Black people Racism in Workplace in Ireland

Chips Lovell

KyussB wrote: »

In the EU, only Finland/Luxembourg have a higher prevalence of perceived racism against black people, than Ireland:
https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2019-being-black-in-the-eu-summary_en.pdf

That looks pretty bad for Ireland. This is the kind of thing you likely wouldn't know much about, unless you're from said ethnicity.

Well I think if we've learned anything from this thread, is that it's actually the black people themselves who are to blame, either by thinking something is racial harassment when it isn't or by not getting a better education (which, for some reason, magically insulates you from racial harassment).

Bobblehats

KyussB wrote: »

In the EU, only Finland/Luxembourg have a higher prevalence of perceived racism against black people, than Ireland:
https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2019-being-black-in-the-eu-summary_en.pdf

That looks pretty bad for Ireland. This is the kind of thing you likely wouldn't know much about, unless you're from said ethnicity.

I don’t know how it looks. Suggests a sheer incompatibility Black Fin aren’t two words that sit too well together anyhow, even at a glance it’s a strange juxtaposition that may lead to a double take?! You think of their ethnicity / culture, and African just doesn’t factor in there. Not surprised that we’re up there at all

beerguts

We have had this thread countless times over the last several years and it always pans our the same way with the majority against this victimhood obsession in the media. We cannot win against this nonsense if we continue taking the bait by engaging with them. If you want to take a stand against this the best thing we all could do is be members of our local school management boards and try and prevent this being brought into our schools.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

It’s fairly obvious that we put structures, programmes and policies in place that are designed to ensure a good degree of equal opportunity and access and I think we genuinely want to be an inclusive society.

My concern is if we dismiss the statistics and people's experiences because they aren’t fitting with our experiences, or because they’re not comfortable facts, then we don’t solve an issue and it just grows.

There are stats that show an issue with employment. We need to figure out why and we need to discuss what’s going on in communities that are part of the broader Irish community.

We’ve a history of creating poverty traps, without understanding why they’re happening and then having to resolve them after damage has been ingrained.

We also have a history of being unable to see big social problems and scandals that are sitting in plain sight.

My only point really is we need to listen and figure out what’s going on.

Services and structures being there isn’t always the problem. People can fall though the cracks. Systems can be hard to navigate. There can be cultural challenges where people don’t approach systems or opportunities that they feel aren’t open to them, even if they are.

You’re also taking about a hugely diverse slice of society, comprising multiple cultures, nationalities of origin, languages, educational opportunities and skill sets.

Just start a conversation and figure it out.

If we get this right, we all benefit as a society. If we get it wrong and don’t listen we create solutions for problems we don’t have and don’t create solutions for the ones we do.

It’s also a process that needs to be driven by communities themselves too in terms of finding opportunities and figuring out how to interact with systems and so on.

The racism issue can’t just be ignored either. My feeling on it is that there’s an issue with our usual salt of the earth scumbags who’d attack anyone and everyone and have just found an outlet in racism to go along with their long established thuggery and that inflaming things. That’s a huge issue here. We’ve all been either a focus of it or have seen someone being given abuse. It’s sometimes racist and it can be extremely nasty.

I’ve seen a few nasty incidents on the Red Line Luas and sound the north inner city in Dublin in recent years, and they’re part of a wider issue with intimidation and generally nasty behaviour.

That’s certainly been my observation of where most of the casual nasty stuff is coming from.

A bit of a less tolerant approach to policing of that kind of stuff would help a lot and across the board.

Your also getting bleed over online and so on too. That incident with the mixed race family who were run out of the country after doing that supermarket ad was absolutely shocking and unacceptable, yet it happened. We can’t just ignore some of that fringe stuff. It’s been really quite serious at times.

The other issue is just about integration and meeting people. We’re good at it usually and we need to maintain that openness as things get more diverse. It’s about extending the chat and the banter too.

We’re not the US and we don’t have a 300+ year history of horrendous race relations that included slavery.

We do have an understanding of being the underdog and what that can mean and we’ve a blank canvas and we should be doing our own thing - we should be capable of doing it better and that’s going both ways - it needs an effort to connect people up.

