Remote working - the future?

Antares35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So advise me:

I live in a small apartment. There is NO spare floor space to install a dedicated computer desk or any other furniture. It's a rental with minimum furniture anyway. I have my monitor propped on a shoe-box in the middle of the 2-person-size kitchen table. The laptop goes in front of it. There are about 9 square inches to the side for the mouse. When I'm working from home and on calls, my semi-retired partner has NO living area available for him to listen to the TV/radio/music - and he needs to not talk to me 'cos I'm thinking about work. We have a Part 4 tenancy in a RPZ, which I don't want to lose the benefits of - and besides there are very few properties available to rent. Renting an office in this area would cost me €600pcm or more, which I cannot afford.

How should I "adjust" to make WFH viable?

Best thing you could do is return to the office when it's safe to do so, but stop trying to invent reasons for others to have to do the same.

Sunny Disposition

If you want to invent scenarios you’ll inevitably find one suitable, but I think we all realise almost all office workers can work from home.

Anyway looking at hard cases is missing the point. Business is not going to wait. The poll on this thread is aimed at employees and is really asking would people like to go back to work. The more important question for business owners is will my company be more competitive if I can eliminate paying for office space or reduce the amount paid. There may be some companies that it won’t matter to, but the vast majority are going to say yes.

That’s really why remote working is here to stay.

Unfortunately few companies are going to be able to keep an office going to facilitate a worker who finds it hard to work remotely. It may sound harsh, but that’s how it is, people face displacement from time to time in their working lives. When manufacturing jobs moved to low wage countries some people were left behind, there’s a possibility a very small number of people in extremely unfortunate domestic circumstances will struggle now.

There are going to be wider implications for society, fewer cars on the road, less social interaction, quieter city centres, major displacement of spending. The significance of this is enormous, and some people will not like it, but that’s beside the point really. Business isn’t going to facilitate them.

Mrs OBumble

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

If you want to invent scenarios you’ll inevitably find one suitable, but I think we all realise almost all office workers can work from home.

Anyway looking at hard cases is missing the point. Business is not going to wait.

I haven't invented anything. I've described one very specific case (mine) to see what the "advice" is - and it seems to be "suck it up buttercup, you need to provide me with working space now". That's REALLY helpful. (Not).

Ireland's housing shortage is well known. I am certain there are many people who face challenges worse than mine. Moving to a housing stock which is adequate for the population, and which also has space for WFH, will take a long, long time.

Just saying "businesses don't need offices because people can work from home" is bogus. Companies are still required to have registered offices. Customers still assess potential suppliers based on their perceived capacity to deliver: a company that is little more than a network of home-workers just looks dodgy.

OEP

For companies trying to hire talent in competitive areas, tech for example, not offering the option of fully remote working will leave them behind the competition.

ineedeuro

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I haven't invented anything. I've described one very specific case (mine) to see what the "advice" is - and it seems to be "suck it up buttercup, you need to provide me with working space now". That's REALLY helpful. (Not).

Ireland's housing shortage is well known. I am certain there are many people who face challenges worse than mine. Moving to a housing stock which is adequate for the population, and which also has space for WFH, will take a long, long time.

Just saying "businesses don't need offices because people can work from home" is bogus. Companies are still required to have registered offices. Customers still assess potential suppliers based on their perceived capacity to deliver: a company that is little more than a network of home-workers just looks dodgy.

No company is shutting down its offices and nobody suggested anything of the sort
Plus no customer is ever going to stop dealing with a company because they moved to a WFH

No need to make up stuff

C3PO

Young_gunner wrote: »

but look, it's up to employees to make their case for what they want and employers to do the same.
I think sensible Employers will afford trusted staff maximum flexibility.

I agree - and that's all I've been saying from the start! I just don't believe that full time remote working will become the norm for office workers - I would guess that a maximum of 25% of people will end up doing this when things return to normality!

The chan chan man

The chan chan man wrote: »

Graduates need to be in an office to learn from the older guys. Full time remote working is not sustainable or realistic. 1-2 days at home per week in manageable i think and that’s how we’ll be dealing with it from Sept on.

I think there's some truth to this. I switched careers in my late 20s and I think back to the first job I had in my new field, knew absolutely nothing about anything, and being in the office with experienced folk and just as importantly my peers was vital imo.

