Fly me to the Moon - your 3rd travel Megathread - read OP

Valhallapt

bubblypop wrote: »

There is a list, a very extensive list, of reasons why your travel is necessary, maybe you should just read it?

The list is in fact very narrow and vague, deliberately so. It literally says
such reasonable excuse includes.... so its open ended and open to the opinion of the member of AGS. Hence it won't hold up if challenged in court.

The citizens information website states Other reasonable excuses that are not on this list may be accepted.

So in essence it's at the whim of the individual garda if you get a fine or not. I can't see how anyone who challenges this would have to pay it.

(a) work, comply with a contract of employment or contract for services, or otherwise engage in work or employment,
(b) without prejudice to the generality of subparagraph (a) -
(i) provide services to, or perform the functions of, an office holder appointed under any enactment or under the Constitution, or a member of either House of the Oireachtas, the European Parliament or a local authority, or
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(c)
(ii) provide services essential to the functioning of diplomatic missions and consular posts in the State,
attend, for educational reasons -
(i) a primary or secondary school, or
(ii) a university, higher education institution or other education and training facility,
to the extent that it is necessary for such educational reasons to attend in person,
accompany to a school referred to in subparagraph (c)(i), or to a university, higher education institution or other education and training facility referred to in subparagraph (c)(ii), any other person residing with the person, or a vulnerable person,
(d)
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(e) attend a medical or dental appointment, or accompany, to such an appointment, any other person residing with the person, or a vulnerable person,
(f) seek essential medical, health or dental assistance for the person, for any other person residing with the person, or for a vulnerable person,
(g) attend to vital family matters (including providing care to vulnerable persons),
(h) attend a funeral,
(i) fulfil a legal obligation (including attending court, satisfying bail conditions, or participating in ongoing legal proceedings), attend a court office where required, initiate emergency legal proceedings or execute essential legal documents,
(j) if the person is a parent or guardian of a child, or a person having a right of access to a child, give effect to arrangements for access to the child by -
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(i) the person, or
(ii) another person who is -
(I) a parent or guardian of the child, or
(II) a person having a right of access to the child, or
(k) where the person is not ordinarily resident in the State, leave the
State.

Klonker

bubblypop wrote: »

Sorry but it's nothing to do with whether your reason is 'good enough'
There's no such thing as a Garda security force either.......
There is a list, a very extensive list, of reasons why your travel is necessary, maybe you should just read it?

Let's take one of the 'essential reasons', to attend a funeral. Does it have to be some related or close to me? Could it be the father of the guy I went to school with? Do I need proof that I'm attending a funeral? If so what kind of proof is required?

I understand that the majority of guards will be lenient with this and its not the guards fault that they are having to enforce such strange laws but I certainly don't think it's very clear. If I had to travel now for a funeral I wouldn't know what would be expected from me if asked by a guard.

johnire

What’s the issue here? If your reason for travelling is one of those listed that’s ok if not you’re fined €2000 - what’s the problem? If you yourself are making the decision to travel that doesn’t meet one of the criteria then fine - no one is stopping you but you will be fined. That’s a choice you have to make.

Valhallapt wrote: »

The list is in fact very narrow and vague, deliberately so. It literally says
such reasonable excuse includes.... so its open ended and open to the opinion of the member of AGS. Hence it won't hold up if challenged in court.

The citizens information website states Other reasonable excuses that are not on this list may be accepted.

So in essence it's at the whim of the individual garda if you get a fine or not. I can't see how anyone who challenges this would have to pay it.

CruelSummer

Listened back to Michael O’Leary on Katie Hannon this morning. He’s 100% correct in everything he said.
- Why can fully vaccinated people from the U.K. not travel to the Republic when the border is fully open to the North of Ireland.
- Where is Eamon Ryan today, is he trying to contact airlines and try snd save the PSO routes affected by the Stobart Air collapse. He hasn’t made contact with Ryanair as of lunchtime.
- Why are the Government cynically making Irish families take PCR tests instead of approved / accredited antigen tests like the rest of Europe are doing.
- One interesting point he made is, the EU Covid Cert could come into operation for vaccinated Irish people in the morning if the Government wanted it to. Many countries have already connected and have it up and running.

https://twitter.com/eu_commission/status/1401516219337871361?s=21

dublin_paul

bubblypop wrote: »

Sorry but it's nothing to do with whether your reason is 'good enough'
There's no such thing as a Garda security force either.......
There is a list, a very extensive list, of reasons why your travel is necessary, maybe you should just read it?

Those 2 girls who got surgery in Dubai have been destroyed by the government, they had surgery like? Yeah it's cosmetic but so what? So seeing this it's no suprise people are paronoid about travelling... If we even give a reasonable excuse from the list of "essential travel" like they did: medical appointment you're still not safe from the gestapo

Valhallapt

Valhallapt wrote: »

The list is in fact very narrow and vague, deliberately so. It literally says
such reasonable excuse includes.... so its open ended and open to the opinion of the member of AGS. Hence it won't hold up if challenged in court.

