Proper Surge Protection?

thos

Hi all,
I live relatively rural, and seem prone to power outages related to surges or spikes. Frequency is 4-5 times over past 7 years, but tends to do damage to home equipment.
The issue seems to be birds shorting out lines on poles leading up to my hose, and requires ESB to come out and fix each time.
The problem for me when it happens, is that it causes damage to networking equipment in my house. This time it looks like it's taken out a network switch and some Wifi equipment.

I have all of the network equipment behind a small UPS system which is supposed to have surge protection
this is the unit here - https://www.apc.com/shop/my/en/products/APC-Back-UPS-1400VA-230V-AVR-Universal-and-IEC-Sockets/P-BX1400U-MS

The specs says this unit has 273 joules of surge protection, which I'm guessing isn't enough, based on the fact that it's still damaged equipment on me this time around.

So how do I get some proper surge protection in my home without breaking the bank?

LenWoods

If it's an ongoing issue I suggest looking at having a surge protector switch fitted in to your main switch board;
Shouldnt take an electrician long to do; most expensive would be the part then around one hour labor,
I suspect to see an increase in surge cases as wind farms become more mainstream due to increased fluctuations but I could be wrong on that theroy; just depends on how good the ESB technician's integrate the wind farms to the main grid.

I've fitted three of these Tacima Mains conditioning sockets in my home with television and network equipment plugged in,
They have a number of different capacitor's inside which provides surge protection aswell as blocking out white noise from appliances such as fridges or tumble dryers, which can impact on Audio equipment output,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tacima-6-Way-Mains-Conditioner-black/dp/B00UB0G4DQ/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Tacima+socket&qid=1623168043&sr=8-1


There's a button on them to press and test there still protecting; but from my understanding when a surge hits; these type of devices die in an effort to save your equipment.

Here's a distribution panel in my attic which is fully protected,
This panel provides saoirview, virgin media, sattelite and RJ45 network to every room of the home, all protected by one strip,

Thankfully I have never gotten a surge or anything and live in a town but I did research everything prior to purchase in an effort to create a quality system these Tacima units block out surges aswell as electronic noise.



As you can see there's one fitted on the main panel and another one on the top left on the wall; it provides power to floating box shelves in a bedroom below; the electronic time clock powers the television in the room ensuring it doesn't stay on all night.



Each room has a Tacima protection socket strip fitted.

Genre..

My limited understanding is that you protect the main board and then sub-boards and equipment

Haven't heard of it being a major issue either

Lenar3556

thos wrote: »

Hi all,
I live relatively rural, and seem prone to power outages related to surges or spikes. Frequency is 4-5 times over past 7 years, but tends to do damage to home equipment.
The issue seems to be birds shorting out lines on poles leading up to my hose, and requires ESB to come out and fix each time.
The problem for me when it happens, is that it causes damage to networking equipment in my house. This time it looks like it's taken out a network switch and some Wifi equipment.

I have all of the network equipment behind a small UPS system which is supposed to have surge protection
this is the unit here - https://www.apc.com/shop/my/en/products/APC-Back-UPS-1400VA-230V-AVR-Universal-and-IEC-Sockets/P-BX1400U-MS

The specs says this unit has 273 joules of surge protection, which I'm guessing isn't enough, based on the fact that it's still damaged equipment on me this time around.

So how do I get some proper surge protection in my home without breaking the bank?

That particular UPS will do very little for power quality. The ‘proper’ solution is an on-line double conversion UPS. This will provide a sustained sine wave output even when faced with distorted or missing mains.

Basic surge protection devices, while no harm to have, personally I wouldn’t rate them as an effective means of protecting sensitive electronics.

thos

@LenWoods - is there any joules rating on those Tacima power strips?

@Lenar3556 - any particular devices you would recommend?

westom

LenWoods wrote: »

I've fitted three of these Tacima Mains conditioning sockets in my home with television and network equipment plugged in, .

Most of that post is technical lies easily promoted to naive consumers.

For example, no protector has filters sufficient to eliminate noise. Even the first filter in every power supply is superior. Power supply filters AC. Converts all AC (including noise) to DC. Then filters again. Then created well over 300 volt radio frequency spikes. The galvanic isolation, regulators, and more filters convert that 'dirtiest' (well over 300 volt spikes) into rock stable low DC voltages that do not vary by even 0.2 volts.

