Fly me to the Moon - your 3rd travel Megathread - read OP

Dr. Em

Dr. Em wrote: »

The Irish state has an obligation to allow citizens to return, no matter if they have broken the law or not. This is why so many countries (including Ireland) have had repatriation flights when travel bans have gone into effect. If you have an Irish passport, or are an Irish resident, the state does not want to put a bar to entry. Enforcing the fine upon return would in effect bar anyone who could not pay the fine and it is a deliberate choice not investigate if the entering passenger left the state legally or not. For one thing, it would involve too many resources to be practical, and for another, it might fall afoul of Ireland's obligation to not bar its own citizens from returning. I am not saying that anyone should break the law by travelling to the airport, but it is not an oversight that you will be greeted by immigration and not the Gardaí if you fly into Ireland.

The fine is to discourage anyone from travelling to the airport if they do not have an essential reason to do so. The whole reason the fine is so high it to make people consider if they really need to travel. They aren't interested in punishment for its own sake.

And yes, I have personally seen the system at work.

Thats my view now too on the practicality,I think you have it surmised well
That said,if Gardaí are pragmatic at the airport, they cannot be if a curtain twitcher envious or 'outraged' at social media pictures of someone partying down in ibiza for the week makes a complaint
Then there's trouble as complaints would need to be followed up

dashoonage

Right lads. First jab this evening, Pfizer, second in 4 weeks and 10 days after i should be good and fully vaccinated.

Nothing stopping a man booking a week in spain from 24th of July. I can come back without any PCR tests etc seeing as ill be fully vaccinated?

pc7

dashoonage wrote: »

Right lads. First jab this evening, Pfizer, second in 4 weeks and 10 days after i should be good and fully vaccinated.

Nothing stopping a man booking a week in spain from 24th of July. I can come back without any PCR tests etc seeing as ill be fully vaccinated?

You are good 7 days after second Pfeizer, yes and you won't need anything to get back into Ireland after 19th July

Marine Layer

Marine Layer wrote: »

Thats my view now too on the practicality,I think you have it surmised well
That said,if Gardaí are pragmatic at the airport, they cannot be if a curtain twitcher envious or 'outraged' at social media pictures of someone partying down in ibiza for the week makes a complaint
Then there's trouble as complaints would need to be followed up

You are not checked by gardai coming into the country.

Skygord

Feria40 wrote: »

Yes Amber list.

I think it's a combination of factors:

1. Please spend the queen's pounds at home
2. Political motivations re Brexit - empire/motherland/stay in good old blighty/ don't give the dastardly Europeans money
3. As mentioned above all else he doesn't want to row back on the domestic reopening roadmap. Most eggs are in the AZ basket and while the AZ vaccine is still very effective it is clearly not the gold standard, especially with only one dose against the Indian variant

Edit. You beat me to it Tensor!

The problem for us is that the Irish Gov will latch on to anything to delay reopening

4. The Champions League final soccer match, last Saturday, between two English teams, in Portugal, is over.

TomSweeney

bubblypop wrote: »

My cousin came in from UK last week, fully vaccinated.
PCR test before entry, full out locator form, self isolate and take another test on day 5, free to travel.
By July, it may be even less with no need to isolate

Just reading that makes me weep for humanity.


Fully vaccinated.
Needed TWO PCRs (rip off scam)

and self isolation.


Absolute ****ing theatre.

TomSweeney

TomSweeney wrote: »

Just reading that makes me weep for humanity.


Fully vaccinated.
Needed TWO PCRs (rip off scam)

and self isolation.


Absolute ****ing theatre.

2nd test is free from the hse

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

You are not checked by gardai coming into the country.

I appreciate that
Why are the immigration officers at the desk asking an Irish citizen the purpose of their journey though?
Have they any right to an answer and what if you refuse to answer that question
Also if someone complains we left(breaking a law),will that complaint be investigated? It would have to be in my opinion just like being outside the 2 or 5km limits used be when reported
I guess stay away from Insta or Snapchat while away is the advice there

Its all a bit handmaid's tale if you ask me
Proper enforcement of quarantine would make more sense
That delta variant too going wild in the UK was Boris Johnsons fault
He did not close the UK border to India soon enough for selfish trade reasons
Lessons are never learned
All accademic hopefully in a few months when herd immunity is reached with vaccines and sooner for travellers with the green cert

pc7

Jesus just thinking of the whole being asked why you are traveling. There are plenty of Irish women still traveling to the UK to avail of abortion for various reasons rather than availing of it here. It really is dark ages stuff.