Gatling

Suppose when you come to a new country telling lies it becomes easy to only ever to be a victim of something ,
Black person gets arrested for committing crime it's the because the gardai are racist ,one gets caught shoplifting in a shop it's because of racial profiling , someone doesn't get a job it's because the business is racist , don't get social housing despite not being 10+ years on the housing list oh it's because the local authorities are racists ,

It's never ending

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Some of our services, notably housing related stuff, are just universally crap. I think perhaps bringing people into our moaning about everything threads might help understanding of how, yes, you really can wait 4 years for a cataract operation..

And yup, the Guards really are that laid back about actually following up on relatively serious crimes…

Overheal

biko wrote: »

Whenever I hear these calls that Ireland is so racist I think of the Mayor of Portlaoise.

Even 15 years ago a Nigerian refugee, Rotimi Adebari, became mayor of a town of 20 thousand people, almost all white.
No-one cared then or now.

That's how racist Ireland is.

That’s just tokenism. Not actually a proof that Ireland doesn’t harbor problematic racism.

biko

If a black person goes for a job interview and don't get the job, how likely is he to think it's his skin colour that was the problem and not that there were 200 applicants and 20 interviewed, and someone else got the job?

If I hire people and reject 99 of 100, will I have to send a special letter to the 25 minority applicants "it's not because you're black/Chinese/Brazilian/etc" so they don't go to the press?

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

It's never ending

This is very true. It's almost comical how quickly some black people will pull the racism card. I actually seen it pulled by a woman who skipped a queue in a shop, and when it was pointed out there was a queue, everyone was a racist all of a sudden (both staff and customers alike).

The bar for what is a racist has been lowered so much that everyone's a racist now. Don't like a particular black person, and have reasonable points and a valid argument as to why? YOU RACIST!

We have a lord mayor who cries racist at every opportunity. Yet, she is lord mayor. It's Father Ted stuff.

biko

Overheal wrote: »

That’s just tokenism. Not actually a proof that Ireland doesn’t harbor problematic racism.

Ireland chose a black mayor as a token? That's racist dude.

Overheal

biko wrote: »

Ireland chose a black mayor as a token? That's racist dude.

You pointing to that Mayor like it proves Ireland isn’t racist is the tokenism.

If you want to disprove racism I wouldn’t make tokens out of one or two black people. Really undermines your argument.

biko

It'll be interesting to follow young Boni Odoemene's career and see if he gets a regular job, or if he moves on to become some NGO spokesperson and make a living around Irish Racism.

ZeroThreat

Deleted User wrote: »

This is very true. It's almost comical how quickly some black people will pull the racism card. I actually seen it pulled by a woman who skipped a queue in a shop, and when it was pointed out there was a queue, everyone was a racist all of a sudden (both staff and customers alike).

The bar for what is a racist has been lowered so much that everyone's a racist now. Don't like a particular black person, and have reasonable points and a valid argument as to why? YOU RACIST!

We have a lord mayor who cries racist at every opportunity. Yet, she is lord mayor. It's Father Ted stuff.

Exactly, I was doing an impersonation of a chinese person not too long ago.

Then I turned around to see the lord mayor and her family watching through my window like a bunch of voyeurs!

ClosedAccountFuzzy

I think in some public figures’ cases the extreme racism they’re getting is mostly originating online. That’s a huge issue with social media pile ons and just vicious behaviour on certain platforms.

You’ve also had a few nasty groups spin up online that have little or no support in reality beyond their online bubbles - echo chambers and lots of international far right stuff feeding that particular monster.

I’m not sure some of that’s an exclusively Irish issue, but rather an online problem.

There’s all element of the odd **** who’s only brave behind an online persona too.

I just think sometimes platforms like Twitter can be cesspools. Even though I tend to have nice interactions on it myself, if you are a public figure and get attention it can often turn very aggressive and weird.

I just see a few very well intentioned people being torn apart by racist or otherwise nasty trolls and they really need to step away from the keyboard as they’re expending huge energy basically fighting a wall of vicious anonymous bile. I don’t know how they do it. They should just block.

WrenBoy

I think having a default position that Ireland is racist and then having to disprove it is the issue.

