Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

johnnyryan89 · 13-09-2023 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104141#Comment_121104141

Find it funny that the reason Keane isn't working is because he refuses to do jobs that are beneath him but you see him on Sky getting paid to be one half of a comedy duo with Micah Richards.

I'd rather be the groundsman for Accrington Stanley than having to bantz it up with Big Meeks to make Sky Sports look fun and interesting.

McFly85 · 13-09-2023 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104100#Comment_121104100

Nothing stopping Mick from staying on for that playoff but he decided to use the COVID delay as an excuse to take his qualification bonus.

And Mick didn’t even get us to a playoff anyway. He finished third and due to the nations league layout at the time we were just given a playoff.

gormdubhgorm · 13-09-2023 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104158#Comment_121104158

Roy Keane has profile/stature simplifies a game, Kenny has big talk big notions of himself. Like the plus size model who thinks he is a beauty.

I am being very consistent all I saw from Kenny and supporters like yourself was pipe dream stuff - as if 'hope' was enough. Then when it failed blame the FAI? Weird.

awec · 13-09-2023 11:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104182#Comment_121104182

What on earth does Keane's profile have to do with anything?

Simplifying a game is not a good thing. This is not the 00s any more. The game has moved on from the likes of Keane, no club of any real stature has come near him in over a decade and this is not a coincidence.

athlone99 · 13-09-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104182#Comment_121104182

I would rather big notions than a manger coming out and slating our players and basically saying sure what am i suppose to do with this lot. Again profile and stature, so why not hire Bono?

I liked how Kenny talked about the team and what he wanted to do. It was great to hear something positive about Irish football after MON and TRAP, who by the way didnt even think we had a league here. Kenny failed to live up to all his talk so his contract wont be renewed, but the FAI should hire someone who will build on what Kenny started. Keane is not that man.

And yes many of the senior mens team failings do lie at the door of the FAI, they neglected Irish football for 30 years, that is the reason the minnows as you and other called them are now competitive against us. They went forward and we have gone backwards, thats a fact.

Liam O · 13-09-2023 12:19pm

All things considered Keane would have more experience than Carsley and everyone seems happy enough that they go for him. I would avoid both though.

I think a young manager who would have some ideas and has shown they can get good performances out of Championship or similar level players is the way to go.

Maybe doesn't even have to be young, just have evolved past hoofball. But different asking Carsley to do it when the disparity between quality available and against is the opposite of what he has experienced so far.

Would look at someone like McKenna but it's a tough appointment.

TheCitizen · 13-09-2023 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100552#Comment_121100552

Had a listen there for old times sake and it sounded like Dunphy was lamenting the days when he’d be contrarian for the sake of it but now it doesn’t get him any attention for his views contrary or not. He was asking Giles is anyone asking you about the current state of Irish football etc. We all wanted Stephen Kenny to do well, most of us anyway for definite. However it’s ridiculous for Dunphy and Giles to be calling for his contract to be extended. Way too obviously contrarian from Dunphy particularly who always tried that and also way out of step. If he was still on the RTE panel and getting his attention fix he’d be calling for Stephen to be removed ages ago.

Got a bit of attention perhaps one more time though with that silly call to renew Kenny’s appointment fair play. LOL.

For Forks Sake · 13-09-2023 12:31pm

Is it too much to ask for a manager and backroom team with a modicum of tactical nous,

Kenny, Andrews and whoever else is there failed entirely to notice that the Dutch had changed formation at halftime the other day, didn't make any subs or positual changes until after the 70th minute when the Dutch were ahead and cruising.

That's the most recent example, there have been plenty similar over the past three years.

Imagine being tactically outclassed by Ronald f*cking Koeman 🙄

LuckyLloyd · 13-09-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103933#Comment_121103933

In the end, the mitigating factors proposed for each poor result on an individual level are fine; but cumulatively the sample grows and the poor results still come.

Episode 2736: You Say You Want An Evolution? Ireland 1 - 2 Netherlands - Second Captains

Second Captains was an excellent listen this week, and it built on the studio analysis by RTE post match on Sunday. Sure, Holland are better than us and were favourites to win but Kenny's inability to identify that the Dutch had changed shape to start the second half and react to same killed our chances of taking them on the day. Damien Delany echoed Hamman's analysis - there are basic tactical and in game management deficiencies on display, and this was a repeat of the Greece game in June. These are disqualifying points, and cannot be tallied up on the other side of the ledger by style or giving players their debut or whatever.

In the end, we need to have expectations and we have to keep score for the Senior International team primarily by results. Every Irish team in the past and every Irish team in the future will be up against it. We need to maximise motivation, tactical awareness and in game management in order to get the best out of what we have. Kenny has failed on that front, over an extended sample and must go now.

johnnyryan89 · 13-09-2023 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104542#Comment_121104542

Options are gonna be limited cause any decent manager is gonna be employed and international football isn't really that attractive of an option. Can't see the FAI paying compensation and wages for a manager.

