Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

ShamNNspace

Imv in management terms, Keane is yesterday's man,he has nothing much to offer today's footballers in terms of motivation or tactics , appointing him would be a retrograde step that would surely end in tears

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725019#Comment_120725019

Well he did get to a Euros with MON - do not remember the celebrations and hugging when qualified Keane in the thick of it? Plus Keane better at the media stuff than Kenny and at least has a presence about him.

I can't think of any other plausible option of any decent coaching level who would want the Ireland job.

Fr Tod Umptious

Before the France game I got laughed at here for suggesting that Ireland would finish 4th in this group.

I can't see where people were getting the idea that we were good enough to beat a team like Greece away.

The Kenny era has been a disaster. All this talk of changing the philosophy etc and this is the kind of rubbish we are offered after three years.

And it doesn't matter how many young guys he gives caps to if the team just keeps spinning it's wheels like this one does.

International soccer is a results game and you need a manager that will get the most out of the resources he's given, not some wannabe soccer crusader from a tuppenny-ha'penny league that was already found out as being out of his dept as soon as he left the island.

ForestFire

As my User name suggests, I have first-hand Nightmares (experience) of some of the possible names for the job....😮

Chris Hughton - No Thanks

Martin O'Neill - No Thanks

Roy Keane - hmmm ...But Probable end in tears as normal

But What about Robbie Keane? .......I've heard it has always been an ambition of his to Manges Ireland and he has supported them since he was a kid (Probably true for once!!🙂)

On a half-serious note at this stage, I would go with Clinton Morrison...At least he'd bring a positive attitude, great team spirit, a bit of fun and maybe some passion.... (Although absolutely no experience or coaching qualifications, but who cares)

So who does that leave...Damien Duff, Lee Carsley...LOI Manager?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725124#Comment_120725124

Exactly it was based more than hope, than reality. Even the OTB cheerleaders admit that now.

When I think back to that Bulgaria and Finland matches at the start etc - not much has changed. Still very passive and easy to play against. Also very easy to score goals against.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725261#Comment_120725261

Kenny was also a pretty big black box of a manager - and these lads are even more-so. At least Kenny had a good few years of club management experience with some decent success at low levels. That's a low bar, but Carsley is nearly 50 and has about 2 months of management experience outside of this 2 year spell with an U21 team (which hasn't been all that impressive given the quality they have). And Murphy has one failed spell as the top man at a small club, and that's all. So of course both would be massive unknowns, to a higher degree than even Kenny was.

That's probably where we are right now though. Between the money, and the project itself, it's most likely we'll need to take a risk, since any known-good options by definition are probably already out of reach.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725176#Comment_120725176

Judging by his comments he has given up the hopes of getting a big club job. But I always got the impression he would jump at the chance of managing Ireland.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725313#Comment_120725313

Why not all three? Roy as Manager - Clinton and Robbie as his backroom staff.

pjohnson

For all the 3 years of talk about Kenny playing exciting positive football thats a joy to watch our best goal chances still tend to come from Center Backs getting on the end of set pieces.

Its just changed from Duffy to Egan/Collins. Real progress.

~Rebel~

The most frustrating part is that every so often we do see flashes of really good play. The fact we can pull off those moments and passages in some games, often against decent teams, makes it even worse when we deliver something as turgid as today.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725261#Comment_120725261

the argument to replace Stephen Kenny with Barry Murphy or lee carsley shouldn’t be that Stephen Kenny (who failed) hasn’t really done much so why not get other lads who haven’t done much.

PTH2009

Neil Lennon ?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725369#Comment_120725369

Its pretty clear now that those moments were just down to the individual players happening to click and be on the same wavelength rather than any actual playbook/drill/plan that they have been training to perfection.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725313#Comment_120725313

How about Tommy Tiernan if you want the team to have a good laugh? 😂 probably a lot of posters here who would prefer him over Kenny.

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725130#Comment_120725130

Nathan Jones?! Why on earth would we try to get him?

