2015 Yamaha Tracer MT-09 Battery/starting issue.

alan0387

Good morning folks,

My name is Alan. Been haunting the shooting threads but I have an issue with my Yamaha Tracer.

Long story short over the last 18 months the bike has been letting me down slowly.

Started out when I would leave work or home and go to petrol station. After filling the bike would not start. Started thinking I had a hot start issue, but I could bump start each time. That was about 2 years ago.

I replaced the original battery with, admittedly, a cheaper alternative. Battery lasted just under 6 months and failed again. Did usual battery checks, left bike for several days, battery retained charge. All grounds are good. All cables tight and secure. Checked voltage on cranking and she dropped to 9 volts, no good so replaced the battery again, about 6 months ago with an AGM type battery recommended by Cotters in Dublin.

I've now narrowed down my issue to starting the bike. It drains the battery to the point of not having enough juice to start the bike a 2nd time. So if I leave home in the morning, my short 10 min commute is enough to charge the battery enough to start when going home, 10 mins again, then plug on a halfords solar maintainer. But I have left the bike recently in work after my usual start and ride into work routine, for 2 weeks untouched. She started up straight away. So it's 100% not a battery draw issue.

I work in a garage, and if I start the bike in the underground carpark and bring the bike up, knock her off to throw gear on then she won't restart, I need to either use the workshop charger to boost her or use as a jump pack. She is not lazy starting, fires up usually between 1 and 2 spins on the starter, basically almost instantly with a full battery or on jump pack.

I'm now at a point where it's either the starter solenoid or starter itself causing massive drain. It's so bad if I leave the bike on idle, when she warms up and fans kick in, it kills the battery and the bike knocks off. (Since the bike doesn't charge on idle, needs 5k rpm for full 13.9v which is normal.)

Has anyone experienced this with any other yamaha or Tracer? I used to be able to start her multiple times in succession without any problem and in winter use the heated grips on full beans constantly.

Thanks in advance!

Henry Ford III

Could your alternator be faulty?

alan0387

I've checked the generator, and using the Haynes manual determined the output is good, the regulator/rectifier is also good and at 5k rpm the bike supplies 13.9v to the battery.

Thats the problem with bike systems, it's not a typical alternator like in a car and only charges once revs increase.

The Starter solenoid is about €90 online with a starter being €450. Neither is a cheap just try it option :eek:

stratowide

Any extras fitted like spot lights,camera,sat nav etc..?

What sort of amps are you drawing..?

Sounds a bit obvious but when you switch off the bike for a short time is it the kill switch or the ignition switch you turn off..?

alan0387

No extras bar the genuine heated grips which plug into the clocks which activate a menu in the dash. No external controls.

Can't remember the exact amp draw on the bike when off, but its well below the 30 milliamp threshold allowed.

Always use the ignition switch with the key. I've never used the kill switch to knock a bike off.

There is definitely too high a current draw while starting that is draining the battery. Like I said above if I drive to work, and end up needing to drive customer cars etc, I've left it for 2 weeks and she starts up on the button.

But I can charge the battery to 100%, start, allow to idle, for any length of time, switch it off and it won't restart unless I've driven it to recharge it.

I just can't figure out if it's the solenoid or starter. I'm thinking if I bridge the starter to bypass the ignition switch, starter switch and starter solenoid, and I get multiple starts from one charge, its the solenoid. If I only get the one, its the starter that's causing high draw.

But since the bike is my daily, I don't have much time to strip stuff off during work hours!!

larchielads

Had similar issue on a cbr600 a few years ago. Like u i tested and replaced batteries reg/rectifiers alternators. Had this guy look at it, that guy look at it, tellin me i could be this or it could be that.
Anyway my problem was the bike would cut out on me if the fan kicked in a couple of times if it was left idlin in traffuc or stationary, had it stationary while problem solvin. also what i noticed was it never cut out if the lights were off. Only when lights were on heat built up and fan kicked in that bike would cut out. But as i said checked battery reg/rectifier alternator, everythin was fine but replaced them as i thought i was goin mad.
So to make a short story long i came across a video on youtube at all hours of the mornin as it was drivin me mad, to solder the wires from alternator to the reg/rectifier. Basically their clipped together somewhere over the alternator under the fairings. I had one faulty wire from reg/rectifier to the alternator so snipped where wires joined in their white clips or whatever their called and ran 3 new wires from reg/rectifier and soldered to alternator wires and hey presto!!! no more issues.
Bit long winded but hope it helps. Might not be your issue but might put you onthe right path Ill try find youtube video

https://youtu.be/I7aEfThHS2Q

alan0387

Thank you very much, I'll certainly check them tomorrow!

Especially since bike lights come on with the ignition on all bikes now, cannot turn them off!

I've saved that video and will watch it on my break in work.

Thanks again

LookBehindYou

Sounds like a faulty REG/REC problem.
Check the connection to it first.
Get a multimeter on the battery, it should read over 12.7 volts before starting, then over 14.4 while running.

alan0387

Checked reg/rec yesterday, referencing larchielads video. The Tracer has bulky connectors straight into the reg, completely different to the video linked above.

Connectors are clean, dry and free from arcing. When fully charged the battery sits at 12.8v.

As per Haynes manual, at 5,000rpm outputs 14v to battery.