Conversely, I started a new job last year during the pandemic, and onboarded remotely which was fine, but I have a lot more experience now so it's more manageable. I wouldn't fancy being fresh out of college and having to do everything remotely I must say. Though I'm sure circumstances have dictated it for a lot of people over the past year or so.

Sunny Disposition

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I haven't invented anything. I've described one very specific case (mine) to see what the "advice" is - and it seems to be "suck it up buttercup, you need to provide me with working space now". That's REALLY helpful. (Not).

Ireland's housing shortage is well known. I am certain there are many people who face challenges worse than mine. Moving to a housing stock which is adequate for the population, and which also has space for WFH, will take a long, long time.

Just saying "businesses don't need offices because people can work from home" is bogus. Companies are still required to have registered offices. Customers still assess potential suppliers based on their perceived capacity to deliver: a company that is little more than a network of home-workers just looks dodgy.

Sorry that’s the case for you, obviously you’ll need a job that doesn’t require remote working if you’re going to keep living where you are. I think I said earlier in the thread that there are challenges and these are for individuals as much as businesses. But it’s still reality, office work is going to evaporate in the coming years, it’s too convenient for business to cut it out.
Of course it doesn’t suit everyone, but that won’t stop it, no more than the increase in unemployment in richer countries didn’t stop outsourcing to Asia and Eastern Europe.
I'd like to see the State introduce a ministry responsible for the transition, it's fairly obvious that remote working is going to bring significant personal and societal changes and the State needs to support people like yourself who are in difficulty.

ineedeuro

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Sorry that’s the case for you, obviously you’ll need a job that doesn’t require remote working if you’re going to keep living where you are. I think I said earlier in the thread that there are challenges and these are for individuals as much as businesses. But it’s still reality, office work is going to evaporate in the coming years, it’s too convenient for business to cut it out.
Of course it doesn’t suit everyone, but that won’t stop it, no more than the increase in unemployment in richer countries didn’t stop outsourcing to Asia and Eastern Europe.
I'd like to see the State introduce a ministry responsible for the transition, it's fairly obvious that remote working is going to bring significant personal and societal changes and the State needs to support people like yourself who are in difficulty.

Why would we need a ministry?
Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill

The fact is 1-2 people will not want WFH. That is no issue, as I suggested on the other thread here those people approach their HR and they will provide a solution. Job done

Sunny Disposition

OEP wrote: »

For companies trying to hire talent in competitive areas, tech for example, not offering the option of fully remote working will leave them behind the competition.

Not doubting this is true, but the wider point is away from employees.



Companies wanting to maximise their profits and gain advantages over competitors are going to want to pay as little as possible for office space.

I think because most people are employees the talk is about whether workers like it or not. But the decision makers are those who pay the bills for offices. None of them want to pay this money, but up until recently they felt they had to. Now that in many sectors they know they don't, they will want to cut down or in some cases completely eliminate the expense.

Sunny Disposition

ineedeuro wrote: »

Why would we need a ministry?
Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill

The fact is 1-2 people will not want WFH. That is no issue, as I suggested on the other thread here those people approach their HR and they will provide a solution. Job done

There will be massive issues. The economy will have to adjust greatly. City centre businesses based on being close to thousands of office workers are going to be unnecessary. The type of interpersonal contact that goes with office work will be greatly lessened. There will be individuals who will struggle with being at home full time.
Now the benefits are greater, and the ministry would be largely devoted to helping the process rather than helping individuals who are struggling, but there certainly would be plenty to do.

Sunny Disposition

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Not doubting this is true, but the wider point is away from employees.



Companies wanting to maximise their profits and gain advantages over competitors are going to want to pay as little as possible for office space.

I think because most people are employees the talk is about whether workers like it or not. But the decision makers are those who pay the bills for offices. None of them want to pay this money, but up until recently they felt they had to. Now that in many sectors they know they don't, they will want to cut down or in some cases completely eliminate the expense.

I think the demise of the office is overstated and we'll land somewhere in the middle. Saw this at the weekend for example, that tech companies are going to keep expanding in Dublin. TikTok have just taken the huge office on Cardiff Lane so they clearly don't plan on getting rid of offices, etc.

I have a pal who works for a company who have closed their office and most of the employees are pretty unhappy about it, he is definitely going to leave once the pandemic restrictions pass and he suspects a lot of his colleagues will too. I know anecdote =/= data but we don't really have enough data on this yet to make a conclusion (bar the likes of the above that tech companies ARE still taking office space).

