Remote working - the future?

blackcard

I find it amazing that a lot of people have time to post on this thread during working hours. Will this be more or less likely if more people are working from home?

kippy

blackcard wrote: »

I find it amazing that a lot of people have time to post on this thread during working hours. Will this be more or less likely if more people are working from home?

People have been posting on boards during working hours for decades. Some things will never change thankfully.

kippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Expand?

Well how many jobs exist in organisations that don't really need to be there at all if you analyse it deeply? I am speaking in terms of private sector here as well as public sector. What happens to these people once they can be done without?
Expanding it further, when you don't have centres of employment (lets just call it that) what happens to the support structures around these centres of employment. Much less economic activity supporting coffee shops, restaurants, bars etc etc and not all of this activity goes back to rural areas and gets spent elsewhere.
Less jobs in general.
Note: I am entirely pro work from home/employee choice but there will be some major changes associated with it IF it becomes widespread and not all of them positive, however I believe the positives do outweigh the negatives.

joe40

Because of my job working from home won't be an option, but I think I would miss the interaction with colleagues.

I think a hybrid model would be ideal for most (just my opinion). Limit the commutes but still retain the interaction between staff. This would be particularly important for new staff.

For a lot of people moving to a new place, work is where you make first contacts and friends.

I have colleagues who are also close friends and meet regularly outside of the workplace.

Young_gunner

C3PO wrote: »

And so you should definitely find a job that allows you to continue to work remotely. But it is becoming clear that full time working from home will not be a choice for the majority of office workers much as you would seem to wish for that.
Can I ask whether you are so exercised because you are being put under pressure to return to the office?

I’m “exercised” as I see the enormous opportunity we are presented with to improve quality of life by allowing people to wrk fully remotely. I have yet to hear any coherent sensible argument to mandate people to return to any office for any amount of days. Do you have a coherent argument for same?

Points around “culture” and “collaboration” all seem so nebulous and flimsy.

(Btw, I’m here for a respectful discussion)

Mrs OBumble

Young_gunner wrote: »

I’m

Points around “culture” and “collaboration” all seem so nebulous and flimsy.)

Why do they seem like that? Do you really not understand what ethos and values are. Are you such an individualist that you never work with other people - including inexperienced ones who need to learn how to apply theory in practice?

krissovo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have Revenue signed off on the expenses ?

Why would I care? I work for a MNC I am sure they have done their homework.

Young_gunner

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why do they seem like that? Do you really not understand what ethos and values are. Are you such an individualist that you never work with other people - including inexperienced ones who need to learn how to apply theory in practice?

I wonder has anyone not been able to do their job properly over the last 15 months due to wondering about ethos and values? I really don’t think so!

The chan chan man

Graduates need to be in an office to learn from the older guys. Full time remote working is not sustainable or realistic. 1-2 days at home per week in manageable i think and that’s how we’ll be dealing with it from Sept on.

dkav9

The chan chan man wrote: »

Graduates need to be in an office to learn from the older guys. Full time remote working is not sustainable or realistic. 1-2 days at home per week in manageable i think and that’s how we’ll be dealing with it from Sept on.

why can't they learn over teams/sprout etc?

C3PO

Young_gunner wrote: »

Points around “culture” and “collaboration” all seem so nebulous and flimsy.

For many companies these would be huge considerations and far from nebulous - it could be argued that they are what distinguish one company from another!

Personally, I be perfectly happy to work permanently remotely but I can see the impact that this has had on our organisation’s “culture” and “collaboration” over the last 15 months and it has not been positive! And so I will be agreeable to work a hybrid model which I think gives a very fair compromise!

Young_gunner

C3PO wrote: »

For many companies these would be huge considerations and far from nebulous - it could be argued that they are what distinguish one company from another!

Personally, I be perfectly happy to work permanently remotely but I can see the impact that this has had on our organisation’s “culture” and “collaboration” over the last 15 months and it has not been positive! And so I will be agreeable to work a hybrid model which I think gives a very fair compromise!