Marine Layer

Marine Layer wrote: »

I appreciate that
Why are the immigration officers at the desk asking an Irish citizen the purpose of their journey though?
Have they any right to an answer and what if you refuse to answer that question
Also if someone complains we left(breaking a law),will that complaint be investigated? It would have to be in my opinion just like being outside the 2 or 5km limits used be when reported
I guess stay away from Insta or Snapchat while away is the advice there

Its all a bit handmaid's tale if you ask me
Proper enforcement of quarantine would make more sense
That delta variant too going wild in the UK was Boris Johnsons fault
He did not close the UK border to India soon enough for selfish trade reasons
Lessons are never learned
All accademic hopefully in a few months when herd immunity is reached with vaccines and sooner for travellers with the green cert

Jesus.
Just stay at home.

Dr. Em

pc7 wrote: »

Jesus just thinking of the whole being asked why you are traveling. There are plenty of Irish women still traveling to the UK to avail of abortion for various reasons rather than availing of it here. It really is dark ages stuff.

They would only need to say that they are going for a necessary medical appointment. The whole point of the fine is to stop people from going to the airport in the first place. Once they are there the Gardaí are generally quite reasonable - they don't want to fine anyone if they don't have to. Of course, they are more likely to inquire further if your destination is Lanzarote or something, but if you are going to Germany or the UK for a medical appointment and are polite and say that you can show them papers, they aren't actually going to demand to see your papers unless you give them hassle or they have a strong reason to suspect you are lying.

faceman

Marine Layer wrote: »

I appreciate that
Why are the immigration officers at the desk asking an Irish citizen the purpose of their journey though?
Have they any right to an answer and what if you refuse to answer that question
Also if someone complains we left(breaking a law),will that complaint be investigated? It would have to be in my opinion just like being outside the 2 or 5km limits used be when reported
I guess stay away from Insta or Snapchat while away is the advice there

Immigration officers are not gardai so they don’t investigate crimes. There was a thread some time ago, I think it was either in the travel forum or aviation forum, an immigration answered some questions around this. I’m a little hazy on most of it but from memory the questions can be part of profiling. How you react when you answer as opposed to the answer itself can alert the immigration officer if they feel you answer under stress. Or something to that effect. No doubt the Gardai do the same when they stop people in relation to any crime or investigation but I’ll leave that answer to the professionals.

Let’s be honest. He now have 2 posters who admit to be policing the poet and airport. If it was a big deal they’d have followed up on every poster in this thread given many people have been on trying to circumnavigate the rules

One of them said it already though, it isn’t really appropriate for gardai to be policing public health rules.

wrote:

Its all a bit handmaid's tale if you ask me
Proper enforcement of quarantine would make more sense
That delta variant too going wild in the UK was Boris Johnsons fault
He did not close the UK border to India soon enough for selfish trade reasons
Lessons are never learned
All accademic hopefully in a few months when herd immunity is reached with vaccines and sooner for travellers with the green cert

The delta variant is on the loose in Australia and they have a strict MHQ.

Peer reviewed research in 2020 show that quarantine and border controls doesn’t stop the spread of covid but instead temporarily slows it down. Once it’s in, it’s in.

TomSweeney

bubblypop wrote: »

2nd test is free from the hse

Not the point ...

They should need NO TEST!!!

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Jesus.
Just stay at home.

Well that's what they say on RTE
Top right of the screen:D

naufragos123

naufragos123 wrote: »

bubblypop I very much appreciate you and Niner's input. Hearing stuff from the horse's mouth is invaluable as much of all this is mired in vagueness and people are understandably anxious.Some people are anxious travellers without this added layer of hassle.

Valhallapt raised an important point about Garda interpretation of a passenger's excuse and you would fear coming up against an awkward one. For example where the reason for travel is medical treatment /appointment and you have the email from the foreign doctor to prove it, do they accept this without further question or do they/ can they start quizzing you as to why you're not getting said treatment in this country? I know it was a big loophole for Donnelly and he tried his damndest to close it [thankfully didn't as many seeking treatment abroad are very genuine]. You hear that people are able to breeze through with just a claim of a dental appointment and Gardai, though dubious, waving them on. Is it the case that proof of a dental /medical appointment is acceptable without being subject to further questioning? Thank you so much.

