Fly me to the Moon - your 3rd travel Megathread - read OP

Dr. Em

SJFly wrote: »

What's he harmonised 48 hour interval? I'm finding it really hard to keep up with all the changes.

Right now, some EU/EEA countries are requiring tests taken less than 72 hours prior to flying, others specify less than 48 hours or even 24 hours, and have different requirements for different tests. It is a dizzying patchwork.
The EU Digital Covid certificate is supposed to provide one standard for PCR tests and one for rapid antigen tests. It will also set a standard for vaccination validity and for people who have recovered from covid.
There is a summary here: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_21_2781

And here is the relevant section:

//'Will there be a minimum validity of the certificates?

On 31 May, the Commission proposed to update the Council recommendation on the coordination of the travel measures, which includes standard validity periods for tests: 72 hours for PCR tests and, where accepted by a Member State, 48 hours for rapid antigen tests.

The Regulation also introduces some basic principles, for example, setting the maximum validity period of the certificate of recovery at 180 days. These principles could be adjusted by the Commission on the basis of new scientific evidence. The Regulation in any case ensures that certificates issued by other Member States are accepted following the same rules as the ones applied to nationally issued certificates.

There is no maximum validity foreseen for vaccination certificates, as this will depend on emerging scientific evidence as to the length of protection of the different vaccines.'//

FintanMcluskey

faceman wrote: »

Once again, he’s the only one challenging the keystone coalition and his lord highness Hulahoop in a factual and meaningful way.

https://twitter.com/mlmcnamaratd/status/1405192024672845824?s=24

He’s missing a crucial piece of scientific information that Tony is factoring into his consideration regarding antigen tests

Paddy Irishman is a knuckle dragging caveman who would act inappropriately with a negative antigen test

fm

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes, with the caveat that passengers will have to take a PCR on arrival as well.

Yes, no way will they allow antigen only.

Here is some text from the reopen eu site regarding entry into Ireland -

"From 19 July, subject to the prevailing public health situation, Ireland will operate the EU Digital COVID Certificate (DCC) for travel originating within the EU/EEA.

A DCC will show if a passenger:

is vaccinated against COVID-19;
has recovered from COVID-19; or
has a negative test result
Passengers arriving into Ireland with a DCC will not have to undergo quarantine.

However, passengers with a DCC based on a non-PCR test (for example, antigen), or those arriving without a DCC, will require proof of a negative RT-PCR test taken no more than 72 hours before arrival.

Children aged between 7 and 18 who have not been vaccinated must also have a negative PCR test."

Klonker

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

He’s missing a crucial piece of scientific information that Tony is factoring into his consideration regarding antigen tests

Paddy Irishman is a knuckle dragging caveman who would act inappropriately with a negative antigen test

This. Was the same with masks. And I don't know where it comes from. We have vaccine uptake rates that are the envy of the world yet we are not to be trusted even though all our international counterparts are by their governments/ health experts.

SJFly

Dr. Em wrote: »

On 31 May, the Commission proposed to update the Council recommendation on the coordination of the travel measures, which includes standard validity periods for tests: 72 hours for PCR tests and, where accepted by a Member State, 48 hours for rapid antigen tests.

The Regulation also introduces some basic principles, for example, setting the maximum validity period of the certificate of recovery at 180 days. These principles could be adjusted by the Commission on the basis of new scientific evidence. The Regulation in any case ensures that certificates issued by other Member States are accepted following the same rules as the ones applied to nationally issued certificates.

There is no maximum validity foreseen for vaccination certificates, as this will depend on emerging scientific evidence as to the length of protection of the different vaccines.'//

Thanks for the very detailed reply. Extremely helpful.

Is the 48/72 hour window from departure or arrival? I'm planning a ferry trip to France in August and trying to work out all the logistics.

Dr. Em

Dr. Em wrote: »

The pressure is certainly on them. My bets would be on antigen tests being allowed from 19th not 1 July though.
It will be interesting to see if any countries who are currently accepting antigen tests taken less than 24 hours prior to departure will keep them once the testing interval is harmonised to 48 hours, or if any will drop them.

Can they do that? From the 1st are we not signed up to the system?

Marine Layer wrote: »

How can they accept a green cert that Ireland won't have issued on July 1st?