In my firm we’ve been more productive than ever, and personally I’ve worked harder than ever.

I’ve never once said to myself “I miss the culture”

Antares35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why do they seem like that? Do you really not understand what ethos and values are. Are you such an individualist that you never work with other people - including inexperienced ones who need to learn how to apply theory in practice?

I've been working with other people since March 2020. It just happens that we've also been WFH. You keep banging this drum that people who support home working are without ethos, values and team spirit but it's not true.

Mrs OBumble

Antares35 wrote: »

I've been working with other people since March 2020. It just happens that we've also been WFH. You keep banging this drum that people who support home working are without ethos, values and team spirit but it's not true.

No I don't.

They have a very strong ethos and values, based on individual happiness. Team spirit? The proof is in the pudding on that one.

steveasdf

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No I don't.

They have a very strong ethos and values, based on individual happiness. Team spirit? The proof is in the pudding on that one.

Are you trolling? To say this post is a massive generalisation would be an understatement to say the least..

Antares35

steveasdf wrote: »

Are you trolling? To say this post is a massive generalisation would be an understatement to say the least..

I didn't even know what that post meant it was so vague.

Young_gunner

so the current standings in the poll show that out of c.200 people, almost 47% want to work full time remote, 47% want a hybrid and 6% want a full return to the office.

the times, they are a changing!

caviardreams

Young_gunner wrote: »

In my firm we’ve been more productive than ever, and personally I’ve worked harder than ever.

I’ve never once said to myself “I miss the culture”

Culture isn't something you "miss" - it's the organisation's operating system, it's how work happens - the norms, expectations, behavior, standards. It takes a long time to develop and to change, and equally a long time to erode so it may not be noticeable in a year or two but 5 years+ of fully remote working and who knows what will happen in terms of expected behaviour and cultural norms imo.

Young_gunner

caviardreams wrote: »

Culture isn't something you "miss" - it's the organisation's operating system, it's how work happens - the norms, expectations, behavior, standards. It takes a long time to develop and to change, and equally a long time to erode so it may not be noticeable in a year or two but 5 years+ of fully remote working and who knows what will happen in terms of expected behaviour and cultural norms imo.

Again this is all so spurious and speculative

caviardreams

Young_gunner wrote: »

Again this is all so spurious and speculative

Speculative - yes, and I actually said "who knows what will happen" Nobody knows the long term effects - good or bad - so everything and every view on this is speculative imo (including your own)

Spurious - can you really see into the future 5 years from now as to what the effect and impact will be for definite and know with 100% certainty that there won't be any negative effect?

markpb

Young_gunner wrote: »

Again this is all so spurious and speculative

Dismissing something as spurious and speculative because you don’t understand it is very naïve. I don’t understand string theory but I’m happy that it is a real thing and not just something physicist’s make up to keep themselves in a job.

Likewise, the social interaction between people in any context (work, family, friends) is a real thing. The bond (whether you’re aware of it or not) between workers is a real thing. The ethos in a company is absolutely real. It’s the thing that makes people in a company behave a certain way, it influences how they relate to each other, how they feel about the company and its consumers, how they go about their work, how they behave under pressure and a whole host of other things. Even the most ardent individual contributor is shaped by these things, even if they’re unaware of it or deny its existence.

Almost everyone is aware of toxic workplaces, why do people deny that positive workspaces and ethos and culture also exist? If you started a job in a company where people showed up late all the time, bitched about management and customers and made no effort to do a good job, do you think you wouldn’t be affected by that?

It’s possible that a move to widespread WFH will happen and persist in the long term but no-one knows yet. It’s possible that people will flourish in that environment, that relationships can be created over Teams, that remote working is suitable for the masses and not just the people who choose to do it in the past and in companies that created the right environment for it to work. Only time will tell, anyone declaring success in 15 months is jumping the gun.

C3PO

Young_gunner wrote: »

so the current standings in the poll show that out of c.200 people, almost 47% want to work full time remote, 47% want a hybrid and 6% want a full return to the office.

the times, they are a changing!

