Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663102#Comment_119663102

I have to laugh that this debate has again turned into a style of football debate, and in this debate there only seems to be two - 'attractive football' v 'hoofball' in the minds of many. I think that is a bit myopic.

For a start there is no point in constantly passing a ball short for the sake of it, and being no threat to the opposition. Likewise, I think hoofing it for the sake of it without a purpose, it is pointless.

Football can be direct and successful, not hoofing it for the sake of it. With Ireland's pace they could play a direct counter attacking style. Low level of possession, similar to how Leicester played, when they had success.

The good managers consistently make the players play with purpose, regardless of style of play. Not only do they do that. They use a style that gets the BEST out of their players available, not only beating teams they should, but overachieving against teams they are not supposed to beat.

Plus the players should show some football intelligence knowing when to vary their play, don't be predictable all the time.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663095#Comment_119663095

And when do Ireland need to deploy this. Who could Kenny have brought on and when in any of our games to give us this pragmatic approach.

We went long a lot yesterday by the way. I even pointed it out yesterday (when we were winning so you probably missed it) that we were putting a lot of long ball out to Obafemi who was doing a great job trapping it.

Any manager who is any good knows that in the 2020s keeping possession is pragmatic. There is a reason everyone plays out from the back now.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663185#Comment_119663185

I think direct style is what we used under Trap, maccarthy and o'Neill but that was not very attractive to watch, if successful.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663174#Comment_119663174

Only one record counts and that's qualification.

Our entire history is:

Charlton 3/6

MON 1/2

McCarthy 1/3

Trap 1/3

If he gets us to a tournament he instantly becomes our joint 3rd most successful manager. If he doesn't I'm sure he will be gone soon.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662502#Comment_119662502

Said it in the summer that Chelsea should have moved to bring him in when he was going for cheap when they needed a couple of CBs.

gormdubhgorm

I just saw this now Damien Delaney basically saying Kenny is on a handy number. If the constant mantra is ‘results don’t matter’. Meaning no pressure or accountability.

Which Delaney said is a major part why he himself chose studio work over management. As most management jobs have pressure or accountability.

https://youtu.be/r3BG_N0Y33k

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662809#Comment_119662809

LOI clubs are private entities. Are they any different to Celtic or Liverpool?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663359#Comment_119663359

No, they're not, but Liverpool and Celtic are providing players for their respective national teams. How many League of Ireland clubs are doing the same? How is that working out for us?

This notion of shipping our best players off to be developed in England is coming back to bite us in the arse now. That's why supporting the League and supporting grassroots football is more important than it ever was because we can't rely on the global Premier League to develop our best talents for us anymore.

Ramasun

I don't see why the LOI is a sacred cow.

If the clubs were owned by the FAI I could understand why there could be a link to the Irish National Team.

Honestly I find it alienates me a bit.

ebbsy

Better to let Kenny get on with it, he inherited a corpse.

MON - his football style was unwatchable.

D. Delaney - I had no idea who he was until recently.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663610#Comment_119663610

Its not a sacred cow. That's just something that the anti Kenny crowd use to beat his supporters with.

You never see it brought up here until they all pile on when we lose.

It's at underage the FAI need to put more into LOI teams as its well known that scouting of underage talent is crap in Ireland. People need to be identified early and put in a national development program. If you want a local example of how it works look at the difference between when Limerick hurling just picked the best lads from the senior championship to when the academy set up started scouting every team in the county big or small at underage.

The only time Ireland ever had a decent nationwide scouting system was unsurprisingly under the very successful Kerr management team.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663653#Comment_119663653

MON - 'his style of football was unwatchable'. That is a misnomer, the problem was the players were unable to play in the style MON wanted. They did initially.

But overtime the players became fearful and blindly lamped it. MON played under Clough, MON was a 'footballer' himself. MON's style was very effective when the players implemented it properly - Euro's 2016 etc.

With his style he got players to overachieve, Leicester played top flight English football. And won a league cup when really they should have been relegation candidates. Not forgetting how Martin O'Neill managed Celtic to a UEFA Final.

There seems to be a lot of short memories commenting on MON etc. I believe the players were largely to blame on how things ended for Ireland.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663710#Comment_119663710

I don't think the players were to blame and neither was MON. The players were just not good enough and there had been a very clear and obvious decline in the talent pool. Just look at the team from 2002 to 2012 and look at how many were Premier League starters or even in the league at all.