The citizens information website states Other reasonable excuses that are not on this list may be accepted.

So in essence it's at the whim of the individual garda if you get a fine or not. I can't see how anyone who challenges this would have to pay it.

What part of that is vague???
Seems perfectly fine to me.
If you prefer you can go, take your fine, don't pay it and argue your case in court, as is your right. go

It's not a whim

Valhallapt

johnire wrote: »

What’s the issue here? If your reason for travelling is one of those listed that’s ok if not you’re fined €2000 - what’s the problem? If you yourself are making the decision to travel that doesn’t meet one of the criteria then fine - no one is stopping you but you will be fined. That’s a choice you have to make.

I want to

seek essential medical, health or dental assistance

By visiting magaluf and getting prices for a tooth filling. Do I need to provide proof to the gardai that I am “seeking” such assistance, how do I do that?, what if my seek is unsuccessful and I don’t get the dental assistance??

Klonker

Klonker wrote: »

Let's take one of the 'essential reasons', to attend a funeral. Does it have to be some related or close to me? Could it be the father of the guy I went to school with? Do I need proof that I'm attending a funeral? If so what kind of proof is required?

I understand that the majority of guards will be lenient with this and its not the guards fault that they are having to enforce such strange laws but I certainly don't think it's very clear. If I had to travel now for a funeral I wouldn't know what would be expected from me if asked by a guard.

You: ' I'm going to a funeral, my aunt, in England's
Guard: ' ok, sorry for your loss'
Not that difficult
#rolleyes#

stephenjmcd

CruelSummer wrote: »

Listened back to Michael O’Leary on Katie Hannon this morning. He’s 100% correct in everything he said.
- Why can fully vaccinated people from the U.K. not travel to the Republic when the border is fully open to the North of Ireland.
- Where is Eamon Ryan today, is he trying to contact airlines and try snd save the PSO routes affected by the Stobart Air collapse. He hasn’t made contact with Ryanair as of lunchtime.
- Why are the Government cynically making Irish families take PCR tests instead of approved / accredited antigen tests like the rest of Europe are doing.
- One interesting point he made is, the EU Covid Cert could come into operation for vaccinated Irish people in the morning if the Government wanted it to. Many countries have already connected and have it up and running.

https://twitter.com/eu_commission/status/1401516219337871361?s=21

Why would he make contact with him over the PSO routes ?

You know there's threads on this in the aviation forum.

FR aircraft are too large for some of the airports the PSO routes serve. They couldn't operate Donegal - Dublin for example.

More likely city jet for example would be able to operate all routes if they tendered for it it.

In the meantime Aer Lingus & BA city flyer are going to operate most of the routes

Valhallapt

Valhallapt wrote: »

I want to

seek essential medical, health or dental assistance

By visiting magaluf and getting prices for a tooth filling. Do I need to provide proof to the gardai that I am “seeking” such assistance, how do I do that?, what if my seek is unsuccessful and I don’t get the dental assistance??

Just go airside before 7am which is when the Airport Garda station opens or wait until July 19th
Keep washing your teeth

Valhallapt

bubblypop wrote: »

What part of that is vague???
Seems perfectly fine to me.
If you prefer you can go, take your fine, don't pay it and argue your case in court, as is your right. go

It's not a whim

I take it to court and win, but what about the stress it has put me under, going to magaluf seeking dental assistance for two weeks and failing to get it is stressful enough, without having a garda wrongly interpreting a vague law, slandering me, calling me a liar, haven’t slept in two weeks judge. I think I would deserve not only compensation, but disciplinary action taken against the gardai involved.

There is a very big difference between a gardai not insisting on the letter of a robust law being enforced and the gardai acting as judge and jury and deciding what is essential or not.

votecounts

dublin_paul wrote: »

Those 2 girls who got surgery in Dubai have been destroyed by the government, they had surgery like? Yeah it's cosmetic but so what? So seeing this it's no suprise people are paronoid about travelling... If we even give a reasonable excuse from the list of "essential travel" like they did: medical appointment you're still not safe from the gestapo

Did they actually get Surgery, thought they didn't and just used it as a reason. Still shouldn't have been made public though

Valhallapt

Marine Layer wrote: »

Just go airside before 7am which is when the Airport Garda station opens or wait until July 19th
Keep washing your teeth

The gestapo want me to start brushing my teeth now!

Valhallapt

Valhallapt wrote: »

The gestapo want me to start brushing my teeth now!

Yes,it helps you pass the pcr test maybe but to be sure,use antiseptic on the brush first

Seriously though,have you any actual plans to fly before July 19th or are you just talking for talk sake?

CruelSummer

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Why would he make contact with him over the PSO routes ?

You know there's threads on this in the aviation forum.

FR aircraft are too large for some of the airports the PSO routes serve. They couldn't operate Donegal - Dublin for example.

