2021-22 UEFA Champions League

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121048#Comment_118121048

So did Liverpool. It's not black and white. Ajax were gutted and rebuilt, it's only now they are hitting their stride. Pretty obvious to see

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122349#Comment_118122349

Madrid won't be anywhere near the last 4. Defence not good enough and they preserved with a midfield of Kroos, Modric and Casemiro, despite they getting the runaround versus Chelsea last year.

Against any of the EPL or Bayern, they won't figure at all.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122425#Comment_118122425

I'm aware of Michels and the history of the system. But it was down to Cruyff. As a player he was a leader, liaised and shared idea's with the manager, physically executed the plan on the field. Without Cruyff, the system wouldn't exist. His subsequent involvement, and the correlation of Ajax and Barca success when he was involved, surely proves this. Cruyff was always the architect

Cruyff gets a "sh!t tonne of credit" as an influence in football and generally speaking. But when you examine it get's little direct credit for the great Barca team we witnessed. Yes his influence is acknowledged, and he gets far more standing for his influence in Ajax, but the credit for that Barca team generally goes to Guardiola, Iniesta, Xavi and Messi. Without Cruyff none of it would have happened. Even before Guardiola took over, we seen early glimpses of the style philosophy and succes under Rijkaard. Guardiola complemented the system, but the vision and success was down to Cruyff.

It couldn't be more clear that when Cruyff took a hands off approach with Barca, the systen has flailed, and has progressively gotten worse. They buy big as the same calibre of player isn't there, Cruyff left.

Cruyffs credit for Barca's success is definitely understated

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139153#Comment_118139153

Very poor team and they know it themselves. Plan is to clearly qualify for European cup and push for league while investing as little as possible for a few years. Steady the ship and build up funds for a few years, then in 5 or 6 years will be back to their old tricks

NIMAN

Well it's looking like they will have mbappe next season anyway, but that won't solve their ills.

They have to replace Modric and Kroos, and get a couple of top defenders in, if they want to compete.

They may have pogba next year and the young lad they signed for france

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139191#Comment_118139191

This just isn't true though. Cruyff is absolutely given the credit for his legacy and any attempt to pretend he isn't is just trying to **** on the success of later manager, who have, Pep in particular pointed back to him and given him credit.

"It was down to Cruyff". It was down to Michels, who didn't give him his debut, but made him the prominent figure of his team along with Neeskens in 1965, and built a team that won the European cup in 71. He left them in a position so that they could continue to dominate. He completely modernised their approach and laid the foundation of what they would be from the 70s onwards. Cruyff has credited Michels too ffs just as plenty of his successors credited him

The Golden Miller

If you look at Madrid's history, they've won all their European cups in 3 phases, then usually disappear for a while. For me, that's why Milan were always the king's of modern European football, well to circa 2010 anyway, they were more consistently there or there abouts every year.

The financial situation for the top two in Spain is far more precarious for Barca. Madrid are just laying low not to bring attention on themselves. But people are deluded if they think there's no shady deals going on with Madrid anymore, or indirect funding from the Spanish tax payer

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140636#Comment_118140636

We'll agree to disagree I guess

citytillidie

Matchday 5

Tuesday 23rd November

17:45 Kick-offs

Group E

FC Dynamo Kyiv (UKR) V FC Bayern München (GER) - Live on BT Sport ESPN

Group F

Villarreal CF (ESP) V Manchester United FC (ENG) - Live on BT Sport 3 / RTE Two

20:00 Kick-offs

Group E

FC Barcelona (ESP) V SL Benfica (POR) - Live on BT Sport ESPN

Group F

BSC Young Boys (SUI) V Atalanta BC (ITA) - Live on BT Sport Extra 2

Group G

Sevilla FC (ESP) V VFL Wolfsburg (GER) - Live on BT Sport Extra 3

LOSC Lille (FRA) V FC Salzburg (AUT) - Live on BT Sport Extra 4

Group H

Chelsea FC (ENG) V Juventus (ITA) - Live on BT Sport 2

Malmö FF (SWE) V Football Club Zenit (RUS) - Live on BT Sport Extra 5

Wednesday 24th November

17:45 Kick-offs

Group C

Beşiktaş JK (TUR) V AFC Ajax (NED) - Live on BT Sport ESPN

Group D

FC Internazionale Milano (ITA) V FC Shakhtar Donetsk (UKR) - Live on BT Sport 1

20:00 Kick-offs

Group A

Manchester City FC (ENG) V Paris Saint-Germain (FRA) - Live on BT Sport 2 / Virgin Media Two

