Remote working - the future?

Sunny Disposition

Interesting, best of luck with the new place!

The results of the latest Whitaker Institute survey (NUIG) on remote working is out, its findings will surprise few.

RTE news : 30% would take lower-paid job for remote work - survey

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0530/1301895-remote-working-survey/

The institute page below has the surveys from 2020,2021 and 2022. Interesting to see worker attitudes hardening over time in relation to remote/hybrid working

http://whitakerinstitute.ie/project/remote-working-during-covid-19-irelands-national-survey/

Mrs OBumble

So over 2 in 3 wouldn't. No surprises in a time of steeply increasing living costs.

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119134227#Comment_119134227

"Overall, the study found that 95% of people believe working remotely has made life easier."

That's the key takeaway I feel. Also, why would one take a pay cut to work remotely? if the output is the same, the pay should be the same.

In my own case, output is far greater under remote work, so I should get an increase!

niallers1

You should not need to take a pay cut to work remotely. You get paid to do a Job. For most office based/non customer facing jobs work is an output not a location.

Our company (large) has calculated (not sure how) that productivity is up ~15% since people started working remotely and now want a minimum 50% of its workforce to sign up for fully remote work.

Working in an office with lots of people has too many distractions.

Backstreet Moyes

I can clean the house, cook the dinner, iron clothes, take the clothes off the line if it's raining during lunch or when I have downtime.

I can spend more time with my kid in the morning, I can drop them to school and be home to start at 9 and I can pick them up and drop them to whoever is minding them.

If I wasn't working from home I would be rushing to pick them up and drop them off or someone like my mother would be rushing in from work to pick them up.

I have never had a stronger year than last year in work and I haven't set foot in an office.

I have never been more energetic without the worry of school runs and rushing around or cleaning and preparing dinner after work when I'm tired.

I hated working from home at first and now I would hate to go back once a week and the majority of who I talked to with kids are the same.

Any company not offering any flexibility will suffer massively.

They are showing employees they don't care about them.

CPTM

It will be a new currency. The same reasons are posted time and again. If it does become a major requirement to go to the office, I'll happily take a 10k cut in wages and join a company that allows remote working. Companies that require experienced workers in their 30s and 40s to work in the office will have to pay a hefty premium for them. On site staff in their 20s will be easy enough to find I think .

Sunny Disposition

What people are still missing is that people who own businesses don't actually want to own or rent offices. They would almost all prefer you to work from home, because it is far, far less expensive. If work can be done to a proper standard remotely, then it is in employer's interests to stop paying for property.

The worker v employer thing is totally overdone. The interests co-incide completely, in relatively few cases will there be rows over this. The number of people working in offices is going to keep declining.

If you've never owned or rented commercial properties think of it like this; would you like to give up paying your mortgage and keep the benefits of home ownership? This is the closest equivalent I can come up with, it's brilliant for anyone paying many thousands a year for offices.

https://www.businessinsider.com/airbnbs-careers-page-viewed-800k-times-work-from-anywhere-benefit-2022-5?r=US&IR=T

A deluge of jobseekers hit Airbnb's careers page after the company announced last Thursday that employees could live and work anywhere forever.

Airbnb CEO and founder Brian Chesky announced the benefit in an email to staff, saying the vast majority of them would be able to choose to work where they are the "most productive." According to the memo, there will not be a loss in compensation if staffers work in their home country.

Airbnb employees are also permitted to work for up to 90 days a year overseas, although they will still need a permanent address for tax and payroll purposes, Chesky said in the email. Airbnb is hoping to "open-source" a solution to complications surrounding taxes, payroll, and time zone availability, he added.

"The response internally was great, but even more impressive [was] the response externally because our career page was visited 800,000 times after that announcement," said Chesky in a Tuesday earnings call for Airbnb's first-quarter results, according to a transcript.

CPTM

How do Air BnB get away with staff working anywhere in the world but everyone else is subject to tax laws? Or subject to questions around tax laws?

GoldFour4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119136631#Comment_119136631

It’s for 90 days a year rather the full year round . I’m not a tax expert but I’m sure that rule limits their exposure.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119136631#Comment_119136631

I doubt they are trying to get away with anything.

I'd say Air BnB have a presence already in many of the countries desire to move to and as a result are already compliant re tax etc.

Plus the article says that anyone who wants to move "in country" keeps their current salary.

But I'd imagine they'd drive a hard bargain for anyone wanting to move to a lower cost country, thus making that move far less desirable.

calistro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994349#Comment_118994349

Really hope you are successful with the interview!! It's my dream to work 100% remote. Got very close to it yesterday when there was a loose verbal agreement that I could go fully remote in Ireland or abroad by changing to freelance, went home and started planning things out only to come in this morning to the offer being rescinded as the Irish office had not fully cleared it with the head office before informing me and it's a big no no for them.