We were clearly on the road to fked but many wouldn't listen and the people in charge were still sucking off the titts of Delaney instead of doing anything productive.

The_Kew_Tour

Just on way home from game.

Overall I thought we got what we deserved.

Egan, Collins Doherty and Obafemi the standouts. Molumby and Cullen solid but latter in particular lacks that physical presence and it showed. Scotland brought a greater intensity and it was the difference.

Scotland fans went mental at final whistle. Honestly it was like they won world cup. Irish section were getting few lovely gestures during game.

Oh and on side note Glasgow is now more expensive than Dublin.

secman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662405#Comment_119662405

Good God. Dinosaur 🦕 🦖 football

Zico !

Parrot was dreadful and should of been hooked before obafemi shocking from kenny-time to realise parrott is poor and not up to it

Doherty was dreadful

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663880#Comment_119663880

Tell us what you really think. And add a bit of punctuation! 'Parrot' wasn't dreadful, don't think 'Parrott' is poor either.

secman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663610#Comment_119663610

That's the problem right there, it should be a sacred cow but Delaney referred to it as the problem child.....

Gusser09

It'll do more harm than good to get rid of Kenny now. We might as well get behind the guy for the euro qualifiers. Ive no doubt though we'll hear the same excuses if we lose against teams we should be beating. There are key issues Kenny is getting wrong during games. McClean and Doherty dont have the legs for 70 mins let alone 90 mins. Manning should be in the squad for a start. Parrot should have been whipped off not obafemi. It was obvious the scots struggled when we countered. Knight isnt at the required level. League 1 is showing. Im not sure what the solution is there. Do we go back to hendricks? Does Browne start? Its clear if we are relying on knight we are in trouble. Kenny and his setup need to see these things and make changes in real time.

For those who dont want to see a more direct approach where are players going to come from to play effective short passing games that get results? We can do both btw. I have no doubt. But at times we need to put on a big man and go long.

I said about Nathan Collins last year. United should have bought him. Hes better than maguire already.

On Evan Ferguson i wouldnt be fast tracking him anywhere he has a serious lack of pace and i cant see him being consistently succesful at the highest level due to that. We have enough striking options available. Id like to see him go with ogbene and Obafemi next time out. Pace pace and more pace. Play the ball directly into them or the channels. Cut out the 72 needless passes.

Kenny seems like a nice fella. Id love for him to get us to a Euros but i dont think he is up to it based on everything i have seen so far.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663821#Comment_119663821

No chance him working here once anyway he finds out the price of a pint of wine in Dublin.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663890#Comment_119663890

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/the-hidden-side-of-sam-allardyce-7583949.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/how-sam-allardyce-has-revived-sunderland-a6760956.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Allardyce#Managerial_style

'Allardyce is a keen proponent of sports science and using technology and innovative techniques in coaching his teams, such as computerised performance analysis and yoga. Martin Hardy of The Independent described him as "one of the pioneers of sports science in English football". Former players and pundits have cited his preparation as his main strength, which allows his teams to have better organisation and defensive stability. Former Bolton player Kevin Davies also highlighted Allardyce's man-management skills as a strength.'

'Allardyce has a reputation for using long ball tactics, though he has said that this perception is "totally and utterly wrong". Former Newcastle player Lee Clark defended Allardyce from criticism of his tactics and said that Allardyce was right to work hard on set-plays and on the organisation of his team. His talent for getting the best out of modest squads also gave him a reputation as a "survival specialist" who could steer a struggling Premier League club out of the relegation zone'

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11685/8653564/sam-allardyce-claims-his-reputation-for-being-a-long-ball-merchant-is-utterly-wrong

'Allardyce wrote in his autobiography that "when they hit a 50-yard ball it was a cultural pass; when we did it, it was a hopeful hoof".'

'In 2021, Allardyce was described by Pep Guardiola as a genius for his ability to save clubs from relegation.'

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55801431

And of course we cannot forget that Big Sam has had LOI experience with Limerick as player manager. So he knows the culture.....