Club Brugge (BEL) V RB Leipzig (GER) - Live on BT Sport Extra 4

Group B

Liverpool FC (ENG) V FC Porto (POR) - Live on BT Sport 3

Club Atlético de Madrid (ESP) V AC Milan (ITA) - Live on BT Sport ESPN

Group C

Sporting Club De Portugal (POR) V Borussia Dortmund (GER) - Live on BT Sport Extra 3

Group D

FC Sheriff Tiraspol (MDA) V Real Madrid CF (ESP) - Live on BT Sport Extra 2

Mr.Nice Guy

Feels good to be able to watch a United game without Solskjaer at the helm. Pleased to see Shaw not in the squad. Interested in the contest between Danjuma and AWB. He had Dalot on toast in the reverse fixture.

Some amount of snow in Kiev for the Bayern game. The orange ball has come out.

doc_17

It’s safe to say, based on the first 3 minutes, that Utd Villarreal won’t be a classic.

Mr.Nice Guy

Great bicycle kick goal from Lewandowski.

yourdeadwright

United v Villarreal has been extremely poor quality from both sidea

doc_17

What a save from De Gea.

Mr.Nice Guy

Ronaldo!

Some think he's holding United back. 🤣

~Rebel~

Incredible finish in fairness!

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212771#Comment_118212771

Ah in fairness, what's happening is pretty much exactly what everyone expected to happen, exactly the same thing as happened with Juventus (where he joined and scored more than anyone had the previous year - but the team scored less)... everyone knew he'd score loads of goals - he's one of the very best forwards in the world! But his natural game has the potential to limit what a team can do as a whole. So it depends on where your ceiling is as a team - he could join some teams and his incredible ability will simply elevate them more than a team could ever have achieved without him. Or he could join others, and impose a lower ceiling on what they could do collectively.

I don't know where Utd fall in that scale - with their players I'd have probably thought they could be dominating and winning games much more easily without the need for these flashes of total magic out of nowhere (a front three of Rashford, Sancho, and Greenwood all running and pressing and keeping opposition defences unsettled sounds awesome). But then again, maybe I'm giving too much credit to what's there.

<edit> I would add though - as a player any squad in the world would benefit from his presence, it's just whether or not you HAVE to start him, and base your plan around him, or have the authority/bottle to use him in the right moments. Like, ideally, I think he's the best player in the world to have in the last 15 minutes, so maybe you could start with a more dynamic lineup up front.

doc_17

Hopefully Rio advocates that Utd give the job to Carrick!

~Rebel~

Smashing goal from Sancho. Good night for Carrick

PsychoPete

Carrick is at the wheel!

Utopia Parkway

...

The_Kew_Tour

Moreno sad face at the end. Ya love to see it

Mr.Nice Guy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212825#Comment_118212825

Sorry, this is nonsense. Having one of the best goalscorers on the planet, indeed of all time, doesn't put a ceiling on a team unless the coach is too stupid to figure out how to utilise him effectively. In which case, it's the poor manager who is the one that has put a ceiling on the team.

Cracking goal by Sancho and a very satisfactory result. Three points in the bag but not in a way that papers over cracks. Ideal scenario.

Utopia Parkway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212840#Comment_118212840

...

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212920#Comment_118212920

Depends on what you want from the team though.. like, we saw Ferguson bench the superior goalscorer Van Nistlerooy in favour of Saha because Saha offered more to the team.

If you want to play a high pressing game for instance (which Utd's squad would look otherwise quite well suited to), Ronaldo basically makes that impossible. As I added, every squad would benefit from Ronaldo, as long as you don't HAVE to play him.

Will be interesting to see what a good manager does anyway, whenever one arrives.

theoneeyedman

Most of United's good results over recent years have not come from high pressing, rather from sitting deep and counterattacking

Mr.Nice Guy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212980#Comment_118212980

What I want from the team is to win. United have played Villarreal three times in European competition this year, the Europa League final and the 2 group games. Without Ronaldo, United didn't win; with him, they've won twice with him scoring in both games. That's the difference he was brought in to provide.

