Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726771#Comment_120726771

Hes was also part of the management team that lost Rice and Grealish...

Also if you think the FAI board had anything to do with appointing Mick/Kenny in 2018 you know very little about Irish football

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726731#Comment_120726731

But Ireland was at least being competitive in most games being hard to beat. The current Ireland is now easy to beat for most teams.

International football is suited to pragmatism. As the manager does not get very long with the players, plus the manager only has a few opportunities to get crucial results.

Pragmatism is especially important for weaker sides and sides without technically gifted midfielders.

Did you smash it

Argentina appointed maradona which meant they crept into the World Cup and conceded 4 goals to Germany in the knock outs so we should definitely appoint Roy keane because of ….that

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726883#Comment_120726883

Grealish was already gone, in my opinion.

However, Rice was absolutely there for us if we wanted him. All he needed was five minutes against Moldova and he was ours.

But, once again, the management stuck with the tried and trusted for a qualifer against Moldova.

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726731#Comment_120726731

The entire team will need to be coached again, probably from the start.

I sincerely doubt a new manager, cognisant of the need for results, will continue in the exact same vain.

I hope we adapt next, despite what you say, it is very clear to me that Irish football has been setback. The results, points and seeding show it.

noodler

Also, it speaks volumes that those persisting with the narrative that things are better now point to issues with the style of games we actually won under previous management.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726240#Comment_120726240

Kerr's legacy is enhanced by Stan coming after him.

It made him look better than he was.

In reality he made a mess of the 2006 WC qualifying.

He had a great team, a great striker in Robbie Keane, and he had Roy Keane.

But he completely blew it.

Getting the 0-0 in Paris early on was a great boost, but drawing 2-2 at home to Israel after being 2-0 up was unforgivable.

And then to go out in the last game at home to Switzerland and draw with a playoff place on the line was as bad.

And what made it all the worse was Kerr's instance that "one piece of brilliance from Henry" (his goal in the 0-1 home defeat to France) was the difference between second and third.

It wasn't, even if Ireland did get a draw at home v France they still needed to beat Switzerland.

It was the 2-2 v Israel in June 2005 that f**ked everything.

Hopefully after the Kenny and Kerr the FAI will have learned that underage mangers with LOI experience is not good enough for the international team.

Did you smash it

that Kerr was unlucky to be sacked as Ireland manager is just one of those false narratives that gets out there and people recycle it without remembering or rewatching the games on YouTube.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726943#Comment_120726943

Not at all.

We had some great wins in the last 10 years, Germany being the highlight, Austria and Wales away were professional performances.

But really, we don’t win many games, and that was true before Kenny took over.

We have gotten a fair few good draws. Kenny’s problem is that it feels like starting over again somewhat in every campaign. He’s had enough time and it should be someone else turn to kick on.

What I do argue is that pragmatism is the best chance of success for Ireland. We’ve had more unsuccessful pragmatic campaigns than successful ones. There is absolutely scope for Ireland to be more organised and effective on the ball.

Also, it’s utter crap to watch.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726647#Comment_120726647

Kerr hasn't managed a team since 2011. 🙄 I dont think he would be a good manager for Ireland.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726727#Comment_120726727

What? You seem manufacturing imaginary excuses at this stage. Moving Collins into the middle of midfield would show the masses that Kenny is trying to solve issues. Ie Ireland's soft underbelly. But yet you discount it and imagine that he would have been slated. Did you see Molumpy and Cullen last night? Did you see the energy Collins had? That shot he took etc ? - powerful runner.

Keane has not managed for 10 years - doesn't know the modern player.? So Keane's time as MON's second in common from 2013-2018 must have passed you by?

Also Keane served as Villa Assistant 2014 - Forrest Assistant 2019, That is a great CV - international experience as a manager and a player, high profile playing career. High profile because of his punditry work.

If you did not have a set or bias against Roy Keane and saw all his managerial stuff listed as an unnamed Joe Bloggs instead you would be in a mad rush to get 'Joe Bliggs' in.