Different people will of course approach a situation differently. Most Gardai are aware of the law and therefore wave you through because it's not our jobs to correct or cover bad legislation.

How each one interacts with you it's more likely to be a reflection on that person's personality than a different attitude towards the law or enforcement.

Golden rule however always remains in life as on boards, don't be a dick unless you want a reaction. Val increases his chances of being waved on ten fold of he engages with the garda as one decent person to another.

Red Silurian

faceman wrote: »

The delta variant is on the loose in Australia and they have a strict MHQ.

Peer reviewed research in 2020 show that quarantine and border controls doesn’t stop the spread of covid but instead temporarily slows it down. Once it’s in, it’s in.

Delta is running rife in the city of Melbourne. Vietnam now have recorded cases after being COVID free for so long. The experts believe that it is down to poor ventilation in the rooms and that the MHQ staff caught the virus and it spread from there. Most hotels in the state of Victoria don't have windows that open at all. By comparison, in NZ the hotels have much better ventilation and the people in MHQ have time every day outside for exercise

MHQ has successfully managed to keep COVID (of all variants) out of the other 5 states of Austraiia as well as New Zealand, China and Taiwan

Using one (or in my case, using 2) examples of failed MHQ isn't an accurate reflection of the overall picture!

naufragos123

Marine Layer wrote: »

I appreciate that
Why are the immigration officers at the desk asking an Irish citizen the purpose of their journey though?
Have they any right to an answer and what if you refuse to answer that question
Also if someone complains we left(breaking a law),will that complaint be investigated? It would have to be in my opinion just like being outside the 2 or 5km limits used be when reported
I guess stay away from Insta or Snapchat while away is the advice there

Its all a bit handmaid's tale if you ask me
Proper enforcement of quarantine would make more sense
That delta variant too going wild in the UK was Boris Johnsons fault
He did not close the UK border to India soon enough for selfish trade reasons
Lessons are never learned
All accademic hopefully in a few months when herd immunity is reached with vaccines and sooner for travellers with the green cert

While I freely admit to being annoyed by your endless focus on this question I do think you have a point. The emboldened above sums it up. Irish people can be unbelievable begrudgers and there are some wouldn't hesitate to try and land you in it out of sheer jealousy that you got out while they didn't have the nerve to try. So absolutely keep quiet and don't be rubbing it in is very good advice.

But I am very reassured by all the replies here. Coming back is not the same as going out. And I think if you satisfy the Garda on exit that you're genuine [even if you're not] that will be that and there will be no chasing people up. Time and resources just aren't there to be finding out if Mike from Clare really did go to that dentist or Mary from Skerries actually went to that funeral.

gozunda

Have to laugh - the general picture of people scurrying around like demented rabbits in the headlights hell bent on bending rules, coming up with imaginative "essential" reasons, lying and ducking and diving around an airport - all to go on a holiday for a bit of weather and booze or how's your father is a bit well frankly hillarious :pac:

Yeah and I know some who think there should be no restrictions whatsoever, something something freemen, inalienable rights, North Korea.

The thing is the whole situation right across Europe and globally is still highly volatile. The issues with restrictions are not just in Ireland.

My advice would be for peace of mind and to save your well earned money - hold off until things are a bit more certain until at least the 19th and forget those advocating the Lanigan Ball style antics

#queue outrage

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Have to laugh - the general picture of people scurrying around like demented rabbits in the headlights hell bent on bending rules, coming up with imaginative "essential" reasons, lying and ducky and diving around an airport - all to go on a holiday for a bit of weather and booze or how's your father is a bit well frankly hillarious :pac:

Yeah and I know some who think there should be no restrictions whatsoever, something something freemen, inalienable rights, North Korea.

The thing is the whole situation right across Europe and globally is still highly volatile. The issues with restrictions are not just in Ireland.

My advice would be for peace of mind and to save your well earned money - hold off until things are a bit more certain until at least the 19th and forget those advocating the Lanigan Ball style antics

#queue outrage

If it makes you happy to imagine me scurrying through the airport like a demented rabbit, imagine all you like!

(and then head on back to the ‘close the airports’ thread....)