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725261#Comment_120725261

Won league titles and cups in LoI playing some great football. Put points on the board against quality opposition (and much bigger clubs) in EL with Dundalk. Lads doing victory laps just because Kenny is a former LoI manager and is now under pressure now are pretty pathetic. If you spend your life sneering at the national league while heading to the pub in your Liverpool/Man U jersey, how do you ever expect anything in Irish football to change/improve?

Sure let’s bring Mick back again, he qualified for the World Cup 22 years ago.

Zico

I was against Kenny from the start because he was just a sop to the LOI fans.

It worked. The more people like me pointed out his deficiencies the more the wagons were circled and most importantly it put bums on seats.

It looks a bit **** now that he has actually built up a bit of experience he'll be thrown under the bus by some.

It's a higher bar to replace him than he had to take the job, and that's a compliment to him.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725466#Comment_120725466

Yes John Delaney, the man who couldn't give two **** about the LOI appointed Kenny to appease the diehard LOI fans. Man didn't give two **** about Irish football and you think he's making appointments to appease fans.

johnnyryan89

Two results that haven't helped towards us getting a possible play tonight were Wales losing 4-2 at home to Armenia and Turkey getting a 95th minute winner. What makes the Turkey result worse is Latvia made it 2-2 in the 94th minute.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725387#Comment_120725387

The man literally came 2nd in a one horse race. Look at how Celtic did (and played) under Rodgers and Postecoglu and then compare to Lennon in the middle.

Zico

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725483#Comment_120725483

He gave a **** about what kept the heat off him.

Played us all like a fiddle.

jeff bingham

Give McClean 10 minutes farewell against Gib and then thanks and goodbye.

Really awful performance when he came on.

Bring on Troy Parrot when you need a goal… another joke of a call.

If we are only going to lob the ball up anyway then just stick Collins up there and stop the bullshit trying to pretend we play ‘sexy’ football when we just resort to hoof ball when it comes down to it.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725519#Comment_120725519

Yes hiring Kenny really kept the heat off him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725546#Comment_120725546

Will likely captain the team as it will be his 100th. If he's not captain he'll probably lead the team out anyway but definitely starts Monday I'd assume.

McFly85

Kenny deserved his chance, and he’s done a lot of good work with the squad and has definitely had his share of bad luck along the way, but it’s clear the next campaign should have someone new at the helm. While I find Ireland generally much more watchable these days, we have been continually slow to start campaigns so no complaints there.

I hope the next appointment is in a similar vein - attempting constructive football without trying to qualify at all costs by reverting to backs to the wall hoofball for the majority of games.

Who that is, I have no idea. We won’t be offering big wages, and it won’t be seen as a desirable job by well known candidates so it may well be an ex player or someone from within the FAI like Crawford.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725395#Comment_120725395

Thats just pure ignorance, the players have openly backed Kenny and praised what he was trying to do and telling them to do.

We need to move into another progressive manager, we cant go backwards again in terms of football style

gormdubhgorm

I was thinking that numerous Irish managers historically went for that solid midfield. Charlton played McGrath there for years as he could drop back and act as another defender.

Trapp famously/infamously had so little confidence in Ireland passing the ball from midfield he brought Paul Green in.

--

Why not start Collins and one of the other defenders in midfield along with knight - let Knight bomb on then?

Cullen and Molumpy clearly not up to it as forward thinking midfielders.

It could give Ireland a much more solid platform in the middle IMO. With more defensive minded fellas minding the house. Forget the passing from midfield stuff there is no midfield player/any player capable of it/or confident enough to go for that penetrating forward pass.

Even that eejit Eamon Dunphy realised how good of a player Glenn Whelan was after he used to slate him. Because he fought won the ball and laid it off simply nothing fancy.

Ireland has forgotten the basics under Kenny IMO. They have been fed too much pie in the sky stuff I think.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725662#Comment_120725662

The players that are picked are always going to back the manager. Do you remember then Captain Robbie Keane on an Irish chat show, saying what a great manager Steve Staunton was?

