Remote working - the future?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The same middle managers who pushed for a culture of “presentism” in the past- outdated dinosaurs the lot of them

WFH has demonstrated how unnecessary they really are.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

............ but if an employee makes a formal request for a WFH option, they've going to have to provide a very good reason for denying the request.

But surely a response like, yes of course you can WFH but you may be required on-site 20% of the time would be the norm/acceptable?

C3PO

Deleted User wrote: »

They may not have much choice but to rethink their policy on WFH when the Government brings in the planned legislation granting employees a statutory right to request remote working.

They won't be able to deny such requests so easily, without real justification.

I’ll believe that when I see it - an employer will have no problem coming up with reasons why they do not think WFH is a suitable option

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

But surely a response like, yes of course you can WFH but you may be required on-site 20% of the time would be the norm/acceptable?

It would be acceptable to me, yes.

I think its only a minority who would prefer WFH 100% without ever having to step inside a HQ ever again.

Just like I think its only minority who want the opposite - to be WFO fulltime.

We're dealing with minorities on both sides here.

Most people are very happy with a compromise based on flexibility.

C3PO

C3PO wrote: »

I’ll believe that when I see it - an employer will have no problem coming up with reasons why they do not think WFH is a suitable option

No doubt some will try. And some will put up with it.

But in the long run, will it be in their best interest to continue to refuse to be flexible if their best and brightest staff look to the companies who will offer them more flexible arrangements? Especially now they've had a taste of it.

WFO may very well suit younger 20-somethings with fewer commitments on their time outside their workplace / social life.

But the thirty somethings, those are the people that when the families come along, they no longer want to be stressed of their heads trying to get kids to creches in the morning at 7am, then dashing out the door on the dot of 5pm because the creche closes at 6:30pm and they're facing a 90 minute commute?

Those people are the ones with experience, and they're the ones who are going to say "feck this, I'm looking for something more flexible, and if you won't give it to me, somewhere else will. "

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

...............

But the thirty somethings, those are the people that when the families come along, they no longer want to be stressed of their heads trying to get kids to creches in the morning at 7am, then dashing out the door on the dot of 5pm because the creche closes at 6:30pm and they're facing a 90 minute commute?.............

Another extreme, most folk never had 90 minute commutes IMO.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

Another extreme, most folk never had 90 minute commutes IMO.

Yeah I'd agree, but only because people payed outrageous rents to be within a reasonable distance of work. Now people have more options and flexibility.

I think it's inevitable some folk will want 100% wfh and their employer might want a hybrid approach......... folk may need to switch jobs to get what they want.

Loads of folk successfully worked 100% WFH during the pandemic but their employers might well require them in the office a day a week or a couple of days a month....... there'll be cases where meeting in the middle doesn't suit one or both parties.

Likewise some folk wanting to return to the office 3 or 4 days per week may be despondent at the concept of 100% wfh going forward.

It'll all work itself out but it won't be painless for everyone.

B.A._Baracus

I would prefer hybrid. 2 maybe 3 days a week.

B.A._Baracus

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I would prefer hybrid. 2 maybe 3 days a week.

I think that's the way it will go. A lot of the discussion is fixated on 100% WFH but I reckon that will be the minority of roles.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

Another extreme, most folk never had 90 minute commutes IMO.

I have an 18km commute in Dublin from home-to-office and would always allow myself 90 minutes to do it, and even then, I'd sometimes be cutting it close.

When you're commuting up against time is very stressful, whether its a 30 minute commute or a 90 minute one - that is what's relevant.

Its not fun dragging small kids out of bed to go to a creche/minder only to collect them late in the day and only see them for a short time before they have to go to bed. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, and nearly had a nervous breakdown, doing it. Those days are long over for me, but I fully empathise with any parent trying to juggle a commute and kids.

Not to exclude the childfree, WFH also gives those who are childfree more time for any interests they want to pursue, too. I've seen so many comments from people since the pandemic began about how they finally have the time to exercise, cook from scratch, look after themselves better.

How can that be anything but a positive, even for employers? Surely less stressed, healthier employees are better employees?

ineedeuro

Augeo wrote: »

Another extreme, most folk never had 90 minute commutes IMO.

