F1 2021 Round 6: Azerbaijan GP

recyclebin

recyclebin wrote: »

Verstappen used to do that late twitch not so long ago! Not sure why the Haas needed to swap positions crossing the line anyway. It wasnt going to prove anything.

And Micks dad did a lot worse to Barrichello down the straight!

Andrew76

This is really interesting, team radio between Lewis and Bono at the end of the race. He accidentially turned back on the "magic" while upshifting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOgAr2mUcQg

Race restart - https://youtu.be/suZHkUxPzjE?t=308 - you can see his front left locks up as he goes straight on. Would love to know exactly what the "magic" does - was it Toto who said it shifts the brake bias to the front - maybe that would cause it to lock up?

TheQ_Man

recyclebin wrote: »

And Micks dad did a lot worse to Barrichello down the straight!

And got punished for it

recyclebin

After all the talk the subject of bendy wings and appeals never came to pass. I wonder will it shake up the order much in the next couple of races.

R00ster

Merc had a tweet up saying "Even champions make mistakes. Chin up, Lewis."

It was swiftly deleted...

BrentMused

Really happy for Checo.

An excellent driver who was always going to need time to settle into a new car and team, never mind in a season in which testing was dramatically reduced.

Makes the discussions doing the rounds a few weeks ago about Red Bull potentially replacing him even more ridiculous than they were at the time.

I have no doubt that come the end of the season, Red Bull will have been very pleased with his contribution.

It will make a huge difference for them being able to try undercuts and different strategies by having their second driver being consistently in the top 3 or 4.

MadYaker

BrentMused wrote: »

Really happy for Checo.

An excellent driver who was always going to need time to settle into a new car and team, never mind in a season in which testing was dramatically reduced.

Makes the discussions doing the rounds a few weeks ago about Red Bull potentially replacing him even more ridiculous than they were at the time.

I have no doubt that come the end of the season, Red Bull will have been very pleased with his contribution.

It will make a huge difference for them being able to try undercuts and different strategies by having their second driver being consistently in the top 3 or 4.

Floundering Bottas also helping a lot there

CFlat

VETTEL SECOND!!!!!!!!!

MadYaker

#ExperienceAzerbaijan

pjohnson

AMKC

What a race. They really should have red flagged the race after Lance Strolls tyre failed or at least yellow flagged it and gave teams the option to change there tyres and then Max's might not have failed. Them tyres are dangerous. That should really not happen.

Anyway I really felt for Max and for Red Bull not getting there 1-2 but was also delighted for Sergio, Vettel was great to see him back on the podium and Gasly.
I was thinking at the restart this is hardly worth it for one flag but how wrong I was it was brilliant.

What exactly happened to Hamilton did he just fail to cool his brakes so they failed or what? He has been very lucky so far anyway Hamilton so was due some bad luck. Bottas was just not at the races at all today.

Gaoth Laidir

So Hamilton flicked the Magic switch on the upshift at the start, which fecked up his brakes at turn 1. How did he manage to get around the rest of the race relatively freely if he didn't realise until after the race that he had flicked that switch? I assume this magic only affect the start and is not an issue when the brakes heat up normally during the race?

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

Well then maybe establish all the facts before you shoot your mouth off.

Good advice. Let's watch you follow it

Faugheen wrote: »

I don’t understand why Pirelli have questions to answer?

Couple of people correct you

Faugheen wrote: »

That’s actually fair enough.

Oh. Just a pity you didn't establish all the facts before, ahem, shooting your mouth off.


Caught the highlights, looked like a pretty nothing race for the most part.. Bottas is just sad. Sat in 10th for almost all the race, could nothing about anyone.

Delighted to see Hamilton really punished for a ****-up. He gets a lot of luck with safety cars and the like and was given a huge advantage today between Verstappen losing out and getting a chance at the win when he'd done nothing to suggest he had a shot up til then.

ctrl-alt-delete

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

So Hamilton flicked the Magic switch on the upshift at the start, which fecked up his brakes at turn 1. How did he manage to get around the rest of the race relatively freely if he didn't realise until after the race that he had flicked that switch? I assume this magic only affect the start and is not an issue when the brakes heat up normally during the race?

I could be remembering wrong but did Sky reckon the magic gets the brakes to temp and so he had left it on for the restart? His brakes were smoking far more than others on the grid although he was there waiting longer.

So his brakes were then too hot? I'd imagine zooming around the track after that cools them enough for him not to notice until he parked up again?