You can still have the paper result just like now

pooman

Dr. Em wrote: »

No, unfortunately it doesn't look like that. According to the EU/EEA vaccine tracker, Ireland is ahead on the percentage of adults with at least one dose:
https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker-mobile.html#uptake-tab

At a guess, some of the difference could be down to the Irish summer, (i.e. more closed-in heated buildings, more people indoors, less ventilation), and the Delta variant probably isn't helping.

Or higher PCR cycles during testing..

M_Murphy57

SJFly wrote: »

Thanks for the very detailed reply. Extremely helpful.

Is the 48/72 hour window from departure or arrival? I'm planning a ferry trip to France in August and trying to work out all the logistics.

Yes I cant figure that out either.

Also does the 72 hours start when you get swabbed or when you get your results?

And does it need to be valid until departure or until landing ?

M_Murphy57

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Yes I cant figure that out either.

Also does the 72 hours start when you get swabbed or when you get your results?

And does it need to be valid until departure or until landing ?

From the swab and depends on country but most seem to be arrival

Lumen

SJFly wrote: »

Thanks for the very detailed reply. Extremely helpful.

Is the 48/72 hour window from departure or arrival? I'm planning a ferry trip to France in August and trying to work out all the logistics.

Currently France is departure and Ireland is arrival. Both are timed from when the test is taken not when you are notified of the result.

Only trust official government websites. Media are misreporting.

https://mobile.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Certificate-of-international-travel

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b4020-travelling-to-ireland-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

Van.Bosch

Klonker wrote: »

This. Was the same with masks. And I don't know where it comes from. We have vaccine uptake rates that are the envy of the world yet we are not to be trusted even though all our international counterparts are by their governments/ health experts.

But no one is saying let the public do their own antigen tests - people want lab completed antigen tests to be recognised for travel.

M_Murphy57

Van.Bosch wrote: »

But no one is saying let the public do their own antigen tests - people want lab completed antigen tests to be recognised for travel.

Yeah but the lads working in the lab are Irish too.

What if *they* put butter or gin & tonics into your test to tamper with the result?

Theres no end to our thickness/untrustability as a nation tbf.

Wallander

https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1405271439322730500

Dr. Em

SJFly wrote: »

Thanks for the very detailed reply. Extremely helpful.

Is the 48/72 hour window from departure or arrival? I'm planning a ferry trip to France in August and trying to work out all the logistics.

Good question. It isn't spelled out in any of the links in the paragraph, as far as I can see. The wording 'standard validity period' applies to the certificate, which could be taken to mean that the certificate will only be valid 48/72 hours after the test was administered. That implies that you would need to have finished travelling, i.e. be in the destination country before the end of that time period. If you are planing a trip, that assumption wold be safer in any case, since they couldn't refuse you for having taken a test more recently than necessary.

goingnowhere

Its the time from sample taken until you present at the immigration or other check point on arrival.

Chris_5339762

Public sector block on travel is still in place.... no non essential travel until the 19th. You have to inform your employer if you are going abroad and must book leave for the 14 days upon your return.

You cannot work from home by default during this time.

1) If you do not avail of the HSEs Day 5 PCR test, then you must stay at home for 14 days and cannot WFH.
2) If you do avail of the HSEs Day 5 PCR test, you cannot WFH for Day 1 - 5, but can WFH for Day 6 - 14. You still cannot go back to work from day 6 - 14. They have openly said that this is "in addition to" the general government requirements.

I can still see a "no non essential travel" or some other restrictive **** for public sector staff come the 19th July. I can't see them opening the floodgates. There'll be something.

Of course this would the thrown out of court very quickly, but no-one has taken this policy to court yet.

Hellrazer

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Yes I cant figure that out either.

Also does the 72 hours start when you get swabbed or when you get your results?

And does it need to be valid until departure or until landing ?

My daughter went off to Italy to work for the summer 2 weeks ago and theres was " Scheduled Departure Time" - Flight was a Monday morning.

She had to fly- Dublin - Stansted@ 9.00am and Stansted - Venice @ 12.30
I rang a pcr testing place, gave them the flight times and they told me to make sure she was tested after 12.15 on the Friday to cover her for both flights.
We tested on the Saturday so it didnt really matter too much.

