Fly me to the Moon - your 3rd travel Megathread - read OP

Quechyquat

munchkin_utd wrote: »

the cert cant be limited as its simply a digital record of tests and vaccinations so will be uniform , but what Ireland accepts as entry criteria for incoming travel can be tweaked by Donnelly and co. as thats still a state competency.

Indeed but only if "they are necessary and proportionate for the purpose of safeguarding public health in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, also taking into account available scientific evidence, including epidemiological data published by the ECDC on the basis of Recommendation (EU) 2020/1475."

The EU traffic light system should come into play then and there's a lot of green on the board.

faceman

Marine Layer wrote: »

I only see the word certificate in all documentation
If the HSE do not issue a certificate pre DCC,will a HSE vaccination card get you into Ireland or will you need a pcr ?
Ryanair on twitter incredibly won't answer this

HSE vaccination card will work. The DGC is not mandatory

faceman

faceman wrote: »

HSE vaccination card will work. The DGC is not mandatory

Have you any evidence of this? Or do you mean after July 19th
Presently if you arrive without a pcr its off to mhq with you

So the dilemma is,coming home on the 19th after a weeks holidays hse double jabbed card in hand,will you be denied boarding without a pcr?

Quechyquat

Marine Layer wrote: »

Is the hse vaccine card classed as a certificate (anywhere) ?

This is the data which should be included on a vaccination cert according to the EU:

"Data fields to be included in the vaccination certificate:

(a) name: surname(s) and forename(s), in that order;

(b) date of birth;

(c) disease or agent targeted: COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2 or one of its variants);

(d) COVID-19 vaccine or prophylaxis;

(e) COVID-19 vaccine product name;

(f) COVID-19 vaccine marketing authorisation holder or manufacturer;

(g) number in a series of doses as well as the overall number of doses in the series;

(h) date of vaccination, indicating the date of the latest dose received;

(i) Member State or third country in which the vaccine was administered;

(j) certificate issuer;

(k) unique certificate identifier."


I wouldn't be relying on the HSE card if travelling after July 1st.

Quechyquat

Quechyquat wrote: »

This is the data which should be included on a vaccination cert according to the EU:

"Data fields to be included in the vaccination certificate:

(a) name: surname(s) and forename(s), in that order;

(b) date of birth;

(c) disease or agent targeted: COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2 or one of its variants);

(d) COVID-19 vaccine or prophylaxis;

(e) COVID-19 vaccine product name;

(f) COVID-19 vaccine marketing authorisation holder or manufacturer;

(g) number in a series of doses as well as the overall number of doses in the series;

(h) date of vaccination, indicating the date of the latest dose received;

(i) Member State or third country in which the vaccine was administered;

(j) certificate issuer;

(k) unique certificate identifier."


I wouldn't be relying on the HSE card if travelling after July 1st.

Well it definitely doesn't contain those last two !

plodder

Marine Layer wrote: »

Is the hse vaccine card classed as a certificate (anywhere) ?

You could print out your status page from the vaccine3.hse.ie website as well as show the vaccine card. While something like that could easily be faked, you would also be able to login to it in person and demonstrate it that way. Unlikely it would come to that though.

mmclo

Quechyquat wrote: »

Indeed but only if "they are necessary and proportionate for the purpose of safeguarding public health in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, also taking into account available scientific evidence, including epidemiological data published by the ECDC on the basis of Recommendation (EU) 2020/1475."

The EU traffic light system should come into play then and there's a lot of green on the board.

Yes and most countries allow entry now if Orange (which we are once IT thing sorted) with the 3 DCC conditions today

mmclo

Quechyquat wrote: »

This is the data which should be included on a vaccination cert according to the EU:

"Data fields to be included in the vaccination certificate:

(a) name: surname(s) and forename(s), in that order;

(b) date of birth;

(c) disease or agent targeted: COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2 or one of its variants);

(d) COVID-19 vaccine or prophylaxis;

(e) COVID-19 vaccine product name;

(f) COVID-19 vaccine marketing authorisation holder or manufacturer;

(g) number in a series of doses as well as the overall number of doses in the series;

(h) date of vaccination, indicating the date of the latest dose received;

(i) Member State or third country in which the vaccine was administered;

(j) certificate issuer;

(k) unique certificate identifier."


I wouldn't be relying on the HSE card if travelling after July 1st.

And we have an SI now but EU Reg might supersede it

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2021/si/183/made/en/print

plodder

plodder wrote: »

You could print out your status page from the vaccine3.hse.ie website as well as show the vaccine card. While something like that could easily be faked, you would also be able to login to it in person and demonstrate it that way. Unlikely it would come to that though.

