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President condemns brutal old IRA execution of elderly woman

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    guy2231 wrote: »

    Not much old IRA bad deeds got reported on because any media outlets that talked bad about the IRA Collins used to send the boys round to smash up the place and threaten them.

    Source for this?


  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    That elderly woman was giving information to the Crown forces, an occupying force on our island.
    She knew the consequences of her actions and got what she deserved.

    You can't even see how disgusting your comments are, at least the provisional IRA and their supoorters can admit the killing of Jean Mcconville was wrong, while the blueshirts like you go on to make horrible statements like this about the murder and disappearance of an elderly woman, her family never even got the chance to give her a decent burial, you are a vile human being along with all IRA supporters.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,552 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Please interact in a civil manner or do not post


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭paulaa


    The op says that the informer was 60, that's hardly elderly. Nowadays we'd call that middle-aged.

    I posted back in the thread that 60 was indeed elderly. The life expectancy in the early 1900s was 54.1 for females


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,849 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    guy2231 wrote: »
    You can't even see how disgusting your comments are, at least the provisional IRA and their supoorters can admit the killing of Jean Mcconville was wrong, while the blueshirts like you go on to make horrible statements like this about the murder and disappearance of an elderly woman, her family never even got the chance to give her a decent burial, you are a vile human being along with all IRA supporters.




    Those were different times.


    Tom Barry is an example of someone who spent a good few years on the continent killing in order to protect of British overseas interests and influence.


    He came back and then decided to apply the skills learned to help his own people.



    I'd imagine that one's idea of "normal" is different after a few years in the trenches. (As was evidenced from the actions of the Tans and others.)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,849 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    paulaa wrote: »
    I posted back in the thread that 60 was indeed elderly. The life expectancy in the early 1900s was 54.1 for females




    Life expectancy is an average. What would the conditional life expectancy of someone reaching, say 40, have been?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,342 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Those were different times.


    Tom Barry is an example of someone who spent a good few years on the continent killing in order to protect of British overseas interests and influence.


    He came back and then decided to apply the skills learned to help his own people.

    Only after he applied to join the British civil service and was rejected. You wont find that in his book though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,849 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Only after he applied to join the British civil service and was rejected. You wont find that in his book though.




    I think there is a mention of the civil service in the book.


    Not sure of the point though. Paddy was good as cannon fodder. Not so much for a career job.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jaysus, this is the ultimate Zombie Thread.

    OP’s obviously a loyalist who dreams of the day the Jack flies sovereign from Malin to Mizen, Ards Peninsula to Dingle. Part of the strategy for that is the chip away at the legitimacy of the government of the Republic by calling out atrocities made during its inception.

    On that point OP, sod off into that bin there.

    On the crimes committed, to those of you saying “good kill/ got what she deserved” you lads can get into exactly the same bin as the OP. I have great love for the harp on my passport and the complete lack of any sort of crown there, but I’m not going to be happy about the blood spilt to get that crown off.

    Hopefully each of ye will null the other and leave the rest of us in peace...


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,849 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    On the crimes committed, to those of you saying “good kill/ got what she deserved” you lads can get into exactly the same bin as the OP. I have great love for the harp on my passport and the complete lack of any sort of crown there, but I’m not going to be happy about the blood spilt to get that crown off.




    Pointing out that certain actions and repercussions would not have been unexpected in the climate that existed then is not the same as saying "she got what she deserved".


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  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Michael Collins identified those who were the tools of the British rule in Ireland and directed his men against them. And he targeted in particular the members of the RIC -those 'fellow Irishmen', often those 'fellow Catholics', those fellow 'policemen doing their duty.' How did Collins deal with them? He had his men shoot them down without mercy, a bullet in the back of the head....when they were unarmed, or with their families, it mattered not to Collins. Shall we take Michael Noonan's advice and follow the example of Michael Collins?

    How did Collins deal with the military on the streets of Dublin (remember now when the military where in the North)? By bomb and grenade.......and when there were civilian casualties, and there were - 46 civilians dead and 163 wounded in a five month period - they were the unfortunate causalities of war (unlucky lads) Shall we take Michael Noonan's advice and follow the example of Michael Collins?

    How did Collins deal with spies and informers and those seen to be too friendly with the RIC and Brits? Take them out and put a bullet through their heads. Old or young. No matter. Leave a label: Spies and informers beware! Shall we take Michael Noonan's advice and follow the example of Michael Collins?

