remains of 215 children found buried near residential school in Canada

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Tell us what you think the rate might have been? If you want to talk figures then put a number to it.

Fyi, I could not care less what the rate is. If this turns out similarly to Tuam and these are unmarked graves of undeclared deaths, do you think it's acceptable? Where do you stand on the likes of Tuam?

riffmongous

Gatling wrote: »

By reports seems TB was the biggest killer at the time due to a lack of medical interventions ,most places likely had no access to anything but the bare basics of medicine ,
TB , measles,flu and numerous other infections and diseases would have gone through homes like wildfires , there is probably similar number of deaths in isolated communities with lack of medical care at the time ,

Or Nazi POW camps.. these places had little access to medicine on purpose

Gatling

volchitsa wrote: »

And these children were just dumped without parents being informed - that alone shows there was something very abnormal going on.

Apparently efforts were made to inform the parents and rail companies wouldn't repatriate the dead because it's wasn't financially viable ,
Could they have been given Christian burials possibly but they weren't Christians ,even it it was deaths due to epidemics mass burials wouldn't be uncommon for the times ,

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/truth-and-reconciliation-commission-by-the-numbers-1.3096185

Share of the schools operated by the Roman Catholic Church: up to 60 per cent.

Total First Nations, Métis, and Inuit children placed in residential schools: more than 150,000.

Estimated number of residential schools student deaths: over 6,000, according to TRC chair Justice Murray Sinclair

Odds of a student dying over the life of the program: 1 in 25

Odds of dying for Canadians serving in the Second World War: 1 in 26

During the program's first half-century, tuberculosis and then influenza were the primary killers. The neglect, abuse, lack of food, isolation from family and badly constructed buildings assisted disease in killing residential school "inmates," as Scott termed them. A lawyer who conducted a review in 1907 told the government, "Doing nothing to obviate the preventable causes of death, brings the Department within unpleasant nearness to the charge of manslaughter."

Christy42

Donald Trump wrote: »

Listen, I did not do any calculation. Nor did I extrapolate my own story to the general case. Another poster did. In doing so, they did not do their calculations correctly. So I told them so.



Go post inane shite at them. Not me. I didn't do the extrapolation. Merely pointed out that 100 x 2 = 200. It is not 100 x 2 = 40.

So if your story was not meant to be brought out to a general case what was the point of it? I am also guessing then you were aware that 2 dying in a year would be considered above average.

The issue with extrapolation was you unclear with what your story was saying and its relevance to the thread. 2 died over a year, 2 died over 5 years. The same with grandparents siblings. Yes some people died early. Even in the modern day we still have children dying from diseases we can't treat. It is not relevant.

These children died at a higher rate than normal for the time in institutions known for mistreating children. This is not rocket science to figure out they were not all pure misfortune and that lives were cut short due to mistreatment.

Gatling

riffmongous wrote: »

Or Nazi POW camps.. these places had little access to medicine on purpose

A little sensational ,the Uyghurs post you made got mention of Nazi death camps ,

Your taking about the 1890s onwards , there was few and fair between who lived to be old aged at the time

Cluedo Monopoly

It seems the Roman church has not issued it's template apology yet.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/we-do-not-want-this-to-be-hidden-remains-of-215-children-discovered-on-site-of-former-residential-school-1.5446837

But there’s more work to be done for Truth and Reconciliation in Canada. One thing that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission has been pushing for has been for an apology from the Pope for the Catholic Church’s role in residential schools.

“The Catholic Church has yet to do that, and to really accept full responsibility for reparations to families.

volchitsa

Gatling wrote: »

Apparently efforts were made to inform the parents and rail companies wouldn't repatriate the dead because it's wasn't financially viable ,
Could they have been given Christian burials possibly but they weren't Christians ,even it it was deaths due to epidemics mass burials wouldn't be uncommon for the times ,

Who says they "made efforts"? Sounds like the British government saying the people they killed in Ballymurphy had all pointed guns or been shooting at them. They would say that, wouldn't they?

As for not being christians, how likely is it that children taken away from indigenous families to be brought up in a religious-run school would have had their tribal religion respected? Did that ever happen anywhere? Weren't they just baptised by force and brought up as christians?