What would this Champions League campaign be without him? It's quite a leap to say Greenwood and Rashford would do just as good or better without him when neither did nothing of note in the Europa League final.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213027#Comment_118213027

Ah yeah, I mean under a clueless manager he absolutely helped paper over cracks... all of this I suppose is in relation to what is the best version of United, which of course requires a better person in charge than we've seen so far.

Mr.Nice Guy

Chalobah gives Chelsea the lead against Juve. It was coming.

What a goalline clearance by Thiago Silva.

Super goal by Reece James. Chelsea looking good for the win now.

Well they have the win alright. Hudson-Odoi makes it 3-0. Lovely move.

Mr.Nice Guy

What a DISASTROUS miss by Seferovic against Barca. That was the win there for the taking.

It ends 0-0 at the Camp Nou. Barca 2 points clear in 2nd but in danger of missing out on the knockout stages. They travel to Bayern for their last game, while Benfica are home to bottom side Kiev.

Benfica miss an absolute sitter late on to win the game

Mr.Nice Guy

Madrid look good for the next stage but the other 4 La Liga clubs are in a real scrap to make it.

Fitz*

Is the Liverpool-Porto game on FTA in Ireland tonight or are Virgin showing Man City- PSG on both channels?

citytillidie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215563#Comment_118215563

Virgin are showing the Man City game on VM2 so it is the Live Score App to watch it

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213109#Comment_118213109

Chelsea were ridiculous, but I can't work out why the first goal stood. Firstly Jorginho bundled over a defender, but apparently that's par for the course in football now, and then secondly the ball hit at least one of Rudiger's arms, which were both across his chest, before falling to Chalobah's feet (the ball, not his arms).

On Virgin they said "they were close to his body" but didn't say "not in a natural position". It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but its not a great precedent to set. Looked 100% a free out to me.

On current form Chelsea vs Bayern would be an amazing game of football.

Mr.Nice Guy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217361#Comment_118217361

On the handball, I watched it on BT and they asked the referee chap Peter Walton that they have on commentary. He said that UEFA have changed the rules this season so that it only gets disallowed if it comes off the player that scores. So if Rudiger had scored, it would have been ruled out, but because he didn't put it in the net, it stands. The commentators before talking to him had been expecting it to be chalked off, as was I.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118216060#Comment_118216060

As an aside, has anyone managed to get the Livescore App to work on a firestick, as opposed to casting it to the TV?

Mr.Nice Guy

Had a look at Inter vs Shakhtar which the home side won 2-0 via 2 Dzeko goals. Looks like they're through to the last 16 unless Sheriff spring another surprise against Madrid later. Shakhtar RB Dodo showed some impressive moments. He was unlucky not to score, hitting the post. I see Haller has got 2 more goals for Ajax in their win over Besiktas.

Looking forward to City vs PSG later. Guardiola has left Grealish and Foden out of the squad altogether. KDB out with Covid. Zinchenko seems to be in midfield, which might mean his job is to mark Messi. PSG missing Verratti who picked up an injury in training.

I'll go City to win 2-1.

DJIMI TRARORE

City doing everything but scoring, enjoyable 1st half

y0ssar1an22

is it mad that benzema is starting tonight, now that its official, or is this nothing got to do with real?:

France and Real Madrid striker Karim Benzema has been found guilty of conspiring to blackmail a fellow French footballer with a sex tape.

A judge handed Benzema a one-year suspended jail term and ordered him to pay a €75,000 (£63,000; $84,000) fine.

PsychoPete

Neymar,Messi and Mbappe doing sweet **** all as usual

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218080#Comment_118218080

that shot of them just having a casual stroll in the park is mad

DJIMI TRARORE

Mbappe shud have done better

Mr.Nice Guy

Mbappe had a good chance and should at least have hit the target. Marquinhos has been impressive in defence.

Dortmund are heading out as it stands. They're 2-0 down to Sporting.

breezy1985

Milan with most of the ball and playing most of the football vs Atletico. Nothing too exciting in terms of chances though and pretty boring outside of a few vintage Simone style shthousing from Koke.

BanditLuke

PSG do not look like a well coached side at all.

theoneeyedman

Dortmund 2 down at half time to Sporting, and in the verge of going out as it stands.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mbappe gives PSG the lead. Probably their best move of the game so far.

y0ssar1an22

mbappe gives PSG the lead.