Multiple insurance policies

kamil2000pl

Hi all, I've been scouring google trying to find out whether 2 separate people can have a separate insurance policy on the same car. I was looking to get insured on my dad's car as a named driver but the price was ridiculous and yet with AXA I got quoted only a tad bit more for my own policy. I intend on staying with them afterwards anyway so I think this is a decent move to make. Anyone know if this is ok to do or if there's another option I could look at other than paying extortion prices as a named driver? Thanks

Goose81

kamil2000pl wrote: »

Hi all, I've been scouring google trying to find out whether 2 separate people can have a separate insurance policy on the same car. I was looking to get insured on my dad's car as a named driver but the price was ridiculous and yet with AXA I got quoted only a tad bit more for my own policy. I intend on staying with them afterwards anyway so I think this is a decent move to make. Anyone know if this is ok to do or if there's another option I could look at other than paying extortion prices as a named driver? Thanks

No you can't have something insured under 2 policies.

For example if the car got burned out by someone you could claim on your policy and your dad could also claim, hence why it's not allowed.

grogi

Goose81 wrote: »

No you can't have something insured under 2 policies.

For example if the car got burned out by someone you could claim on your policy and your dad could also claim, hence why it's not allowed.

You didn't understand what OP is asking about

In principle what OP is asking is not about insuring a car (you can do that only if you have insurable interest in doing so), but insuring themselves to drive said car.

There is nothing fundamental that would prevent one from doing so. However no insurance company in this country wants such business for private consumers. They might deemed it to risky, to fishy or whatever. They just don't want to.

bazz26

One of the first questions they will ask you is are you the registered owner of the car that you are taking the policy out on and since its your dad's car then the answer would be no. Insurance companies don't like that and may not provide cover as they may consider you have no insurable interest in the car. Generally the only exceptions I think they would allow would be spouses.

mikeecho

I'm a bit confused about the op's post


But, if two people have an insurance policy on an item.
Let's say they item is valued at €1,000

And both persons insured the item at €1000.

The item is then stolen/lost etc.

Even though each person took a policy out for 1,000 .. they'll only each receive a max of 500

kamil2000pl

kamil2000pl wrote: »

Hi all, I've been scouring google trying to find out whether 2 separate people can have a separate insurance policy on the same car. I was looking to get insured on my dad's car as a named driver but the price was ridiculous and yet with AXA I got quoted only a tad bit more for my own policy. I intend on staying with them afterwards anyway so I think this is a decent move to make. Anyone know if this is ok to do or if there's another option I could look at other than paying extortion prices as a named driver? Thanks

AXA's quote assumptions document.

"The car must: be owned by and registered to you and/or your spouse/civil partner"

grogi

mikeecho wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about the op's post


But, if two people have an insurance policy on an item.
Let's say they item is valued at €1,000

And both persons insured the item at €1000.

The item is then stolen/lost etc.

Even though each person took a policy out for 1,000 .. they'll only each receive a max of 500

It is not about insuring a car!

It is the driver that needs to be insured, NOT THE CAR!

Eggs For Dinner

grogi wrote: »

It is not about insuring a car!

It is the driver that needs to be insured, NOT THE CAR!

In Ireland, you insure the car, with authorised drivers who's liability to use it is covered.

grogi

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

In Ireland, you insure the car, with authorised drivers who's liability to use it is covered.

Except for those times when you decide to take 3rd party cover only and don't insure the car.

I am fully aware of the complexities of such policy - it covers some more risks for the owner as well. OP isn't interested in covering those however: they are not be the owner and hence not liable for them.

In Ireland you will not be sold a policy to drive only a car you don't own. Period. But it is only by decision of the insurance companies not to offer that. If I was to guess it because with all the insurance scams happening around it is deemed too risky. Messy claim resolution might be a factor as well when the responsibility is not clearly divided between owner and the driver (exp. collision because of brake failure - is the owner liable for not maintaining the car or the driver for driving the not checking if the car driven is roadworthy?)

You can still buy a policy to drive cars you don't own if you insure yourself to drive you own car at the same time - so there is nothing fundamental to offer one.

It would be great if insurance companies offer a product like that, but one that you can purchase only if the owner is insured with the same company. Parent purchases the insurance in AXA, and child can purchase their own 3rd party liability in AXA as well. The risk of lengthily litigation is reduced as both claims would be covered by same insurance. I still see a few issues with that though

Eggs For Dinner

grogi wrote: »

Except for those times when you decide to take 3rd party cover only and don't insure the car.