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

#queue outrage

Its Cue not queue
Who was your English teacher:D

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If it makes you happy to imagine me scurrying through the airport like a demented rabbit, imagine all you like!

(and then head on back to the ‘close the airports’ thread....)

Are you "scurrying through the airport like a demented rabbit" woody?

Nothing personal - its the descriptions people have posted about sneaking into the airport, dodging checkpoints, moving between terminals, etc etc which provides the picture.

But no matter :pac:

But no I'm not advocating "close the airports"

Ye have to admit the descriptions are fairly hillarious all the same.

gozunda

Marine Layer wrote: »

Its Cue not queue
Who was your English teacher:D

No it was deliberately "queue" as I expect a long line of indignation and outrage.

Well done on the grammar/ spelling Godwin though

yoshimitsu

gozunda wrote: »

Have to laugh - the general picture of people scurrying around like demented rabbits in the headlights hell bent on bending rules, coming up with imaginative "essential" reasons, lying and ducky and diving around an airport - all to go on a holiday for a bit of weather and booze or how's your father is a bit well frankly hillarious :pac:

Yeah and I know some who think there should be no restrictions whatsoever, something something freemen, inalienable rights, North Korea.

The thing is the whole situation right across Europe and globally is still highly volatile. The issues with restrictions are not just in Ireland.

My advice would be for peace of mind and to save your well earned money - hold off until things are a bit more certain until at least the 19th and forget those advocating the Lanigan Ball style antics

#queue outrage

We're back to your well established equation: travel = booze and sunshine... maybe it caused 'outrage' a year ago but it's more like #cue pity now



FYI rabbits in the headlights freeze, they dont scurry around

Klonker

gozunda wrote: »

Have to laugh - the general picture of people scurrying around like demented rabbits in the headlights hell bent on bending rules, coming up with imaginative "essential" reasons, lying and ducky and diving around an airport - all to go on a holiday for a bit of weather and booze or how's your father is a bit well frankly hillarious :pac:

Yeah and I know some who think there should be no restrictions whatsoever, something something freemen, inalienable rights, North Korea.

The thing is the whole situation right across Europe and globally is still highly volatile. The issues with restrictions are not just in Ireland.

My advice would be for peace of mind and to save your well earned money - hold off until things are a bit more certain until at least the 19th and forget those advocating the Lanigan Ball style antics

#queue outrage

People don't just travel abroad for holidays. There's a number of reasons that people travel and some are worried what they might deem essential may not be deemed essential by the guards checking at the airport.

I would disagree on how volatile the situation is across Europe. Take here for example, there's about 80 people in hospital with covid from a population of almost 5m. Over 250k vaccines a week being giving out. And it's not all the same across Europe. The vast majority don't have fines in place for non essential travel, in fact some have already signed up to the green card with only a vaccine or antigen test for entry.

gozunda

yoshimitsu wrote: »

We're back to your well established equation: travel = booze and sunshine... maybe it caused 'outrage' a year ago but it's more like #cue pity
FYI rabbits in the headlights freeze, they dont scurry around

So far we've had grammar / spelling/ analogy and now animal behaviour being targeted for correction :pac:

Well of course, just like the blessed cheesemakers in Monty Python - the example - is not to be taken literally but includes all types of holiday packages etc. I'm obviously not including educational tours and other types of highbrow excursions which we know are the most popular type of holidays :pac:

But yeah definitely some outrage going on ...

And to the analogy - as to the rabbits in the headlights of restrictions - there does appear to be a lot of scurrying around alright. And that's only going by the comments to date tbf ,)

gozunda

Klonker wrote: »

People don't just travel abroad for holidays. There's a number of reasons that people travel and some are worried what they might deem essential may not be deemed essential by the guards checking at the airport.

I would disagree on how volatile the situation is across Europe. Take here for example, there's about 80 people in hospital with covid from a population of almost 5m. Over 250k vaccines a week being giving out. And it's not all the same across Europe. The vast majority don't have fines in place for non essential travel, in fact some have already signed up to the green card with only a vaccine or antigen test for entry.

Yes there's essential reasons for travel - no one disputing that. And as Niner and others pointed out most will have no issue with other genuine reasons. But I think you know that already.