--

As for changing Collins position - I will give you two high profile examples, Ray Kennedy was made into a midfielder by Bob Paisley after they initially signed him as a striker. Paisley was going to do it and contacted Kennedy's old school coach. Paisley was told that Kennedy used to play in midfield at his school. The rest is hisory

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ray-kennedy-switch-bob-paisley-3492343

Eddie Howe changed Joelinton from a misfiring striker to a powerful box to box midfielder

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/joelinton-reinvented-poster-boy-eddie-howe-newcastle-revolution-1471368

And there of course is Paul McGrath played in midfield by Charlton-

From the FAI website -

https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/paul-mcgrath

In 1985, the won the first of his 83 caps though it wasn't until Jack Charlton became manager that McGrath became a key member of the side. Chosen regularly in midfield by Charlton, McGrath helped Ireland to the European Championships in 1988 and World Cup two years later. Four years later, he was also part of the Ireland side that qualified for its second World Cup.

--

Plus this tactic was key to Charton's tactics as McGrath could drop back as an extra defender if required. Collins has the attributes to do the same for Ireland IMO.

--

Mark Lawrenson another who was a defender comfortable on the ball - Giles, Hand and Charlton played him in midfield

FAI website -

https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/mark-lawrenson

Mark Lawrenson was among the most stylish and elegant central defenders in Irish football history - but such was his versatility that almost half of his international caps were won in midfield roles for respective managers John Giles, Eoin Hand and Jack Charlton.

--

But here you are dismissing the idea of Collins playing in midfield as outrageous.

Discounting the main issue of the Irish midfield at the moment it does not have enough energy or defensive bite. Plus Collins has both - plus likes a shot from long distance. It seems like the logical choice for me as Molumpy/Cullen are so lightweight at international level as a combination

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727019#Comment_120727019

Why not? Kerr has his finger on the pulse encyclopaedic knowledge of football, At the very least the FAI should offer him some sort of role coaching/advisory etc.

Would be a nice way to bury the hatchet between himself and the FAi. Won't cost the earth.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726871#Comment_120726871

Jaysus some miracle they got to a tournament and got results in the Finals then. Or got to a subsequent playoff. The players must have been generational talents so…

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726988#Comment_120726988

We **** battered Israel in that game. And were better than them in Tel Aviv but got done for a draw by a late strike from distance. Kerr was unlucky, and fully deserving of another shot.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726844#Comment_120726844

That is very mild stuff altogether.

Maradona's coaching career with Argentina

https://www.90min.com/posts/diego-maradona-manager-looking-back-unforgettable-coaching-career

'Argentina were thumped 6-1 by Bolivia, and defeats to Brazil and Paraguay weren't far behind. Many were questioning whether Maradona's playing career was the only reason he'd been given the job.

Nevertheless, he continued. Maradona called up a whopping 70 different players during qualification for the 2010 World Cup, and his ecstasy towards reaching the tournament was clear during a victory over Peru, when Martin Palermo’s 94th-minute winner was celebrated by Maradona belly-sliding across the rain-sodden turf of El Monumental.

In response to critics, he famously told the journalists that they could stick their comments 'up their a**e', before grabbing his crotch in the direction of one of the cameras.

"They can suck it and carry on sucking it," he said (via Goal). "This is for all Argentines, minus the journalists.

"I want to thank my players for qualifying because they played like men and today they consecrated me as a coach. I also want to dedicate this to the whole of Argentina, to my family too, but there is one group who do not deserve this because they have treated me like rubbish.

"I don't usually read the newspapers or listen to sports programmes but my daughters do and they told me what had been said about me. So, I repeat, to all those that said anything against me, keep eating your words."

Did you smash it

I can tell you right now roy keane won’t be the next manager of Ireland so talk about it if you want but it won’t happen

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727022#Comment_120727022

I dont have a set against Keane in fact i loved him as a player and im a casual United fan.

However, apart from Sunderland he has failed as a manager. Constantly fell out players. Bigging him up as an assistant to a failed manager does not strengthen your argument for him.

Collins in midfield for last night. Kenny would have been shot if he dropped Cullen, he was player of the year in a team that coasted to the championship. Molumby was West Broms best player 2nd half of the season. So to start or move Collins into midfield last night would have been ground to have Kenny committed.

By mentioning Joelinton you are again weakening your argument. It happening at club football is an easy enough change but international football doesnt really happen anymore. And Collins was dropped since xmas at club level. Those suggestions are nuts!

