Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170165#Comment_118170165

Considering not many people on this thread enjoy context, I'll remove it. Simple facts are Kenny has achieved what was expected of him in his first campaign, he's entitled and deserving of another campaign. Any other talk is redundant.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170251#Comment_118170251

You should tell the Portuguese squad laden down with world class talent that Ireland should have been easy for them to play against, twice.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170198#Comment_118170198

I knew that would be mentioned but overall Micks Irish teams are always in the mix for results regardless who they play - it leads to more chance of qualifying IMO. Mick tailors the team to the players he has not the other way around. He played Duff upfront in 2002 made Stan a CB. That was using what he had to their best attributes. He played ‘attractive’ football later he was more pragmatic, in his second stint. I don’t see the same level of adaptability from Kenny.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170251#Comment_118170251

Do you mean McCarthy when you say Mick?

Do you really believe we should give him a 3rd shot given his second one was nothing special

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170261#Comment_118170261

Looking at it logically one was a collapse from a winning position. The other was ‘hope’ they don’t score. It was not as good as some make out. Plus Serbia showed get it in the mixer Portugal are vulnerable.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170290#Comment_118170290

Yeah I do Mick McCarthy is a solid experienced manager and better calibre than Kenny IMO. Plus McCarthy would not want a fortune he loves the Ireland job. End of Kenny’s contract Mick a great option.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170302#Comment_118170302

So we go back to the guy who lead one of the most boring periods I have ever seen from an Ireland team. Waiting game after game to even see a goal. Absolutely retrograde step and we will be back to wondering why we are losing to the "minnows" and have no young talent coming up in no time

elefant

Mick once explicitly didn't bother calling up any left back to play a friendly against Bulgaria, deciding it was better to give Hourihane a run out there.

That's the level of progressive thinking we need back around the Ireland setup.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170280#Comment_118170280

Ah come on. The Irish team Mick had first time around was a very good group with a couple of world and international class players at top club teams. Incomparable to the current crop. Mick's second stint was poor stuff. Kenny gets stick that he "only" beat Luxembourg and Azerbaijan etc. Mick's competitive wins in his second stint came against Gibraltar twice and Georgia and the football was generally very poor. So not only was the football bad but he didn't get results either.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170318#Comment_118170318

That was just the cycle of players available and Mick at least made his teams hard to beat. You cannot hope to qualify without the latter as a small nation. As regards goals scored how many goals were scored against Ireland under Kenny by minnows?? Kenny is still on a C- to me. I am just not convinced and there surely could be better managers out there at the end of his contract? If he was running a company the board would be wise to keep thier options open IMO. No better candidates appear fine keep Kenny. But it would be silly to close off options.

Pawwed Rig

And if we did replace Kenny with Mick and Mick failed again, then what? Bring MON back?

Brussels Sprout

I see a lot of parallels between people saying "I'm not convinced yet, let's wait and see" on this topic and those saying "I'm not going to take the vaccine yet. Let's wait and see". In both cases it usually comes from someone who wants the fig leaf of seeming like they just need more evidence to reach a sober and logical decision whereas in reality their mind is typically already made up and nothing is likely change it.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170165#Comment_118170165

So get rid of a young progressive manager and bring back a manager that was let go by Ireland, sacked in a few weeks in cyprus and has been hated by the fans of Ipswitch and Cardiff because the football was shite?? Talk about nonsense.

Mick is finished, the game has passed him by. At Cardiff where he could by and sell players he played with 5 centre halfs at the back. Caveman stuff.

The reason most people say renew the contract as there are 2 friendlies and 4 nations league games before Kenny contract is up. If the FAI let his contract run down a new manager gets 2 or 4 games before qualifying starts and you would essentially be writing off another campaign.

If Mick was still there, how many of the 16 new caps Kenny has given would have got a game? Doherty and coleman would not be playing together and theres a good chance many of the results would have been the same - see previous examples of Gibraltar and Georgia.

You've stated Kenmy is tactically nieve? How so? Is it because he didnt have the team camping on the edge of there box for 85 minutes and actually tried to play football? He tried total football in the nations league, realised we didnt have the midfielders to do it and has since changed the style. If he was nieve he wouldnt have changed and adopted. Did you say the same about Kloop and Pep when they were trying to change a style at club level and were getting laughed at for conceeding silly goals?

You also mention Mick in 2002?? Really?? Why dont you go compare the squads and what clubs they played with and what divisons and look at the current squad. In fact Kenny and Mick in the end finished in the exact same position, 3rd in the group. Since some say results are all that matters then they are equal.