MadYaker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVI_2RZs3Fo&ab_channel=Flash-224Flash-224

Full press conference. Interesting that Seb sat in his car for the entirety of the red flag, he felt he was in a good place and didn't want to get out :pac:

SCOOP 64

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

So Hamilton flicked the Magic switch on the upshift at the start, which fecked up his brakes at turn 1. How did he manage to get around the rest of the race relatively freely if he didn't realise until after the race that he had flicked that switch? I assume this magic only affect the start and is not an issue when the brakes heat up normally during the race?

I thought he said he flicked the switch by mistake at the restart while trying out run Perez.

Lawlesz

I don't think we are getting the full story on the "magic" switch. Toto said it was something to do with changing the bias which I don't really buy.

I think sky alluded to it being a switch to help get the brake temps within range on formation laps or SC periods. Hamilton brakes looked way hotter as they were lining up too. The fact that they called it a magic switch seemed a bit off, like they couldn't say straight out what it was. Maybe I'm just cynical... Whatever it waa, Bono said he turned it off but back on again, so that's a little crazy if it is that easy to move by accident

Hijpo

Lawlesz wrote: »

I don't think we are getting the full story on the "magic" switch. Toto said it was something to do with changing the bias which I don't really buy.

I think sky alluded to it being a switch to help get the brake temps within range on formation laps or SC periods. Hamilton brakes looked way hotter as they were lining up too. The fact that they called it a magic switch seemed a bit off, like they couldn't say straight out what it was. Maybe I'm just cynical... Whatever it waa, Bono said he turned it off but back on again, so that's a little crazy if it is that easy to move by accident

Also, not sure who it was in commentary may have been Di Resta but they were very coy in not divulging exactly that that button was for saying they would leave it up to the team to comment on it. If its jusy brake bias would he be that coy? Not trying to concoct a conspiracy theory just wondering if he would be or why he would think he would be in a delicate position to give that info.

Faugheen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good advice. Let's watch you follow it

Couple of people correct you

Oh. Just a pity you didn't establish all the facts before, ahem, shooting your mouth off.

Think you need to read the rest of the posts my friend.

Faugheen wrote: »

I don’t understand why Pirelli have questions to answer?

Why can’t teams monitor for themselves and see that a 2-stop might be necessary?

I asked a question. And people answered it. I never stated any mad and wacky conspiracy theories that the FIA were being paid off to stop the race to give Hamilton a chance to win.

Nice to see that you’re more upset about my post than the complete bullsh*t that it was in response to, mind. Tells me everything.

Ahh, the silence is lovely.

Faugheen

Hijpo wrote: »

Also, not sure who it was in commentary may have been Di Resta but they were very coy in not divulging exactly that that button was for saying they would leave it up to the team to comment on it. If its jusy break bias would he be that coy? Not trying to concoct a conspiracy theory just wondering if he would be or why he would think he would be in a delicate position to give that info.

I remember this. It was Anthony Davidson. He was being extremely vague and not quite keen to actually state what it was - ‘the team will explain that’ etc. Thought it was very unusual at the time.

Ted came in then and said the line about keeping the brakes and tyres warm during SC and formation laps alright.

pjohnson

Ant Davidson does simulator work for Mercedes so probably didnt want to speak out of turn. He aint Lewis he would be chopped asap if he misspoke.

mickdw

Hijpo wrote: »

Also, not sure who it was in commentary may have been Di Resta but they were very coy in not divulging exactly that that button was for saying they would leave it up to the team to comment on it. If its jusy brake bias would he be that coy? Not trying to concoct a conspiracy theory just wondering if he would be or why he would think he would be in a delicate position to give that info.

Mercedes have been using the magic term for a good while. Its not exactly clear what it does but the guy on sky was Anthony Davidson.
Who is mercedes sim driver so he knows exactly what its about but it wouldnt be right for him to just let that out of the bag live on sky.

flazio

Something that the F1 cameras missed during the race

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1401597333893173251?s=19

Burkie1203

Pirelli say tyres issues may be debris as they found a cut on Hamiltons left rear.

Top Dog

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Pirelli say tyres issues may be debris as they found a cut on Hamiltons left rear.

Except his didn't fail so what difference does it make?

chicorytip

Why is tyre choice restricted to Pirelli only?
Like most Italian automotive products they are not the most durable.

mickdw

Top Dog wrote: »

Except his didn't fail so what difference does it make?

Debris on track so the failures could be due to cuts too.

AMKC

chicorytip wrote: »

Why is tyre choice restricted to Pirelli only?
Like most Italian automotive products they are not the most durable.

Because that who F1 get there tyres from. They said they do not want another tyre war like when Michelen and Bridgestone supplied the tyres. We all remember what happened in 2005 in America.

quokula

While it’s unacceptable that things like this can happen and have a massive impact on the championship through no fault of the teams or drivers involved, never mind the safety issues, I’d be reluctant to put the blame entirely on Pirelli.

