2021-22 UEFA Champions League

Garzorico

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986063#Comment_118986063

All of the neutrals. It’s used to be ABU and now it’s ABL.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986063#Comment_118986063

Dunno - the neutrals tend to be a bit more positivie towards Liverpool, partially becaue of Klopp's appeal and partial because the alternative is City.

I don't class United fans as neutral, though. Honest, fair - sure - but let's face it, we'd be the same in their shoes.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985858#Comment_118985858

He’s not alone there in fairness. Football commentary and grammatical butchery go hand in hand.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986320#Comment_118986320

The neutrals were definitely with little Villarreal tonight

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985917#Comment_118985917

I wouldn't say Villareal fluked their way past anyone - they got through those 2 rounds against Juve and Bayern with a 6-2 total scoreline, and didn't lose any of those 4 legs. The actual 4 best teams in this years competition have probably been City, Madrid, Liverpool, and Chelsea - but it just happened that 3 of those 4 were on the same side of the draw.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986566#Comment_118986566

I wouldn’t say they fluked their way through Juve. Juve weren’t a possible winner in my opinion. Against bayern in Germany it was a smash and grab.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986692#Comment_118986692

To an extent - but they had much the better chances against Bayern in Spain. They should've had even more than the 1 goal lead based on their play. They got their deserved win, and then went to Germany and made sure they weren't beaten - so over two legs they well deserved to go through entirely on merit.

Ultimately, Bayern had 4 knockout matches against - on paper - inferior opposition, and were deeply underwhelming in 3 of them. That's why they went out.

LineOfBeauty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984692#Comment_118984692

Essentially you're saying that this guy has pulled the wool over the eyes of the 3 biggest clubs in the world, all the while winning trophies and setting insanely high points totals. The truth is the overthinking thing is a myth. He makes decisions every game that you could spin as "overthinking." Starting with Gabriel Jesus whose barely played all year in the first leg of the Champions League semi final? Overthinking. Using Phil Foden as a false 9? That's overthinking too. It's only when he loses a big game that these decisions that he makes consistently through a season is spun as "overthinking" when in reality for each game of the season he picks the best team and plan that he thinks will win them the game.

And the 2nd bit isn't worth getting into. A referendum on one of the most successful coaches every whose team are leading going into the 2nd leg of a Champions League semi final isn't the way.

citytillidie

People forgetting Villarreal are there for winning last seasons Europa League.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987022#Comment_118987022

I don't think he is useless or anything but one of his best skills has certainly been to sell this myth of the super intellectual philosopher manager. I don't think he could cope with a club that can't just buy whoever he wants and I think his slavish devotion to this "philosophy" made Bayern Munich a worse team under his tenure. For instance I don't think he could have handled the Real situation this year or the current Barca situation.

Thing is if I said Jose was an egomaniac who sometimes hurt his own teams most wouldn't bat an eyelid but it's complete insanity to claim Pep might be equally as self absorbed.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986486#Comment_118986486

Well yeah - underdogs....

LineOfBeauty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987143#Comment_118987143

You know that when he took over Barcelona they'd finished 3rd, 10 points behind Villareal and 18 points behind Real Madrid and were dumped out of the Champions League semi final without scoring a goal over 2 legs? I don't know what the Real Madrid situation is this year.

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986092#Comment_118986092

36 trophies vs 4 - yeah, makes total sense. Pep has won twice as many at City, surely it should be as easy as ABC?

SlickRic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986063#Comment_118986063

i think this is it tbh.

this Villareal team beat Juventus and Bayern over 2 legs. it's not like they avoided the big guns and happened to be there. they've earned it, and simply came up against a machine last night.

did I think Villareal would stand a chance? No.

but that doesn't mean they don't deserve their place, or as some others have argued, this proves that the Super League idea might be a good one as it makes sure big guns are in the big games. Villareal making it here is part of the reason the CL is brilliant as it is. Liverpool in 05 were pretty shít bar Gerrard's talismanic talent and Carragher's pure grit. but they beat Juve, a brilliant Chelsea team managed by Mourinho (possibly their best version), and then the best AC Milan team there has arguably ever been.

i think people are (understandably) a bit sick of Liverpool, and just wanted them to be beaten. the media's Quad talk is getting slightly tedious. and when it was obvious they were simply too 'on it' last night once the first goal went in, then the narrative quickly shifted to Villareal not deserving to be there. it's predictable, and it's normal. i'd want them beaten too if I was a 'neutral'.