Plus he was good enough to be named England manager 6 years ago, and left with a 100% record.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663911#Comment_119663911

Cullen is suspended so likely Hendrick replaces him with the rest staying the same.

Syferus

Quick question question - going on Tuesday night to meet up with an old friend and I was wondering what exactly the current situation with alcohol at soccer internationals in the lower and upper stands is at the Aviva?

I've only been to either rugby internationals or soccer matches in the premium level at the Aviva and in both cases you can happily bring your drinks to your seat. Lots of articles within the last year about changing the rules regarding alcohol at soccer matches but I found nothing concrete.

Thanks

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663974#Comment_119663974

Well he is used to working with lesser players and making them hard to beat. At the moment can you honestly say Ireland are hard to beat consistently? Your Everton stats are based on a weak Everton in arguably the most competitive league in the world.

You left out the crucial part -

'Everton were lying in thirteenth place in the Premier League table upon his arrival, following a poor start to the 2017–18 season under previous manager Ronald Koeman. His first game in charge came two days later, when his side defeated Huddersfield Town in a 2–0 victory.

 He guided the "Toffees" to a seven-game unbeaten run at the start of his tenure, a spell which included five clean sheets. Having steadied the defence, he stated that his next task was to bring in a consistent goalscorer. Everton ended the season in eighth-position'

-

Can Irish football fans seriously afford to be snobbish about 'style of play' like the Everton fans? It is delusional IMO.

I think there are a generation of young Irish fans who think 'tippy tappy' for the sake of it, brings results. If the players are not there to play possession based football that is all it becomes - easy to defend against.

Reality check is needed, a manager is supposed to play to a teams strengths.

Thankfully, Kenny belatedly changed that ideology 'philosophy' guff he started with, at least. He should be playing direct and using Ogbene's and Obamfemi's pace on the counter. Because that is Ireland's only real hope of being a threat from open play consistently.

thebaz

I'd prefer give Kenny a 10 year contract than bring in Big Sam - football has moved on (thankfully) - Might as well suggest Colin

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663821#Comment_119663821

I'd rather we played dinosaur football and played to our ability rather than this forced "progressive" style. A style which will, rather ironically, lead us going extinct as a football nation.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664108#Comment_119664108

we are already at the bottom, the only way is up , and that will happen quicker playing progressive modern football, especially with our young team.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664125#Comment_119664125

I suppose we'll see on Tuesday.

At least Tuesday is a guaranteed result for Irish football: a win or a new manager.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664129#Comment_119664129

And there's evidence there for Kenny?

The results speak for themselves.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664129#Comment_119664129

That was only four years ago he was managing everton and got them 8th! I know you want to try and spin it was the dark ages, but let's call a spade a spade. Big Sam completed phase one with Everton. Get them solid hard to beat, the basis of all good teams. His next phase was to get a striker so he could play more expansively common sense.

How many clean sheets has Kenny had as a matter of interest?

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664149#Comment_119664149

You going on Tuesday?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664108#Comment_119664108

Why is Big Sam's style currently more fitting of our "ability".

What about our current player pool suggests we would do better playing defensive or "pragmatic" football ?

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664168#Comment_119664168

I've yet to meet an Everton fan that enjoyed his reign, yeah he made us hard to beat , but also somehow dragged the club backwards, his signings were awful - if he was so good , why is he still out of work ?

His ship has sailed.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664196#Comment_119664196

Because his name isn't Allerdichi 🤣

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664196#Comment_119664196

That is the naivety of youth/snobbery.

1) Big Sam saved an Everton in disarray which was an expensive unbalance squad (loads of number 10's) heading nowhere. Ironically Lampard has returned Everton to solidity scoring few goals and conceding few.

2) The fact that you think Ireland as team could turn it's nose up on a bit organisation and stability, is laughable.

I am not saying that Big Sam is the answer, but there has been a lot of negative myth making about him. And there is a lot of idealogical innocent about the younger Irish fans in particular. You have to cut your cloth with the material available.