The current hybrid cars are far too heavy and are really not fit for purpose, and Pirelli have to try and design tyres to handle these barges without the benefit of any proper testing time with the new cars each year. It’s hardly a surprise they end up having problems.

mickdw

chicorytip wrote: »

Why is tyre choice restricted to Pirelli only?
Like most Italian automotive products they are not the most durable.

Thats the rules at the minute. Over the years there have been more than one supplier but that can lead to more dangerous tyres as the competing manufacturers will be pushing to offer the fastest tyre for any given race. Tyres would often also be the deciding factor then. We had previous where one tyre manufacturer supplied ferrari and a couple of small teams. This meant ferrari had bespoke tyres to suit their car giving them a massive advantage - the smaller teams took what they got. Having a mandated supplier means they should be able to turn up with safe tyres and a level playing field
Of course pirelli were given the job of spicing things up when they started supplying so we have had some interesting times with the pirellis.

Charlie-Bravo

So Perelli saying it's cuts to tyres. Let me guess they find a corner kerb stone on the track with a sharp edge. It would explain it alright, but I bet their tech team will be out inspecting every inch of the track to cover their arses.

Hijpo

Charlie-Bravo wrote: »

So Perelli saying it's cuts to tyres. Let me guess they find a corner kerb stone on the track with a sharp edge. It would explain it alright, but I bet their tech team will be out inspecting every inch of the track to cover their arses.

Didn't they up the tyre pressure today as well?

Top Dog

mickdw wrote: »

Debris on track so the failures could be due to cuts too.

The cynic in me thinks they're just getting their excuses ready

Itssoeasy

AMKC wrote: »

Because that who F1 get there tyres from. They said they do not want another tyre war like when Michelen and Bridgestone supplied the tyres. We all remember what happened in 2005 in America.

Oh we do. An utter farce in what that was.

tigerboon

Tyres, like any other component, will fail from time to time. The tyre manufacturer is under pressure to provide the product that will allow the best racing. That means pushing things a bit. The teams will want it this way. The teams will also push the limits on tyres. Verstappen was unlucky but at the end of the day, Red Bull could have chosen a different strategy. Pirelli said they were good for 40 laps but did RB verify that in practice.
The Mercedes "magic" button is probably something simple like having the brakes rub the whole time in a SC or warm up situation. It's function might change from race to race.
Entertaining race but it would be good to see Ferrari get their act together for LeClerc. I would rate him higher than Verstappen. Mercedes need to look at that 2nd seat as well. Norris?

jammiedodgers

Found this on reddit in relation to the "brake magic"

'Magic' is a Mercedes identifier for the term 'preset toggles'

Brake Warming Magic would then mean a brake warming preset toggle.

https://streamable.com/3510te - Russell's account of how Brake Magic works in a Sky interview

It's a preset toggle which overrides the following

Brake Balance (override to a high front-biased value, usually >75.0%)

Display (override to display brake and tyre temperatures)

Strat Mode (override to a harvest mode/Strat Mode 1)

When the preset toggle is disabled, it reverts back to the physical rotaries setting or previous setting

Brake Balance (revert to non-overriden bias)

Display (revert to default page)

Strat Mode (revert to actual Strat Mode rotary position)

quokula

tigerboon wrote: »

Tyres, like any other component, will fail from time to time. The tyre manufacturer is under pressure to provide the product that will allow the best racing. That means pushing things a bit. The teams will want it this way. The teams will also push the limits on tyres. Verstappen was unlucky but at the end of the day, Red Bull could have chosen a different strategy. Pirelli said they were good for 40 laps but did RB verify that in practice.
The Mercedes "magic" button is probably something simple like having the brakes rub the whole time in a SC or warm up situation. It's function might change from race to race.
Entertaining race but it would be good to see Ferrari get their act together for LeClerc. I would rate him higher than Verstappen. Mercedes need to look at that 2nd seat as well. Norris?

Considering Verstappen was one of the last people to stop, he was running those tyres for fewer laps than most other cars in the race. Nobody was going for two stops other than some safety car opportunists at the back. So to try and twist it into some kind of situation where Verstappen or Red Bull were at fault for pushing them too far and not making it a two stop strategy just makes no sense.

Lawlesz

Hijpo wrote: »

Also, not sure who it was in commentary may have been Di Resta but they were very coy in not divulging exactly that that button was for saying they would leave it up to the team to comment on it. If its jusy brake bias would he be that coy? Not trying to concoct a conspiracy theory just wondering if he would be or why he would think he would be in a delicate position to give that info.