Cluedo Monopoly

Deleted User wrote: »

Fyi, I could not care less what the rate is. If this turns out similarly to Tuam and these are unmarked graves of undeclared deaths, do you think it's acceptable? Where do you stand on the likes of Tuam?

He tried to muddy the waters in the Mother and Baby home thread too and got found out.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

I posted a link above. You can download the mortality table in the link



I also highlighted 15% of children born died before age 21 in 1920's Ireland

That did not address my point at all. Unmarked graves, undeclared deaths and family members not even being informed of the death is utterly horrific from a supposedly moral institution... Doesn't matter how natural the deaths were.

riffmongous

Gatling wrote: »

A little sensational ,the Uyghurs post you made got mention of Nazi death camps ,

Your taking about the 1890s onwards , there was few and fair between who lived to be old aged at the time

Not sensational at all in this case, the death rate was the same, as posted above

riffmongous

Donald Trump wrote: »

Odds of a child that had already survived to age 5 (so not an infant death) in 1920's Ireland subsequently dying before age 21: 1 in 21.9

Ireland and in particular Dublin had an "abnormally high" child mortality rate for a western country in the first half of the century though. A comparison of like with like showed

But despite occasional efforts at reform, even as late as the 1940s the death rates within residential schools were up to five times higher than among Canadian children as a whole.

Christy42

Donald Trump wrote: »

Jesus Christ. It was not a long post. How could you not understand it? I did not do any extrapolation. Another poster did. They made calculation errors. I pointed out their calculation errors without commenting on why they did such a calculation.


It is not rocket science, and you moan on about higher rates, but when asked for the figures you don't have them. Another poster doesn't care for the rates. How are you supposed to reason with that?


"I don't know what the figure is. Or what the general figure is. But I'm gonna make stuff up to suit myself"


And yes, the British institutions did implement and drive these laws and oppression of what they saw as "filthy natives" and "savages". Because those "savages" didn't have what they considered to be a Christian (i.e. Protestant) work ethic. They did it here and they did it in Canada. God save the Queen as they say over there in Canada

I must have missed if I was asked for the numbers? I can't control what other posters care about though there are multiple crimes against humanity happened to create this situation.

Also not sure why I should repost numbers here already but anyway.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/newly-discovered-b-c-graves-a-grim-reminder-of-the-heartbreaking-death-toll-of-residential-schools

I have not made anything up. You are the one coming in with utter nonsense about your classmates and grandparents. Honestly the confusion is in trying to link your posts to the topic at hand or to figure out what your point is.

Christy42

Donald Trump wrote: »

I can give you the names of those classmates if you want. You might be able to find their parents online and tell them that their son's deaths were utter nonsense if that is how you get your kicks.


I will tell you though that the early deaths of any of my grandparents siblings was not a nonsense. Shame on you for saying so. Pretty despicable.

What relevance to the thread or are you still trying to muddy the waters here? This is about the shameful mistreatment of native children by authorities in Canada.

Their deaths are not nonsense. Bringing them up in this thread is.

Smee_Again

Donald Trump wrote: »

I can give you the names of those classmates if you want. You might be able to find their parents online and tell them that their son's deaths were utter nonsense if that is how you get your kicks.


I will tell you though that the early deaths of any of my grandparents siblings was not a nonsense. Shame on you for saying so. Pretty despicable.

More gaslighting.

Cluedo Monopoly

Smee_Again wrote: »

More gaslighting.

Completely. Best not to engage with the irrelevant whataboutery. Sad.

Christy42

Obviously a next step will need to be setting up a group to try and find more of these sites around Canada. Who knows how many more there could be near other schools.

The extent of what went on should be found out.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/03/traumatic-legacy-indian-boarding-schools/584293/

According to the Act’s text, Christian missionaries and other “persons of good moral character” were charged with introducing Native children to “the habits and arts of civilization”

This is what achieving civilization looked like in practice: Students were stripped of all things associated with Native life.
Contact with family and community members was discouraged or forbidden altogether. Survivors have described a culture of pervasive physical and sexual abuse at the schools. Food and medical attention were often scarce; many students died. Their parents sometimes learned of their death only after they had been buried in school cemeteries, some of which were unmarked.