As to the situation being volatile in Europe - that refers to a constantly changing backdrop of changing restrictions. And not just 'fines' or infection rates here etc. And I don't see that changing for the better until at least mid July tbh.

faceman

Red Silurian wrote: »

Delta is running rife in the city of Melbourne. Vietnam now have recorded cases after being COVID free for so long. The experts believe that it is down to poor ventilation in the rooms and that the MHQ staff caught the virus and it spread from there. Most hotels in the state of Victoria don't have windows that open at all. By comparison, in NZ the hotels have much better ventilation and the people in MHQ have time every day outside for exercise

Unless the “experts” have evidence that it’s poor ventilation, then it’s not proven and detracts from flaws in the contact tracing system. Clearly there are issues with their contact tracing system.

wrote:

MHQ has successfully managed to keep COVID (of all variants) out of the other 5 states of Austraiia as well as New Zealand, China and Taiwan

Taken in isolation, yes. But at huge cost. The NZ vaccine campaign is terrible and the level of vaccine hesitancy on back of their approach to managing the pandemic is huge.

wrote:

Using one (or in my case, using 2) examples of failed MHQ isn't an accurate reflection of the overall picture!

You brought it up bossman :pac: :pac:

faceman

gozunda wrote: »

Have to laugh - the general picture of people scurrying around like demented rabbits in the headlights hell bent on bending rules, coming up with imaginative "essential" reasons, lying and ducky and diving around an airport - all to go on a holiday for a bit of weather and booze or how's your father is a bit well frankly hillarious :pac:

Yeah and I know some who think there should be no restrictions whatsoever, something something freemen, inalienable rights, North Korea.

The thing is the whole situation right across Europe and globally is still highly volatile. The issues with restrictions are not just in Ireland.

My advice would be for peace of mind and to save your well earned money - hold off until things are a bit more certain until at least the 19th and forget those advocating the Lanigan Ball style antics

#queue outrage

I saw your post and figured it would wind up people and I wasn’t wrong

Tbf though, no one has been running around like demented rabbits. Any chaos that has existed has been down to the lack of planning, communication and transparency of the government. You’re keen to go travelling again too no doubt, but you can’t deny how badly it’s all been managed.

Ireland has lost out given how Ryanair have routed their fleet for the summer and part of the autumn. Aer Lingus are goosed without further cuts and investment.

While you can laugh at the demented rabbits and i agree, that prior to June and vaccination it wasn’t a time for holidays. But the impact it’s left on the aviation and tourism sector, uncertainty for people who did have to travel for essential reasons is no laughing matter.

TefalBrain

gozunda wrote: »

Have to laugh - the general picture of people scurrying around like demented rabbits in the headlights hell bent on bending rules, coming up with imaginative "essential" reasons, lying and ducky and diving around an airport - all to go on a holiday for a bit of weather and booze or how's your father is a bit well frankly hillarious :pac:

Yeah and I know some who think there should be no restrictions whatsoever, something something freemen, inalienable rights, North Korea.

The thing is the whole situation right across Europe and globally is still highly volatile. The issues with restrictions are not just in Ireland.

My advice would be for peace of mind and to save your well earned money - hold off until things are a bit more certain until at least the 19th and forget those advocating the Lanigan Ball style antics

#queue outrage

It's easy saying hold off but a lot of flights are selling out or putting up their prices. In my particular example iv'e booked a trip to Spain with Brittany Ferries to tour the Pyrennes on my motorbike for August as soon as i had my first vaccination as i know i'll be fully vaccinated by the end of June.

Anywho the cabins on board are now sold out for those dates so in my example i couldn't have gone had i'd waited 4 more days to book.

There is no confusion or uncertainty, if you are fully vaccinated you will be able to leave Ireland and return without penalty after the 19th of July.

Red Silurian

faceman wrote: »

Unless the “experts” have evidence that it’s poor ventilation, then it’s not proven and detracts from flaws in the contact tracing system. Clearly there are issues with their contact tracing system.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-08/pandemic-proofing-buildings-with-better-ventilation/100123946

faceman wrote: »

Taken in isolation, yes. But at huge cost. The NZ vaccine campaign is terrible and the level of vaccine hesitancy on back of their approach to managing the pandemic is huge.

That is true, they've had a very costly 25 deaths in NZ and about a thousand in Australia. Of course we have also had a huge cost of almost 5000 deaths, not to mention the financial cost of closing our economy for the best part of a year

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