Fly me to the Moon - your 3rd travel Megathread - read OP

Too many journalists asking questions because they've nothing to write about
Too many twitter 'experts' moaning

Even this morning's Irish Times,the paper of record has the WRONG information about AstraZeneca efficacy unnecessarily scaring the bejaysis out of a couple of hundred 1000 still waiting on a 2nd jab

Seek obfuscation and ye shall find
It is deliberate

faceman

faceman wrote: »

They can’t do that.

They can make full vaccination mandatory for air travel though
Someone will bring it to court and by the time its heard fully,everyone is eligible

If it is recommended that only the vaccinated travel, is that likely to include their children? I know some people have the confidence to brave it out and just go anyway, but I am finding it a nightmare with children. I have to start every sentence about our holiday to the children with "If we get to go, because of covid".

M_Murphy57

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If it is recommended that only the vaccinated travel, is that likely to include their children? I know some people have the confidence to brave it out but I am finding it a nightmare with children. I have to start every sentence about our holiday to the children with "If we get to go, because of covid".

Recommended and allowed are 2 different things but even Tony said he wouldnt comment on whether children should travel because there is no option for them to vaccinated.

Most EU states introducing no tests for under 12s and others giving children the same quarantine status as their parents.

Dont expect clarity on it from the irish govt though. Currently over 7s need a PCR test to enter. I'd travel on the assumption your kids will need a test to return and just ignore all the noise until closer to the time.

Gael23

spockety wrote: »

Maybe the DCC is for all, but still a 2k fine for unvaccinated doing unnecessary travel...

That would be challenged in court and be likely ruled as discrimination.

Accidentally

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Can you point me to the direct quote from MM you are referring to? Because this is how it read to me:

Leo V: "vaccinated people should be allowed travel"
Indo: "Tainiste indicates unvaccinated may not be allowed to travel"

Do you see the difference?

The indo is a steaming pile of garbage that just prints lies and clickbait, it's worse than the Daily Mail.

The govt routinely use RTE and the Irish mirror for kite flying. Unless one of those print a direct quote from MM saying they are flying in the face of EU law and introducing vaccine apartheid then I think we can all just ignore that indo article. It's just garbage gutter journalism.

To be honest, I'd always look at what Leo says, and more importantly what he doesn't say. His language is rarely by accident.

I fully agree that the Indo is a rag

spockety

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Can you point me to the direct quote from MM you are referring to? Because this is how it read to me:

Leo V: "vaccinated people should be allowed travel"
Indo: "Tainiste indicates unvaccinated may not be allowed to travel"

Do you see the difference?

The indo is a steaming pile of garbage that just prints lies and clickbait, it's worse than the Daily Mail.

The govt routinely use RTE and the Irish mirror for kite flying. Unless one of those print a direct quote from MM saying they are flying in the face of EU law and introducing vaccine apartheid then I think we can all just ignore that indo article. It's just garbage gutter journalism.

Yes I do indeed see the difference.

Mr Martin met Tánaiste Leo Varadkar and Green Party leader Eamon Ryan last night to discuss the situation ahead of a Government decision next week. “I can’t be definitive today,” the Taoiseach said.

Speaking at Government Buildings last night, he also cast doubt over current plans to allow foreign travel to resume on July 19, indicating these could be altered so people who are not vaccinated are advised against travelling.

“I don’t see an issue with fully vaccinated people travelling,” he said.

The Government decided to join the European Digital Covid Certificate, “which involves both vaccination, recovery from Covid – that you can certify that you’ve recovered from Covid – and the negative PCR test”.

"Now it depends on the type of advice we get from Nphet in the context of the Delta variant data that will factor in and the Government has to consider this,” he said.

This also echoes Donnelly this morning on MI, he clearly said something along the lines of "The DCC allows for three things as things stand - Vaccinated, a negative PCR test, or lab confirmed COVID in the last 9 months. Those criteria could change depending on NPHET advice over the coming weeks in terms of the Delta variant."