Robbie - 'Over 100 caps and that is the respect he gets?'

https://youtu.be/MNPTbrzEx5w

Robbie - 'We have full support of Stan'

https://youtu.be/ogja7_7MKcM?t=84

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725662#Comment_120725662

The average IQ amongst pro footballers is probably below the national average but they all had to know a loss last night was curtains for any chance of qualifying and most likely the managers job.

They didn't care. Completely zapped of any urgency. Looked to be playing in mud from kick off.

11 players with no direction but full commitment would have produced a better display. So to me that's proof that SK no longer (if he ever did) inspires or indeed scares them enough to perform.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725668#Comment_120725668

The excuses are just completely bizzarre at this point.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725680#Comment_120725680

What excuse was given? If you just want to talk nonsense and not debate thats fine.

Every journalist who attended training said the squad worked on things, including patterns of play. The players then failed to put that plan into place during the games. The ignorance of people who think players who see each other a few times a year just click and come up with ideas themselves and refuse to give a manager credit.

Kenny has failed to qualify but has brought throw so many players. Someone had to do that. In 10 years time we might be all thanking Kenny for the work he has done in that regard. Or and this is a very real posibility that we are still where we are now in 10 years.

I have preferred watching Kennys team to that of Mick or later years MON and it was refreshing to have a manager not openly saying our players are ****.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725680#Comment_120725680

I don't know if you listened to the OTB crew after the Greece match? Previously they backed Kenny to the hilt.

But after Greece they were caught between accepting that Kenny management tenure has not worked, or at best Kenny has developed players and is just unlucky etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEGCufWbzkI&t=1s

Some realised that they were cheering Kenny on in hope/aspiration because they believed that it would be a seachange in Irish football. Playing football the 'right way' etc.

If former media cheerleaders now see it as not working/or are scrambling for overall postives it does not look good for Kenny.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725691#Comment_120725691

I have viewed Kenny as a sub teacher for a long time now. Just minding the kids until a more qualified person comes in after him.

The blooding the players thing is not that amazing. Steve Staunton blooded players. Joe Lapira and Terry Dixon were two infamous ones that did not work.

Blooding players is just picking young lads that is all, a fella from a local pub could do that.

The real skill is moulding the players into a cohesive unit, getting the most out of the players available. Making them play better than the sum of their parts.

ebbsy

Forget about the result for a second.

Greece are not England. What they had however was structure and a plan. And they stuck to that plan. They are limited but had something to fall back on.

Meanwhile we did not look organised at all. For example Ferguson was not in the game at all. So what to do ? How about getting him in it ? Change something perhaps ?

Teams at our level need to have a plan. That is what I found very telling last night.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725691#Comment_120725691

Unfortunately some people will never admit that there have been any positives during Kenny’s reign.

He was left a team in complete tatters with zero direction that was primarily directed to qualify at any cost to help Delaney hide his complete mismanagement of the organisation.

He overhauled the squad during covid where we had far more cases than other teams, and now we have a young base of players that have competitive international experience that we can work with over the next few campaigns. There’s also a clearer route from the under 21s to the senior team now, previously that had been nonexistent.

It was necessary work that none of our previous recent managers went anywhere near and he deserves credit for that.

And I think most people would recognise that if you’re going to ask a person to overhaul a squad from one of the oldest in Europe and to give young player’s experience, they deserve time to put that into place. I’m glad the FAI weren’t as reactionary as some here after some bad results.

On the whole I would look at Kenny’s time as a positive. I find us more engaging to watch, and I would prefer to watch us try and play rather than endure a campaign of negativity for the hope that we get to a tournament we have no hope competing in - qualification should be earned through improving your team, not thought of as an end in and of itself.

But I’ve said all along that this was the campaign to show the fruits of his efforts, and it’s looking like his ceiling has been hit as we’re seeing the same issues over again. Hopefully the next person can continue his good work and improve results.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725711#Comment_120725711

The average number of caps in the squad last night was 17. A young team is always going to be inconsistant. Kennys job was to get the best out of them and he failed ao he shouldnt get a new contract and its a matter of debate whether you gid rid now or leave him at it for September.