While Carsley is in a job he's only on a 12 month rolling contract. So while they'd have to wait until next summer I don't think the FA would stand in his way if he wants out. Similar with Hughton. His contract is up next year and don't think Ghana would stand in his way after AFCON if he wants out.

Just cause you mentioned McKenna but he wouldn't touch us with a barge pool. If we were paying MON wages he might give it a think over but his sights will be set on the Premier League. If we want someone like a McKenna then we'll have to take a chance on someone like Ipswich took a chance on him.

I think Chris Wilder could be someone that's attainable. His time at Boro didn't go well and Watford didn't bother keeping him on this summer. Don't think he's gonna get decent offers anytime soon. Don't think I'd have any faith in the FAI of finding any that's never managed in the UK anyway.

athlone99 · 13-09-2023 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104589#Comment_121104589

Yes it looks like they the management team did nothing, but maybe they did mention it and talk about it at half time? They may have given players instructions if x and y happened. This kind of thing happens constantly in high level sport. Until some of the players come and speak out like some did after MON left we will never know if there was instructions or not. It does look like they didnt react but maybe they trained for the scenario in prep for the game and the players werent just good enough to deal with it?

We can all slate Kenny and the management team for the perceived lack of in game changes but it is possible they had planned for different scenarios but the plan simply wasnt good enough. And by the way the in game changes and late substitutions are one of Kennys biggest flaws as manager of the senior team.

McFly85 · 13-09-2023 2:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104917#Comment_121104917

I’ve been a fan of his appointment but the correlation between the tactical rigidity in Greece and against the Dutch shows that his ceiling has been hit.

Was sitting in the stadium, first half we set up very well, and it was really encouraging to see us causing the Dutch real problems.

Second half it was obvious to everyone around that the Dutch had changed tactically so it was disappointing to see no reaction. Even the first sub I recall was like for like? By the time we had changed the Dutch were happy to play on the counter.

He seems very good at putting the work in to analyse how his opponents like to play and setting up to counter that. But Greece didn’t play like he expected from the start, and he had no answer to that. Once the Dutch changed it was the same.

But he has shown that we don’t need to sit back and play long ball against these teams. If the next manager can add some good game management to that and can proactively change as the game goes on we can hopefully see some real improvement.

gormdubhgorm · 13-09-2023 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104542#Comment_121104542

It is false equivalency that it is either Stephen Kenny or 'Hoofball'

Kennyball = possession football done incorrectly with no purpose - done for the sake of it - passing side to side between the centre backs

Hoofball = is a more direct game done incorrectly with no purpose - done for the sake of it - lamped in the air all the time with no thought

This is the major error people are making the choice is not Hoofball or Kenny. What people should want is a manager that gets the maximum out of his team.

Based on the players available (lots of fast/strong pacey lads) that to me means quick direct ball, high energy - playing on the counter that is not 'hoofball'

The bit that annoys me more is the narrative Kenny created that he had the players to play in dreamland manner of 'Kennyball'. He was not only going to win he was going to change Irish football! That was the lines we were fed. Correct me if I am wrong?

Whoever the next manager is I hope he (or even she) is a realist! It is not the senior managers job to go on some sort of idealogical crusade. The senior managers remit is to do the maximum out of the players available, and getting a team to play better than the sum of its parts - to get results, as simple as that.

Kenny tried to do things the wrong way around. Then cohorts of the media spun it that it was not based on winning matches/getting results, it was all about an idealogical style of play. But lets be honest he did not even achieve that either.

I never want to see that again. And I never want to see an Irish manager fighting back the tears as he was listing his 'achievements' in an interview, when he was dying on his arse.

Grand managers can lose, but lets not have a losing manager who constantly distorts reality, with a media making excuses for him. Just because they like him, and he fits an agenda.

DJIMI TRARORE · 13-09-2023 3:19pm

Slim pickings all round by the looks of things as regards a new manager, obviously anyone could become available at short notice, would a part time manager work??, probably not but wages of circa 300/400k a year might encourage some one to try it

Did you smash it · 13-09-2023 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105460#Comment_121105460

Is any national manager in Europe double jobbing?

McFly85 · 13-09-2023 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105364#Comment_121105364

Hoofball = bypassing the midfield with a long ball to a lone forward in the hopes of winning a free kick or holding it up long enough to bring the wide players into play. Most of the game spent giving away possession and defending with 10 behind the ball. It’s a low ceiling philosophy used to prioritise not losing.