Solobally8

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I would disagree. For the extra 20, it's less hassle. You still have people that don't recognize antigen plus within countries, some places accept pcr for longer.

As an example, of traveling via the UK Ryanair will not accept antigen even where it's asked by the country of travel.

Within some countries, you need regular tests to access social facilities and hotels. Antigen is valid for 72 hours but you get a full week for a pcr.

The good news for those vaccinated, so far for me no one has had an issue with just a picture of the vaccine card on my phone. Not even the original (which I didn't want to travel with).

Also, I know the border is brought up a lot as a loophole so just to point out, few if any countries are stopping and checking cross corder trains.

Bratislava to Prague, I wasn't stopped by any border official at any stage. Same for Spain into France.

You will see that I was just responding to that particular person’s situation in which he is traveling to Spain and only needs the antigen. I’m not interested in other countries so didn’t comment on them, just his specific situation.

Tazz T

Unhappy that the delta variant hasn't been the killer they've hoped would shift papers, a number of media outlets are now pushing the 'delta plus' variant of concern as the next big thing.

Hospital cases now under 40 and continuing to fall. When do it call it safe to reopen, when we hit zero cases in hospital?

M_Murphy57

spockety wrote: »

Yes I do indeed see the difference.



This also echoes Donnelly this morning on MI, he clearly said something along the lines of "The DCC allows for three things as things stand - Vaccinated, a negative PCR test, or lab confirmed COVID in the last 9 months. Those criteria could change depending on NPHET advice over the coming weeks in terms of the Delta variant."

So Donnelly said "something along the lines of" ireland is going rogue and introducing it's own version of the DCC? If what you've recounted is accurate then that's vaccine apartheid.

Even a cynic like me finds it impossible to believe the govt would be stupid enough to restrict freedom of movement to people who have taken a vaccine.

We also have only your interpretation of what he said to go on. When I see those words published on rte I'll believe it.

Saying they will "consider" nphet advice is just standard arse covering that the indo have again twisted into facts and doom mongering.

Tenzor07

Mr.S wrote: »

Leo clearly pissed off Tony with his remarks and now Michael is trying to be the middle man. This is soap-opera level stuff.
I actually think Leo's explanation about NPHET Advice vs Government action was very transparent - struck me as very 'we need to just get on with things'.
Comments from MM and other ministers yesterday struck me as the 'safe' option, just saying there is always the possibility COVID can change things, which is true. Unless things change drastically, I think International travel will go ahead as planned.

You're right, it's an episode of "Fair City" with these clowns, the ruthless dictator Holohan, Fr. Dougal Donnelly Maguire, "Ego Leak Varadkar" and MMartin as "The Principal" trying to keep his Fine Failing party together...as the most unpopular political group in Government...apart from Sleepy Eamon's Greens...

The highest paid Political respresentatives in Europe who are paid Golden salaries to lead the country forward but have instead left the course of the countries actions to one bullet-proof highly paid CMO...

What will it take for the many 1000's of Civil/public servants and others who want to travel to wake up from their deskside slumber and start to protest at these over the top restrictions?

M_Murphy57

Mr.S wrote: »

Leo clearly pissed off Tony with his remarks and now Michael is trying to be the middle man. This is soap-opera level stuff.

I actually think Leo's explanation about NPHET Advice vs Government action was very transparent - struck me as very 'we need to just get on with things'.

Comments from MM and other ministers yesterday struck me as the 'safe' option, just saying there is always the possibility COVID can change things, which is true. Unless things change drastically, I think International travel will go ahead as planned.

Agree with this.

Klonker

Mr.S wrote: »

Leo clearly pissed off Tony with his remarks and now Michael is trying to be the middle man. This is soap-opera level stuff.

I actually think Leo's explanation about NPHET Advice vs Government action was very transparent - struck me as very 'we need to just get on with things'.

Comments from MM and other ministers yesterday struck me as the 'safe' option, just saying there is always the possibility COVID can change things, which is true. Unless things change drastically, I think International travel will go ahead as planned.