You can't cod me with the idealistic pub talk. Even Kenny has copped himself on a bit and ditched the 'philosophy' and gone a bit more direct.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664255#Comment_119664255

??? Seriously, as I said above why has he been unemployed since he left Everton - if it was the Bolton Big Sam, maybe - times/football have changed /his ship has sailed .... move on, or I'll bring up Warnock

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664292#Comment_119664292

Simple because he said Palace would be his last job.

https://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/big-sam-leaves-palace/70202

Sam Allardyce has left Crystal Palace despite leading them to Premier League survival and says he has "no ambitions" to take another job in football management.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664301#Comment_119664301

good (despite going to Everton and West Brom - a real man of his word

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664192#Comment_119664192

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663094#Comment_119663094

This is the thing. We don’t have a Cascarino or a Niall Quinn to hoof it up to now. “Playing to our strengths” is not lumping into the corners for John Aldridge to chase any more. Plenty of pragmatism on show last night. We didn’t nt try to overplay at the back when it wasn’t on. We also did plenty of counter attacking using Obafemi and Ogbene pace. Was this not “pragmatic” and “playing to our strengths” ? I honestly think people throwing out these phrases are just repeating them like empty slogans and have no clue what this means. It’s just code for lump it up to the big man. That won’t work for us now with these players. I’ve never seen Ireland with strikers with the pace of Obafemi and Ogbene, These are our strengths now.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664308#Comment_119664308

I think a manager with organisational ability used to working with lesser players would be ideal, after Kenny's tenure is up. That is what this Ireland team needs a bit of steel.

Or as Robbie Keane once put it:

The next Irish manager needs to have - 'needs to have balls, take no sh*t'

https://www.the42.ie/robbie-keane-manager-balls-1129393-Oct2013/

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664292#Comment_119664292

In fairness to him he got absolutely shafted by the English FA.

Funny enough it worked out for them because Sam would still have them barely qualifying and barely making it beyond group stages.

I actually think Kenny and Southgate could go down on history with very similar reputations. Both brought on exciting likable young players when it was badly needed, both brought energy back to the fan base but both in my opinion will be overshadowed by the next man who will take the team to the next level.

Agent Coulson

Listening to the lads on Off the Ball they are happy for Ireland and Kenny to continue to play like this because they find it exciting and they don’t want the team to play defensively and get points on the table because it’s not fun to watch.

Sure let’s get relegated and see how we get on then.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664336#Comment_119664336

Or they know enough about football to know hoofball would get us relegated anyway because it's not 1990 anymore.

sterz

Some people here clearly on the wind up. It's 2022 and Allardyce's name is still being bandied about. Incredible.

secman

Judging by the cv and plaudits given above surely we would be way down at the end of the queue of applicants for BIg Sam..... oh wait there's no queue 🤣😂

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664336#Comment_119664336

Play defensively? And invite more of the deep defending situations we conceded both of our goals from yesterday?

id rather keep doing what we’re doing with a more balanced game. At the end of the day, regardless how we create our chances - from nice football, or hoofs - we need to take them. Parrott and Ogbene missed great chances created by pressing and counter attacking on the ground… I’m not sure why hoofing it and creating fewer, and lower quality, chances would see us scoring more goals, or how inviting the opposition to have more of the ball in and around our box would see us conceding less.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664434#Comment_119664434

It doesn't have to be Allardyce, but someone coming in with experience of steading the ship through good organisation, before pushing on to take a team from relegation is a good candidate generally for the Ireland job.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664336#Comment_119664336

They've given Kenny such an easy ride from day one, it's bizarre. His leadership ability is a complete blind spot for them

No other manager was afforded such kid glove treatment by the media that I can recall. TO'D interviews are as intense as being savaged by a kitten.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664517#Comment_119664517

His leadership ability? Is the very clear commitment of his players not the most important sign of his leadership with those that actually matter?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664457#Comment_119664457

I think I know what the problem is given the fact many Irish soccer supporters - main source of soccer is a big six English team. In their mind they think Ireland are as good when they see them in the AVIVA. And any unknown national team that does not have a lot of EPL players, is viewed as micky mouse.

It is pure delusional, I have already explained why Allardyce is not in a football job now, he is not pushed. His jobs after Palace were only done as short term favours.

Any organisational based manager would do better than Kenny has had thus far, in my opinion.

The delusional idealism from a cohort of Irish fans needs to stop, it is the equivalent of the really fat bird who thinks she is gorgeous and says 'haters gonna hate'. Of course some people still insist on calling Ireland 'curvy'.