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726727#Comment_120726727

So what if he hasn't played midfield for club claims like that just show how out of touch those making the never ending excuses for Kenny have become. For someone who keeps insisting on modern play and modern philosophy I'm surprised you've missed how defenders have gradually become more technically adept.

Collins is arguably the most comfortable and composed player on the ball in the whole team (maybe Johnston now but he takes on players in tight spaces rather than trying to exert control.) And in the last few games Collins carrying the ball forward from the backline has been our best outball. He also has a quite decent long range shot and is a huge aerial presence. Given the fact that Cullen/Knight/Molumby have often gone missing Collins has already been doing their job better than they have.

Its also a matter of convenience. We have 4 center backs good enough to start (Egan,Omobamidele, O'Shea, Collins) so pushing the most technical of them into midfield where our options are dire isn't that revolutionary.

Best example Alaba was probably the best (or certainly one of them) left back in the world yet Austria realised he was just their best player in general, and as they already had Christian Fuchs as left back they realised just plugging Alaba in for Fuchs wouldn't be a huge change. So despite Alaba being a LB they put him midfield where the Austrian team needed him most and he would be most effective for them.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727098#Comment_120727098

You are not making much sense to be honest it must be the heat in the midlands!

Players can change position to another position of they have the potential of it - either skillset and physical stature simple as that.

Cullen and Molumpy are way too lightweight, if Kenny switched Collins into the middle during the match and subbed Molumphy/Cullen/Smallbone for another defender bringing Collins in the middle. He would have got praised for attempting to change things and shore up the middle. With a bite of bite.

Molumphy/Cullen/Smallbone/Idah are all lightweight meek sort of players. Grand if they are given time, but awful if not given time.

Plus Roy Keane as manager mean that the FAI finally get a shirt sponsor, raise the profile. By the way I didn't like Keane after Siapan etc. But I believe he is the obvious choice as next Ireland manager now. Given the constraints and criteria.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727122#Comment_120727122

If hes that good on the ball why didnt his club try him there? You know the manager and coaches that see him 5/6 days a week? Kenny would have been slated for playing him there and you continuing to talk about it absolute nonsense.

Sure while we are at it, stick Bazunu up top coz hes great with his feet and John Egan in goal coz his dad was a great ga player.....

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727147#Comment_120727147

So again in a must not lose game you wanted the manager to play a player out of position for the first time ever? You dont know a lot about football.

You think Keane is more likely to pull in a sponsor? Maybe so but hes also likely to absolutely explode, fall out with players and say anything in a press conference. There are not too many companies who would want that.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727160#Comment_120727160

Mid game throw on an extra defender for one of the midfield lads and push Collins up. Not rocket science.

He liked to bomb forward anyway, remember that shot he had and goal v Ukraine. The fella is wasted at centre back. He has the physical attributes and mentality that the meek 'so called' midfielders like Molumpy and Cullen.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727160#Comment_120727160

In fact straight from the horses mouth Nathan Collins (June 2022) said -

https://www.the42.ie/nathan-collins-6-5791345-Jun2022/

“I like a little mazy run into midfield”, reflected Collins. “I like running with the ball, I like dribbling and I just saw the chance and thought ‘Listen, if I don’t take it now, I never will’. I went for it, it worked out, it came off and it was a goal.”

If you’re wondering why Collins looked so comfortable stepping into midfield for the goal, the clues are found in his youth. He was initially a midfielder, until his father David – and coach at Cherry Orchard – repurposed him as a centre-back when he was 13. “He thought it was the right time.”

“It obviously helped technically-wise but I was training four times a week with matches at weekend”, said Collins of his positional switch. “I had a ball at my feet all the time and I think that what helped me technically, more than anything else. People look at me and see I’m tall and assume I am slow and unagile. That’s the perspective from the outside but I am comfortable in midfield. If someone asked me to play midfield and do a job I’d do my best. Once I am on the pitch I don’t really care. Put me anywhere and I’ll do a job. I am comfortable anywhere. I have done it for Stoke, I even played right wing-back for Stoke. I played every position, I am comfortable in every position.”

johnnyryan89

https://twitter.com/IrelandFootball/status/1670023483730829315

U21s play again on Monday against Kuwait U23s

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727151#Comment_120727151

Well Wolves have Ruben Neves, Joao Moutinho, Matheus Nunes, Joao Gomes and Mario Lemina as midfield options. So they dont need to put Collins in midfield as they already have better midfielders, all of whom happen to be better midfielders than the ones we have.