Dcully

So this so called ABL is set to continue as Kloop wants to stay longer than his current contract:)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987263#Comment_118987263

I do know that but of course you leave out the bit where they had won the Champions League the the year before that so they were not really that bad a team when he took over now were they. His Barca record is very impressive and as I said I don't think he is useless or anything but his Barca record is 1 club 10 years ago and since then I think he has City probably where they would be anyway and regressed Bayern.

LineOfBeauty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987572#Comment_118987572

No point in arguing that. Anyone watching Bayern regularly will tell you the opposite. Basing your judgements solely on a single competition is silly, especially a knockout competition which is far more unpredictable than a league situation. And let's see if Man City dominate domestically like they have under Guardiola once he's gone, I hope we do but equally I know this is a once in a lifetime situation for the club. And I can tell you we didn't dominate like this before him.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987675#Comment_118987675

You honestly don't think another manager can turn all that money into trophies. I would have little fear for the club if he left unless the club signed some batsht left field manager which I doubt they will do.

I get that as a City supporter you would be a fan of his I mean I have my own managers I would be biased towards too but honestly I don't see it with Pep at least not to the level he is lauded.

LineOfBeauty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987733#Comment_118987733

Well there's this other team in Manchester who've spent an absolute fortune and since Ferguson have very little to show for it, and they've had some pretty highly rated coaches in that time too. Barcelona have also spent a fortune and they're in a pretty bad position right now also. Everton and Arsenal also not shy in spending some big money and again very little return on investment there. You can have money, but if it's not invested properly and if the project isn't right then it doesn't automatically equate to success. The kind of success we've had under Guardiola has been domination domestically, which for this club has always been the aim and the will of the fans first and foremost.

Hughes, Mancini and Pellegrini all did well enough but nothing like this. Very few, if any, managers can deliver this. It's a special time for the club, and if the season ends with the Premier League and Champions League it would be the zenith of one of English footballs greatest ever teams.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987832#Comment_118987832

The problems in those clubs go way beyond money or manager and I think no one could save them. Not anyone who any of us thinks is a great manager. City are a much better run club. Funny you mentioned Arsenal though and Arteta is the kind of thing that grates me about Pep. The man had no managerial experience but never got the scrutiny that Ole or Lampard got because he worked for a while under the all mighty god himself.

As for City your kidding yourself if you think domestic success is what the owners want and as for managers Hughes was never big enough and Pellegrini was a misstep and always felt like an interim. Mancini is the only one I would call a top quality manager and at Peps level.

LineOfBeauty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987940#Comment_118987940

Yes the club has to align with the manager and there's many different factors that play into a club's success. Undoubtedly one of the biggest ones is money. The teams that win the big leagues every year tend to be the richest, the clubs that win Champions League tend to be the richest. Football has changed so much in the last 20 years, and particularly in the last 10-15 where now before any Champions League campaign realistically there's just above half a dozen clubs that can feasibly win it. So the top coaches are at those clubs, like the top players are at those clubs, and the best young players and coaches want to be at those clubs.

Maybe your issue is with the reverence for Guardiola? It's earned. Watch a top Premier League game from 10 years ago, and watch one now. They look completely different. Like in a lot of ways, some of that brought in directly by Guardiola himself, some of it created directly to counter Guardiola football. He's a defining figure in football history.

I think you're mixing up Abramovich, whose football motives at least, were European based, with City's ownership who've always prioritized domestic success. If we win Champions League this season it'll be one of the best achievements in the club history, right among the top, but I wouldn't necessarily put it above the Aguero moment, or the back to back league wins. Knocking Man Utd off their perch has been the sweetest thing of all.

