Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

johnnyryan89

A 22 man squad has been named for a four day training camp next week in Bristol for lads whose season has already ended. Though a few LOI players have been included.

From the FAI press release:

"Jeff Hendrick and Alan Browne will miss the four-day training camp as they recover from injury but are expected to be in contention for the Greece and Gibraltar matches in June.

Chiedozie Ogbene will report for the camp to continue his assessment and rehabilitation from a hamstring injury whilst Andrew Omobamidele, Callum Robinson and Seamus Coleman have all been ruled out of the upcoming qualifiers through injury.

Middlesbrough defender Darragh Lenihan and Peterborough United midfielder Jack Taylor will not be involved with the training camp due to their club's participation in the EFL play-offs.

All Premier League players remain in action for their clubs as well as Mikey Johnston at Vitoria de Guimaraes, Jamie McGrath at Dundee United and Matt Doherty at Atlético Madrid who continue their domestic seasons."

Brock Turnpike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611641#Comment_120611641

Interesting squad, and clarifies those who are on the fringes of the full squad when everyone is fit.

~Rebel~

Bit surprised Sammie Szmodics isn't there. We could do with another creative number 10 type around the place.

At least Manning is finally included in something!

ceegee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610121#Comment_120610121

Missed out on the initial allocation (They received 2500 applications for 1500 tickets), hopefully the FAI will be able to negotiate extra tickets from the Greek FA (Shouldn't be an issue as they don't usually sell out)

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612751#Comment_120612751

Currently in Portugal on a golfing holiday. Could have booked the holiday beforehand depending on when Kenny spoke to the lads about call ups, or just fancied a holiday over an end of season training session. Especially if he didn't fancy his chances of making the squad for the games in June.

https://twitter.com/Cumoski/status/1659213523095027718

Just wasn't fancied it seems.

budgemook

Cheers, where did you hear about it? There used to be a thread on here but it doesn't seem to be active anymore.

glenjamin

Ferguson on the scoresheet for Brighton against Bazunu-less Southampton.

Edit: two for Ferguson now

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120623827#Comment_120623827

Two now, great chance for a hatrick

kowloonkev

5 losses in a row for Southampton and at least two goalkeeping errors since the dropping of Bazunu.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626278#Comment_120626278

Its almost like he was not the problem?

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626574#Comment_120626574

Well it’s more like he’s no worst than the alternative. The xG of shots faced by bazunu being way lower than the amount of G he actually conceded would suggest he was one of the problems Southampton had.

Azatadine

He definitely had a poor season no matter how you look at it. He wasn't the only problem at Southampton but he conceded a lot of disappointing goals.

Electric Nitwit

This is pretty cool...

The Ireland Women's National Team will play at the Aviva Stadium for the first time on Saturday, September 23.

Following talks between the Football Association of Ireland, the Irish Football Association and UEFA, the opening game of the 2023-24 UEFA Women's Nations League against Northern Ireland will kick off at 13:00.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626599#Comment_120626599

How do they measure that?

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629993#Comment_120629993

An xG model uses historical information from thousands of shots with similar characteristics to estimate the likelihood of a goal on a scale between 0 and 1.

For example, a shot with an xG value of 0.2 is one that we would generally expect to be converted twice in every 10 attempts.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630012#Comment_120630012

Does it account for defenders in line of sight? For attackers does it account for speed/height of a cross or just the position where the striker is shooting from like a 2D map?

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630043#Comment_120630043

I don’t know.

sekond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628383#Comment_120628383

It's great news. It's a good time/day for people to travel too, so hopefully there will be a decent turn out. I got a couple of season tickets for the WNT, so will be interesting to see how they assign the seats in the Aviva.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630159#Comment_120630159

Well my guess would be that it doesn't and probably couldn't, making it a very flawed statistic on which to judge an individual player's performance.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630276#Comment_120630276

It’s far superior to shots on goal or possession % as a metric which is the alternative metric being used since the 1980s and 90s respectively. People are normally resistant to new thinking but xG is here to stay as if you follow it, you notice it is normally an accurate reflection of the flow of a game. Far more useful than possession percentages.

bazunu conceded 16 goals more than he should have which is far too great a number to be down to a statistical deviation. He’s had a poor season.

another good statistic to evaluate bazunu would be opposition touches in the box. If Southampton allowed opposition teams more touches in the box it makes Bazunu’s job harder.

FBref is a website that is a treasure trove of free stats. In fairness to bazunu he is above average in certain metrics such as crosses stopped and attacks launched. But his G conceded to xG is disastrous.

kowloonkev

It's a fun stat and probably has its merits on evaluating a team moreso than individual players.