Any manager that may be interested in Ireland would ideally want to wait for another campaign untill all the young players are hitting 20 caps.

So all in all, you dont like Kenny and best replacement is a manager who got 18 months with Ireland and failed to qualify and then got sacked twice in less than a year at 2 clubs? Kinda proves you have an agenda and are just talking nonsense at this stage.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169283#Comment_118169283

Would he look unreal with the heavy balls they used back then or on the mucky pitches they played on?

gormdubhgorm

I just have a feeling there is a lot of hysteria about Kenny at the moment. He is been painted as the sole Irish football saviour by some. Lisa Fallon saying he ‘captured hearts and minds of the nation’. Mad stuff.

What did Kenny do mainly only blood players. Mick McCarthy did that after Jack Charlton and more. Is Kenny capable of the ‘and more’ I am yet to be convinced- that is just my opinion. A more experienced manager would give Ireland a better chance after Kenny’s contract is up IMO. If available.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170251#Comment_118170251

Interesting that you think he only did half his job by focusing on youth - that overhaul of the squad was absolutely required and I believe will stand us in good stead going into future campaigns. It’s a young squad that can hopefully form the backbone of future campaigns for years to come, and for me the most it’s the most important thing that he’s done since coming in.

I also think qualification to the WC would have been looked at as a bonus rather than an expectation, which I think is reasonable. We haven’t qualified for a World Cup with pragmatic managers and better players, so expecting a squad refresh and WC qualification is unrealistic. We have to be honest with where we are right now. There are currently 13 spots at a World Cup for UEFA, and we’re not close to being a top 13 side. Focusing at building a side to qualify for 2024 is the far more realistic aim, and changing managers just before qualification begins would be detrimental imo.

I also disagree that Kenny is overly centred on philosophy - I think he had an idea of how he wanted us to play when he came in but it wasn’t working and he’s changed it. I do think his philosophy is to get a system that will suit the players he has. As the team has gotten better I believe he’s gotten better as an international manager.

So while there might be more accomplished managers out there, I don’t think there’s anyone who would suit the players and the FAIs budget more than Kenny.

jaykay74

If we focus on McCarthy then as an alternative to Kenny which result or performance from his recent stint with a similar but not identical selection of players to choose from would give you most reason to be hopeful ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170302#Comment_118170302

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170431#Comment_118170431

Maybe the 1-0 away to Gibraltar or the 0-0 against Georgia. /s

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170302#Comment_118170302

The guy whose only competitive wins in his year in charge were against the powerhouses of Gibraltar and Georgia is the guy for you? Jaysus.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170421#Comment_118170421

Ya that's also true.

I think people have taken what I said at some dig at Giles or older players but I was actually using the example to back up how good our past goalkeepers were and it's unfair to compare them to Bazunu.

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170367#Comment_118170367

He's clearly on the wind up, I wouldn't encourage entertaining him. Jesus look at MM's last two jobs, shocking, shocking bad. I'd expect him to be retiring.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170302#Comment_118170302

Dear god!!!

Mick got over 1m a year and got a 1m payoff for no reason. Mick robbed the FAI blind.

Everytime you talk about Mick you talk about 20 years ago.

Theres no hysteria about Kenny, he may not work out long term, but with what he has done so far, he deserves the Euros. I dont think anyone here who wants Kenny to stay is saying he would be there for life as you seem to make out. He deserves 2 more years at it.

More experienced, pragmatic managers (as well as poor FAI management) is what has us where we are now. I for one love hearing we do have good players, the players clearly love the style and have bought into it and so have the fans in the stadium. If all you think Kenny has done is blood young players you clearly dont have a clue about football.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170568#Comment_118170568

I realise it is a sensitve issue for many on this thread any any slight criticism of Kenny means - 'anti Kenny - or how dare you attack our saviour.' vibe. So I will let the no clue about football thing slide. It is an opinion and this is an opinion board.

I also mentioned Mick McCarthy's differing approaches in his two stints in Irish football not just the first. So me only mentioning Mick's first stint is false. The fella was adaptable.

If a game was win or bust and a team had to perform greater than the sum of its parts. If I had a choice I would prefer a manager like MM in the corner instead of SK. SK does not seem to handle pressure very well and is not very adaptable tactically. He is wedded to a 'philosophy'. When tactics should be made to suit the players not having Duffy try play keep ball at the back etc. So I would argue there surely could be better options than SK when his contract runs out. If no other options appear fine keep Kenny. But to me he is just a stop gap at the moment.