SlickRic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987733#Comment_118987733

Pep cannot be defined by the Champions League. he's never won it without Messi, but that does not mean any manager can do what he does.

Every manager has a weakness. Even Pep. His false 9 system gives him ultimate control, but it means that he sacrifices clinical forward men, and often defenders who can properly defend, because their main job is to control possession. This means his teams are prone to direct teams who can get in behind quickly and decisively. These are teams he will often meet at latter stages of the CL.

as an aside, Messi helped make the system pretty much unbeatable, because you basically had a mixture of Xavi and Maradona as your striker. you could keep the ball at will in the final third, while also being clinical, and also having someone who could routinely dribble past 3 and score (often rendering a deep defence meaningless).

Pep is the greatest league winning manager I've ever seen, and he's also influenced the way football is fundamentally played in a way I don't think I've seen since Cruyff and Sacchi respectively. That latter point will be more his legacy than the amount of trophies he wins, despite the fact he'll probably have the biggest trophy haul in managerial history by the time all is said and done.

City will not be the same when he's gone.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987982#Comment_118987982

His league record is exceptional even when you factor in he was at a 2 horse league (at the time) followed a 1 horse league. But it's very naive to say modern top managers "cannot be defined by the Champions League" it is most certainly a factor in all top managers now and I also think the "changed the way football is played" is one of the big overblown myths that puts me off the guy.

SlickRic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988024#Comment_118988024

when I say he can't be defined by it, it means that it's not the only thing that goes into assessing him. just like you can't dismiss Ferguson as an all-time great because of his CL record (by comparison to his league dominance), you must do the same for Pep.

and he didn't change football. but there is no doubt he has heavily influenced it. I'd love it to be a myth, but it's not.

jacool

In future Champions League news, it looks like another punch in the face for football fans, with a proposal to make the semi-finals one legged neutral affairs as part of a "week of football", where the semis are midweek and the subsequent final is on the weekend.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988644#Comment_118988644

Let's see.

Nothing decided yet, just a kite flown, but still. UEFA are not complete fools, many of the changes in European football in recent years are met with an outcry of sorts, but they tend to work out. Take the Europa Conference recently, was laughed out of it, but in some way it works alongside the other competitions. In the Covid year, the last 8 Mini tourney was great to watch, albeit as a once off on neutral ground. Same with the away goals this year, I wouldn't have thought I. T was a good idea, but the games have been good.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992976#Comment_118992976

The big question for me would be what is the planned ticket allocation for these semi finals. At a guess it will be fk all for the teams and fk all for the locals who will be declared "integral to the festival of football"

Mr.Nice Guy

I quite liked the pandemic Champions League where the games were one-off affairs. Not sure about having it in the CL, though. It might have been better to trial this in the Conference League. It would help give it a distinctive feel that the other tournaments wouldn't have.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The thing about a final "week" is that you're going to have four sets of fans descending on one city at the same time. I can't imagine the local police force enjoying the idea. Not to metnion the chaos of trying to find reasonably priced hotel rooms (I'm told it's bad enough in Paris as it is, and that's with only two teams)

They didnt even like Real and Athletico playing in Madrid in the same midweek...

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992976#Comment_118992976

I'm not sure on the exact stats, but the removal of away goals seems to have made the 1st legs of these games more attacking. I know it will take a larger data set over a few years to really come to a conclusion, but that's something I've noticed so far.

I still would have preferred to keep away goals for 90 mins, but if it makes the game more attacking and have more games like the Real Madrid - Chelsea & Real Madrid - Man City, then I'm in favour of it.

NIMAN

Balance of the draw off this season?

For Madrid to win the CL this season, they will have to beat PSG, Chelsea, Man City then Liverpool.

If Liverpool win it, they will have had to beat Inter, Benfica, Villarreal then either City or Madrid.