Ah here ... so the majority of people want to return to the office in some capacity and you are claiming a victory?

I can guarantee you that if I put up a poll asking people whether they wanted to work a 3 day week the vast majority would think it was a great idea! But is it likely to happen any time soon - absolutely not! I’m afraid fully remote working for anyone who wants it is just as likely a scenario as a 3 day working week!

Sunny Disposition

Remote working is bound to be the future, just because it makes sense. The hybrid model makes sense too of course, to a point. But cutting out the need for office space offers massive cost savings, way too big to be passed up. The emergence of remote working is like finding a way out of paying your mortgage/rent but still keeping a roof over your head. That’s without the benefits of cutting out commuting times for workers, which is obviously good for productivity.

It really needs to be embraced at all levels, rather than resisted. Business is competitive and global and companies who don’t embrace it will be at a major disadvantage. When there are problems those need to be dealt with without trying to turn the clock back to 2019.

All this was coming anyway, but the pandemic brought it about at a pace too fast for some people to be comfortable with, which is a bit unfortunate, but can be dealt with.

The Irish government really need to get onboard with it and help the transition, because we are so dependent on exports. We can’t afford to be laggards.

There are few companies that won’t have had at least a few issues over the last year and there needs to be a sharing of information to help with the change. Small businesses in particular could do with some support and advice, but encouraged not to regress and and try to just go back to what they were doing pre-pandemic.

On a societal level a lot of work needs to be done too. A lot of people’s lives are defined by work and the ensuing relationships, but those are not going to be as strong anymore. People will have more time and need to be helped to use that to develop replacement social relationships away from work.
The internet has changed life dramatically in many ways already, this is the next wave, there are more positives than negatives, but there is a need to recognise that this is massive social/commercial change and to try and deal with the challenges.

Mrs OBumble

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

When there are problems those need to be dealt with without trying to turn the clock back to 2019.
All this was coming anyway, but the pandemic brought it about at a pace too fast for some people to be comfortable with, which is a bit unfortunate, but can be dealt with.

A major problem is that most Irish houses are build without a separate office. Some people have a spare bedroom which can be converted. But many don't. And there's not exactly a glut of spare houses, with our without office space, at the moment.

So how can that be dealt with? If you say regional hubs, please address the issue of who pays for the space they provide, and how employers still achieve savings if they have to pay for this.

Sunny Disposition

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

A major problem is that most Irish houses are build without a separate office. Some people have a spare bedroom which can be converted. But many don't. And there's not exactly a glut of spare houses, with our without office space, at the moment.

So how can that be dealt with? If you say regional hubs, please address the issue of who pays for the space they provide, and how employers still achieve savings if they have to pay for this.

This is kind of what I was referring to in the post, people need to be supported to work in as comfortable a way as possible remotely, that needs to be a focus. Most office workers have done fairly well over the last year and the State can play a role in encouraging sharing of information, even at the level of showing people how to organise their homes, and definitely providing grants for desks/chairs. Realistically at this stage it’s fairly clear office work can be done remotely, it’s about doing it as well as possible now. Of course very few people have a separate office in their house, but that doesn’t mean people can’t work from home, millions of people around the world are doing it.

I just think remote working is inevitable because of the cost savings first and foremost. Forty years ago two of my companies had offices in London and the rent was a massive pain. I had a small office in Belfast until a few months ago but closing that is a great help too, and the staff are doing fine so far. I encourage them to come to me with any remote working issues, it’s important to do that and support them. There’s no way firms are going to keep up offices if they don’t have to, it’d be madness. Even if they have to keep some physical place they’ll want it to be as small as possible.

I think trying to argue against remote working rather than making it as easy as possible for everyone is a mistake some people could make for a while. Railing against it won’t help, accepting it and working to deal with the challenges is really the best option. It clearly can be done and it saves money and cuts out commuting time. There’s really no point arguing it can’t be done, it’s about helping people to adjust if it’s not easy for them.

Young_gunner

C3PO wrote: »

Ah here ... so the majority of people want to return to the office in some capacity and you are claiming a victory?