Gutted to say the least, especially at the unprofessionalism shown. Letter of resignations just drawn up as really went through the mill over the last 24hrs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140464#Comment_119140464

No idea what field you are in, but hop on Indeed etc and take a look. Filter by remote, you may find something that suits

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140464#Comment_119140464

perhaps they'll informally let you have fully remote? and that will tide you over til it's the norm anyways (in about a year)

Wompa1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119136631#Comment_119136631

One of my previous remote jobs while in Ireland was for a US company who didn't have or want an entity in Ireland. They ended up employing me through a 3rd party company who specialises in global HR. It worked out great, I dealt with an accountant based in Dublin and a European HR person but it was a little expensive for the company upfront. They paid $30k up front and then a monthly fee. The monthly was actually cheaper for them than it would have been to have me as an FTE on benefits and cheaper than what they would have paid even if I was to contract through one of their existing partners. I believe when I left they got most of the 30k back. The 30k was mostly to cover the global company in the event I had a dispute with the company I was doing the work for. That way, they would have a buffer of money to ensure I got paid while settling the dispute or going through the process of winding me down.

I have worked remotely for most of the last 10 years at least art of the time and several years fully remote. When I was renting a place to live and had to work 100% remote, I opted to use a co-working space 3 days a week. Now I own a home and have a proper office setup. I have nod desire to return to the office.

A nice move by the govt

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b3c2f-our-rural-future-minister-humphreys-announces-series-of-new-initiatives-to-support-remote-working/

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119173427#Comment_119173427

Agreed, this can only be a good thing and is just the start of things to come.

Sunny Disposition

Anyone know of any hub operating as a private business, in conjunction with something else like a cafe or a place for evening classes? They seem to be run by the public sector generally, but surely there is a role for having them as adjuncts to businesses.

And it begins....

Twitter announced they are closing/reducing office space at locations all over the world as they look to reduce costs and remote working makes this feasible.

Dublin is included in this

https://www.independent.ie/business/world/twitter-cuts-back-on-office-space-in-drive-to-cut-costs-41872656.html

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119405475#Comment_119405475

Spencer Dock developers should be bricking themselves by now...

The_Honeybadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119175804#Comment_119175804

I’m on the board of one of these hubs in a mid sized rural town. We got a capital grant to refurbish an old building in the middle of town when we started out but the company itself is a not for profit so it’s technically not state run, most others are the same. The shared workspace / rent a desk side of the business requires a lot of marketing, management and staff time for very little return quite honestly. Experience is the same in other hubs I know of as well. This is why connected hubs started providing the vouchers, take up across the country has been very low and it’s not stacking up commercially for operators.

Perhaps that may change in the future as WFH becomes more mainstream and companies strengthen their policies and supports for remote workers.

There is much better demand for the longer term traditional office rental and that keeps our hub going.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406904#Comment_119406904

The driving force is going to be what happens to commuting especially when the energy crisis really kicks off later this year. Not sure anyone has really worked out what the micro-office (does that term exist??) of the future will really operate.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119405475#Comment_119405475

Twitter in Dublin are letting out a floor they never used and had let out previouly... 🙄

The_Honeybadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407591#Comment_119407591

Yes, that and employee retention for more forward thinking companies. Making employees commute for hours every day when they can work remotely is crazy given what we have seen in recent years, even if there wasn’t a climate crisis.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408063#Comment_119408063

General impression I get is that people don't like their home also being their place of work, especially those who don't have the spare space for a dedicated desk, but waiting for the 66 bus at 7am is even less attractive. Some form of distributed working is the long-term future but I don't think it is full-time WFH.

Young_gunner

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/remote-working-in-recession-5825295-Aug2022/

good read

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418051#Comment_119418051

So instead of competing for jobs with people who live in my area, and people who are willing to move here, we are now all completing with people from all over the country? Great (not).

What I've observed in a lot of jobs ads lately is that while they're offering hybrid work arrangements with only 1-2 days per week in the office, they're also saying "must live within a reasonable commute of ABC, or move to this area before starting".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426263#Comment_119426263

What I've observed in a lot of jobs ads lately is that while they're offering hybrid work arrangements with only 1-2 days per week in the office, they're also saying "must live within a reasonable commute of ABC, or move to this area before starting".

Got any examples?

Conqueror

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426263#Comment_119426263

Yes, and now you would be able to compete for jobs in other parts of the country you mightn't have been able to apply for before. Great!

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426263#Comment_119426263

Exactly, welcome to the future! It's awesome and a huge positive for rural Ireland.

Sunny Disposition

I read an article this morning about the transfer of footballer Shane Walsh from his home club in Galway to one of the bigger clubs in Dublin. It was interesting how resigned it was about rural decline, it finished up by saying that drift to Dublin was the story of the last century and of this one.

Now, fair enough, there was a lot of it in the past, but surely there has been a bit of a reversal since 2019 and there's likely to be a drift away from Dublin rather than to it? I found it quite surprising. I'm about 70 miles from where Walsh is from and remote work has definitely seen a big increase in demand for property here.