Luck favouring Pool this year

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994925#Comment_118994925

Just the way things fall really... there's always little surprises that crop up and shift the 'on paper' perspective of a path. Like, Liverpool could've had; Inter, Ajax, Bayern, Madrid/City, (along with a group of Milan, Atletico Madrid, Porto) which suddenly looks tougher - but ultimately Ajax and Bayern got knocked out by Benfica and Villareal.

I'd say Villareal and Real Madrid have had the toughest paths with how things have worked out.

martyos121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994925#Comment_118994925

We were drawn into a group where all four teams would’ve been expecting to go through in any given year, and we won all 6 games.

Yes we absolutely got a favourable draw in the knockout stages, but we earned that luck.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119003374#Comment_119003374

Nonsense. No one expected AC Milan to go through after being missing for so long and Porto only go through with a favourable draw. Atleti were the only ones a team like Liverpool should fear.

Ye will play a big team in the final and be fully deserving of ye win it.

NIMAN

What odds an all Spanish final?

Would need to be huge.

8-10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009306#Comment_119009306

50/1 with PP

80/1 for Real to beat Villarreal in the final or 150/1 a Villarreal win

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009306#Comment_119009306

84/1 (bet365 via oddschecher)

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994925#Comment_118994925

I like your thinking putting Liverpool in the final....

NIMAN

Well, the bookies aren't often wrong.

Plus pool have a great away record in the CL. they will score for sure tonight. Can't see Villarreal getting 3.

8-10

"Your ticket application for the UEFA Champions League Final Paris 2022 has not been successful"

Was a long shot but had a glimmer of hope!

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010109#Comment_119010109

And doesn't help that majority of tickets go to THE FAMILY rather than football fans.

I've been at 4 cl finals and the amount of hangers on in black people carriers rolling up to the stadium is shocking.

internelligent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010109#Comment_119010109

I've gotten nothing back yet myself. Only submitted the application 2 minutes before the cut off time. Would you mind telling me if you checked the box which opened your application to every category, (to increase your chance of getting a ticket)?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010460#Comment_119010460

4 finals ?

Are you sure your not a hanger on 🤣

Seriously though it's the thing that most makes me sceptical of this "festival of football" semi final idea.

NIMAN

Definitely not a hanger on.

I didn't get put up in hotels, get free tickets, get chauffeured about and free food and drink.

I slummed it.

8-10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010486#Comment_119010486

I did, I think it opened application to category above or below only and there's 4 category so if you went for Cat 1 or 4 you are open to 2 categories and if you picked 2 or 3 you're open to 3.

Looking at Twitter it looks like plenty have got the emails for this and the EL final so maybe check spam folders or just log in to the website it will tell you when you check status of application.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010460#Comment_119010460

Yeah it's shocking, I got lucky in the Liverpool ballot in 2018 but missed out in 2019. This year I don't have the credits even if Liverpool get there (they should do the nice thing and run the ballot for those unsuccessful for the 2019 final!) but was planning on going regardless if I got a ticket. Now if Liverpool don't go through tonight I won't travel.

NIMAN

They're getting through, don't panic

8-10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010555#Comment_119010555

Klopp lost last time he took Liverpool to that stadium. They're a great story and echoes of the way we used to approach big knockout ties as unfancied underdogs with players that on paper are talented but not top quality with a good knockout cup manager. And we knocked out much better teams than us a good few times.

First goal crucial tonight and wary of Moreno being back for this one.

Can't not get excited though all the same, Champions League Semi Final is massive. I'm struggling to concentrate on anything else today and still hours to go!

NIMAN

Weather terrible there too apparently, so might be a leveller

But Villarreal don't need a leveller, they need a 2 goal margin. At least.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010522#Comment_119010522

I assume you have been to many a non final too. Does the "family" section ruin the final atmosphere ?

NIMAN

Been to a scattering of games across UK and Europe too over the years. Haven't been to one in ages, kids put am end to my gallivanting.

The final atmospheres were always very good, but they would have been a lot better had there been loads more fans at the games.