Former Former Former

KyussB wrote: »

In the EU, only Finland/Luxembourg have a higher prevalence of perceived racism against black people, than Ireland:
https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2019-being-black-in-the-eu-summary_en.pdf

That looks pretty bad for Ireland. This is the kind of thing you likely wouldn't know much about, unless you're from said ethnicity.

It's not the EU, it's 12 countries of the 28, and you could equally look at the exat same report and conclude that Ireland is one of the better countries surveyed.

is_that_so

Overheal wrote: »

That’s just tokenism. Not actually a proof that Ireland doesn’t harbor problematic racism.

Nor is it proof that it does. In the workplace it will ultimately come down to appropriate policies.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

You pointing to that Mayor like it proves Ireland isn’t racist is the tokenism.

Is Varadker not of Indian descent, also?

I don't think it demonstrates anything about racism in Ireland, though. It demonstrates they're treated like anyone else.


Racism has to have a malicious intent. People will label you racist nowadays for just mentioning a race. For example, news deliberately leaving out descriptions that a person was a traveller, or black, or asian or whatever.

If I mention a new chap started work with me, and mention he's black, it's not racism. It's a descriptor. But many people (on the internet, I've never come across it in real life) would label you a massive racist for even mentioning that.


Here's a joke made in stand up comedy (takes about 30 secs, from 5:15 to 5:45)

https://youtu.be/4Xp4z5qlyqs?t=313


You could argue that's a very borderline joke.. but is that racist? I don't think so. It's not malicious and the same comedian will make a joke about you for being overweight, a woman, white, etc. doesn't mean there's any actual malice coming with it.

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

What?

I said: Anyway, how could there be racism against black people in the workplace when we don't have any black people in the workplace?

We've no black people in my workplace for sure. There's a few delivery drivers coming in and out, and one guy who cleans the toilets after hours, but none on staff.

So how can we be accused of being racist in the workplace when there are no black people there?

It's outrageous, Joe.

is_that_so

FYI on the demographic breakdown from the 2016 census.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8e/

Someone I know had to do sensitivity training. Company based in Dublin but the trainer was a black guy from and in London. He got her name wrong. Later during the part about how it's racist to get someone's name wrong he got her name wrong again but differently.

The trouble is that perception has replaced facts. Surveys on a subjective answer to a subjective situation becomes fact.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/people-in-ireland-among-most-likely-in-europe-to-be-stopped-by-police-1.4574024

I mean there ya go. Sub-Saharan Africans are far less likely to be stopped by the Gardai in Ireland. Of course that group also find the Gardai less likely to be respectful. The perception/opinion bit will be the bit that's pushed by the race-baiters, not that fact they're far less likely to be stopped.

kravmaga

Jequ0n wrote: »

Why does this only apply to black people? Why not Asian etc as well? Are black people the only ones being discriminated against?

Good point, well said, I know for a fact since Covid 19 broke out last year the Asian community all over the EU have had a higher amount of racist incidents.

I think the OP is over stating the issue not backed up by facts and figures.

Id like to see the stats/figures whereby Irish people are being racist towards black people only in the Irish workforce.

A link here or there does not cut it, where are the figures that racism is on the increase towards black people in the workforce.

The CSO stats show that most black people in Ireland are un-employed or on training courses for years on end funded by the Irish taxpayer.

Maybe a conversation on the reason why 50% of Irish people do not want black people coming here to Ireland.?

https://extra.ie/2018/11/07/business/irish/unemployment-rate-higher-african-migrants

https://extra.ie/2020/07/29/news/irish-news/irish-people-black-people-ireland-survey

kravmaga

kravmaga wrote: »

A link here or there does not cut it, where are the figures that racism is on the increase towards black people in the workforce.

Not just that. How are such claims investigated, and confirmed as being racist, and if there is a group investigating, are they impartial?

It seems like a lot of the claims about racism come from NGO's or activists, who have an interest in promoting that racism exists, since it'll mean more funding or recognition for them.

kravmaga

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I said: Anyway, how could there be racism against black people in the workplace when we don't have any black people in the workplace?

We've no black people in my workplace for sure. There's a few delivery drivers coming in and out, and one guy who cleans the toilets after hours, but none on staff.