ELM327

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So advise me:

I live in a small apartment. There is NO spare floor space to install a dedicated computer desk or any other furniture. It's a rental with minimum furniture anyway. I have my monitor propped on a shoe-box in the middle of the 2-person-size kitchen table. The laptop goes in front of it. There are about 9 square inches to the side for the mouse. When I'm working from home and on calls, my semi-retired partner has NO living area available for him to listen to the TV/radio/music - and he needs to not talk to me 'cos I'm thinking about work. We have a Part 4 tenancy in a RPZ, which I don't want to lose the benefits of - and besides there are very few properties available to rent. Renting an office in this area would cost me €600pcm or more, which I cannot afford.

How should I "adjust" to make WFH viable?

Your problem/issue is your mentality, and not the physical space/setup.

markpb

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

But it’s still reality, office work is going to evaporate in the coming years, it’s too convenient for business to cut it out.

Can you send me next weeks lotto numbers while you have your magic 8 ball out? The reality is that neither you, nor I, nor anyone else has any idea how this is going to play out. People were predicting the paperless office for 40 years and it's still not entirely there. Remote working has been an option for employers to offer for a very long time and, until the pandemic, it wasn't a priority. You're also ignoring the fact that commercial leases tend to be quite long with break clauses only in the latter years. Ten years with a break at 5 or 7 (or none at all) wouldn't be unusual for offices in cities. If a company decided, for cost reasons, to downsize or remove their office today, they could be left paying rent for many years or paying a massive break fee. Some employers might decide to go for it anyway and leave the office empty (or subleased) but it's not a certainty in the short term.

At either end of the scale, my employer is renovating the office to create extra work space and meeting space because so many people said they wanted to go back to the office full or part time. On the other hand, my wife's employers are in the process of ditching half their Irish office with each team coming in one day a week. This was done without any consultation and employees will not be given the choice of returning full time.

ineedeuro

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

There will be massive issues. The economy will have to adjust greatly. City centre businesses based on being close to thousands of office workers are going to be unnecessary. The type of interpersonal contact that goes with office work will be greatly lessened. There will be individuals who will struggle with being at home full time.
Now the benefits are greater, and the ministry would be largely devoted to helping the process rather than helping individuals who are struggling, but there certainly would be plenty to do.

No massive issues. This was already discussed in detail and you ignored the responses and kept coming with with outlandish "what if's"

Fact is WFH is a huge positive for Ireland.
It won't work for some people and hence why you have a HR department
The government already has department to resolve work issues.

markpb

ineedeuro wrote: »

No massive issues. This was already discussed in detail and you ignored the responses and kept coming with with outlandish "what if's"

They're not wrong. If there was a large-scale shift to WFT in Dublin, the hospitality sector would be dealt a massive blow. All the cafes, restaurants and bars would collapse. The existing and planned public transport networks would be completely wrong for our needs. The same applies to all the business parks dotted around the city. There will be people who benefit from WFH but there will be people who it will be a massive negative for. You can't just dismiss that.

I'm not saying that we should all continue to commute into the city centre to keep Starbucks going but you can't glibly say that there will be no issues.

Sunny Disposition

ineedeuro wrote: »

No massive issues. This was already discussed in detail and you ignored the responses and kept coming with with outlandish "what if's"

Fact is WFH is a huge positive for Ireland.
It won't work for some people and hence why you have a HR department
The government already has department to resolve work issues.

I'm not saying it's not a huge positive, I do think it is very positive. But there will still be a lot of issues, many of which aren't understood yet, because it's relatively new. The next 20 years are going to see a huge change in settlement, how people socialise and the activity in town centres. Now, I think this will be very positive, but it does need some effort at management.

I think it's going to be the biggest change here in hundreds of years tbh.

There were 47 people working in the office we closed in Belfast. All of those people's lives have changed already, most for the better, some would rather a hybrid option, but I think they'd all rather 100% remote than 100% in the office.

Now there was a shop pretty near our old place that once would have taken around £1,500 a week from our workers for fags, sandwiches, drinks etc. That money will be spent in other places now, so it's a win for rural/suburban areas, but a loss for the city. That's going to be happening all over Ireland, all over the world really.
It is a positive, for the company, the employees and the less central areas, but for the city centre it's a loss.