Really?
I worked on South side Dublin and used to live on Northside. The routes to get in was limited so it was leave at 6.30 and get in for 7. Or leave at 7.30 and get in anytime between 9 - 10. That was the massive distance of 15km according to google maps

Standard enough travel time in Dublin. Try travelling from one side of the M50 to the other during rush hour and see how long it takes.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I have an 18km commute in Dublin from home-to-office and would always allow myself 90 minutes to do it, and even then, I'd sometimes be cutting it close.

When you're commuting up against time is very stressful, whether its a 30 minute commute or a 90 minute one - that is what's relevant.

Its not fun dragging small kids out of bed to go to a creche/minder only to collect them late in the day and only see them for a short time before they have to go to bed. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, and nearly had a nervous breakdown, doing it. Those days are long over for me, but I fully empathise with any parent trying to juggle a commute and kids.

Not to exclude the childfree, WFH also gives those who are childfree more time for any interests they want to pursue, too. I've seen so many comments from people since the pandemic began about how they finally have the time to exercise, cook from scratch, look after themselves better.

How can that be anything but a positive, even for employers? Surely less stressed, healthier employees are better employees?

I'm fully aware of the benefits and pitfalls of WFH, I just stated that most folk never had 90 minute commutes.

You are now moving from ".they're facing a 90 minute commute" to the bolded piece in response

Kids will still have to be dropped to creche etc before the first con call of the day going forward........ WFH going forward won't be like WFH during a pandemic with kids on the knee etc as creche was closed.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where have you been looking that costs €600 per month? You've posted you live in Galway, here are just some examples where it costs much less then that.

Galway:

Bank of Ireland cowork space – free.

Galway Technology Centre – €165pm.

Portershed – €30 per day, €220pm.

Superpixel Labs – monthly €250.

(https://www.thinkbusiness.ie/articles/coworking-spaces-in-ireland/)

Bank of Ireland cowork space – free.
Closed. And as you can imagine, a "free" service from a bank comes with a lot of strings attached.

Galway Technology Centre – €165pm.
Exists to support/ incubate startups and growing businesses. They aren't going to sign up an existing business or an individualnon-entrepreneur. Also not within 2km of my home.

Portershed – €30 per day, €220pm.
That's for a hot desk in a noisy open plan area. No external monitor (unless you carry it in each day, so not ergonomic. No on site storage. Comes with pressure to get involved in their community (and that's not what my manager wants me to spend time doing).

Superpixel Labs – closed long, long ago.


If you want up to date prices - look on www.dafte.ie

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

Really?
I worked on South side Dublin and used to live on Northside. The routes to get in was limited so it was leave at 6.30 and get in for 7. Or leave at 7.30 and get in anytime between 9 - 10. That was the massive distance of 15km according to google maps

Standard enough travel time in Dublin. Try travelling from one side of the M50 to the other during rush hour and see how long it takes.

I said most folk, are we only taking about folk working in Dublin now?
I'm well aware of Dublin traffic etc etc thank you very much, no need for the nonsense I've bolded, cheers.

90 mins commutes are not standard enough for Dublin to be fair.

C3PO

Something that has been completely ignored in this thread is whether people have a suitable working environment at home. Once the pandemic is over, employers will be obliged to ensure that their staff are working in suitable conditions. They will need to inspect and clear these from a health and safety perspective. Proper desk and suitable chair, secure, segregated area etc etc. How many people will have these facilities in their homes?

C3PO

C3PO wrote: »

................. Once the pandemic is over,.............

Indeed, many folk seem oblivious to the quite obvious fact that the pandemic was an emergency situation so many things were curtailed and permitted. Going forward there will be a return to normal and that doesn't include WFH from the table with the kids watching cartoons from the sofa a few feet away.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Bank of Ireland cowork space – free.
Closed. And as you can imagine, a "free" service from a bank comes with a lot of strings attached.

Galway Technology Centre – €165pm.
Exists to support/ incubate startups and growing businesses. They aren't going to sign up an existing business or an individual non-entrepreneur. Also not within 2km of my home.

Portershed – €30 per day, €220pm.
That's for a hot desk in a noisy open plan area. No external monitor (unless you carry it in each day, so not ergonomic. No on site storage. Comes with pressure to get involved in their community (and that's not what my manager wants me to spend time doing).

Superpixel Labs – closed long, long ago.