Found checks in the Haynes manual so going to do those later.

koutoubia

Myself and my son were driven demented by a Yamaha TDR125 (I Know its a different and simpler bike then yours as its a 2 stroke).
Everything was a you described. You would get it started and idling then if you switch it off it wouldnt start again.Everything pointed to a gremlin in the starting sytem.
Threw everything at the starting system....starter motor,solenoid,battery etc etc but still was not reliable.
Was even advised by a mecahic to open the fuel cap before starting as it could be vapour locking.
Eventually put a new carb in with new lines and took took ages to very finely tune the carb where it now starts first time everytime. And by very fine tuning I mean fractions of turns on the air/fuel and idle screw.
I know the warmer weather will probably be helping as well.
We are trying to keep to the same fuel brand and the same 2 stroke oil.
Both my son and I reckon the previous owner was using the wrong 2 stroke oil and was causing issues.


Dont know if any of that is of any help to you beacuse if the different bikes and set ups.

Henry Ford III

alan0387 wrote: »

Checked reg/rec yesterday, referencing larchielads video. The Tracer has bulky connectors straight into the reg, completely different to the video linked above.

Connectors are clean, dry and free from arcing. When fully charged the battery sits at 12.8v.

As per Haynes manual, at 5,000rpm outputs 14v to battery.

Found checks in the Haynes manual so going to do those later.

What speed is 5000rpm in top gear? That sounds like a very high engine speed to me.

galwaytt

alan0387 wrote: »

Checked reg/rec yesterday, referencing larchielads video. The Tracer has bulky connectors straight into the reg, completely different to the video linked above.

Connectors are clean, dry and free from arcing. When fully charged the battery sits at 12.8v.

As per Haynes manual, at 5,000rpm outputs 14v to battery.

Found checks in the Haynes manual so going to do those later.

Well 14v is right on the max of what I'd like to see, ever, on a charging circuit.

Of more import though is charging voltage at idle. It needs to be 13.3v or above at tickover; otherwise your bike is effectively running off the battery and the charging system is doing s.f.a.

The battery obviously needs to be in good health, irresspective.

Check the resistance on your stator. You can also check the output from the 3 stator wires with engine running - usallly 70v across any pair iirc. This would rule out your stator being an issue.

Which after all that just leaves your Reg/Rect unit, a part which commonly fails across all kinds of bikes.

alan0387

Thanks everyone for the input, it is greatly appreciated!

koutoubia wrote: »

Myself and my son were driven demented by a Yamaha TDR125 (I Know its a different and simpler bike then yours as its a 2 stroke).
Everything was a you described. You would get it started and idling then if you switch it off it wouldnt start again.Everything pointed to a gremlin in the starting sytem.
Threw everything at the starting system....starter motor,solenoid,battery etc etc but still was not reliable.
Was even advised by a mecahic to open the fuel cap before starting as it could be vapour locking.
Eventually put a new carb in with new lines and took took ages to very finely tune the carb where it now starts first time everytime. And by very fine tuning I mean fractions of turns on the air/fuel and idle screw.
I know the warmer weather will probably be helping as well.
We are trying to keep to the same fuel brand and the same 2 stroke oil.
Both my son and I reckon the previous owner was using the wrong 2 stroke oil and was causing issues.


Dont know if any of that is of any help to you beacuse if the different bikes and set ups.

I have read about vapour lock and the carb tuning on the American forums recently alright but I didn't think it was my issue. I thought the carb thing was more a hot start issue. If my battery is flat or too low, I can start it with a jumper pack or spare battery no problem.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What speed is 5000rpm in top gear? That sounds like a very high engine speed to me.

That sits around 140. So I tend to sit in 5th for the 5k rpm.

galwaytt wrote: »

Well 14v is right on the max of what I'd like to see, ever, on a charging circuit.

Of more import though is charging voltage at idle. It needs to be 13.3v or above at tickover; otherwise your bike is effectively running off the battery and the charging system is doing s.f.a.

The battery obviously needs to be in good health, irresspective.

Check the resistance on your stator. You can also check the output from the 3 stator wires with engine running - usallly 70v across any pair iirc. This would rule out your stator being an issue.

Which after all that just leaves your Reg/Rect unit, a part which commonly fails across all kinds of bikes.

Thanks, I'll double check voltage at idle soon, bike is downstairs in underground carpark. Then I'll dive into stator

Thanks again everybody will update soon!

galwaytt

sorry, don't forget the obvious: earths and connections. You'd be surprised how something simple like that can play havoc.

Lorddrakul

Having hunted many issues like this, I would check three things.

1. Reg/Reg, as has been astutely pointed out these fail regularly. Usually heat related. On Hondas of a certain age, they were near consumables. If the reg/rec is hot, or underneath on the flat side (it will have cooling fins) it looks blistered or cracked, it is fecked.
2. Check the connector blocks coming off the Reg/Rec going both directions. Sometimes a poor connection can cause heat build up and it melts the connector blocks and worsens the issues.
3. If you have a multi meter, check the output voltages of the stator. Look it up on the for the procedure, it isn't hard, or dangerous
It is not unheard of for newer bikes to burn out a stator. A few models of Fireblades were famous for it.

Defo, check all earth connections too, and also look at the fuse box and see if there are any melty ones.

But I'd bet either stator or Reg/rec is the issue, both of which are fixable easy enough.

alan0387

Thanks everyone for the input, I've been off work sick this past week (not covid thankfully) so I have not gotten to test yet.

As a car mechanic I'm well versed with a multimeter but just wanted to make sure nothing was vastly different on the bike.

Honestly hard to find time cause I have 3 young kids, one is autistic and another being currently assessed for same. Fingers crossed I get to bottom of this soon!!!!

Thanks again everybody, greatly appreciated!