Remote working from home obviously needs to be encouraged, but its facile to say that because it's positive there aren't issues or challenges that need to be managed.

ineedeuro

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I'm not saying it's not a huge positive, I do think it is very positive. But there will still be a lot of issues, many of which aren't understood yet, because it's relatively new. The next 20 years are going to see a huge change in settlement, how people socialise and the activity in town centres. Now, I think this will be very positive, but it does need some effort at management.

I think it's going to be the biggest change here in hundreds of years tbh.

There were 47 people working in the office we closed in Belfast. All of those people's lives have changed already, most for the better, some would rather a hybrid option, but I think they'd all rather 100% remote than 100% in the office.

Now there was a shop pretty near our old place that once would have taken around £1,500 a week from our workers for fags, sandwiches, drinks etc. That money will be spent in other places now, so it's a win for rural/suburban areas, but a loss for the city. That's going to be happening all over Ireland, all over the world really.
It is a positive, for the company, the employees and the less central areas, but for the city centre it's a loss.

Remote working from home obviously needs to be encouraged, but its facile to say that because it's positive there aren't issues or challenges that need to be managed.

As I mentioned this was already discussed earlier on the thread. Constantly going back over the same thing is pointless waste of time.

Sunny Disposition

markpb wrote: »

They're not wrong. If there was a large-scale shift to WFT in Dublin, the hospitality sector would be dealt a massive blow. All the cafes, restaurants and bars would collapse. The existing and planned public transport networks would be completely wrong for our needs. The same applies to all the business parks dotted around the city. There will be people who benefit from WFH but there will be people who it will be a massive negative for. You can't just dismiss that.

I'm not saying that we should all continue to commute into the city centre to keep Starbucks going but you can't glibly say that there will be no issues.

This is happening already, a lot of city centre businesses won't be viable in the medium term. The money is going to be spent in suburbs or rural areas instead. While this is overall a positive, especially in Ireland which is so centralised, there's definitely going to be displacement.
It surely doesn't make you less of an advocate for remote working to acknowledge that!

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Your problem/issue is your mentality, and not the physical space/setup.

I think that is a tad harsh in that some people just do not have a setup at home that is suitable for home working, but all that poster needs to do is go back to the office once offices open again, there's no generalisation to be made from one particular set of circumstances.

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

This is happening already, a lot of city centre businesses won't be viable in the medium term. The money is going to be spent in suburbs or rural areas instead. While this is overall a positive, especially in Ireland which is so centralised, there's definitely going to be displacement.
It surely doesn't make you less of an advocate for remote working to acknowledge that!

How is it happening? What businesses? A lot of business have unfortunately closed because the city centre has been a ghost town for a year but we're in no position to say it's because of a fundamental shift away from the office.

Flinty997

The chan chan man wrote: »

Graduates need to be in an office to learn from the older guys. Full time remote working is not sustainable or realistic. 1-2 days at home per week in manageable i think and that’s how we’ll be dealing with it from Sept on.

You can learn from other people remotely.
Just many choose not to engage with it.

markpb

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

This is happening already, a lot of city centre businesses won't be viable in the medium term. The money is going to be spent in suburbs or rural areas instead. While this is overall a positive, especially in Ireland which is so centralised, there's definitely going to be displacement.

I still think it's far too early to declare it a positive. I think it's such a massive change that no-one could try to predict the impact it will have. There are so many inter-connecting things that no-one could guess what will happen.

For example, if lots of people leave Dublin entirely and spread out across the country, how do you serve anywhere with public transport? Do we increase car dependency which is bad for pollution, bad for the economy (cars are not produced here) and regressive because cars are expensive to run? Where do those people live, are we going to start building housing estates, shops and schools in towns and villages across the country? How long will that take? We already see rent pressures caused by people earning "Dublin" salaries renting in villages and pushing up the rent? Will people be happy to accept pay cuts or lower pay rises if they're no longer paying rent in cities? (This has happened in tech companies in America already).

If people stay in Dublin but mostly WFH, where does that leave the city centre? Who will go there? Will shops start opening for a few hours in the evenings instead of all days because there won't be any office workers there during the day? If the hospitality sector dies, where does that leave our tourism sector? The rural part might be fine as long as all the new housing developments don't ruin the thing that makes rural Ireland attractive. A city with little or no hospitality sector won't be attractive to the large cohort of people who go on city holidays.