They also told me its always based on the scheduled departure time because if a flight was delayed etc then the person couldnt really be held responsible as they tested in good faith based on the flight time.

Dr. Em

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Can they do that? From the 1st are we not signed up to the system?

It really depends how they interpret this:

//Will Member States have to accept anyone travelling with PCR/Rapid antigen test?
In line with the Regulation, if a Member State accepts a test certificate for waiving travel restrictions, it should also accept holders of an EU Digital COVID test certificate under the same conditions. If a Member State lifts restrictions only for holders of PCR tests, it is not required to accept rapid antigen tests. However, if it accepts rapid antigen tests then it must also accept rapid antigen test certificates issued by another Member State.'//

My reading is that there is nothing preventing Ireland accepting certificates issued in other member states on a PCR only on July 1 and then changing the rules to accept antigen tests as well when the certificate is finally being issued here on 19 July. The text makes a point that they would have to recognise antigen tests from other member states equally if they recognise antigen tests at all, but it doesn't seem to prevent them from changing their minds. Your guess is as good as mine though.

Chris_5339762

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Public sector block on travel is still in place.... no non essential travel until the 19th. You have to inform your employer if you are going abroad and must book leave for the 14 days upon your return.

You cannot work from home by default during this time.

1) If you do not avail of the HSEs Day 5 PCR test, then you must stay at home for 14 days and cannot WFH.
2) If you do avail of the HSEs Day 5 PCR test, you cannot WFH for Day 1 - 5, but can WFH for Day 6 - 14. You still cannot go back to work from day 6 - 14. They have openly said that this is "in addition to" the general government requirements.

I can still see a "no non essential travel" or some other restrictive **** for public sector staff come the 19th July. I can't see them opening the floodgates. There'll be something.

Of course this would the thrown out of court very quickly, but no-one has taken this policy to court yet.

Does that include teachers?
Don't see how that holiday abroad rule can stand up after 19th if there's no legal requirement to self isolate

funnydoggy

I was under the impression that fully vaccinated individuals can come here from the UK without quarantine.. what kinda sense is there in the 5 day quarantine period? Family member coming over early July and we thought he'd be fine. F'ck sake.

Tazz T

Dr. Em wrote: »

It really depends how they interpret this:

//Will Member States have to accept anyone travelling with PCR/Rapid antigen test?
In line with the Regulation, if a Member State accepts a test certificate for waiving travel restrictions, it should also accept holders of an EU Digital COVID test certificate under the same conditions. If a Member State lifts restrictions only for holders of PCR tests, it is not required to accept rapid antigen tests. However, if it accepts rapid antigen tests then it must also accept rapid antigen test certificates issued by another Member State.'//

My reading is that there is nothing preventing Ireland accepting certificates issued in other member states on a PCR only on July 1 and then changing the rules to accept antigen tests as well when the certificate is finally being issued here on 19 July. The text makes a point that they would have to recognise antigen tests from other member states equally if they recognise antigen tests at all, but it doesn't seem to prevent them from changing their minds. Your guess is as good as mine though.

As usual, it's as clear as mud, but this is my understanding too. They accept the cert from other states on 1st July, just keep the non-essential travel ban in place for us until 19th.

The fallout will be epic.

TomSweeney

FYI Spain to drop the nonsensical outdoor mask wearing law soon - I'm hearing from July 1


https://english.elpais.com/spain/2021-06-16/spanish-pm-announces-that-face-masks-will-soon-not-be-mandatory-outdoors.html

TomSweeney

Am planning to come back to Ireland (from Spain) in August, wife and myself will be vaccinated, kids are 9 and 5.

From what I am reading about the EU green pass we will be able to bypass PCR's and quarantine, and kids under 12 don't need PCR's either ,
is this the case ?

Wallander

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

1) If you do not avail of the HSEs Day 5 PCR test, then you must stay at home for 14 days and cannot WFH.
2) If you do avail of the HSEs Day 5 PCR test, you cannot WFH for Day 1 - 5, but can WFH for Day 6 - 14. You still cannot go back to work from day 6 - 14. They have openly said that this is "in addition to" the general government requirements.

This is insane. Please someone point out any public health logic behind this rather than using HR muscle to force people to tow along to a government policy choice. Had your PCR test after day 5? Good Doggy, here's your little treat now, you can work at home if you like!