Log in does not work abroad unfortunately
Its geo blocked (wisely) since the HSE hack
Also there's no certificate number on the cards

munchkin_utd

Marine Layer wrote: »

Log in does not work abroad unfortunately
Its geo blocked (wisely) since the HSE hack
Also there's no certificate number on the cards

it was blocked long before the hack
(presuming thats the same page as the vaccine sign up page)

solerina

Marine Layer wrote: »

Log in does not work abroad unfortunately
Its geo blocked (wisely) since the HSE hack
Also there's no certificate number on the cards

Do those who got their vaccine through their doctor also have access to the cert, I assume the doctors should have uploaded the information to the HSE

plodder

Marine Layer wrote: »

Log in does not work abroad unfortunately
Its geo blocked (wisely) since the HSE hack
Also there's no certificate number on the cards

I just logged in through my employer's VPN, from an IP address that puts me in Switzerland.

And if you were to login on an Irish based phone from abroad, using mobile data, that would use an Irish IP address anyway.

Right, the card is not a cert. It comes down to how pernickety they want to be about it. I'm just saying you could satisfy them that you are vaccinated.

Hellrazer

So heres a question - We signed up to the Digital Certificate and have sighed up to implement it in full.

Can Dopey Donnelly and Mongo Martin unilaterally decide to make changes to that EU law?

From what I can see they cant and all this talk the last few days is just more bull****ting from them.

plodder

plodder wrote: »

I just logged in through my employer's VPN, from an IP address that puts me in Switzerland.

And if you were to login on an Irish based phone from abroad, using mobile data, that would use an Irish IP address anyway.

Right, the card is not a cert. It comes down to how pernickety they want to be about it. I'm just saying you could satisfy them that you are vaccinated.

I'm on a vpn and was not allowed go even to the register page without an error saying registration is only available in Ireland
I had to disable the vpn

embraer170

plodder wrote: »

You could print out your status page from the vaccine3.hse.ie website as well as show the vaccine card. While something like that could easily be faked, you would also be able to login to it in person and demonstrate it that way. Unlikely it would come to that though.

That won't work for people vaccinated through their GPs will it?

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

So heres a question - We signed up to the Digital Certificate and have sighed up to implement it in full.

Can Dopey Donnelly and Mongo Martin unilaterally decide to make changes to that EU law?

From what I can see they cant and all this talk the last few days is just more bull****ting from them.

As I said earlier, in my opinion its itchy fingers twitter ready journos asking too many questions to a Taoiseach and ministers not briefed to answer them properly, so you get wacko replies

They're not briefed because Hulahoop doesn't want the facts out

plodder

Marine Layer wrote: »

I'm on a vpn and was not allowed go even to the register page without an error saying registration is only available in Ireland
I had to disable the vpn

Not doubting you, but I think this shows that geo-blocking is not a very effective security technique. What does it hope to achieve anyway? You have to verify every login with 2FA anyway.

the phone technique should work though, as that is how mobile roaming works. You are tunneled back to your home network and hit the internet from there.

Doctor Jimbob

Hellrazer wrote: »

So heres a question - We signed up to the Digital Certificate and have sighed up to implement it in full.

Can Dopey Donnelly and Mongo Martin unilaterally decide to make changes to that EU law?

From what I can see they cant and all this talk the last few days is just more bull****ting from them.

It's the usual obfuscation from them, with two factors driving it as far as I can see:

1) They want people to spend money in Ireland.

2) Tony Holohan doesn't want anyone travelling unless they're vaccinated, and Tony must not be questioned.

Solobally8

Solobally8 wrote: »

You will see that I was just responding to that particular person’s situation in which he is traveling to Spain and only needs the antigen. I’m not interested in other countries so didn’t comment on them, just his specific situation.

I did see and I still say pay the extra to avoid issues.

Chuck Norris 2021

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Difficult to know. I'm not going to take the chance, I'll take a test as well. Another poster suggested this morning that it may be better to spend the extra on the PCR as well.

Presume that was myself. Just to repeat, that was just 2 idiots from Ryanair that messed me up. My vaccine record has been accepted by everyone else and eventually by other Ryanair staff.

But I would rather have spent the money on a pcr and gotten my intended flight

Wallander

Hellrazer wrote: »

So heres a question - We signed up to the Digital Certificate and have sighed up to implement it in full.

Can Dopey Donnelly and Mongo Martin unilaterally decide to make changes to that EU law?

From what I can see they cant and all this talk the last few days is just more bull****ting from them.