ELM327

Layla Full Seaport wrote: »

I think that is a tad harsh in that some people just do not have a setup at home that is suitable for home working, but all that poster needs to do is go back to the office once offices open again, there's no generalisation to be made from one particular set of circumstances.

It would be a tad harsh towards most posters I agree, but that specific poster is as anti WFH (and employees in general TBH), as antivaxxers are against vaccines. Religious fervor comes to mind.

ineedeuro

markpb wrote: »

They're not wrong. If there was a large-scale shift to WFT in Dublin, the hospitality sector would be dealt a massive blow. All the cafes, restaurants and bars would collapse. The existing and planned public transport networks would be completely wrong for our needs. The same applies to all the business parks dotted around the city. There will be people who benefit from WFH but there will be people who it will be a massive negative for. You can't just dismiss that.

I'm not saying that we should all continue to commute into the city centre to keep Starbucks going but you can't glibly say that there will be no issues.

Take Dublin for instance
Currently the public transport system is not fit for purpose
Little shops etc are getting pushed out of the city and bought out by coffee shops
None of the offices are talking about closing offices. Most are looking at a few days from home, few days in office. This is to get best of both World

People are building this up as the end of the World. IN Feb last year we had the whole discussion about the death of Ireland outside cities. Yes we had a pandemic and yes a few people have now moved towards towns/villages but we are nowhere near anything close to what is going on in this thread.

If the move happens it will happen over the enxt 5-10 years. Maybe even 20 years and to be honest cities like Dublin need it because they cannot cater for the current amount of people going into the centre. Even after 20 years you will still probably see a hybrid model in place with 20% full time WFH.

Losing the odd Starbucks as I mentioned already is no huge loss.

You can go around this point 100 times and it is always the same answer.

ELM327

markpb wrote: »

I still think it's far too early to declare it a positive. I think it's such a massive change that no-one could try to predict the impact it will have. There are so many inter-connecting things that no-one could guess what will happen.

For example, if lots of people leave Dublin entirely and spread out across the country, how do you serve anywhere with public transport? Do we increase car dependency which is bad for pollution, bad for the economy (cars are not produced here) and regressive because cars are expensive to run? Where do those people live, are we going to start building housing estates, shops and schools in towns and villages across the country? How long will that take? We already see rent pressures caused by people earning "Dublin" salaries renting in villages and pushing up the rent? Will people be happy to accept pay cuts or lower pay rises if they're no longer paying rent in cities? (This has happened in tech companies in America already).

If people stay in Dublin but mostly WFH, where does that leave the city centre? Who will go there? If the hospitality sector dies, where does that leave our tourism sector? Will shops start opening for a few hours in the evenings instead of all days because there won't be any office workers there during the day?

Car sales are not "bad for the economy". A lot of the economy is funded by regressive taxes on the motorist.
It could be argued that this will be good for the economy. People that used to buy coffees etc in Dublin now buy them in their local town. The coffee shop that serves them pays less rent than they would have to in dublin, therefore more jobs created, more profit made etc.

The public transport question is a bit of a misdirect all the same, a lot of folks that want WFH will have already established themselves in their career and be at middle management level or above. Most folks at that pay tier are unlikely to take PT anyway. I know I wouldnt dream of it.


There will not be pay cuts for moving location. People had WFH before this - including myself - and I didnt (and wouldnt) accept a pay cut for it.
Companies that try to introduce such measures will see churn.This is not the US, we don't have the CA vs the rest issue that they have.

markpb

ineedeuro wrote: »

Currently the public transport system is not fit for purpose
Little shops etc are getting pushed out of the city and bought out by coffee shops
None of the offices are talking about closing offices. Most are looking at a few days from home, few days in office. This is to get best of both World

As I already said, my wife's employer is closing half their office and telling staff they -must- work from home 4 days a week. There's a possibility that they're an outlier but many people in this thread have claimed it's inevitable.

You can go around this point 100 times and it is always the same answer.

It's only the same answer if you stick dogmatically to your belief that a massive shift to WFH is only a positive and there couldn't possibly be another side to it

ELM327 wrote: »

Car sales are not "bad for the economy". A lot of the economy is funded by regressive taxes on the motorist. It could be argued that this will be good for the economy. People that used to buy coffees etc in Dublin now buy them in their local town. The coffee shop that serves them pays less rent than they would have to in dublin, therefore more jobs created, more profit made etc.