If you want up to date prices - look on www.dafte.ie

Sigh. Yet again, you're offered solutions, and all you look for is more problems. There will be other workspaces.

Also not within 2km of your home?!? That's part of your criteria now?

ineedeuro

Augeo wrote: »

I said most folk, are we only taking about folk working in Dublin now?
I'm well aware of Dublin traffic etc etc thank you very much, no need for the nonsense I've bolded, cheers.

90 mins commutes are not standard enough for Dublin to be fair.

Dublin is the capital and one of the highest concentrations of staff in ireland, so yes we are talking about Dublin.

If one City is going to gain the most out of WFM it is Dublin which has a public transport system not able to cater and the road system which cannot either.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sigh. Yet again, you're offered solutions, and all you look for is more problems. There will be other workspaces.

Also not within 2km of your home?!? That's part of your criteria now?

I'm very well well aware of the range of workspaces, and researched them extensively.

Your "solutions", frankly, aren't.

The 2km was the government's criteria, not mine.

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

Dublin is the capital and one of the highest concentrations of staff in ireland, so yes we are talking about Dublin.................

You might be but I'm sure there are plenty folk interested in WFH etc who don't live or work in Dublin tbh.
If you think most folk working in Dublin had a 90 min commute time you are off your tree btw.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The 2km was the government's criteria, not mine.

That was over a year ago? I thought this discussion was about the future.

chattering

Even small organisations can become truly globalised with people working from home from all around the world. Provided job-holder rarely needed in headquarters of course.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

I'm fully aware of the benefits and pitfalls of WFH, I just stated that most folk never had 90 minute commutes.

You are now moving from ".they're facing a 90 minute commute" to the bolded piece in response

Kids will still have to be dropped to creche etc before the first con call of the day going forward........ WFH going forward won't be like WFH during a pandemic with kids on the knee etc as creche was closed.

Yes they will but it will make a huge difference if you can drop your children off at school or childcare and be back at your workspace in your own home in 10/15 minutes.

Most parents won't typically choose to put their kids in schools or childcare which is much further away then that!

ineedeuro

Augeo wrote: »

You might be but I'm sure there are plenty folk interested in WFH etc who don't live or work in Dublin tbh.
If you think most folk working in Dublin had a 90 min commute time you are off your tree btw.

I don't get your point, I was using Dublin as an example, no idea why that is a problem?
Its a chat about WFH, why so aggressive?

The average is 1 hour. So who is "off your tree"?
https://www.thejournal.ie/what-are-the-average-commute-times-in-europe-5005548-Feb2020/#:~:text=PEOPLE%20IN%20DUBLIN%20have%20the%20fifth%20longest%20average%20commuting%20time,the%20rest%20of%20the%20country.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes they will but it will make a huge difference if you can drop your children off at school or childcare and be back at your workspace in your own home in 10/15 minutes.

Most parents won't typically choose to put their kids in schools or childcare which is much further away then that!

Yes, that's all very obvious, again I just stated that most folk never had 90 minute commutes (which is apparently untrue for most of folk working in Dublin, which is bullsh1t IMO)

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

I don't get your point, I was using Dublin as an example, no idea why that is a problem?
Its a chat about WFH, why so aggressive?

The average is 1 hour. So who is "off your tree"?
https://www.thejournal.ie/what-are-the-average-commute-times-in-europe-5005548-Feb2020/#:~:text=PEOPLE%20IN%20DUBLIN%20have%20the%20fifth%20longest%20average%20commuting%20time,the%20rest%20of%20the%20country.

If the average is an hour most folk can't be doing 90 mins
So, it seems you are off your tree if you think most folk were spending 90 mins commuting when the average was under an hour.

ineedeuro

Deleted User wrote: »

That was over a year ago? I thought this discussion was about the future.

With a certain poster it is just a list of problems. Best to ignore at this stage because it is gone past ridiculous at this stage

Poll results so far, 46% opt for ..........Hybrid e.g. going to office twice per week

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'm very well well aware of the range of workspaces, and researched them extensively.

Your "solutions", frankly, aren't.

The 2km was the government's criteria, not mine.

And you, frankly, aren't interested in finding any solutions. Only problems.

The only thing you're interested in, is nothing less than a full time return to the office.

Well, good luck with that.