Agent Coulson

Since Kenny brought in Anthony Barry to the coaching staff there has been a marked change in how Ireland play.

There has been a move to being more pragmatic when needed.

Kenny will be given a new contract and will now have the whole of 2022 to get ready for Euro 2024 qualifiers which start in March 2023.

He needs continue showing a marked progression during the Nations League in 2022 if that doesn't happen the questions about if he is up to the job won't go away.

I would be building the team around Knight.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170330#Comment_118170330

MM explained his reasoning at the time.

If I remember he did alright there Ireland won 3-1.

Mick McCarthy also made Duff into a forward - Staunton into a centre back....in his earlier time with Ireland.

GLaDOS

Think its unfair to say Kenny can't adapt tactics, when we've seen him change from 433 (Which was I agree he was a little dogmatic about at first) to 523/532 which definitely suits us better.

We probably should have been playing something like that from the start of his reign, but he recognised the problem and fixed it.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170658#Comment_118170658

Ok so, Kenny should ask Duffy to do something he isnt doing at club level?? Makes sense...

Theres 20 years between Micks two stints, his tactically adoptability was to try Coleman and Doherty for 45 minutes and give up.

"Kenny not tactically adoptable" - your just trolling now. So playing mutliply different formations/systems and styles is not tactially adoptable? Im guessing by this you mean he should just hoof it as a tactic as i really dont understand where you are coming from.

What you dont understand is what Kenny is trying to do does actually suit the players he has. Every young irish player has been brought up in a keep the ball on the ground and keep possession style. What Mick was doing did not suit the players. The stats back that up.

So you dont think a draw to Portugal with a 150m player on the bench and being 5 mins away from beating them away is not having a team play better than the sum of its parts? To disprove your point, Mick had a must win game against Denmark and Georgia and failed.

Explain how Mick adopted Irelands style in his last stint?

Criticizing Kenny is fine, I've been critical of some of his decisions but he has improved, has the team playing well and the majority of fans enjoy watching his philosphy and the players clearly love it. I didnt expect Ireland to even get a playoff spot for the wc but i do expect that as minimum for the Euros.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170738#Comment_118170738

By tactically adaptable I mean that Kenny seems terrified of been seen telling the players to clear the ball when in danger. You say Duffy plays the ball at club level this is a 'White' lie. Because the Brighton defence play ball playing defenders with the destroyers - remember Ben White? Part of the reason they shipped Duffy off to Celtic last year.

Having Duffy trying to pass the ball along the back line. Nearly cost Ireland a few goals the last day. One poster after another wanted him subbed off.

I commented that you could not take off Ireland's best chance of scoring at either end of the pitch. And soon after Duffy scored.

Ireland's strength set pieces - pace and closing down. If Ireland tries to play slow tippy tappy side to side (for the sake of it) it is playing into other teams hands.

Under Kenny to me the players still unnecessarily try to overplay the ball (not as bad as it was though). Against better sides they will be caught out and against same level sides easy to defend against. Which is why I think playing like that lessens Ireland's chances of qualifying for a play off. And winning it.

--

I already said Mick McCarthy in his last stint made his team hard to beat. How many goals did MM II concede?

Edit - Answer 5 goals. Only two teams conceded fewer goals in qualifying Euro 2020 Turkey 3 and Italy 4. Plus Italy won the Euros. Defence is what most great sides are built on.

square ball

The results at the start of Kenny's reign were poor, he was probably overly ambitious on how he wanted us to play. He has made plenty of mistakes but seems to have adapted his approach.

The performances started to improve a long time ago and recently the results have come with it. We have stopped conceding stupid goals and are becoming more prolific in front of goal.

The style of play is more varied, plenty of of passing, possession based play while also not afraid to cross the ball or play over the top to get the best out of our players. It is enjoyable to watch an Ireland international game for the first time in over 10 years as we play decent football.

We are well set up, well drilled, becoming hard to break down and starting to perform well as a team while individual performances are improving.

I don't see a viable alternative to him that will make us better to watch or guarantee better results. We had been getting worse year on year for over a decade this year is the first time you'd look forward to next year as an Ireland fan. I'm not sure what more Stephen Kenny can do to show he deserves another contract.

ceegee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170798#Comment_118170798

Mccarthys team conceded 7 in 10 games. At present, we've conceded 6 in the last 10 games under Kenny. (18 scored under Kenny and 13 under McCarthy in those games)

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170798#Comment_118170798

Again nobody is saying its the complete package. Nobody is saying there's no room for improvement. For as many times as I've thought we could have conceded from playing around with it at the back we've had as many breakout moments from the same type of play.