No manager has ever tried to blood that many players in our history and the sad part is most of those inconsistant young players are our best players.

Kenny tenure has been a combination of bad luck and some poor management with a player pool that probably of our lowest quality is 30/40 years.

If Hourihane could have kicked the ball in from 3 yards against Slovakia, they get to a playoff final and god knows what might have happened. Instead he couldnt and things have mainly gone down hill since with some good performances against better teams.

His time is up but We cant go backwards again

Mushy

Was always going to be a tough game, but was absolutely a must not lose and play crap game. But that's what it was. FAI need to at a minimum be identifying successors, it was make or break for Kenny and I dont think anyone can say he deserves longer than the campaign.

Yeah there's been a lot of bad luck, but have to make your own luck too. At least the successor will have a team with a good lot of experience behind it...just no idea who it could be.

irishguitarlad

I think whoever comes in next has to change the style. We need to give a more defense-based game similar to Simeone/Bordalas managed teams or like Morocco in the world cup a try. Then when we have posession quickly break but intelligently, not aimless hoof balls. However, I don't even think that we have the players to do that system either.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725716#Comment_120725716

That's exactly what you need from an international manager of a team like Ireland.

Someone who can get them organized, and become hard to beat.

That was the great strength of Ireland going all the way back to the Charlton era, they were hard to beat.

It's far from the case these days.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725729#Comment_120725729

It is not just the inconsistency you would accept the inconsistency. There is zero structure or plan. When Wales went the youth route under Thosack. Where he openly said they would forgo a few tournaments etc to give the youngsters experience. Euro 2008 qualifiers.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/FOOTBALL%3A%2BToshack%2Baiming%2Bto%2Bkeep%2Btime%2Bon%2Bhis%2Bside%2Bin%2Bqualifiers%3B...-a0141786569

Example Toshack played the youngsters in 2006 v Cyprus - got hammered but kept at it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/toshack-to-blood-youngsters-against-cyprus-1.1189896

They were a structure a tactical plan from what I remember. Toshack was there 6 years 2004 -2010.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3641519/How-Wales-built-golden-generation-John-Toshack-s-youth-legacy-man-blooded-Gareth-Bale-Aaron-Ramsey.html

Toshack had a presence a stature in his football association and country. Kenny neither has the presence or stature in the game to have real authority over the dressingroom, media, tactics etc.

In his first 3 years he gave over 30 debuts for Wales.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/toshacks-33-cap-wonders-2158782

==

As for going backwards what does that mean? More coded 'philosophy' stuff?

When I think backwards and Ireland I now think Kenny to be honest. Backwards and sideways, easy to play against, score against - and very toothless - despite having the best young forward since Robbie Keane.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725691#Comment_120725691

Yeah last night was an enjoyable watch alright.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725770#Comment_120725770

Great contribution to the debate 👍🏻

Last night was as bad as Micks games against Gibraltar.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725756#Comment_120725756

At times i see the structual plan, i can see what they are trying to do. I think the next manager needs to continue to build on a plan to be better on the ball, keeping possession and trying to create chances from open play. We possibly have a generational talent in Fergusson but if we go the Big Sam type route he may as well declare for England now because those styles of play do not suit Fergusson

I think our players are massively over rated and we Irish fans massively overrate the technical quality of the Championship and League 1. Plenty of us here, me included raved about Jason Knight. He was relegated last season to League 1 with a team that was broke and no one, not one team at a higher level put in a bid for him. Thats where we are, what we thought of as one of our better young players, no one in England was preparded to put a bid in for him.