    How did Collins deal with agents of British rule in Ireland? He directed his squad against them en masse, riddled them with bullets in their beds on Sunday morning, next to their wives, in front of their children, without hesitation. Shall we take Michael Noonan's advice and follow the example of Michael Collins?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On the crimes committed, to those of you saying “good kill/ got what she deserved” you lads can get into exactly the same bin as the OP. I have great love for the harp on my passport and the complete lack of any sort of crown there, but I’m not going to be happy about the blood spilt to get that crown off.

    The reason you have a harp on your passport instead of a crown is because there were men who were prepared to do horrific things.


  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    The IRA killed District inspector Cecil Blake and his pregnant wife in Gort, Co Galway in a callous cod blooded murder, NOT IN MY NAME.

    In May, 1921, the I.R.A killed a 70 year old civilian called Mick Sullivan near Rathmore, Co. Kerry and used his body to lure Crown Forces into the area, NOT IN MY NAME.

    Miss Kathleen Kelly, daughter of M.R. Kelly, a retired RIC man, was shot dead in Neagh, County Tipperary as she walked down the street with another woman, NOT IN MY NAME.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,849 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    guy2231 wrote: »
    The IRA killed District inspector Cecil Blake and his pregnant wife in Gort, Co Galway in a callous cod blooded murder, NOT IN MY NAME.

    In May, 1921, the I.R.A killed a 70 year old civilian called Mick Sullivan near Rathmore, Co. Kerry and used his body to lure Crown Forces into the area, NOT IN MY NAME.

    Miss Kathleen Kelly, daughter of M.R. Kelly, a retired RIC man, was shot dead in Neagh, County Tipperary as she walked down the street with another woman, NOT IN MY NAME.




    Well a relative of my grandfather's (so my relative as well albeit distant now) opened her front door to a loud knock in the middle of the night and was shot dead on the doorstep - presumably by the Tans or Auxies who were rampaging in the area at the time.



    Was that done in your name?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    guy2231 wrote: »
    The IRA killed District inspector Cecil Blake and his pregnant wife in Gort, Co Galway in a callous cod blooded murder, NOT IN MY NAME.

    Also Galway:


    Patrick and Harry Loughnane two IRA Volunteers were arrested by D Coy Auxiliaries while thrashing corn at their family home in Shanaglish, Galway.

    ‘They were first interrogated in Gort RIC barracks’, then ‘the brothers were made carry large stones and run before the lorries, the Crown Forces prodding them with bayonets until they fell exhausted… they were then tied to the lorries and dragged along the road’ to Drumharsna Castle near Ardrahan, where ‘four shots were fired in Moy O’Hynes’ (also called Moyvilla) wood near Kinvara on Friday night, about 6 miles from Gort...

    ‘Their bodies were taken to a spot near where they were killed and burned, but the Auxiliaries neglected to bury the bodies and instead threw them into a muddy and oil covered pond where they were discovered 10 days later.

    ‘Evidently the brothers had been savagely beaten and tortured. Two of Harry’s fingers were cut off. Patrick’s legs and wrists were broken. Both their skulls were so fractured that a doctor speculated that hand grenades were blown up in their mouths’.

    ‘The bodies were hideously mutilated. Patrick was found lying on his back, and Harry on his right side, about 2 yards apart, and 4 yards from the verge of the pond. They were naked, not a particle of clothing remained, save one of Harry’s boots. His once graceful figure was a mass of unsightly scars and gashes; two of his fingers were lopped off; his right arm was broken at the shoulder, being almost completely severed from the body; whilst of the face nothing remained save the chin and lips, and the skull was entirely blown away. The remains were badly charred. Patrick’s body was not charred to the same extent as his brother’s. His back and shoulders remained intact. The limbs of both were charred to such an extent that the bones were exposed, the flesh and sinews being completely burned away. Mock decorations in form of diamonds were cut along Pat’s ribs and chest. Both his wrists were broken and also his right arm above the elbow. Patrick’s face was completely lashed away, so as to be unrecognisable, and his skull was very much fractured, as if a bomb had been forced into his mouth and exploded. The bodies were then set alight in a wood, where it is believed that they may have been still alive. Patrick’s back was the only part of his body that was not blackened by burns. He was evidently thrown on his back before being set on fire. Henry’s body was scorched all over"



    All in your name.


    loughnane-brothers.jpeg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Titzon Toast


    guy2231 wrote: »
    You can't even see how disgusting your comments are, at least the provisional IRA and their supoorters can admit the killing of Jean Mcconville was wrong, while the blueshirts like you go on to make horrible statements like this about the murder and disappearance of an elderly woman, her family never even got the chance to give her a decent burial, you are a vile human being along with all IRA supporters.

