'Alarming' rise in False Widow spiders in Ireland

10-10-20

I have arachnophobia.
I really shouldn't be here...

kifi

Spray adhesive (ie the adhesive that comes in a can) kills them quickly.

Last year the eaves of my house were littered with them. 2 cans of spray adhesive not only killed them, but not a sign of them this year!!! It must kill the eggs too

Tyrone212

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

First time I saw one was 2017 in my mobile home, which is in a field in the west of Ireland right beside the Atlantic. Found them there regularly there since then, they have no problem surviving the winter in an unheated mobile. I’ve only seen one in my house (which is in a mid-sized town), and that was a couple of weeks ago.

Right on the coast doesn't really get harsh frosts or as frequent of frosts so they have better chance there than 20 miles inland. Maybe a 2010 style winter could give them a good thumping.

buried

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Right on the coast doesn't really get harsh frosts or as frequent of frosts so they have better chance there than 20 miles inland. Maybe a 2010 style winter could give them a good thumping.

Interesting, That bio map another poster put up a few pages back shows most of the few reports put into it all close to coastal regions of the island. Especially high density reports, the few ones inland look like urban towns.

dmc17

FTA69

Got bitten by one on the back of the hand in London in 2012 (remember it because the Olympics were on). Hand swelled up to twice it’s normal size and it felt the skin as about to explode, couldn’t even move my fingers. Had to spend two days in a hospital being fed antibiotics via drip and get a load of injections etc; one of my my fingers was so swollen they thought they’d have to cut it open. Absolutely f*cking terrifying.

I was in a house share a few years later and some hippy muppet was marvelling over them in the kitchen til I got the hairspray and lighter out. Kill on sight.

Cilldara_2000

sky12345 wrote: »

I think a lot of people misunderstand the risk of the false widow, as evidenced by a lot of the 'humourous' comments on the thread.

The false widow is now highly prevalent in Ireland. It's a new species so many people will have not grown up with it and won't know what they are seeing when they look at it. It tends to be light phobic, meaning that many people won't see them as they only come out late at night.

They can be highly mobile and very large. If you are in certain suburbs in Dublin and shine a torch up at your house around 2am you are quite likely to see them crawling over your house. They don't just stay in their webs. They will be along your windowsills and your sheds. They will be in cracks in your walls. If you have bins with gaps in them where the handles are, they are likely to be in there as well. I have seen quite a few of them on gates and in various parts of cars.

They are fairly slow when it's cold, but from what I've seen they can be fast when it's warm. They live for years longer than most native spiders, are potentially very poisonous, are covered in antibiotic resistant bacteria and have large numbers of children (up to 200 in each egg sac- so if you see one, that one can produce another 200). They can survive temperatures of up to -8, and can survive for a long time on little food and water.

Don't go near them with bare hands and don't put your hands into their webs. You probably won't recognize their webs at first, but when you see a few of them around your house you will know after a while what you are looking at.

Lets not overstate the risk either:

Spiders have evolved the amazing ability to make very quick informed "decisions" as to when and how much venom to inject. With this in mind, we can rest assured that it does not go about its daily business wanting to inflict bites on us humans; it would much rather hide and save its precious venom for tasty bugs.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2021/0526/1223978-noble-false-widow-spider/

dmc17

FTA69 wrote: »

Got bitten by one on the back of the hand in London in 2012 (remember it because the Olympics were on). Hand swelled up to twice it’s normal size and it felt the skin as about to explode, couldn’t even move my fingers. Had to spend two days in a hospital being fed antibiotics via drip and get a load of injections etc; one of my my fingers was so swollen they thought they’d have to cut it open. Absolutely f*cking terrifying.

I was in a house share a few years later and some hippy muppet was marvelling over them in the kitchen til I got the hairspray and lighter out. Kill on sight.

And what did you go with the spider?

appledrop

Can I just say I started reading this thread all worried by the title, but actually some of the posts have given me a great laugh so I'm over my fear of false widow spider.

Thanks!

Geuze

sky12345 wrote: »

If you read the peer-reviewed literature I think that the understanding of them is evolving to realise that they are more dangerous than people originally understood. While overemphasing risk is bad, so is downplaying risk.

While John Dunbar and colleagues wrote the brainstorm article for a popular audience, they also note in a recent peer-reviewed publication that here is no doubt that "S nobilis (with Latrodectus tredecimguttatus) is one of the most dangerous spiders in Western Europe."

The title of the article has me thinking I should change my behaviour in the garden, and store my gloves differently:

Bites by the noble false widow spider Steatoda nobilis can induce Latrodectus-like symptoms and vector-borne bacterial infections with implications for public health: a case series


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15563650.2021.1928165?journalCode=ictx20

Hamsterchops

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Alarming' rise in False Widow spiders in Ireland.

False widow is it, like not really a widow but a false widow, presumably meaning the husband spider is still alive :eek:

Geuze

sky12345 wrote: »

If you read the peer-reviewed literature I think that the understanding of them is evolving to realise that they are more dangerous than people originally understood. While overemphasing risk is bad, so is downplaying risk.