I'm not so sure Tony won't get his way. Will play it that it can only be travel or indoor dining. We need few weeks in between to see effects of indoor dining bla bla bla.

It's petty and power hungry stuff from Tony. At least people who would have thought this a ridiculous claim previously are finally starting to see it for what it is.

Chris_5339762

What might happen is they'll announce that vaccinated can travel, but that they continue to not recommend non-essential travel by non vaccinated people. That will obfuscate travel insurance plans and families.

I can see a two week delay to the July 19th date.

I'm vaccinated and plan to get away late August/early Sept (before Cork airport closes). Not booking anything just yet with all this messing around, and the other problem of the public sector lock on travel too.

spockety

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

So Donnelly said "something along the lines of" ireland is going rogue and introducing it's own version of the DCC? If what you've recounted is accurate then that's vaccine apartheid.

Even a cynic like me finds it impossible to believe the govt would be stupid enough to restrict freedom of movement to people who have taken a vaccine.

We also have only your interpretation of what he said to go on. When I see those words published on rte I'll believe it.

Saying they will "consider" nphet advice is just standard arse covering that the indo have again twisted into facts and doom mongering.

Jaysus ok, I've found his exact words.

"Current government policy is that there will be essentially unimpeded travel within the EU and any other partner countries, once you have the Digital Covid Certificate. Now we have chosen three things that qualify for that, you're fully vaccinated, or you have had a PCR test within three days, or you have a lab confirmed COVID infection yourself within nine months. And that's CURRENT government policy. As with all of these things, if we were to get very strong public health advice saying that because the Delta variant is now raging in various countries, so I met the Portuguese Health Minister last week for example and she was telling me that as of last week it was more than 40% of new cases in Portugal.. well that's somewhere obviously we go and people would be intending going on holidays, so right now government policy is all three criteria, count, as with everything in COVID were we to get strong public health advice to the contrary we would obviously take that under consideration.."

Interviewer: "It could be narrowed to vaccinated only...?"

Donnelly : "Well that conversation isn't happening at the moment. What we know is the Chief Medical Officer has raised his concerns, from a public health perspective. But government policy is all three criteria. IF we get strong public health advice we will take that under consideration."

And if you still don't trust me.. you can listen for yourself. About 1:19 in.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/share/radio1/11318696

CruelSummer

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

What might happen is they'll announce that vaccinated can travel, but that they continue to not recommend non-essential travel by non vaccinated people. That will obfuscate travel insurance plans and families.

I can see a two week delay to the July 19th date.

I'm vaccinated and plan to get away late August/early Sept (before Cork airport closes). Not booking anything just yet with all this messing around, and the other problem of the public sector lock on travel too.

This is an absolute joke. They are not holding us hostage here while our EU counterparts travel. We are either a part of the DCC and EU or we are not.
Dr Tony does not decide government policy - election please.

FlubberJones

I've tried making plans but working around the restrictions in Ireland then working with the ones in destination was proving waaaay too much hassle.

I've penciled in plans for UK, Ita and Las Vegas in the next three / four months so I simply have to wait and see how things pan out.

But being fully vaxed and hopefully certified by the 19th I have t expect it to be a far better opportunity.

Fann Linn

CruelSummer wrote: »

This is an absolute joke. They are not holding us hostage here while our EU counterparts travel. We are either a part of the DCC and EU or we are not.
Dr Tony does not decide government policy - election please.

Well then ye better get onto your local FFG TD and let them know. This crowd will offload their responsibility to Nphet/ Holohan if they can.

I'm in the comfortable position that both my wife and myself are fully vaccinated so I'm hopeful, but if I were in any other category I don't think I'd feel confident booking a holiday with MM and Donnelly in charge.

Hellrazer

CruelSummer wrote: »

This is an absolute joke. They are not holding us hostage here while our EU counterparts travel. We are either a part of the DCC and EU or we are not.
Dr Tony does not decide government policy - election please.

Fann Linn wrote: »

Well then ye better get onto your local FFG TD and let them know. This crowd will offload their responsibility to Nphet/ Holohan if they can.