    I couldn't care less what your opinion of me is tbh. Her actions got people fighting to free their country from a foreign oppressor killed. She got what she deserved.


  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Also Galway:


    Patrick and Harry Loughnane two IRA Volunteers were arrested by D Coy Auxiliaries while thrashing corn at their family home in Shanaglish, Galway.

    ‘They were first interrogated in Gort RIC barracks’, then ‘the brothers were made carry large stones and run before the lorries, the Crown Forces prodding them with bayonets until they fell exhausted… they were then tied to the lorries and dragged along the road’ to Drumharsna Castle near Ardrahan, where ‘four shots were fired in Moy O’Hynes’ (also called Moyvilla) wood near Kinvara on Friday night, about 6 miles from Gort...

    ‘Their bodies were taken to a spot near where they were killed and burned, but the Auxiliaries neglected to bury the bodies and instead threw them into a muddy and oil covered pond where they were discovered 10 days later.

    ‘Evidently the brothers had been savagely beaten and tortured. Two of Harry’s fingers were cut off. Patrick’s legs and wrists were broken. Both their skulls were so fractured that a doctor speculated that hand grenades were blown up in their mouths’.

    ‘The bodies were hideously mutilated. Patrick was found lying on his back, and Harry on his right side, about 2 yards apart, and 4 yards from the verge of the pond. They were naked, not a particle of clothing remained, save one of Harry’s boots. His once graceful figure was a mass of unsightly scars and gashes; two of his fingers were lopped off; his right arm was broken at the shoulder, being almost completely severed from the body; whilst of the face nothing remained save the chin and lips, and the skull was entirely blown away. The remains were badly charred. Patrick’s body was not charred to the same extent as his brother’s. His back and shoulders remained intact. The limbs of both were charred to such an extent that the bones were exposed, the flesh and sinews being completely burned away. Mock decorations in form of diamonds were cut along Pat’s ribs and chest. Both his wrists were broken and also his right arm above the elbow. Patrick’s face was completely lashed away, so as to be unrecognisable, and his skull was very much fractured, as if a bomb had been forced into his mouth and exploded. The bodies were then set alight in a wood, where it is believed that they may have been still alive. Patrick’s back was the only part of his body that was not blackened by burns. He was evidently thrown on his back before being set on fire. Henry’s body was scorched all over"



    All in your name.


    loughnane-brothers.jpeg

    More whataboutery, imagine on a provo thread when anyone mentioned an IRA killing all I done was bring up British Army killings there would be outrage from the same exact people.

    Do these British Army killing justify the killings of pregnant women by the IRA? Answer me that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Titzon Toast


    guy2231 wrote: »
    More whataboutery, imagine on a provo thread when anyone mentioned an IRA killing all I done was bring up British Army killings there would be outrage from the same exact people.

    Do these British Army killing justify the killings of pregnant women by the IRA? Answer me that.
    There wouldn't have been a latter without the former.
    Don't forget who started all of this and carried out far more and far worse acts of barbarity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Mules


    Lads, this was 100 years ago, who gives a f*ck


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,016 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    Tell me you're a west brit without telling me you're a west brit...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    guy2231 wrote: »
    More whataboutery, imagine on a provo thread when anyone mentioned an IRA killing all I done was bring up British Army killings there would be outrage from the same exact people.

    Do these British Army killing justify the killings of pregnant women by the IRA? Answer me that.

    How about the killing of this pregnant woman by the UVF? Is that justified?

    https://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/08/world/a-pregnant-catholic-woman-is-shot-dead-in-northern-ireland.html

    Having read through this thread, I can't believe anyone could be this dense. What do you expect a country being occupied by another foreign country to do? Just lay down and accept it?

    War isn't pretty, I wish wars didn't exist, but as long as greedy men continue to conquer countries that don't belong to them, there will be resistance.

    Like for instance, do you believe the French resistance was unjustified during WWII? I honestly don't get why you're so gung-ho with anti-Irish sentiment over two deaths in a war created entirely by the British, who killed far more Irish than the other way round.


  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    How about the killing of this pregnant woman by the UVF? Is that justified?

    https://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/08/world/a-pregnant-catholic-woman-is-shot-dead-in-northern-ireland.html

    Having read through this thread, I can't believe anyone could be this dense. What do you expect a country being occupied by another foreign country to do? Just lay down and accept it?