While John Dunbar and colleagues wrote the brainstorm article for a popular audience, they also note in a recent peer-reviewed publication that here is no doubt that "S nobilis (with Latrodectus tredecimguttatus) is one of the most dangerous spiders in Western Europe."

Did you read the table of case histories in the article published this week?

Many of the cases occur in bed. I wonder how are the spiders in the bedroom?


"The victim was changing the battery of a smoke alarm. When she opened it up, a spider fell out and dropped down the back of her top. While trying to remove it, the spider was slightly squashed and bit her in the region of the armpit."


This poor lad in Wexford:

"While in bed, the victim woke to sharp pains in four different locations on the posterior compartment of his right shoulder and elbow. A spider was found squashed under the blanket near the pillow. Within a minute, pain localised to the bite sites was described as intense (8/10), and blisters began to develop at the bite sites. Intense swelling and erythema were observed radiating from the bite sites. The pain further progressed and radiated through the whole arm. The victim also experienced tightness around the elbow region when bending his arm. The victim began perspiring in the arm and shoulder (particularly inner arm) regions. The overall pain was described as excruciating by the victim. The victim visited the Accident & Emergency department where he was given steroids and morphine intravenously which did not reduce the pain."

Geuze

Stihl waters wrote: »

Has the question been asked if they're actually harmful to our native spiders and do they represent a threat to other native species, I could probably google it but I've this written now so I'll just post it here

YES.

Geuze

Jaysus, this poor woman from Waterford:


"While walking across her sitting room, the victim felt a sharp pain in her lower left leg. Whilst inspecting the cause of the pain, she found a spider trapped in the leg of her trousers. As the victim rolled up her trousers, she observed a spider which continued to run farther up her leg. Each time she tried to catch it, she was bitten, three times in total. Approximately 1-minute post bite the victim felt an intense sharp pain (8/10). The pain was described as similar to boiling water being poured onto her skin in the affected area. Erythema radiated extensively from the epicentre of the bite sites. After approximately one hour, swelling and large blisters developed at the bite sites. The next morning (12 h post bite) the victim drew a blue line around the erythema (Figure 4(A)) and visited a general practitioner for a medical examination. The victim’s blood pressure was recorded as low (90/50) and she was prescribed desloratadine and flucloxacilline. Erythema spread further and was later marked again with a second blue line. Edema of the leg was evident after three days. On the fourth night the victim visited an out-of-hour clinic and was prescribed antibiotic creams. On the sixth day the victim was admitted to the Accident & Emergency department with cellulitis (Figure 4(B)). The erythema continued to spread, blistering and swelling of the full lower leg between the knee and ankle had intensified. The victim described the pain level as (10/10). Scattered fluid filled blisters formed and fused and the colouration of the leg was reddish purple. The victim spent six nights in hospital where she was administered penicillin and flucloxacilline intravenously. The victim was prescribed oxycodone for two weeks for pain relief and returned home with a 10-day course of oral flucloxacilline. The victim developed secondary dermatitis (Figure 4(C,D)) and was admitted to hospital a further two times over the following two months and remained on antibiotic treatment. On day 73 post bite, the victim received a decreasing course of Prednisone. On day 80 (1 week later) the victim’s condition began to improve and by day 95 she had fully recovered and only some visible marks remained (Figure 4(E))."

SouthWesterly

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Maybe you should consider Africa. You won't have time to think about them with all the lions and hyenas outside your door.

I’d rather face a lion!

Think a news paper article like this comes out every year?

Anyway this video is about as educational as you need:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RtXsXpvSSw&ab_channel=TCDAlumni

Shout out for Collie Ennis in the video and his generally brilliant podcast "The Critter Shed" which I love very much.

Gregor Samsa

sky12345 wrote: »

While John Dunbar and colleagues wrote the brainstorm article for a popular audience, they also note in a recent peer-reviewed publication that here is no doubt that "S nobilis (with Latrodectus tredecimguttatus) is one of the most dangerous spiders in Western Europe."

Yeah but "most dangerous" is relative. There's not very many dangerous spiders in Europe, and even the ones that are don't rank with the really dangerous spiders in other parts of the world. Like, the "most dangerous" animal in Ireland as a whole is the cow. More people (in Ireland or Europe) will die or be very ill from bee stings than spider bites - and even at that the numbers are minuscule. Yet we generally don't worry about coming into contact with cows and bees.

Hamsterchops

Can I just ask, how likely would it be to come face to face with one of these nasty little fellas? I mean, are they still very rarely found in Ireland or?

JimmyVik

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Well, aren't I glad I read this article in bed

My oh wouldnt sleep in the bed for days when one of the little sh!ts crawled out from under the covers one night.

The Nal

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Can I just ask, how likely would it be to come face to face with one of these nasty little fellas? I mean, are they still very rarely found in Ireland or?

Found half a dozen in my shed last week, one huge one and load of egg nests.

Peppermint oil works as a deterrent. Dealz are selling it at the moment.

JimmyVik

The Nal wrote: »

Found half a dozen in my shed last week, one huge one and load of egg nests.