I can guarantee you that if I put up a poll asking people whether they wanted to work a 3 day week the vast majority would think it was a great idea! But is it likely to happen any time soon - absolutely not! I’m afraid fully remote working for anyone who wants it is just as likely a scenario as a 3 day working week!

With respect, I think you're missing the point.

re. a 3 day week, this isn't a fair comparison. People haven't been working a 3 day week for the last 15 months with no drop in productivity!

Current Pole results show that only 5% want a full return to the office, and 47% want to work full time remotely with occasional visits to the office.

but look, it's up to employees to make their case for what they want and employers to do the same.
I think sensible Employers will afford trusted staff maximum flexibility.

Mrs OBumble

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

... the State can play a role in encouraging sharing of information, even at the level of showing people how to organise their homes

... I encourage them to come to me with any remote working issues

... it’s about helping people to adjust if it’s not easy for them.

So advise me:

I live in a small apartment. There is NO spare floor space to install a dedicated computer desk or any other furniture. It's a rental with minimum furniture anyway. I have my monitor propped on a shoe-box in the middle of the 2-person-size kitchen table. The laptop goes in front of it. There are about 9 square inches to the side for the mouse. When I'm working from home and on calls, my semi-retired partner has NO living area available for him to listen to the TV/radio/music - and he needs to not talk to me 'cos I'm thinking about work. We have a Part 4 tenancy in a RPZ, which I don't want to lose the benefits of - and besides there are very few properties available to rent. Renting an office in this area would cost me €600pcm or more, which I cannot afford.

How should I "adjust" to make WFH viable?

kippy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So advise me:

I live in a small apartment. There is NO spare floor space to install a dedicated computer desk or any other furniture. It's a rental with minimum furniture anyway. I have my monitor propped on a shoe-box in the middle of the 2-person-size kitchen table. The laptop goes in front of it. There are about 9 square inches to the side for the mouse. When I'm working from home and on calls, my semi-retired partner has NO living area available for him to listen to the TV/radio/music - and he needs to not talk to me 'cos I'm thinking about work. We have a Part 4 tenancy in a RPZ, which I don't want to lose the benefits of - and besides there are very few properties available to rent. Renting an office in this area would cost me €600pcm or more.

How should I "adjust" to make WFH viable?

You can't do much really - you've been fairly steadfast in your opposition to it from the beginning so it's obviosuly something you have no time for.
As such - you'll make decisions based on your own circumstances and priorities/requirements - which is totally fine.
Others will do the same, and we'll all get along fine, just as we always have.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So advise me:

I live in a small apartment. There is NO spare floor space to install a dedicated computer desk or any other furniture. It's a rental with minimum furniture anyway. I have my monitor propped on a shoe-box in the middle of the 2-person-size kitchen table. The laptop goes in front of it. There are about 9 square inches to the side for the mouse. When I'm working from home and on calls, my semi-retired partner has NO living area available for him to listen to the TV/radio/music - and he needs to not talk to me 'cos I'm thinking about work. We have a Part 4 tenancy in a RPZ, which I don't want to lose the benefits of - and besides there are very few properties available to rent. Renting an office in this area would cost me €600pcm or more, which I cannot afford.

How should I "adjust" to make WFH viable?

Get a smaller mouse?

ineedeuro

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So advise me:

I live in a small apartment. There is NO spare floor space to install a dedicated computer desk or any other furniture. It's a rental with minimum furniture anyway. I have my monitor propped on a shoe-box in the middle of the 2-person-size kitchen table. The laptop goes in front of it. There are about 9 square inches to the side for the mouse. When I'm working from home and on calls, my semi-retired partner has NO living area available for him to listen to the TV/radio/music - and he needs to not talk to me 'cos I'm thinking about work. We have a Part 4 tenancy in a RPZ, which I don't want to lose the benefits of - and besides there are very few properties available to rent. Renting an office in this area would cost me €600pcm or more, which I cannot afford.

How should I "adjust" to make WFH viable?

Go wireless