There's room to improve which is actually the exciting part for me because we're already playing a much better brand of football then we have in a long time and scoring a lot of goals.

You speak of hysteria and one eyed SK cheerleaders but the most hysterical one eyed comments I'm seeing are you calling for a 3rd stint for MM. Its the most irrational thing I've read on this tread in a while, its worse than the Ole obsessed lad.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170798#Comment_118170798

And where is Duffy playing his club football this year? Your right do a random lad on an internet forum knows more than his Club and internation manager...

Oh so because some posters on boards have a rant about 1 or 2 miss placed passes we should throw the baby out with the bath water?? I now believe the Ireland team should be picked via a poll on boards....

When were ireland caught out against Portugal and serbia playing tippy tappy football? The penalty in Portugal was bazunus fault but hes young and he will make mistakes.

Kenny and largely down to Athony Barry we are an even bigger threat from set pieces. If you ever watched his Dundalk team they scored a lot of set piece goals.

MM part 2 - in 8 games, scored 7 conceeded 5. Kenny scored 11 and conceeded 8. You seem to think going back to defensive football will help ireland win games?

The players have also hoofed the ball when in danger, maybe they have a definition of what danger is to you??

Ok you reference winning a playoff game. Ireland missed out on a Euros playoff because Hourihane could not finish from 2 yards. Ireland played well that day and should have expect for poor finishing, hardly Kennys fault?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170914#Comment_118170914

Jayus I am not as bad as that Ole poster what OGS has to do with Kenny I don't know.

Calling for a MM third stint is not that mad IMO. MM has what SK lacks pragmatism. SK has cleared the weeds now and has left a squad for more experienced/better calibre manager to work with. It does not have to MM but any pragmatic type manager who is not wedded to a 'philosophy'. Because if the players are not there to play it only ends up a notional type thing.

All this 'brand of football' stuff annoys me. I don't care what style of football that is played as long as it is effective/keeps Ireland competitive and with a better chance of qualifying for tournaments.

Look what changed the game the last day a break in play dead ball - headed goal. The pressure was lifted. That is Ireland's strength anyone who says otherwise is codding themselves. The other goals only followed because there was a release of pressure. The bread and butter type play is what Ireland has to resort to when under pressure. That is just the nature of the squad. And it should be tailored accordingly IMO.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170957#Comment_118170957

I made my point on the Brighton issue re-Duffy they have ball playing defenders mixed with him - Ireland do not have ball playing defenders. No it is not Kenny's fault but the 'notions' Kenny has mean it is less likely Ireland will qualify for a tournament or play off IMO.

You have to remember it was not Kenny's fault that he got to a play off in the first place, he was handed the chance and landed the job,

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170994#Comment_118170994

So our stongest asset is not good enough all of a sudden?

Duffy plays in the middle of a three therefore generally gets on the ball the most. So Dara O'Shea, Coleman, Collins, Duffy, Egan, Omobamidele cant play football??? Real pity then that 4 of the 6 i named are playing im the premier league. Need to get them to a league where they can hoof it constantly!

So are you saying we shluld have brought back MON for the play off then?

So by Kenny trying to play in a similar style to what all the players are use to at their clubs wont work and he should do the exact opposite and it will? You sure do make alot of sense....

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170961#Comment_118170961

Can you define pragmatism?? Or more so what you think it is?

Multiple people have already explained to you that Kenny is not wedded to his philosphy and has changed. You fail to see this.

What changed the game was Kenny bringjng on Knight and Knight winning the free kick. Duffy then did what he normally does from set pieces. If Mick was in charge last night, if they did go 1 up there is little chance they would have gone on to score 3.

I think the majority of fans disagree with you regarding style, hence why defensive managers who had some success were eventually ran out of town.

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168906#Comment_118168906

Last time I checked it was the score at the end of the match that counts, so why is it relevant that we were 1-0 down before we won 4-1?! Or are we counting the Portugal away game as a win because we were 1-0 up with a couple of minutes left?

you should chill a bit, all the anger towards SK is not healthy.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169182#Comment_118169182

Not a chance Giles could catch Hendrick. He’s over 80 for Crissakes 😀

Seriously though, what the fitness argument doesn’t take into account is that if Giles (or Best, or Charlton etc) were playing today they’d be doing the same training and have the same diet as current players, so they’d be just as fit.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170260#Comment_118170260

Ah, but context is for when we win, not for when we lose or draw. Once you understand that you’ll be much happier.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170961#Comment_118170961

Ok dead ball made the breakthrough.