But like I said it is very flawed. At least possession and shots are factual, xg is not. No two chances (apart from penalties) or saves are ever the same.

I think for xg they use a birdseye view of the pitch, put little counters where the player is in relation to the goal and decide whether he should score based on whether the previous counters scored from the same spot. They don't account for the many variables, so it's pretty meaningless, and is just used to rank a bunch of players who could more easily be ranked by actually watching them.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630468#Comment_120630468

It’s far from meaningless but agree to disagree

ceegee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630468#Comment_120630468

It's amazing how confidently wrong people can be. xG takes a lot more variables into account than just the shot location (including pretty much every variable you've stated it doesnt). Opta's xG model seems to be the most widely used and takes 35 variables into account when calculating xG

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630614#Comment_120630614

'pretty much' means not all of them, correct?

If it takes even 35 variables into account, then they would never be able to predict the chances of a goal since they'll never come across the same chance twice. Every shot on goal that has ever been taken is unique, so the probability of scoring will be unique. It is not factual. It is very flawed no matter how much you enjoy it.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630217#Comment_120630217

Reckon they'll close off the top tier and try pack out the bottom and premium seats like the recent Leinster and Munster game at the Aviva. Would give them a capacity of 29K to try and fill.

Should definitely try get tickets on sale before the WC because those that really want to go will buy and hope that performances at the WC sell a few more tickets.

glenjamin

xG is a terrific tool in measuring how close a match is, the performance of a striker or keeper in my opinion. It is certainly not "very flawed".

Regardless, it doesn't take away from the face Bazunu had a poor season as much as it pains me to admit.

adaminho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631785#Comment_120631785

It's a weird one, xg is great for teams but it's less so for individuals! For example Bazunu is rated on the entire Southampton team so it's hard to judge his season on them giving up more chances. It's like GK"s in relegated teams having great stats against someone like Ederson because they face more shots!

Azatadine

Stats or no stats, I know what I saw with my eyes and Bazunu conceded a lot of poor goals. He's still young so the future is bright for him but some of the goals were poor irrespective of the defence in front of him.

johnnyryan89

https://twitter.com/IrelandFootball/status/1661054389740617734

A must win game for them to make it out of the group stages.

~Rebel~

Missed the start - but we're 1-0 up already, so that's nice!

<edit> Oh no - 1-1 now, own goal off Grante.

~Rebel~

2-1 to Ireland, Melia did well with the finish on the back post from a corner.

Razi looks a tidy player in the AMC spot too, quite composed, and Orazi has a nice bit of pace and trickery off the left.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632693#Comment_120632693

It being Kelleher he'll likely get injured before Kenny finally makes him the no.1 keeper. Only for injuries he'd already be our no.1

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632693#Comment_120632693

Right time for him to go alright. Maybe one season too late, but not too big a deal given how late he got into goalkeeping.

There's two approaches to a move - go for the highest move he can right now and solidify a decent contract wage. Or go on loan a step lower for a year and back himself to show the kinds of performances that earn him an overall bigger and better permanent move a year later. I kinda hope he goes with the latter option.

~Rebel~

Another from Melia - 3-1! Well worked, and good strikers instincts to be there for the pull back too.

All three of Melia, Razi and Orazi did brilliant there. Great through ball from Razi, lovely cutback from Orazi, and Melia just made bloody sure he was the one to get to it first.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632738#Comment_120632738

Both Melia and Orazi are still underage for next seasons U17s too.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631877#Comment_120631877

The other issue is xg doesn't account for the person shooting/saving which is one of the "benefits" as it supposedly removes bias.

But it then ignores the glaring fact that the individual player matters.

Presenting identical chances to Erling Haaland and Tony Hibbert will in reality have vastly different outcomes based on their own ability.

Thus it should have an effect on the expected save as saving a shanked Hibbert effort would be considerably easier than a controlled Haaland shot. And of course depending on if the keeper is Alisson or Brian Maher that also would change their likelihood of making any save to either shot.

Its an ok reflection for how an individual match has played out. But when it comes to comparing the individual players between teams its much less reliable.

Shot vs. Save should function in a symbiotic manner to get the most accurate result between players. Both shooter and saver individual talents play a considerable role in outcome. XG misses that.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632766#Comment_120632766

As a result of this, it's a better metric over a season, as it smooths things out to the general 'premier league level striker', when looking at a keeper's performance. In Bazunu's case, it tells us that across the broad season, he was conceding a fair number of goals he shouldn't have. Which was fairly clear just watching the matches or highlights of their games. Not too many clangers, but a lot of 'hmmm, should've probably done better there' ones.