So how can we be accused of being racist in the workplace when there are no black people there?

It's outrageous, Joe.

Agreed, where I work( civil servant) there is not one black person employed. So not sure what the stats are but there is 100% no racism going on in my work place against black people as there are none in fact employed.

kildare lad

hawley wrote: »

Boni Odoemene, co-founder of Black and Irish, says while the demonstrations highlighted the issue of racism in Ireland, he believes there is still a long way to go.

"There has been somewhat change in the country, in regards to mainstream discourse, and highlighting the issues that are faced by many black and mixed race people in Ireland," he said.

"One year one, there is still a lot of work to be done.

"Overall there has been a lot more awareness around the issues around race and racism in Ireland, but there is still a lot of work to be done as we move forward as a country."

https://www.q102.ie/news/q102-news/more-work-needed-to-address-racism-in-ireland/

We need to have a conversation around racism in Ireland. It was highlighted earlier in the week on the Claire Byrne. The problem doesn't seem to be getting any better. There is a massive problem with unemployment in the black community. People coming here as asylum seekers need to be supported in education with regard to language skills and suitable working skills. A lot of Irish people don't want to discuss this issue, but it has been shown that there is the problem with racism is worsening here.

Has Ireland become the international social services now. The taxpayer must now , fork out for their house, clothes , kids , food , train and find jobs for people who arrive here . In reality many African families are far better off than most Irish family's . The Africans that are in my local football club all have 5 or 6 kids in each family, how can they afford to have that many kids as I don't know any Irish families that have that much . The truth is they're better off not working as they receive more money from the social than they would working . In reality many only came here due to are extremely generous welfare system and had no intention of working

ramirodelojo

hawley wrote: »

Boni Odoemene, co-founder of Black and Irish, says while the demonstrations highlighted the issue of racism in Ireland, he believes there is still a long way to go.

"There has been somewhat change in the country, in regards to mainstream discourse, and highlighting the issues that are faced by many black and mixed race people in Ireland," he said.

"One year one, there is still a lot of work to be done.

"Overall there has been a lot more awareness around the issues around race and racism in Ireland, but there is still a lot of work to be done as we move forward as a country."



We need to have a conversation around racism in Ireland. It was highlighted earlier in the week on the Claire Byrne. The problem doesn't seem to be getting any better. There is a massive problem with unemployment in the black community. People coming here as asylum seekers need to be supported in education with regard to language skills and suitable working skills. A lot of Irish people don't want to discuss this issue, but it has been shown that there is the problem with racism is worsening here.

the truth would think that racism in these times should not continue to be a form of aggression against any person.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone I know had to do sensitivity training. Company based in Dublin but the trainer was a black guy from and in London. He got her name wrong. Later during the part about how it's racist to get someone's name wrong he got her name wrong again but differently.

The outrage over the name thing I find quite baffling. Even in Ireland we struggle with some of our own names anyway. Some people just cannot hear them or lock in their heads in some off-kilter way. HR courses that force people into being hypersensitive do not help matters either.

ramirodelojo

ramirodelojo wrote: »

the truth would think that racism in these times should not continue to be a form of aggression against any person.

Except that it is condemned. It's socially unacceptable. Anyone displaying/expressing racist sentiments in the workplace or elsewhere would usually face censure from others.

All the same, how would you expect to stop people being racist? (beyond the social norms/conditioning that already exists, and has existed for decades)

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Some people really struggle with names. The only time in as really pissed off was in the USA.

I’ve an Irish first name and one of my colleagues just said:

“OMG! Why is it spelled that way if it’s not even said that way. That’s so hard! I’m just going to call you Sam.” (Which isn’t even remotely like my name.)

I just ignored her anytime she called me Sam.

I don’t mind people getting a pronunciation wrong, but to just make absolutely no effort whatsoever or to make a joke out of someone’s name is pretty grim.

kravmaga

kravmaga wrote: »

Agreed, where I work( civil servant) there is not one black person employed. So not sure what the stats are but there is 100% no racism going on in my work place against black people as there are none in fact employed.

We definitely should try and make the civil service more representative. By firing some existing dead wood to begin with.