That filtering is simply one example of how easily scams get promoted.

Second, no protector does protection. Anyone can read its numbers. It only claims to 'block' or 'absorb' hundreds or thousand joules. Near zero. All electronics convert a surge that tiny into low DC voltages that do not vary by even 0.2 volts. Protection inside electronics is more robust - superior.

No problem. When that protector fails (and appliances protect themselves), then naive consumers (who make conclusions only from observation) will then declare, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my electronics." Then buy more high profit magic boxes.

A surge, too tiny to damage electronics, will destroy that grossly undersized protector. Catastrophic failure (that must never happen after any surge) gets the naive to recommend and buy it. Effective protectors never fail even decades later after many direct lightning strikes. With spec numbers that say so.

Worse, where are they located? In an attic. Once a fire gets into an attic, a whole house can be lost.

Third, no protector does protection. Effective protectors (from other companies known for integrity) are only connecting devices to what does all protection. Single point earth ground. All four words have major significance. Protectors are only earthed when connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to the item that harmlessly dissipates hundreds of thousands of joules.

Honest recommendations only exist when specification numbers are also discussed. How does that tiny joule protector protect from surges that are potentially destructive? It hundreds joules will protect from hundreds of thousands of joules? It only protects profit margins that pay for a massive disinformation campaign.

Effective protectors, from companies known for their integrity, have a dedicated wire that makes that low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to single point earth ground. Protection is never defined by a protector. Protection is defined by that item that harmlessly dissipates energy - those earthing electrodes.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Obviously wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground.

Protection only exists when every wire inside every incoming cable, makes a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to earth ground. TV cable and satellite dish make that connection directly (no protector). AC electric and telephone cannot connect directly. So a protector makes that low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends or splices) connection to earth.

Protection means every incoming wire drops down to make that low impedance connection before entering. This Tech Note demonstrates what is relevant. Even underground wires can be the incoming path for a direct lightning strike.

Protection only exists when that energy dissipates harmlessly outside. Where is this magic box that will 'block' what 3 kilometers of sky cannot? Only scams will not discuss that number.

Where is this magic box that will harmlessly 'absorb' hundreds of thousands of joules? More numbers they need one to ignore - to protect profit margins. What claims even less protection? A UPS.

Four, a protector adjacent to an appliance can even compromise (bypass) what is better protection already inside electronics. Just another reason why consumers do not waste large sums on near zero protectors. And properly earth 'whole house' protection to protect least robust items in a house - those plug-in protectors.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. That has not changed in over 100 years of well understood science.

Lenar3556

westom wrote: »

Most of that post is technical lies easily promoted to naive consumers.

For example, no protector has filters sufficient to eliminate noise. Even the first filter in every power supply is superior. Power supply filters AC. Converts all AC (including noise) to DC. Then filters again. Then created well over 300 volt radio frequency spikes. The galvanic isolation, regulators, and more filters convert that 'dirtiest' (well over 300 volt spikes) into rock stable low DC voltages that do not vary by even 0.2 volts.

That filtering is simply one example of how easily scams get promoted.

Second, no protector does protection. Anyone can read its numbers. It only claims to 'block' or 'absorb' hundreds or thousand joules. Near zero. All electronics convert a surge that tiny into low DC voltages that do not vary by even 0.2 volts. Protection inside electronics is more robust - superior.

No problem. When that protector fails (and appliances protect themselves), then naive consumers (who make conclusions only from observation) will then declare, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my electronics." Then buy more high profit magic boxes.

A surge, too tiny to damage electronics, will destroy that grossly undersized protector. Catastrophic failure (that must never happen after any surge) gets the naive to recommend and buy it. Effective protectors never fail even decades later after many direct lightning strikes. With spec numbers that say so.

Worse, where are they located? In an attic. Once a fire gets into an attic, a whole house can be lost.

Third, no protector does protection. Effective protectors (from other companies known for integrity) are only connecting devices to what does all protection. Single point earth ground. All four words have major significance. Protectors are only earthed when connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to the item that harmlessly dissipates hundreds of thousands of joules.