You may notice that none of them Wolves midfielders are Irish, and international football doesnt allow for us to sign better midfielders. Hence why we would require his talents in midfield, I mentioned Alaba managing to play completely different positions and roles between club and country, but you seem to have missed that fantasizing about Egan in goal and Bazunu up top.

A key thing in international football is making the best of the tools thats available to you. Thats why Austria put Alaba in midfield, why Scotland stick Tierney (and previously McTominay) center back. But I guess that is just too modern a phenomenon for fans of Kenny's modern philosophy.

supermans ghost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726834#Comment_120726834

Well said Forest, spot on.

There are quite a few posters that are complete bluffers defending Kenny’s complete lack of performance as the manager, in love with the sound of their own voices and/or posts.

Jack Charlton took a group of players that had finished 2nd last in a WC qualifying group in 1986 and moulded them into a team that was very difficult to beat and played to a system that meant every player knew what was expected of them taking to the field, he took us to 3 major tournaments, and gave the country some of their best sporting memories.

Stephen Kenny took over a team and naively made pronouncements about playing attractive football, without having the players to deliver it. You have to cut your cloth accordingly. He is a terrible communicator as evidenced by his inability to conduct a coherent post match interview, you have to wonder, if he can’t communicate to a reporter, how can he communicate his vision or directive to his players.

Bottom line, a decent LOI manager who should never have been given the job in the first place.

TheCitizen

Watching Scotland here beating Norway 2-1 away from home. Norway the better side mostly but when a game is fairly tight if you’re streetwise you can win.

Are Scotland in terms of talent much better than Ireland? I wouldn’t think so and in the two recent games between the sides Ireland won at home and Scotland won the return game.

The problem with Stephen Kenny is there is no consistency. Some good performances are happening but the next day out it’s like we’re back to square one. We don’t have to go the Steve Clarke type route which would be similar to MON or Trap, but neither can we persist with Stephen.

Hopefully beat Gibraltar on Monday and send him on his way with a win.

pgj2015

Did Cullen or Molumby get a touch of the ball in the first half?

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726834#Comment_120726834

A lot of bluffers for definite. They’ve always been there. Scotland fans celebrating tonight under a pragmatic manager Steve Clark, but we’re too good for that sort of pragmatism?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727701#Comment_120727701

Obviously its more enjoyable to watch us loose to Luxembourg playing the "modern way".

Scotland is just "stone age".

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727597#Comment_120727597

Yes they absolutely are better than Ireland talent wise.

Jesus Christ the delusion is real. Some people here are exactly what we used to give out about England fans. Way above our station.

Before anyone starts, that doesn't mean Ireland aren't capable of getting a result against Scotland, Greece or Norway. However pound for pound anyone who thinks we are better than any of those three is absolutely clueless.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727122#Comment_120727122

It’s just a super bad idea. He might be grand on the ball, but has literally zero experience of what to do in a midfield without the ball - which is by a mile the most important part of the role. No tactical ‘muscle memory’ of where to be. No nous for who to track, who to hand off, when to drop, when to push up and press.

He’s a guy who, if he worked hard on it for a few months at club level day in day out could make a decent CM, but to throw him into the middle (a totally monumentally tactically different role from CB) in a team he already only joins up with every few months, with no practiced experience whatsoever - It would be a train wreck.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727597#Comment_120727597

This.

The likes of Scotland, Wales and NI are made up of players from lower EPL, Championship and League 1 teams, but they have a bit if structure and organization about them.

Apart from the top 6 or 8 teams, most of these international sides are very ordinary, the standard isn't that high, so spread out is the talent across so many nations nowadays. I was all for SK getting a fair shot at it, but he's had 3 years and they are still going backways, zero sign of improvement.