Last time they were in this situation about deciding whether to put EU countries on the hotel quarantine list, they consulted the attorney general and ignored his advice that their plans were illegal, until they were talked into dropping it by the EU.


You can imagine this time Ryanair at least will be waiting in the wings ready to pounce. Remember their case last year against travel restrictions? It was dismissed as quarantine was only 'health advise' rather than law at the time. If travel restrictions are not struck off contrary to EU law the government wouldn't stand a chance in a rematch.

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

So heres a question - We signed up to the Digital Certificate and have sighed up to implement it in full.

Can Dopey Donnelly and Mongo Martin unilaterally decide to make changes to that EU law?

From what I can see they cant and all this talk the last few days is just more bull****ting from them.

With certain criteria they can. Each nation, regardless of agreements, controls it's own borders and can close them once the criteria has been met.

Honestly, Ireland could close the doors fully tomorrow for zero reason if it wanted and it would be a long time before the eu got beyond giving out and tried to force the issue.

Chuck Norris 2021

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Presume that was myself. Just to repeat, that was just 2 idiots from Ryanair that messed me up. My vaccine record has been accepted by everyone else and eventually by other Ryanair staff.

But I would rather have spent the money on a pcr and gotten my intended flight

It certainly was, thanks, I'm going to follow your lead. Ryanair have just cancelled all Italy flights for the rest of July out of Cork. Time to change a flight for the 5th time!

Wallander

Wallander wrote: »

Last time they were in this situation about deciding whether to put EU countries on the hotel quarantine list, they consulted the attorney general and ignored his advice that their plans were illegal, until they were talked into dropping it by the EU.


You can imagine this time Ryanair at least will be waiting in the wings ready to pounce. Remember their case last year against travel restrictions? It was dismissed as quarantine was only 'health advise' rather than law at the time. If travel restrictions are not struck off contrary to EU law the government wouldn't stand a chance in a rematch.

The AG never said it was illegal, he said it presented possible issues. Issues that still haven't been decided in a court yet.

The Ryanair case would still fall and they knew it would. That was good press and PR only. The courts acknowledged the states total control over external borders. No commercial entity would win. An individual could and it's entirely possible a company would fund such a challenge similar to the waters and Doherty case.

fm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

With certain criteria they can. Each nation, regardless of agreements, controls it's own borders and can close them once the criteria has been met.

Honestly, Ireland could close the doors fully tomorrow for zero reason if it wanted and it would be a long time before the eu got beyond giving out and tried to force the issue.

What is the criteria though? Also the Irish government need the eu on their side because of the issues up north with the protocol etc

Chuck Norris 2021

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

It certainly was, thanks, I'm going to follow your lead. Ryanair have just cancelled all Italy flights for the rest of July out of Cork. Time to change a flight for the 5th time!

How many vouchers? I had actually managed to use them all up and then the new flights got cancelled as well. I have about a dozen of them again now from 9.99 to 100 euro and no way to track them online.

fm

fm wrote: »

What is the criteria though? Also the Irish government need the eu on their side because of the issues up north with the protocol etc

I'm not debating our reliance on the EU. Big eu fan.

The criteria, like many such issues, is grey. There's no real solid black and white. I know new variants are mentioned as a possible reason.

Fundamentally, each nation retains border control. That was included in the agreement. How far can Ireland push it? Dunno really but allowing people in while denying Irish people leave? Yeah, that's a hard one to justify in my book.

TefalBrain

I've a bad feeling the unvaccinated are going to get absolutely screwed on travel. Honestly the amount of coordinated scaremongering is off the charts the last 2 days in the media.

Gael23

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's the usual obfuscation from them, with two factors driving it as far as I can see:

1) They want people to spend money in Ireland.

2) Tony Holohan doesn't want anyone travelling unless they're vaccinated, and Tony must not be questioned.

For point 1 to happen indoor dining must open as scheduled

faceman

Marine Layer wrote: »

Have you any evidence of this? Or do you mean after July 19th
Presently if you arrive without a pcr its off to mhq with you

So the dilemma is,coming home on the 19th after a weeks holidays hse double jabbed card in hand,will you be denied boarding without a pcr?

I can’t speak on behalf of the airlines but as agreed by all EU nations, DGC is not mandatory so EU citizens can produce the local proof of vaccination as issued by the national health authority. Therefore immigration or whoever does the checks in Ireland will accept either. The difference being anything other than the DGC will be a manual check and take longer. They really want to encourage people to use the DGC from a consistency perspective.

Spain have been accepted the HSE vaccine card even though it doesn’t contain DOB etc.