Tell me how we had so many dead balls in that game. What type of play created all those chances ?

abff

Why is there even a debate about this? Kenny has done more than enough at his stage to merit an extension to his contract.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171761#Comment_118171761

Because some people screamed and cried so loud before a ball was even kicked that they are now too entrenched to change their minds

It's basically the Trump thread and the Brexit threads in soccer form

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171786#Comment_118171786

More rubbish I never once called for Kenny to be sacked in all my comments on this thread. I have just said -

1) The FAI should adopt a 'wait and see' approach as better options may emerge - if none do fine keep him on.

2) Some of pro media hysteria over Kenny has been OTT (Lisa Fallon - hearts and minds etc)

3) When Kenny was going badly with no wins I actually said stick with him because it was at such a low ebb no one would want the job (but now surely there is greater interest from other potential options at the end of his current contract- many of which would be better calibre than Kenny IMO if they take the low amount offered relative to other international jobs - let them build on the platform Kenny has left.)

4) Any criticism of Kenny on this thread is viewed as 'Kenny Out' by some. There seems to be no middle ground.

5) Kenny wedded to a philosophy when it does not suit the players he has is worrying IMO and if he is to continue he should be more flexible in his style of play. Trying to keep the ball with technically limited players is not a good idea.

--

Look through my comments on thread and if you find one where I said 'Kenny out' or Kenny should be sacked I will give a tenner to a charity of your choice.

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171761#Comment_118171761

I can't understand why it doesn't even warrant a debate?

Some posters have subsequently stated that those who didn't want him are entrenched but the above is entrenchment the other way.

Reasons it could be debated? Worst campaign in living memory? First time being out of the running after two games? Regressive performance against the lesser seeds? Same errors being made when playing from the back?

I admit, ago, I'm not convinced but he is going to get it because some handier consecutive fixtures have given us the chance to put a run together, there is no obvious alternative, some decent prospects have been blooded and the players seem to have bought in.

The next campaign will tell all. Some were happy to sacrifice this campaign on the basis a change in style would take time to take effect.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171761#Comment_118171761

I would say that he's done just enough to get his contract, but I agree that further speculation at this juncture is pointless.

Let's see how we get on in the Nations League next year. If we're relegated, Kenny is going to be right back in trouble again.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172284#Comment_118172284

'Just enough' is my point you can't honestly say he 'definitely' deserves a new contract. Three lads two former Ireland greats on the pitch and one youth international manager great - are all in the 'wait and see' camp on Kenny. Cool the jets and calm down type thing.

Liam Brady (how many other Irish internationals have played and succeeded in Italy?) - 72 caps 9 goals

https://twitter.com/i/status/1459966453076082695

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/other/watch-liam-brady-demands-fai-make-radical-move-over-e2-80-98disappointing-e2-80-99-kenny/ar-AAQHqSP

https://twitter.com/i/status/1460017964535664647

Richard Dunne (of the no5 in marker fame) - 80 caps 8 goals

Brian Kerr - (most successful Irish youth manager ever and one of the best win rates as senior manager) - 55% from 33 games.

http://www.soccer-ireland.com/irish-soccer-managers/records.htm

--

I think the three lads are correct in their opinion. And surely given their stature in the Irish game their opinions must mean something?

noodler

Dunne does put it well...if losing to Lux doesn't get you sacked then beating them shouldn't guarantee you a new contract.

The NL is an important enough point. They've become more important than friendlies and there will be a genuine interest in seeing how we get on there before the qualifiers start.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170029#Comment_118170029

Because he has the worst record of any Irish manager since the formation of the FAI would probably be the main reason.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170333#Comment_118170333

In Micks last stint he had a team in transition, and was told his only goal was to qualify for Dublin 2020. He had a lot of the old guard, and the majority of the young players coming through now were too young to throw into a qualification group where results had to be ground out. As the poster above said, Mick was pragmatic. I think if it had been France 2020 and no games in Dublin, Mick would have had no issue blooding the younger players, like he did excellently when he took over from Big Jack.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172549#Comment_118172549

You think the fella whose only competitive wins in his last stint were against the absolute powerhouses of Georgia and Gibraltar and who got ran out out the door in Cyprus and Cardiff with atrocious results, is in fact the manager of the future for Ireland. Sorry but I just can't take you seriously on this.