It's also how you interpret the data based on the context of other data... like, in some of Liverpool's better seasons they were hugely outperforming their xG - so one could look at that in isolation as them simply being very lucky and that it wasn't sustainable. Or, with the addition of more data around the players involved, you could see that they didn't need to create easy chances because the players were of a calibre high enough to consistently take harder chances - what is counted as a harder chance for someone else, was an easier chance for Mane or Salah. And since harder chances are easier to create, the player quality then skews in Liverpool's favour.

With this idea of looking at the context, we can kind of solidify Bazunu's performance by adding in some of the more basic numbers - like that he has the lowest save percentage of any starting keeper across Europe's top 5 leagues. He's ranked 114th out of 114 keepers to have played 12 or more games, with a 54.2% save percentage. When you add his low save percentage to his xG, it's damning enough.

pjohnson

Yep Bazunu has had a poor season definitely but using xG as the main source of his woes is very flawed view point and usage of the statistic.

XG is a very badly misused stat.

~Rebel~

4-2 now with Hungary getting one back... should still be safe enough here, but with nearly 20 minutes left it's that little bit more nervy.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632883#Comment_120632883

The best performing goalkeeper in the PL in terms of xG vs G conceded happens to be the recognized best goalkeeper in the division ; allison

getting a lot right for a flawed statistic

glenjamin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632693#Comment_120632693

I thought Klopp had previously said something along the lines of "he's free to go".

It'll be interesting to see where Kelleher ends up this summer. I do think he'll leave and I'm sure he won't be short of offers. Brentford would be a fantastic move for him and realistically his best chance of getting a Premier League move. If that fails to materialise, would he and Liverpool be willing to lower their demands and he makes a move to a Championship club where he'll be guaranteed first team football, or would he be interested in a move abroad?

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633086#Comment_120633086

Brentford are supposedly signing Mark Flekken from Freiburg as their replacement for Raya. Think Liverpool will try use him in a player plus cash deal for McAllister.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633086#Comment_120633086

Brentford reportedly looking elsewhere. Some German lad. Brighton looking at him according to the athletic. Don’t personally think it’s that a big deal if he drops to the championship

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632907#Comment_120632907

Pats 4 Hungary 2 this evening😀. Very good performance from the lads. Akechukwu and Orazi were particularly impressive I thought, and of course the two Pats lads took their chances very well. Great to see a team of home based lads doing so well. Was looking iffy for them after the first game with Poland.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633075#Comment_120633075

It also says Johnstone and Kepa are top 10 goalkeepers in the PL, while Ederson is one of the the worst ranking 23rd.

If you are happy to trust Johnstone is better than Ederson fire away.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633815#Comment_120633815

In terms of shot stopping which is all this is a measure of johnstone is quite a strong keeper from when I’ve seen him, ederson is all round better obviously. Kepa, despite the occasional stormer hasn’t had a bad season but is generally an inconsistent unreliable keeper I’d agree. It’s also a limited window for johnstone (8 games)

JPup

Just did a quick google search on this topic, so I'm sure there are better sources available, but I thought this was telling:

Compare this: https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/caoimhin-kelleher-player-stats?category=goalkeeping&groupId=1

To this: https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/gavin-bazunu-player-stats?category=goalkeeping&groupId=1

Very small number of games for Kelleher, but his save percentage is between 72% and 90%. Bazunu is 55% for the premier league and then 33% in the two games he played for Ireland.

If Caoimhín get a good move this summer so he's playing regularly next season, he should be able to cement his position as Ireland number 1 fairly quickly.

WesternZulu

I don't think so, he is a lot weaker in every aspect of goalkeeping from what I've seen.

I think people are clouded just because he plays for Liverpool.

johnnyryan89

U17s will play Spain this Saturday in the QFs after they drew 1-1 with Serbia today. Them drawing also means we're ranked second amongst the teams that the finished second.

So if we don't beat Spain and both England and Poland (both teams topped their group) win their QFs we play the loser of Germany vs Switzerland in the play off for the final WC spot.

Feel the only way we'll qualify for the WC will be beating Spain as both Switzerland and Germany have looked good this tournament.

JPup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635561#Comment_120635561

Well he's not weaker in saving shots clearly, which pretty important for a goalkeeper!

Kelleher is very good with the ball at his feet too. Not convinced Bazunu is better in that department either.