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Property tax changes will see 36% face higher tax

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    #92
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FileNotFound wrote: »
    Property Tax?

    I think its one of those ones the revenue can pull from wages etc. - Thats just from loose memory mind you so i could be wrong.

    You can pay monthly at no extra cost rather than in 1 lump sum.

    Yeah, I pay mine by direct debit. If it goes up or down, I will get notified by Revenue, just like if Netflix goes up.


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    #93
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Uproar about a pittance of an increase for some, the yearly increase, is what some want to be buyers , looking at modest houses , are increasing in value, every day ! Let's say e100 a day, 36,500 on a 500k house, it's easily plausible. Absolutely pathetic and laughable...


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    #94
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    meeeeh wrote: »
    It's a typical everyone else but me should pay taxes attitude. Usually from people who wouldn't even blink signing up to another subscription.

    Anyway SF will be soon in government and they will provide all services and more by 'taxing the rich'.

    Fg have the same magic money tree! Their own voters hammered most hy tax and getting the least back for it... magic money trees appear out of nowhere any time there is a crisis...

    Hike vat if needs be, I note several EU countries have a 25% rate. Hike the nearly free motor tax... the marginal rate of income tax is a scandal and economically damaging...

    Ireland is absolutely unique in its weak and populist politics. Welfare and systems wont be reformed. So it will be tax increases, hit everyone in that case... there would be far less uproar from an extra fiver through increased tax and excise per week than a fiver cut from welfare for example...


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    #95
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,245 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Pretty much hitting the nail on the head here. Ireland overtaxes income, and undertaxes in relation to charges for services and taxes on other things.

    We need water charges, we need more property taxes, not less, we need demand management charges (€5-10) for visiting a doctor that everyone pays (like in most European countries), we need higher social insurance, we need to abolish the floor to social insurance, etc. etc.

    Hopefully the Taxation and Social Welfare Commission will address some of these issues.

    In general we have too much centrally gathered taxes, we need more of a balance between taxes paid to the state and those we pay for local services. So yes, a reduction in centrally gathered tax balanced by more increase in local taxes and payments on local services.


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    #96
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    harrymcardle61 wrote: »
    What has this to do with SF?

    You know when someone has lost a political argument or has nothing else good to input to a debate in Ireland that they refer to what about SF

    Because property tax makes perfect sense. Opposition to it comes mostly from td's who are bad at maths (looney left and SF). I'm just saying I'm looking forward when all those promises of 'taxing the rich' will be broken when we finally get left government. I presume it will be led by SF.


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    #97
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,655 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Geuze wrote: »
    FTB in 2005, house built in 1970s.

    Zero stamp duty.
    cheers, must have changed between 2003 and 2005 so.


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    #98
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,334 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    timmyntc wrote: »
    If LPT is supposed to fund services provided by the local authority, then it should be paid based on all adults in the property.
    If you are renting, you still pay. Because you benefit from the services since you are the one living there.
    It should be a flat rate, because everyone benefits from the same services from the LA unless I am mistaken?

    Taxing based on house valuation is mad - plenty of houses bought 60 years ago are worth a mint now, but its not like the owners see any of that increase in value. Its all tied up in the house.

    This is why I am against LPT. It's just a cash grab and nothing more. I don't think any of the money raised is ring-fenced specifically to "fund services provided by the local authority", so it just ends up going into general taxation.

    If it came in the form of rates, like there is in Britain it would be more palatable. The British can track where their rates money is going by reading reports produced by the councils. But as it is in Ireland, it's just a general tax on people for buying a home to live in.

    And most people just bought a home to live in. They didn't by an "asset".


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    #99
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭Feisar


    CageWager wrote: »
    Im perfectly comfortable with people paying tax on assets they own (myself included) that have seen massive inflation through their lifetime. Tax wealth, not income.

    Can ones primary dwelling be considered wealth?

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #100
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Feisar wrote: »
    Can ones primary dwelling be considered wealth?

    It is a security. Especially when you pay off your mortgage and don't need to pay rent in retirement. All those going on about poor pensioners having to pay property tax have it easy in comparison to future generations who will be having to pay rent.


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    #101
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,334 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    meeeeh wrote: »
    It is a security.

    Security perhaps. But it's still really not a "wealth" is it?

    A home isn't an asset. Nor is it wealth. It's somewhere where you live. And in this country if one can manage to do it, it makes absolute sense because our renting situation has been let go to a bonkers level of out of control.

    FF/FG really have made an absolute dogs dinner of housing here over the last 20 years.


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    #102
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Security perhaps. But it's still really not a "wealth" is it?

    A home isn't an asset. Nor is it wealth. It's somewhere where you live. And in this country if one can manage to do it, it makes absolute sense because our renting situation has been let go to a bonkers level of out of control.

    FF/FG really have made an absolute dogs dinner of housing here over the last 20 years.

    Where you live you get services, schools, health care and social security. That has to be paid with taxes. Property tax is just another tax.

    You can't whinge about lack of social housing and everything else but that needs to be paid by taxes so guess what anyone who is against broad base taxes is against affordable housing.