You are still insuring the car, even on a 3rd party policy as liability can arise from the ownership of a vehicle, condition of a vehicle and driving of a vehicle

grogi

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

You are still insuring the car, even on a 3rd party policy as liability can arise from the ownership of a vehicle, condition of a vehicle and driving of a vehicle

You repeat the same mantra that is false.

Irish policy associated with a vehicle X covers following thigs:

a) 3rd party liability for the driver of X, whoever the policy allows
b) 3rd party liability for the owner of X
c) 3rd party liability for the person buying the insurance while driving cars other than X (typically excluding the damage to the car driven, but it is included with some policies as well)
d) risks of theft, fire or accidental damage of X

Only the part (d) is actually insuring the car. The parts (a) and (c) are about insuring the driver in various scenarios, while part (b) is insuring the owner.

I am not even sure which cover is mandated by Irish law. It certainly isn't (d), that's for sure. Last time I checked I could only find Road Traffic Act 1961 (Part VI). What are the more current regulations about mandatory insurance in Ireland?


OP is interested in (a) only. Why would they care about liability of the owner if they are not the owner? If it gets to court and and the court decides that they, as a driver of a vehicle are liable for something, that would by definition be covered by driver's 3rd party liability policy.

Eggs For Dinner

OK, so my mantra is false. Go declare your desire to take out an additional policy on the same vehicle to any Irish Insurer and see how far you get, regardless of whether it is 3rd party only or comprehensive

grogi

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

OK, so my mantra is false. Go declare your desire to take out an additional policy on the same vehicle to any Irish Insurer and see how far you get, regardless of whether it is 3rd party only or comprehensive

You just don't read what I write, right?

In Ireland you will not be sold a policy to drive only a car you don't own. Period. But it is only by decision of the insurance companies not to offer that. If I was to guess it because with all the insurance scams happening around it is deemed too risky. Messy claim resolution might be a factor as well when the responsibility is not clearly divided between owner and the driver (exp. collision because of brake failure - is the owner liable for not maintaining the car or the driver for driving the not checking if the car driven is roadworthy?)

I am very well aware what the state of affairs is in this country. Your reasoning for it is complete nonsense though.

Can you also answer to my indirect question above and point me to the most recent regulations about mandatory motor policies in Ireland? I cannot find anything anything more recent than Road Traffic Act 1961.
* What constitutes a motor policy?
* On what grounds Gardi would deem if policy puchased in other EU country is valid (let's not go offtopic - I am able to purchase one)?
* What makes a piece of paper a valid insurance disc (can I print one? if not, who can? and why)?

Thanks

Eggs For Dinner

There are too many questions there and the answers are complex and discussed by both of us on many occasions. Some of the reasons things are not done by insurers are for practical reasons, even though they are legal. Others go against the basic principles of insurance.

grogi

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

There are too many questions there and the answers are complex and discussed by both of us on many occasions. Some of the reasons things are not done by insurers are for practical reasons, even though they are legal.

So either I'm too stupid to understand or you are too smart to even waste your time to try to explain... Classy...

Others go against the basic principles of insurance.

Here we go - insurable interest again This discussion is absolutely pointless - I only get Ooohhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm from you.

Flinty997

Excluding trade and business.

You used to be able to insure a driver only privately. Your used to be able to insure a car with open driving. These things are rare now for personal insurance. Most places require you to be the owner of the car before they'll insure you. They also require the drivers to be named. I assume that's a business decision not a legal one.

grogi

Flinty997 wrote: »

Excluding trade and business.

You used to be able to insure a driver only privately. Your used to be able to insure a car with open driving. These things are rare now for personal insurance. Most places require you to be the owner of the car before they'll insure you. They also require the drivers to be named. I assume that's a business decision not a legal one.

Yes, it is a business decision. Doesn't stop @Eggs For Dinner from claiming that this is against some mythical insurance principle they never revealed

Flinty997

kamil2000pl wrote: »

Hi all, I've been scouring google trying to find out whether 2 separate people can have a separate insurance policy on the same car. I was looking to get insured on my dad's car as a named driver but the price was ridiculous and yet with AXA I got quoted only a tad bit more for my own policy. I intend on staying with them afterwards anyway so I think this is a decent move to make. Anyone know if this is ok to do or if there's another option I could look at other than paying extortion prices as a named driver? Thanks

Maybe you should switch your dad's insurance to whichever is cheaper insuring him as the main driver and you as named. There's no point getting separate quotes.