Yeah I think that was Davidson, apparently he has some tie in with Mercedes and did some testing and so didn't want to confirm nor deny what it was. Think it was Ted mentioned it afterwards, and when they came back to AD he passed some comment like "I'm impressed Ted" :pac:

Frank Bullitt

Well most of that race was pretty crap. RB had a lot in their car it seems and didn't really push it until they had to. Really gutted for Max, he was flawless once he got the lead.

Hamilton making an uncharacteristic error like that...pressure? I would say Merc aren't really happy right now either, once he was past Leclerc (which he only got due to the branch on the track) he couldn't pull away. When he pitted, RB were almost 0.7 faster that lap.

Huge opportunity for RB and Merc to make inroads, and RB seemed to save it with Perez, delighted for him to get the win.

Seriously tight season developing now.

Frank Bullitt

Alonso seizing another opportunity as well today, his restart was amazing to watch.

Burkie1203

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Hamilton making an uncharacteristic error like that...pressure?

Last 18 months or so


Pushed albon off the track twice
Slid off at Imola but was saved by a red flag.
Was woeful in Monaco
Pitted when the pitlane was closed at Monza
Sochi practice start from wrong place.


Every time he messes up, its uncharacteristic. But ....

flazio

I can almost imagine how much Drive to Survive will milk the Stroll crash. Insert Lawrence talking about how scared he is, the usual drill.

El_Duderino 09

Charlie-Bravo wrote: »

So Perelli saying it's cuts to tyres. Let me guess they find a corner kerb stone on the track with a sharp edge. It would explain it alright, but I bet their tech team will be out inspecting every inch of the track to cover their arses.

Yeah but it could be cuts to the tyre. The fact that is was the same tyre (rear left) on both tyres suggests is could be a kerb that burst both tyres. Likewise it could be because the rear left couldn't handle the pressure put through it from the racing. We don't know either way.

And pirelli doesn't owe you and me an explanation but they do owe the stakeholders an explanation and assurance they'll make changes to ensure it doesn't happen again.

El_Duderino 09

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Last 18 months or so


Pushed albon off the track twice
Slid off at Imola but was saved by a red flag.
Was woeful in Monaco
Pitted when the pitlane was closed at Monza
Sochi practice start from wrong place.


Every time he messes up, its uncharacteristic. But ....

Right but you're spanning 3 season looking for mistakes. Also, he was grand in Monaco. The strategy was very poor but he wasn't woeful.

This isn't crashes every few races and balling things up regularly. The technical stuff like the practice start and entering the pitlane in Monza are pretty unlikely mistakes.

I often find that they talk about the greats as being brilliant every race, then you look back and see Senna in 5th position and not really doing much in a race and realise that they have to do this stuff for the storytelling side. They all have good days and bad days. The number of mistakes you mentioned is pretty low for the most scrutinised driver on the grid over 3 seasons.

LMHC

I think its laughable that people are trying to downgrade Lewis ability. Lewis is the best to do it and yes maybe some can't see it because their blinding dislike.

eviltimeban

Delighted for Seb, good result for Alonso, Checo's win is good for him but RB are all about Max so it won't really make any difference when it comes down to it.

If Hamilton wins this year, I feel he'll have really earned it for the first time in ages.

El_Duderino 09

eviltimeban wrote: »

Delighted for Seb, good result for Alonso, Checo's win is good for him but RB are all about Max so it won't really make any difference when it comes down to it.

If Hamilton wins this year, I feel he'll have really earned it for the first time in ages.

It could be good for Perez in terms of getting another contract at Red Bull. There aren't many good seats on the grid at the moment. He was doing the ideal job of being second, securing a 1-2, beating Hamilton and not challenging Max. First RB driver to do that since Mark Webber

Hijpo

jammiedodgers wrote: »

Found this on reddit in relation to the "brake magic"

Thats crazy, so on the dash it would have told him he magic brake bias was on and he didn't see it?
I didn't see his hand positions but would it have been covering the dash?

McFly85

eviltimeban wrote: »

Delighted for Seb, good result for Alonso, Checo's win is good for him but RB are all about Max so it won't really make any difference when it comes down to it.

If Hamilton wins this year, I feel he'll have really earned it for the first time in ages.

Horner was actually asked that yesterday - he commented on Checos race pace and said it looked for a while like he could catch Max, and he was asked if he would have allowed it - said of course, it’s too early in the season for any team orders like that. I think RB would be delighted for either of their drivers to be in with a shout of a WC.

Mercedes is the opposite, after Rosberg they have no intention of giving Lewis team competition.

It’s interesting now because Perez really looks to be getting to grips with the car, and while Hamilton is still favourite for the drivers championship, RB must think the constructors is a realistic shout this year.