Ottoman_1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426884#Comment_119426884

I'm not sure there is ever really going to be a full drift away from Dublin or any major City. I'm from Laois but married and live in Dublin and the only country friends I've seen relocate back home over the last 2 years are the the ones who had never really intended on living in Dublin for the foreseeable anyway. I've yet to encounter any Dublin nativities or international folk with any real interest of getting out of the rat race of Dublin and moving out to rural Ireland as the rat race of the big cities is all they know all their lives.

thats well and good, if living in dublin becomes a choice rather than a necessity then that will suit everyone

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426318#Comment_119426318

I don't have any examples, but this is what I'm seeing in my hardware engineering jobs.

You can work from home if you want to, but you must work from the office if we want you to.

givyjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426318#Comment_119426318

It seems to be something auto added on roles that I've seen on indeed. It's likely a checkbox somewhere on the employers side as the roles I've seen it in ,were word for word the same.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426884#Comment_119426884

I think it will take much longer than 3 years to become evident but this is what the future might hold.

Young people like living in cities for the most part.

It's where the fun is etc.

So young people go to college and stay in the city to work.

They meet other young people and settle down and start families.

Then they think that moving out of the city would be better, better for their kids, better for themselves.

So they move out of the city.

At this stage they are well established in their careers and have no problems with remote working etc

Then their kids go off to college and the cycle repeats.

So youth are still leaving for the city but the 40 and 50 something's and the young kids are coming back.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119449194#Comment_119449194

I dunno, I would have thought so once but not so sure now. With the rise of the internet, home entertainment is way ahead of what it was even seven years ago, online dating has also become very commonplace. All of this is at the same time as living in Dublin became very unaffordable.

While some young people did leave rural areas for the craic etc, in a huge number of cases it was solely for jobs. If forced migration stops happening, many aspects of life will be different, in both rural and urban areas.

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119449839#Comment_119449839

I really and truly hope you are right

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119449933#Comment_119449933

Surely its inevitable that a lot fewer people will move for work than previously?

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119449839#Comment_119449839

The living in Dublin being unaffordable is only a cycle, it's affordability will return.

And at the end of the day people do need physical contact regardless of how much they live in the online world.

Plus cities offer far more in the way of retail, entertainment, sports, arts etc.

Young people will always be attracted to the crowds and the bright lights.

HGVRHKYY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119450185#Comment_119450185

Even if I was fully remote I would much prefer to be able to live in a one bedroom apartment in/near the centre of the city if it was actually affordable, for exactly these reasons. Irish cities are just not very livable compared with many European ones, and many of our apartments and the areas they're in aren't very suited to long-term living. All over Europe you have loads of green spaces and parks dotted throughout cities which replace the back garden for people in the apartments nearby, and the public transport and infrastructure is generally much better too, so living in a city is very enjoyable. Ireland's backwards when it comes to this type of thing

Sunny Disposition

There’s no doubt a lot of people do like things you get in cities, anonymity, greater social life etc. And there are bound to be people who will want to move to Dublin because of all that.

But for generations people have also left rural areas for urban solely to take up jobs. For no other reason, they would have stayed put if they could do the job locally. Those people won’t be arriving in the same numbers int he future. It’ll mean something of a resurgence for smaller towns and a gradual decline in Dublin particularly. But it’ll probably be a good thing for Dublin because it has been so gentrified.

Mrs OBumble

I worked in a Galway based MNC for about 8 years. I lost count of the number of local graduates who were hired but left after 2ish years because they wanted to experience Dublin.

I'm guessing that a Dublin based job done from the comfort of their childhood bedroom isn't what they were looking for.

Similarly, my current Irish-owned services firm no longer hires Dubs unless they committ to moving down before they start: We let people WFH up to 4 days/ week, but we now know that if they haven't moved, they are likely to leave the moment they get offered a Dublin based job.

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454938#Comment_119454938

I think with the current impossibility of finding rental accommodation in Dublin and then the cost of it if you do find it, many are quite happy to be located somewhere nice outside the capital.

Swings and roundabouts over time, with the advent of online dating and so many other things I can see how young 20-somethings are perfectly happy living outside Dublin.

with the added benefit that they'll be able to afford a home at some stage in their life, whereas if you're renting in Dublin......

manniot2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119449194#Comment_119449194

In general, why is rural Ireland better for kids than a decent Dublin suburb? Genuine question, I hear this all the time but never really hear why.

qba73

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058189044/remote-working-the-future

100% fully remote. 2hr daily commute saved, petrol saved etc. more time for sport, family and less stress. The most important is to keep work and private life separated!

qba73

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117288254#Comment_117288254

Couldn’t agree more! Time with family is priceless, time with coworkers is work, nothing more!

Furze99

Depends what you mean by rural Ireland. Reading around the subject, it seems likely this in reality extends to a commuter belt around major population areas for most. So maybe WFH for couple of days and in office for rest, which means that it still has to be commutable.

So property price pressure in all these areas but not so much for the northern shores of Mayo and far flung Cork/Kerry etc. As for living in the Canaries and WFH...unlikely.

Not sure if the Greens will be very happy with this, as their policy is nucleated settlement rather than wide dispersal of one off commuter houses.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456127#Comment_119456127

Statistically healthier less sedentary. Not everyone will prefer the same thing obviously.