I'm in the comfortable position that both my wife and myself are fully vaccinated so I'm hopeful, but if I were in any other category I don't think I'd feel confident booking a holiday with MM and Donnelly in charge.

Ive already emailed all of them to ask if we are a part of the EU or are we an Island nation that wants to go back to the dark ages run by an un-elected individual.


Handy list of all TDs email addresses attached - copy and paste and off you go.

Quechyquat

Article 15 of Regulation (EU) 2021/953 states the following with regard to the DCC phasing in period (July 1st to August 12th):

"Phasing-in period

1. COVID-19 certificates issued by a Member State before 1 July 2021 shall be accepted by the other Member States until 12 August 2021 in accordance with Article 5(5), Article 6(5) and Article 7(8), where they contain the data set out in the Annex.

2. Where a Member State is not able to issue the certificates referred to in Article 3(1) in a format that complies with this Regulation from 1 July 2021, it shall inform the Commission and the other Member States accordingly. Where they contain the data set out in the Annex, the COVID-19 certificates issued by such a Member State in a format that does not comply with this Regulation shall be accepted by the other Member States in accordance with Article 5(5), Article 6(5) and Article 7(8) until 12 August 2021."


The way I see it is:

1. We need to formally notify the EU that we are not in a position to issue DCCs by 1st July.
2. Until such time as we are ready, there needs to be some sort of interim vaccination/test/recovery certificate issued to facilitate inter EU travel (essential or otherwise) which includes the data specified in Annex 1 of the Regulation.
3. We need to be in a position to accept DCCs from 1st July for inbound EU travel.
4. The legality of non-essential travel could be controlled via the existing Irish legislation on the €2k fine etc.


Interestingly Article 2 of Regulation (EU) 2021/954 seems to extend qualification for the DCC to Northern Ireland residents who are in possession of an Irish passport:

"Provided that Ireland has notified the Council and the Commission that it accepts the certificates referred to in Article 3(1) of Regulation (EU) 2021/953 issued by Member States to persons covered by this Regulation, Member States shall accept, under the conditions of Regulation (EU) 2021/953, COVID-19 certificates issued by Ireland in the format that complies with the requirements of the EU Digital COVID Certificate trust framework established by Regulation (EU) 2021/953 to third-country nationals who are entitled to travel freely within the territory of the Member States."


In summary, there would appear to be a need for us to get our s**t together by July 1st and not necessarily July 19th.

M_Murphy57

spockety wrote: »

Jaysus ok, I've found his exact words.


Interviewer: "It could be narrowed to vaccinated only...?"

Donnelly : "Well that conversation isn't happening at the moment.


https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/share/radio1/11318696

These are the 2 most important lines imo.

Quechyquat

spockety wrote: »

Jaysus ok, I've found his exact words.

"Current government policy is that there will be essentially unimpeded travel within the EU and any other partner countries, once you have the Digital Covid Certificate. Now we have chosen three things that qualify for that, you're fully vaccinated, or you have had a PCR test within three days, or you have a lab confirmed COVID infection yourself within nine months. And that's CURRENT government policy. As with all of these things, if we were to get very strong public health advice saying that because the Delta variant is now raging in various countries, so I met the Portuguese Health Minister last week for example and she was telling me that as of last week it was more than 40% of new cases in Portugal.. well that's somewhere obviously we go and people would be intending going on holidays, so right now government policy is all three criteria, count, as with everything in COVID were we to get strong public health advice to the contrary we would obviously take that under consideration.."

Interviewer: "It could be narrowed to vaccinated only...?"

Donnelly : "Well that conversation isn't happening at the moment. What we know is the Chief Medical Officer has raised his concerns, from a public health perspective. But government policy is all three criteria. IF we get strong public health advice we will take that under consideration."

And if you still don't trust me.. you can listen for yourself. About 1:19 in.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/share/radio1/11318696

Donnelly is incorrect. It is not government policy; it is, in fact, the law as set out in 2 EU Regulations. There is nothing like the flexibility that he seems to suggest exists. DCCs cannot be limited to vaccination only.