Honest recommendations only exist when specification numbers are also discussed. How does that tiny joule protector protect from surges that are potentially destructive? It hundreds joules will protect from hundreds of thousands of joules? It only protects profit margins that pay for a massive disinformation campaign.

Effective protectors, from companies known for their integrity, have a dedicated wire that makes that low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to single point earth ground. Protection is never defined by a protector. Protection is defined by that item that harmlessly dissipates energy - those earthing electrodes.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Obviously wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground.

Protection only exists when every wire inside every incoming cable, makes a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to earth ground. TV cable and satellite dish make that connection directly (no protector). AC electric and telephone cannot connect directly. So a protector makes that low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends or splices) connection to earth.

Protection means every incoming wire drops down to make that low impedance connection before entering. This Tech Note demonstrates what is relevant. Even underground wires can be the incoming path for a direct lightning strike.

Protection only exists when that energy dissipates harmlessly outside. Where is this magic box that will 'block' what 3 kilometers of sky cannot? Only scams will not discuss that number.

Where is this magic box that will harmlessly 'absorb' hundreds of thousands of joules? More numbers they need one to ignore - to protect profit margins. What claims even less protection? A UPS.

Four, a protector adjacent to an appliance can even compromise (bypass) what is better protection already inside electronics. Just another reason why consumers do not waste large sums on near zero protectors. And properly earth 'whole house' protection to protect least robust items in a house - those plug-in protectors.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. That has not changed in over 100 years of well understood science.

I agree that a suitably low earth loop impedance is necessary for the correct operation of most surge protection. But why do you suggest that this is obviously missing in the case of these plug-in things?

westom

Lenar3556 wrote: »

I agree that a suitably low earth loop impedance is necessary for the correct operation of most surge protection. But why do you suggest that this is obviously missing in the case of these plug-in things?

How long is a power cord on that plug-in protector. 2 meters? How long is a wire from receptacle to power panel? 5 plus meters? How long is a hardwire from power panel to earthing electrodes? Already impedance is excessive.

How many sharp bends in those wires? Some must exist inside receptacle boxes. Some obviously exist where wires are looped together to make the installation look cleaner. Impedance excessive.

How many splices make connections. More impedance increases.

Even protectors in an attic mean a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection is impossible.

Just to be clear, no earth ground exists in any receptacle. That is only a safety ground. Earth grounds are only the hardware connection to and electrodes in earth.

No plug-in protector adjacent to appliances can possibly have a low impedance connection to earth. Those are Type 3 protectors. Those must be more than 9 meters from a power panel and earth ground. For human safety reasons and due to its tiny joules. Only Type 1 and Type 2 protectors can make a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to earth. No 'whole house' protection is apparently anywhere in that installation.

whizbang

I see you still havent fitted the smoke alarm Len..

LenWoods

whizbang wrote: »

I see you still havent fitted the smoke alarm Len..

Haven't updated the pictures, :pac: same picture since day one those images are from archive of my home improvement thread there almost four years old now, but still relevant to the main toic.

Lenar3556

westom wrote: »

How long is a power cord on that plug-in protector. 2 meters? How long is a wire from receptacle to power panel? 5 plus meters? How long is a hardwire from power panel to earthing electrodes? Already impedance is excessive.

How many sharp bends in those wires? Some must exist inside receptacle boxes. Some obviously exist where wires are looped together to make the installation look cleaner. Impedance excessive.

How many splices make connections. More impedance increases.

Even protectors in an attic mean a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection is impossible.

Just to be clear, no earth ground exists in any receptacle. That is only a safety ground. Earth grounds are only the hardware connection to and electrodes in earth.

No plug-in protector adjacent to appliances can possibly have a low impedance connection to earth. Those are Type 3 protectors. Those must be more than 9 meters from a power panel and earth ground. For human safety reasons and due to its tiny joules. Only Type 1 and Type 2 protectors can make a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to earth. No 'whole house' protection is apparently anywhere in that installation.

The impedance to earth at a socket outlet will be pretty low. Likely much lower than if you take a cable out of a surge protection device and drive it into the floor below you.

You also have to consider the cable impedances you refer will also provide a throttling effect on the magnitude of the surge able to reach the surge protection device in the first instance.

Henry...

What I read before was that you get surges from inside and outside and installation

When you're fitting the SPDs you have to start at the main board first and work your way down to the equipment itself