More likely city jet for example would be able to operate all routes if they tendered for it it.

In the meantime Aer Lingus & BA city flyer are going to operate most of the routes

Ryanair were offering to repatriate stranded passengers. Transport minister should be making contact.

Valhallapt

Valhallapt wrote: »

I take it to court and win, but what about the stress it has put me under, going to magaluf seeking dental assistance for two weeks and failing to get it is stressful enough, without having a garda wrongly interpreting a vague law, slandering me, calling me a liar, haven’t slept in two weeks judge. I think I would deserve not only compensation, but disciplinary action taken against the gardai involved.

There is a very big difference between a gardai not insisting on the letter of a robust law being enforced and the gardai acting as judge and jury and deciding what is essential or not.

Perhaps you have heard of discretion?
Gardai have it and use it every single day. They interpret the law and decide whether to use it every single day.
Have an issue with gardai doing their job? If ya pop there to GSOC and put in a complaint.

Marine Layer

Marine Layer wrote: »

Just go airside before 7am which is when the Airport Garda station opens or wait until July 19th
Keep washing your teeth

The station is 24 / 7.

stephenjmcd

CruelSummer wrote: »

Ryanair were offering to repatriate stranded passengers. Transport minister should be making contact.

There's nobody going to be left stranded. Routes are resuming tomorrow and those that aren't Aer Lingus are making alternative arrangements for passengers

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Perhaps you have heard of discretion?
Gardai have it and use it every single day. They interpret the law and decide whether to use it every single day.
Have an issue with gardai doing their job? If ya pop there to GSOC and put in a complaint.

No no, it's far more logical to award compensation and sack Gardai when they lose a court case.

votecounts

votecounts wrote: »

Did they actually get Surgery, thought they didn't and just used it as a reason. Still shouldn't have been made public though

They did not. It's very public to anyone that reads. They admitted it in court.

Those that like to just make up lies however.....

Valhallapt

bubblypop wrote: »

Perhaps you have heard of discretion?
Gardai have it and use it every single day. They interpret the law and decide whether to use it every single day.
Have an issue with gardai doing their job? If ya pop there to GSOC and put in a complaint.

My problem is not with the Garda discretion, it’s the law that’s an ass.

It is virtually unenforceable as it was never designed to be, it was designed to purely put the fear into people who want to travel.

Niner leprauchan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The station is 24 / 7.

It wasn't in November 19 last time I was there
When did it start to open 24/7 ?

Valhallapt

Marine Layer wrote: »

Yes,it helps you pass the pcr test maybe but to be sure,use antiseptic on the brush first

Seriously though,have you any actual plans to fly before July 19th or are you just talking for talk sake?

I have flights from DUB booked on the 25th June and flights from Belfast on the 27th June as an insurance policy

Valhallapt

Valhallapt wrote: »

I have flights from DUB booked on the 25th June and flights from Belfast on the 27th June as an insurance policy

Sure move them
They're flexible

Valhallapt

Valhallapt wrote: »

My problem is not with the Garda discretion, it’s the law that’s an ass.

It is virtually unenforceable as it was never designed to be, it was designed to purely put the fear into people who want to travel.

Right and right, you are correct.
So why the big moan about it, all the time??
It will be gone soon.

Marine Layer

Marine Layer wrote: »

It wasn't in November 19 last time I was there
When did it start to open 24/7 ?

If the doors are closed, it doesn't mean that the gardai are not working!
It just means the public counter is not open.

johnire

If it’s so unenforceable then what’s the issue?

Valhallapt wrote: »

My problem is not with the Garda discretion, it’s the law that’s an ass.

It is virtually unenforceable as it was never designed to be, it was designed to purely put the fear into people who want to travel.

Valhallapt

johnire wrote: »

If it’s so unenforceable then what’s the issue?

I’ll go regardless. I can afford the fine if I had to pay it.

Because it’s deeply unfair. Many people have families not on this island. We are the only part of the European Union that fines fully vaccinated families for reuniting, if they go via a port, many can’t afford the fine. Only country in Europe. But every time someone get on this thread to discuss work around they are branded a criminal or told its like that everywhere, it’s not.

CruelSummer

stephenjmcd wrote: »

There's nobody going to be left stranded. Routes are resuming tomorrow and those that aren't Aer Lingus are making alternative arrangements for passengers

Alternative arrangements that could involve them getting on Ryanair planes or others. It’s not business as usual. Aerlingus have cancelled many flights even post July 19th. Ireland could lose a lot of connectivity, jobs and tourists which will devastate the economy further.

stephenjmcd

CruelSummer wrote: »

Alternative arrangements that could involve them getting on Ryanair planes or others. It’s not business as usual. Aerlingus have cancelled many flights even post July 19th. Ireland could lose a lot of connectivity, jobs and tourists which will devastate the economy further.

What has EI cancelling flights after the 19th going to do with Stobart going bang ??

This is getting off topic, there's threads in the aviation forum discussing this