They could, I suspect, try to use the current non-essential travel legislation to limit it to only fully vaccinated travellers. That would be politically very clumsy and operationally difficult but then we are talking about Stephen Donnelly here....

Fann Linn

Fann Linn wrote: »

Well then ye better get onto your local FFG TD and let them know. This crowd will offload their responsibility to Nphet/ Holohan if they can.

I'm in the comfortable position that both my wife and myself are fully vaccinated so I'm hopeful, but if I were in any other category I don't think I'd feel confident booking a holiday with MM and Donnelly in charge.

In all fairness let's not make this political
There are other places for that
All parties in the Dáil and most independents are closely aligned on nphet
The only exception seems to be Mcnamara

Chuck Norris 2021

josip wrote: »

Email the Italian embassy in Ireland and ask them what the procedure is.
Include your passport number in your email signature.
Print out and bring with you.
(I got a reply from the French embassy within 24 hours, the Belgians are a bit sluggish)

For anyone planning on travelling to Italy, I took Josip's advice and emailed the Italian embassy in Dublin and got the following response;

From june 21st to enter Italy you must have a certificate of vaccination finished at least 14 days before arrival, or a certificate that prove the recovery from covid in the last 6 months or a test done 48 hourse prior to arrival. So you do not need to quarantine if you have one of the above



Cordialmente

Ambasciata d'Italia in Dublino

So luckily it aligns with Reopen EU, and all the stuff in the media, so we can still travel there without the DCC. I'm still awaiting an answer from the Italian department of foreign affairs. I think NPHET may have translated their document for them.

munchkin_utd

Quechyquat wrote: »

Donnelly is incorrect. It is not government policy; it is, in fact, the law as set out in 2 EU Regulations. There is nothing like the flexibility that he seems to suggest exists. DCCs cannot be limited to vaccination only.

They could, I suspect, try to use the current non-essential travel legislation to limit it to only fully vaccinated travellers. That would be politically very clumsy and operationally difficult but then we are talking about Stephen Donnelly here....

the cert cant be limited as its simply a digital record of tests and vaccinations so will be uniform , but what Ireland accepts as entry criteria for incoming travel can be tweaked by Donnelly and co. as thats still a state competency.

Chuck Norris 2021

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

For anyone planning on travelling to Italy, I took Josip's advice and emailed the Italian embassy in Dublin and got the following response;

From june 21st to enter Italy you must have a certificate of vaccination finished at least 14 days before arrival, or a certificate that prove the recovery from covid in the last 6 months or a test done 48 hourse prior to arrival. So you do not need to quarantine if you have one of the above



Cordialmente

Ambasciata d'Italia in Dublino

So luckily it aligns with Reopen EU, and all the stuff in the media, so we can still travel there without the DCC. I'm still awaiting an answer from the Italian department of foreign affairs. I think NPHET may have translated their document for them.

Is the hse vaccine card classed as a certificate (anywhere) ?

spockety

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

These are the 2 most important lines imo.

Haha, if that's how you want to read it then grand.

The reality is it's a blatant lie, of course it's being discussed. Otherwise how have they all started publicly talking about it at the same time, with the same kind of messaging?

spockety

Marine Layer wrote: »

Is the hse vaccine card classed as a certificate (anywhere) ?

Yes.

EU members have agreed to recognise each other's certificates/cards.

Chuck Norris 2021

Marine Layer wrote: »

Is the hse vaccine card classed as a certificate (anywhere) ?

Difficult to know. I'm not going to take the chance, I'll take a test as well. Another poster suggested this morning that it may be better to spend the extra on the PCR as well.

spockety

spockety wrote: »

Yes.

EU members have agreed to recognise each other's certificates/cards.

I only see the word certificate in all documentation
If the HSE do not issue a certificate pre DCC,will a HSE vaccination card get you into Ireland or will you need a pcr ?
Ryanair on twitter incredibly won't answer this