ve had to zoom in to take a shot and then it runs!

323

Attached image may be of interest, found online somewhere and saved years ago.


As a few rightly mentioned, practice!! & low Mag scope, personal choice 1.5x-6x for everything.

Before first tried driven hunting a french guy, >40 years experience suggested practice swinging on a fence/wall/hedge, keeping dot/cross-hairs on the top, swing left, right, sloping down & up, to develop muscle memory.
Pick your target point, dry-fire and swing through, to overcome the tendency to stop, reload immediately (without lowering) overcome the tendency to see where your shot went, and repeat.

Sounded nuts, but with no access to a running boar range, gave it a try, believe it defiantly paid off and still practice it regularly.

Saved follow up time on a couple of occasion since, maybe even two potentially expensive loss's, on animals that just didn't roll over to what afterwards proved to be decent boiler room shots.