I genuinely felt sorry for Ferguson last night in particular. Cannon got a hard time here last week over maybe changing to declare for England. Watching Ferguson last night, he'd be a fool to commit to this Ireland side if he has any alternative.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727756#Comment_120727756

Well Molumby/Knight/whoever beside Cullen hasn't shown much muscle memory or nous of when to track, hand off, push up or press during their trainwreck outings. So admittedly while Collins mightn't work he'd hardly be much worse than what does be plodding about our midfield.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727551#Comment_120727551

LOI fans jumped up and down that they wanted an LOI manager.

The stats don't lie. The results are there for all to see. He is out of his depth and it hasn't worked.

The bonkers notion that we are going to play slick passing football and beat continental teams playing them at their own game when they are technically so superior was always for the birds.

Jack Charlton knew that. He said if we try and play that way we'll get stuffed. And we have been getting stuffed game after game trying to play a system that NO higher level manager would have our team playing because they'd know we don't, and never have had, a group of players that can do that and win against technically superior continental teams.

We have to play to the only strengths we have.

It's just all so grim for the national side at the moment and there is no light at the end of the tunnel I can see even if we got rid of Kenny.

deisedude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727840#Comment_120727840

I'm in agreement Kenny needs to go but using what Jack Charlton did over 30 years ago to back up your point is weak

ebbsy

I remember leaving Ireland 0 Slovakia 0 during Traps time in charge, and said never again.

Now I know he was right.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727884#Comment_120727884

It's pathetic. It's exactly why some people still have notions about where we are at the moment.

Some here saying we're as good as Scotland ffs who have defenders and midfielders playing at much higher levels than all of ours.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727909#Comment_120727909

Do you think we are better than any nation?

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727884#Comment_120727884

I think it's a perfectly valid point. The circumstances are no different. We cannot play the way we are trying to play and win.

I have no doubt if Charton tried to play his far more gifted team to our current on3 that way we'd not have qualified for any tournament.

pgj2015

Even if we get another manager like trap who will play awful looking football, would you be bothered watching it? Kenny had Dundalk playing far nicer football than O neill and mccarthy had the Ireland team playing a few years ago, thats a fact. I loved watching his Dundalk teams. But he had players who tried unlike the bottlers he has now.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727916#Comment_120727916

Of course I do.

Now that I've answered your sarcastic sh*tpost, do you believe that we are better than Scotland?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727918#Comment_120727918

The game has completely changed in the last 30 years.

The circumstances are completely different because the game has moved on substantially, unlike many here.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727741#Comment_120727741

The midfield last night wasn’t set up properly.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727933#Comment_120727933

OK then, let's keep the show on the road, try to play attractive football.

We will never qualify for another tournament.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727929#Comment_120727929

It wasn't a sarcastic shítpost at all. A genuine question as after every embarassing result from Kenny the go to excuses/tropes have been

1) people with "notions" are expecting too much

2) none of the Irish players would get into any opposition side

3) that all opponents are playing at a higher level.

4) this is the right modern way, stone age people don't see defeats as progress like the modern thinkers do.

I was genuinely curious would there ever be a level where these excuses might get retired or have some people lost the run of themselves and think Ireland is the worst national team in existence.

Happy to see there actually is a bottom to the barrel re: excuses 1-3

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727927#Comment_120727927

Ni were robbed of a draw in Copenhagen last night by a home town VAR call. Michael O'Neill has brought them to the Euros recently.

They are not a good side, but my point is you don't have to be. Ordinary sides can compete at this level, ignore the likes of France, England, maybe Germany and Spain and Italy, and we should be competitive with anyone else, picking up points here and there. We certainly should not be dominated and we'll beaten by 4th seed teams time and time again.

Whatever about the future and a potential lack of players T come through, we should be threatening to qualify for a 24 team tournament of all European teams.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727952#Comment_120727952

We will

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727952#Comment_120727952

Thats modern progress!

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727735#Comment_120727735

It’s consistency that we need to build a team. We’re not getting that with Stephen Kenny. We beat Scotland at home, did well in defeat v France but then back to square one last night in terms of performance or the players understanding what’s expected of them.

Scotlands win away to Norway was just being streetwise. We need that otherwise we’re just going to fall further and further behind.

You and whoever “likes” your post are those that are delusional.