Peppermint oil works as a deterrent. Dealz are selling it at the moment.

The only thing to stop the invasion of these things is ... Mouse traps

I have seen a few inside the house in the last few weeks. So thanks to this thread, I put out one of those sticky spider traps last night at the side of the bed.
And this morning there was one great big false widow in it. Im going to leave the trap there for a week or two and put a few more down in the bedroom and see what happens.
This is war. Anyone got John Goodmans number.

So I just took a walk around outside the house. Looking up at the widows, right in the edge above the window I saw two of them. Pretty sure there are more.
More scary though is that each window has about 5 egg sacs stuck in tightly at the top.

Day Lewin

sky12345 wrote: »

I think a lot of people misunderstand the risk of the false widow, as evidenced by a lot of the 'humourous' comments on the thread.

The false widow is now highly prevalent in Ireland. It's a new species so many people will have not grown up with it and won't know what they are seeing when they look at it. It tends to be light phobic, meaning that many people won't see them as they only come out late at night.

They can be highly mobile and very large. If you are in certain suburbs in Dublin and shine a torch up at your house around 2am you are quite likely to see them crawling over your house. They don't just stay in their webs. They will be along your windowsills and your sheds. They will be in cracks in your walls. If you have bins with gaps in them where the handles are, they are likely to be in there as well. I have seen quite a few of them on gates and in various parts of cars.

They are fairly slow when it's cold, but from what I've seen they can be fast when it's warm. They live for years longer than most native spiders, are potentially very poisonous, are covered in antibiotic resistant bacteria and have large numbers of children (up to 200 in each egg sac- so if you see one, that one can produce another 200). They can survive temperatures of up to -8, and can survive for a long time on little food and water.

Don't go near them with bare hands and don't put your hands into their webs. You probably won't recognize their webs at first, but when you see a few of them around your house you will know after a while what you are looking at.

Frippin screaming abdabs.
I plan to emigrate, maybe to some airborne Zeppelin free of all creepy crawlies.

archfi

sky12345 wrote: »

Noble False Widow refers to the fact that they look like black widows. Their Latin name, translated into English, basically means 'King of Pain', which should tell you enough.

Sweet sufferin Jebus :eek:

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Shout out for Collie Ennis in the video and his generally brilliant podcast "The Critter Shed" which I love very much.

Oh I just spotted that Ray D'Arcy had Collie on this week too, because of the news reports this year on their increase:

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21959315

Hamsterchops

The Nal wrote: »

Found half a dozen in my shed last week, one huge one and load of egg nests.

Peppermint oil works as a deterrent. Dealz are selling it at the moment.

Holy crap, sounds like they've taken over from the common variety of house spider :eek:

JimmyVik

If you have ever seen this type of wispy web in your house, they are in your bed
And if you have even seen little egg sacs stuck to the top of the outside of your windows .. .. They will be in your bed when you open your windows.

loyatemu

sky12345 wrote: »

Noble False Widow refers to the fact that they look like black widows. Their Latin name, translated into English, basically means 'King of Pain', which should tell you enough.

the scientist who named them was a Police fan, that's all

you seem to have logged back onto Boards after 5 years to post exclusively about how dangerous these guys are - are you actually a spider?

we've had them around the house for years here (Wicklow which seems to be where they first got hold) - they're mostly pretty reclusive, the panic is overblown.

Cilldara_2000

JimmyVik wrote: »

If you have ever seen this type of wispy web in your house, they are in your bed
And if you have even seen little egg sacs stuck to the top of the outside of your windows .. .. They will be in your bed when you open your windows.

Why would they be in your bed? The point of the web is to catch flying insects. A fairly basic cleaning routine will ensure that there are no flying insects between your duvet and sheets.

loyatemu

loyatemu wrote: »

they're mostly pretty reclusive, the panic is overblown.

Yeah people tend to forget that in the insect and arachnid world venom is costly. Generally they do not tend to waste it.

The False Widow will tend to bite if it feels external pressure on it - which is why bites tends to predominately come with stories of them having been in someone's trousers as they were putting them on etc etc.

But spiders and insects tend to be docile and entirely safe if they are not threatened. But that goes against the learned behaviour most of us would have. My daughter for example is 10 and she would happily watch a false widow or wasp crawling over her hands without a bother on her. And while a bite from one of these spiders _can_ be "medically significant" as they say - it generally won't be in the same way that most of us stung by a wasp would suffer nothing but a few minutes of minor annoyance.

And despite the fact she is all for digging in the garden and interacting with insects and crawlies of all kinds for over half her life - the single time in her life she has been stung by anything was when a wasp went down the back of her collar and she put pressure on it while reaching back - before she realised what it was. Had she realised what it was she would have just opened her collar - and the base of her top - out as much as possible and simply waited for it to find its own way out.

JimmyVik

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Why would they be in your bed? The point of the web is to catch flying insects. A fairly basic cleaning routine will ensure that there are no flying insects between your duvet and sheets.

At least 200 of them have hatched out on that web and are now crawling around your house
Maybe not into your bed, but thats where id go if i was a false widow