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    #103
    Jerry Attrick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭Jerry Attrick


    Immortal Starlight wrote: »
    Or maybe you could read what I actually posted instead of twisting it.

    You wrote that you greatly admired her populist approach to certain taxation matters.

    For me, anyone coming out with such unsolicited balderdash is fair game.


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    #104
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,989 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    How houses built after 2013 are deemed suitable as not having to lay LPT is beyond me though. How did this go on so long. Where everyone else in older colder homes have had to pay it.


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    #105
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,334 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Where you live you get services, schools, health care and social security. That has to be paid with taxes. Property tax is just another tax.

    That's why we need a tracable rates system and get rid of this LPT baloney.


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    #106
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Tony EH wrote: »
    That's why we need a tracable rates system and get rid of this LPT baloney.

    Why? It's collected effectively. It should be raised and refuse charges added to it but I don't know why we would get rid of tax that's easy to collect and collected from broad base.


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    #107
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Tony EH wrote: »
    This is why I am against LPT. It's just a cash grab and nothing more. I don't think any of the money raised is ring-fenced specifically to "fund services provided by the local authority", so it just ends up going into general taxation.

    If it came in the form of rates, like there is in Britain it would be more palatable. The British can track where their rates money is going by reading reports produced by the councils. But as it is in Ireland, it's just a general tax on people for buying a home to live in.

    And most people just bought a home to live in. They didn't by an "asset".

    All tax is a cash-grab. There is nothing particular to LPT that makes it more of a cash grab than any other tax. A nonsensical position to adopt is to oppose it on that basis.


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    #108
    Immortal Starlight
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Immortal Starlight


    Jerry Attrick wrote: »
    You wrote that you greatly admired her populist approach to certain taxation matters.

    For me, anyone coming out with such unsolicited balderdash is fair game.

    I never said anything of the kind. I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. Once again I would suggest you read what I actually said and please do not twist my words.


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    #109
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Tony EH wrote: »
    This is why I am against LPT. It's just a cash grab and nothing more. I don't think any of the money raised is ring-fenced specifically to "fund services provided by the local authority", so it just ends up going into general taxation.


    Again, let me clarify.

    All LPT receipts go to local authorities.

    That is what the L stands for: Local.


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    #110
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Tony EH wrote: »
    If it came in the form of rates, like there is in Britain it would be more palatable. The British can track where their rates money is going by reading reports produced by the councils. But as it is in Ireland, it's just a general tax on people for buying a home to live in.


    All LA publish an AFS every year.

    Here is the consolidated AFS:

    https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/e103b-local-authority-annual-financial-statements/


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    #111
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Feisar wrote: »
    Can ones primary dwelling be considered wealth?

    Yes, houses are assets, and assets are part of wealth.

    See here:

    https://www.centralbank.ie/statistics/statistical-publications/behind-the-data/a-new-high-in-irish-household-wealth-what-is-different-this-time


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    #112
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Tony EH wrote: »
    This is why I am against LPT. It's just a cash grab and nothing more. I don't think any of the money raised is ring-fenced specifically to "fund services provided by the local authority", so it just ends up going into general taxation.

    If it came in the form of rates, like there is in Britain it would be more palatable. The British can track where their rates money is going by reading reports produced by the councils. But as it is in Ireland, it's just a general tax on people for buying a home to live in.

    Have a look here:

    http://localauthorityfinances.com/


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    #113
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Here are the LPT allocations for 2020:



    http://localauthorityfinances.com/about-lpt/


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    #114
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Here are the 2021 LPT allocations:

    https://assets.gov.ie/111328/8aa6405b-6d9e-475f-b2b1-b9253dfffffe.pdf


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    #115
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,655 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Geuze wrote: »
    Again, let me clarify.

    All LPT receipts go to local authorities.

    That is what the L stands for: Local.
    i heard claimed on the radio that the subvention from the government to local authorities fell by the amount LPT raised for those local authorities.
    so services provided by LAs were unaffected by the introduction (should that claim be true)


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    #116
    tails_naf
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tails_naf


    randd1 wrote: »
    Any property tax should be done purely on square meters taken up by each floor and the whole front/back garden, on a scale based on combined household income.

    Are you kidding? I've a large house by city standards, and it is worth a quarter of the value. Property tax should be fixed on the value of the house at purchase, and only adjust for inflation. It can be re calculated when sold on. Its fair (value based), but also won't increase drastically over time unless the property is sold. This was how california solved the issue when people found the house they had been living in for 10 years was suddenly increasing in value to the point they could not afford property tax as it increased every year. So fixing it on sale is the most fair way of doing it


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    #117
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i heard claimed on the radio that the subvention from the government to local authorities fell by the amount LPT raised for those local authorities.
    so services provided by LAs were unaffected by the introduction (should that claim be true)

    Oh yes, correct, the LPT is not extra income to the LA.

    It replaces previous general purpose grants from the central Govt.

    People here expected extra, new services when the LPT was introduced.

    I tried to explain that would not happen.


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