Although she died in 2011, I can still see her trying to outrun her invisible demons. She would walk across the floor of our house, sometimes for hours, desperately shaking her head from side to side to keep the persistent awful memories from entering. She would flap and wring her hands over and over again, as though to rid them of a clinging presence.

Hypervigilance, defensiveness, resentment, and a hair-trigger temper had been her only allies against the Sister School messages of racial inferiority, daily reminders that Natives were primitive beings unlikely to rise above the role of servants in a white man’s world. She raged against the nuns’ label “dirty Indian,” haunted by the fear that the nuns were right, even as she scrubbed miles of floors and performed hours of heavy manual labor.

All of those awful Sister School doings cut her mind. I think she believed that she would break into 1 million pieces if she recalled the traumatic events that held her hostage, forever burned into her amygdala.

As she described the nun’s inexplicable cruelty—the beatings, the shaming, and the withholding of food

Cluedo Monopoly

Christy42 wrote: »

Obviously a next step will need to be setting up a group to try and find more of these sites around Canada. Who knows how many more there could be near other schools.

The extent of what went on should be found out.

The head of the truth and reconciliation commission (Justice Murray Sinclair) said it's estimated at least 6,000 children died in these institutions and that it’s inexcusable nobody has ever found out the exact number.

“We have recommendations around that in the report. We’re going to tell you there are lots of records out there that are missing.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/2027587/deaths-at-canadas-indian-residential-schools-need-more-study-commission/

Overheal

Gatling wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not considered cool to make noise about unlike cool things like climate change and BLM ,
How many people even mention Tiananmen Square these days ,
It's usually ah sure didn't America do this and that

Huh? Tianmen gets mentioned loads. It’s anniversary always gets marked in the West. What a strange deflection to raise.

Shebean

Be interesting to see how a first world nation handles their mass burial of institutionalised children. I don't see as big a cover up and whitewash as Ireland shamefully had, but we'll see.
Very similar situation.

Faugheen

It's absolutely hilarious that the same select few people will try to downplay anything horrific when indigenous groups or ethnic minorities are involved.

Timberrrrrrrr

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's rather disturbing the same select few people who get their kicks from misery porn. Especially when indigenous groups or ethnic minorities are involved. Spending their day looking on the internet to find something to get themselves off on for the day.

Then they turn around and call it hilarious. Sad

I started the thread, I didn't go "looking" for it, it popped up in my news alert and I wanted to get people's thoughts. Nice try though :rolleyes:

Faugheen

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's rather disturbing the same select few people who get their kicks from misery porn. Especially when indigenous groups or ethnic minorities are involved. Spending their day looking on the internet to find something to get themselves off on for the day.

So expressing horror at the fact that over 200 children of indigenous backgrounds were found buried near a residential school is ‘getting kicks from misery porn’?

Then people like you dismissing it as ‘ara sure’ and then saying ‘it wasn’t Auschwitz’ deserve to be called out on it.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business dude. You can get your kicks however you like. That's your own choice.


It's strange to me, but how and ever.

Honestly, so far you're the guy who is treating this topic in a particularly messed up way.

Faugheen

Donald Trump wrote: »

Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business dude. You can get your kicks however you like. That's your own choice.


It's strange to me, but how and ever.

Ah, now you’re sh*tposting for the sake of it.

I’ll leave you to it. I’m out.

Cluedo Monopoly

Donald Trump wrote: »

Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business dude. You can get your kicks however you like. That's your own choice.


It's strange to me, but how and ever.

Where will you look for attention next with your obscure illogical and irrelevant whataboutery?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://twitter.com/deAdderCanada/status/1399378652631031815

Worth reading a few of the replies to see the anger in Canada over these camps.

wes

Settler colonialism is always genocidal.

Those poor children. I hope they can get some kind of justice.

harrylittle

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

I was shocked until I read the Catholic Church was involved. Then it’s not so shocking.

have you any shock reserved for the 10,000 babies murdered by the irish government/ irish health care system since passing the abortion bill ?