Tax on car sales doesn't make an economy. It moves money from tax payers to the government, nothing more. Likewise, moving coffee shops from IFSC to Ballina doesn't improve the Irish economy at all, it just spreads out where that economic activity takes places.

The public transport question is a bit of a misdirect all the same, a lot of folks that want WFH will have already established themselves in their career and be at middle management level or above. Most folks at that pay tier are unlikely to take PT anyway. I know I wouldnt dream of it.

Your anecdote is just that. And it also assumes that only senior managers will want to WFH. And that all employers will continue to let their staff return to the office.

ineedeuro

markpb wrote: »

I still think it's far too early to declare it a positive. I think it's such a massive change that no-one could try to predict the impact it will have. There are so many inter-connecting things that no-one could guess what will happen.

For example, if lots of people leave Dublin entirely and spread out across the country, how do you serve anywhere with public transport? Do we increase car dependency which is bad for pollution, bad for the economy (cars are not produced here) and regressive because cars are expensive to run? Where do those people live, are we going to start building housing estates, shops and schools in towns and villages across the country? How long will that take? We already see rent pressures caused by people earning "Dublin" salaries renting in villages and pushing up the rent? Will people be happy to accept pay cuts or lower pay rises if they're no longer paying rent in cities? (This has happened in tech companies in America already).

If people stay in Dublin but mostly WFH, where does that leave the city centre? Who will go there? Will shops start opening for a few hours in the evenings instead of all days because there won't be any office workers there during the day? If the hospitality sector dies, where does that leave our tourism sector? The rural part might be fine as long as all the new housing developments don't ruin the thing that makes rural Ireland attractive. A city with little or no hospitality sector won't be attractive to the large cohort of people who go on city holidays.

Where does it leave the city centre?
Hopefully a place that families can visit. Not just a huge office block. Funky shops and nice places to visit at the weekend like most city centres should be.

Plus you will still have all the young people who want to live in a city centre, they will be the 60% + still working in offices plus going to colleges etc.

Why would the hospitality sector die? why would tourism die? do you think people come to Ireland to look at offices? if anything people flying in/out on business drives up the cost of hotels in Dublin which is famous for not having enough hotel rooms.

I am getting more & more baffled by the comments going on here. Do you really think a couple of people WFH for a few days is going to turn the city centre into a waste land?

ELM327

markpb wrote: »

As I already said, my wife's employer is closing half their office and telling staff they -must- work from home 4 days a week. There's a possibility that they're an outlier but many people in this thread have claimed it's inevitable.



It's only the same answer if you stick dogmatically to your belief that a massive shift to WFH is only a positive and there couldn't possibly be another side to it

Then move to a different employer? It's a free labor market.


I dont see how there's cost savings in a 4 day WFH 1 day office week though, unless they are proposing hot desking which is not really COVID friendly

ineedeuro

markpb wrote: »

As I already said, my wife's employer is closing half their office and telling staff they -must- work from home 4 days a week. There's a possibility that they're an outlier but many people in this thread have claimed it's inevitable.

They are still in 1 day a week and half the office still exists. So people will still work in office 5 days a week and everyone else will be at least 1 day a week

Even that is a step most companies wont push to

markpb wrote: »

It's only the same answer if you stick dogmatically to your belief that a massive shift to WFH is only a positive and there couldn't possibly be another side to it

Maybe if the other side wasn't extravagant claims about the city centre turning into a waste lands with no hotels or restaurants existing anymore.

If you read the thread this was discussed in detail. About people moving out to town/village would be quickly replaced with young people who want to live in city etc etc.

markpb

ELM327 wrote: »

I dont see how there's cost savings in a 4 day WFH 1 day office week though, unless they are proposing hot desking which is not really COVID friendly

They are moving to hot desking. My own company are doing the same as are plenty of others. Obviously this won't start until the government WFH guidance is changed.

ineedeuro wrote: »

They are still in 1 day a week and half the office still exists. So people will still work in office 5 days a week and everyone else will be at least 1 day a week

The reduced office means that there is space only for the team that are allocated to come in each day. Employees are -not- allowed to come in on other days.