Skippette

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Public sector block on travel is still in place.... no non essential travel until the 19th. You have to inform your employer if you are going abroad and must book leave for the 14 days upon your return.

You cannot work from home by default during this time.

1) If you do not avail of the HSEs Day 5 PCR test, then you must stay at home for 14 days and cannot WFH.
2) If you do avail of the HSEs Day 5 PCR test, you cannot WFH for Day 1 - 5, but can WFH for Day 6 - 14. You still cannot go back to work from day 6 - 14. They have openly said that this is "in addition to" the general government requirements.

I can still see a "no non essential travel" or some other restrictive **** for public sector staff come the 19th July. I can't see them opening the floodgates. There'll be something.

Of course this would the thrown out of court very quickly, but no-one has taken this policy to court yet.

But as you said from the 19th the DCC applies. So a PS/CS worker cannot be discriminated against someone working in the Private sector.

If you go away before the 19th, the above rules apply. If after and within the EU there shouldn't be any issue.

Your boss/line manger may still have to be told in case you decide after the 19th to go on a round the world trip(tongue firmly in cheek) and the handbrake mechanism is applied which may result in extra tests or quarantine.

That's my reading of it anyways?

M_Murphy57

TomSweeney wrote: »

Am planning to come back to Ireland (from Spain) in August, wife and myself will be vaccinated, kids are 9 and 5.

From what I am reading about the EU green pass we will be able to bypass PCR's and quarantine, and kids under 12 don't need PCR's either ,
is this the case ?

At the moment ireland insist on PCRs for children arriving over age 7. That could change post 19/07 but there has been no mention that it will.

We like to be an outlier in as many ways as possible and ensure we throttle the aviation industry in as many ways as we can.

facehugger99

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Public sector block on travel is still in place.... no non essential travel until the 19th. You have to inform your employer if you are going abroad and must book leave for the 14 days upon your return.

You cannot work from home by default during this time.

1) If you do not avail of the HSEs Day 5 PCR test, then you must stay at home for 14 days and cannot WFH.
2) If you do avail of the HSEs Day 5 PCR test, you cannot WFH for Day 1 - 5, but can WFH for Day 6 - 14. You still cannot go back to work from day 6 - 14. They have openly said that this is "in addition to" the general government requirements.

I can still see a "no non essential travel" or some other restrictive **** for public sector staff come the 19th July. I can't see them opening the floodgates. There'll be something.

Of course this would the thrown out of court very quickly, but no-one has taken this policy to court yet.

Why anyone would inform their employer of what they are up to in their free time baffles me.

They have absolutely no right to know.

The subservience of the Irish people during the last 15 months has been embarrassing to witness. Many people don't place any values on their civil liberties.

TomSweeney

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

At the moment ireland insist on PCRs for children arriving over age 7. That could change post 19/07 but there has been no mention that it will.

We like to be an outlier in as many ways as possible and ensure we throttle the aviation industry in as many ways as we can.

But surely they have to follow the EU laws on this ?

Hellrazer

facehugger99 wrote: »

Why anyone would inform their employer of what they are up to in their free time baffles me.

They have absolutely no right to know.

Exactly - this pandemic has really shown the good companies and bad companies to work for.

My boss doesnt care as long as its not on a "red list" somewhere and requires mandatory quarantine.

A friend of mines company is trying to insist on 2 weeks quarantine when he comes back from Spain in August.

He made the mistake of telling the company where hes going - when he either should have said Donegal for 2 weeks or mind your own business.

A lot of employers are breaking not just health regulations but also employment laws throughout this mess and I foresee a big jump in WRC cases.

TomSweeney

Hellrazer wrote: »

Exactly - this pandemic has really shown the good companies and bad companies to work for.

My boss doesnt care as long as its not on a "red list" somewhere and requires mandatory quarantine.

A friend of mines company is trying to insist on 2 weeks quarantine when he comes back from Spain in August.

He made the mistake of telling the company where hes going - when he either should have said Donegal for 2 weeks or mind your own business.

A lot of employers are breaking not just health regulations but also employment laws throughout this mess and I foresee a big jump in WRC cases.

Is he vaccinated ?