Are you not also slightly contradicting yourself? You want rid of Kenny but then use Wales as an example where they gave a manager 6 years to develop players? Difference with Wales is they were starting from a lower ebb with lower expectations, many Ireland fans expectations are far fetched given what we have invested in football here for the last 30 years

Azatadine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725695#Comment_120725695

John Duggan was the biggest offender in that regard. He was a huge Kenny fan until now.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725827#Comment_120725827

Honestly i wouldnt listen to anything John Duggan says. Has Dan Mc and Johnny Ward or Shane Keegan on most saturdays and the lads are mad to chat LOI and John constantly brings it back to the premier league. He has no interest in Irish football outside of the senior team

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725808#Comment_120725808

I'm sorry now, but for all this 'structural plan' and 'we can't go backwards' stuff, I think you're missing a critical bedrock point: you must make yourself hard to beat. First and foremost. Those dominant Spanish teams were incredibly tough to beat. They defended well, worked their bollocks off and made everything a quagmire in their way, with the rolling on the ground and demonstrating with the ref and all that craic.

International Football is fair; most teams are brittle, can be got at, and will show cracks if you make it tough on them. Ireland will never be Spain, but we have always had honest pros who bond in an Irish shirt. You must leverage that first and employ it consistently in different contexts. Against France, the effort and spirit were abundant, and it was mixed with decent shape and instruction. The concentration wasn't 100%, and we lost because of it. Last night we were lazy, sloppy, switched off and disconnected. None of that is about **** 'keeping the ball on the ground' or 'not going back to Dinosaur football' or whatever else.

The possession and passing, and getting forward intelligently, need to be in the mix, too (the extent to which those things are claimed as absent under O'Neill and Trapp is overstated, how did we score goals ffs?). But first, you need to deny space, defend as a unit and **** FIGHT. There are long gaps between these games, and for most of the squad, these games represent the highlight of their seasons. There should be no reason for a lack of motivation or urgency.

Football is not all about tactics. It's an integral part of the mix, but the manager is also responsible for the culture, mindset, visualisation of the challenge ahead, and the road to victory. Kenny failed spectacularly in those areas last night. Moreover, for all the talk about passing, Collins getting forward looked like our most likely route to scoring.

The 'we have to be better to watch' arguments have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. An Irish team can lose, and it can fail to qualify. That is our reality. But they cannot be soft and easy to beat. That is unforgivable. We must not accept that.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725798#Comment_120725798

Interesting you didnt mention more recent shìt shows like the defeat to Luxemborg.

I guess that was an enjoyable watch aswell.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725836#Comment_120725836

I don't know John Duggan as I dont listen to Newstalk but it's not his job to care about Irish football. Commercial radio is a results driven business and its his job to attract listeners. Saturday afternoon is long associated with English football in this country whether you like it or not so it's not surprising that a Saturday sports show is giving it attention. Ratings matter.

LuckyLloyd

And look, I did mention it last night, but it's fair to amplify: Kenny has achieved an overhaul of the playing pool. It was an inevitable transition, and he delivered it. I think he's beyond criticism there. That aspect of his reign has been objectively successful.

I think he's succeeded in certain games when it comes to overhauling the style. But I think he has lacked consistency and adaptability from one game to the next. We are up and down; we look crisp some days and aimless the others. People will point to the players here, but it comes back down to it not being "unfair" to expect a manager to find ways to put players in good positions consistently. That's the ask; you can't buy players in International Football.

The results are why the media landscape will now substantively change on Kenny. It's hard, but it's not unfair. You must get results. Kenny has consistently failed to get results against teams of a similar International ranking to us. And in the end, if you are getting results, the first two aspects of assessment here wouldn't matter a **** dot. That's the hard and fair reality of Senior International Football.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725905#Comment_120725905

We are far less of threat under Kennyball than we were under previous managers. Collins/Egan has replaced Duffy as our main threat. Ferguson was given zilch to work with outside of the corner he got the assist from. We are dreadfully one-note now.

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725727#Comment_120725727

How was the team in tatters? Honestly?

It had been one goal away, in the last qualifier, from making it to the euros.

Kenny's teams have been out of contention two games in for the last two campaigns.