    War isn't pretty, I wish wars didn't exist, but as long as greedy men continue to conquer countries that don't belong to them, there will be resistance.

    Like for instance, do you believe the French resistance was unjustified during WWII? I honestly don't get why you're so gung-ho with anti-Irish sentiment over two deaths in a war created entirely by the British, who killed far more Irish than the other way round.

    Two deaths?! They were just an example what about the hundreds of innocent irishmen women and children murdered by these thugs!

    Or the roughly 150 people they "disappeared" ,all that's ever talked about is the ten or so people disappeared by the provos and you get the usual "how could anyone support these thugs how could any deny a families right to a burial" even though most of them support the old IRA that were almost identical! They were not identical actually they were even far more indiscriminate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,838 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    As far as I'm concerned Michael D can shove his apology, it was not his to give.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    guy2231 wrote: »
    Two deaths?! They were just an example what about the hundreds of innocent irishmen women and children murdered by these thugs!

    Or the roughly 150 people they "disappeared" ,all that's ever talked about is the ten or so people disappeared by the provos and you get the usual "how could anyone support these thugs how could any deny a families right to a burial" even though most of them support the old IRA that were almost identical! They were not identical actually they were even far more indiscriminate.

    Ah here, your selective outrage is really something to behold. Before you continue your mourning of a woman who was the direct cause of the death of 6 Irish men, how many Irish men, women & children in total lost their lives as a direct result of British rule do ya think?

    Ball park?


  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Danzy wrote: »
    As far as I'm concerned Michael D can shove his apology, it was not his to give.

    I appreciate Michaels apology it is a great step forward for our country, I believe soon we will see a public condemnation of the IRA by Varadkar.

    Irish republicanism has been the greatest disease this country has ever faced wether that be in the 1910s or the 1970s, we should forget about this whole "united Ireland" nonsense it is about time we took pride in our 26 county state that the British allowed us to have and condemn the IRA.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    guy2231 wrote: »
    I appreciate Michaels apology it is a great step forward for our country, I believe soon we will see a public condemnation of the IRA by Varadkar.

    Irish republicanism has been the greatest disease this country has ever faced wether that be in the 1910s or the 1970s, we should forget about this whole "united Ireland" nonsense it is about time we took pride in our 26 county state that the British allowed us to have and condemn the IRA.

    Gold trolling.
    Sorry I took you seriously


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    guy2231 wrote: »
    I appreciate Michaels apology it is a great step forward for our country, I believe soon we will see a public condemnation of the IRA by Varadkar.

    Irish republicanism has been the greatest disease this country has ever faced wether that be in the 1910s or the 1970s, we should forget about this whole "united Ireland" nonsense it is about time we took pride in our 26 county state that the British allowed us to have and condemn the IRA.

    Ah now, you gave yourself away with that one :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Titzon Toast


    guy2231 wrote: »
    I appreciate Michaels apology it is a great step forward for our country, I believe soon we will see a public condemnation of the IRA by Varadkar.

    Irish republicanism has been the greatest disease this country has ever faced wether that be in the 1910s or the 1970s, we should forget about this whole "united Ireland" nonsense it is about time we took pride in our 26 county state that the British allowed us to have and condemn the IRA.

    Very poor, must try harder. 1/10.


  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Gold trolling.
    Sorry I took you seriously

    Yeah ok, you got me.

    The point was to make a few people realise the old IRA and provisional IRA both commited some appaling acts but with guerilla armies that is an inevitability, I was trying to make people understand their hypocricy.

    When you show support for the provisonal IRA you get the usual crap "how do you justify the murder of innocent civilians" or "what about the disappeared" even though they support another identical group that done the exact same things on a far larger scale and were even more ruthless, so I was using the same ridiculous arguments against them that they would use to criticise the Provisonal IRA.

    The old and provisonal IRA were both freedom fighters fighting against an occupying force, I hope I made a few people realise that the majority of people in both these organisations were good decent people fighting against British rule while a few in both organisations went and killed innocent civilians either by mistake or on purpose.

    Wether it is Dan Breen or Francis Hughes both men were heroes and it is a discgrace that some people call one of them a hero and the other a terrorist.


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  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mules wrote: »
    Lads, this was 100 years ago, who gives a f*ck

    Any time you have incidents like the findings around Ballymurphy and BoJos "apology" in the house of commons, some people see it as unionists being thrown under the bus again, get annoyed and see the need to start the whataboutery train. Others see it as an opportunity for a bit of what some people might call trolling.


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