It’s not really an issue if it’s used sparingly against teams that are wildly better - but when it’s used for every team around you and becomes your primary way of getting a result, you’re really unlikely to be able to change and go for a win if needed. It’s sort of an illusion of success. You’re getting results in the form of draws but really isn’t helping with your progress.

Kennyball isn’t really a thing though.He’s tried several different variations of formation/tactics over the years to get the team to play well. The issue which has become evident is his inability to change on the fly as the opposition changes.

I don’t think it has anything to do with agendas or narratives. Kenny believed he could get the team to a better place than they were and raise their potential, and a lot of fans wanted him to succeed. I think 99% of fans accept now that he’s not the man to do that, which is understandable.

But I think it was a worthwhile appointment. I feel far better about the squad than I did when he had first arrived, and I think the right person can improve them even further. I don’t buy the idea that it has been such a disaster that we should be going back to get another mercenary in. Progress needs to be made.

gormdubhgorm · 13-09-2023 3:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105482#Comment_121105482

I don't agree that progress has been made at all really, it is a bit of a mess - directionless. Plus your last last line implies that mercenaries will only take the job. Mercenaries are people who are only after money. But to hire mercenaries you need money - the FAI don't have that money.

The way you are talking the implication is that Kenny was 'nice guy' passionate so he some how deserved support just on the back of that alone.

Maybe in the initial stages fair enough. But to think like that constantly the reasons for keeping him there become something else, beyond football improvements. It becomes personality based.

If the next manager comes in and does sh!te after a period of games, and I give out about him. I doubt I will be accused of not caring about Irish football.

DJIMI TRARORE · 13-09-2023 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105481#Comment_121105481

Probably not, but if you don't ask you don't get

dr.kenneth noisewater · 13-09-2023 3:44pm

No chance of getting a young and upcoming manager IMO, even if we did then they'd likely leave as soon as another decent club offer came so we'd be back to square 1. Someone mentioned Mark Hughes to me the other day which was an interesting call, has done the Wales job before and doubt he'd require much compensation from Bradford

johnnyryan89 · 13-09-2023 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105481#Comment_121105481

Only remember Russia doing it. Guss Hiddink but he was Russia manager before becoming Chelsea interim manager and they replaced Capello during the Euro 2016 qualifiers with Leonid Slutsky. He resigned after the Euros and stuck with CSKA Moscow instead.

~Rebel~ · 13-09-2023 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104998#Comment_121104998

On Hughton - not only would Ghana not stand in his way, I'd say they'd be pretty happy about it. There's already murmurings of sacking him (he just got the dreaded 'vote of confidence' for the second time a week or so ago). In his four competitive games he's dropped points twice against teams ranked 50+ places below them, and was very nearly a third - needing a last minute winner at home against the Central African Republic last week (ranked over 60 places below them).

johnnyryan89 · 13-09-2023 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105612#Comment_121105612

Most likely cause the Ghanaian FA didn't want him in the first place. There was issues around him when it was first mentioned about him becoming manager.

Ghana had sacked their manager and the Ghanaian FA wanted Otto Addo who was working as a coach with the national team but the Ghanaian government who pay the wages wanted Chris Hughton. It's why he ended up as technical advisor rather than manager until after the WC.

Patrick2010 · 13-09-2023 4:20pm

Ian O Doherty in todays Indo suggested Steve Bruce or Big Sam

pgj2015 · 13-09-2023 4:48pm

I think we should stick with Kenny, give him the next 2 campaigns.

DJIMI TRARORE · 13-09-2023 4:57pm

How about Emma Hayes,it'd make as much sense as ,Keanes x 2,Duff,Bruce,Sam

LuckyLloyd · 13-09-2023 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105364#Comment_121105364

From the outset, Kenny's role has been confused in certain quarters with the necessary overhaul of the association so that "Champagne Football" under Delany is never repeated. This has always been wrong, not just because the Senior Team is ultimately about results; but because it provides cover to the new FAI on their progress with all the things that aren't the Senior Team.

A Senior Team Manager who is familiar with the LOI, picks LOI players and plays "better" football won't provide justice for Delaney, or ensure he doesn't happen again. A Senior Team manager you like or admire won't provide justice for Delaney, or ensure he doesn't happen again. The Senior Team playing pleasant football won't provide justice for Delany, or ensure he doesn't happen again.

In some respects the opposite is true: if you feel like the Senior Team are "grass roots" to an appropriate degree you might think all the major issues with funding, facilities, governance and strategy have been solved. And that is far from true, and won't be any truer just because Stephen Kenny remains the manager.

Pointing out the ways in which Stephen Kenny has been out of his depth as an International Manager doesn't make one opposed to funding for the local game, or pro better governance and accounting for the FAI. They should be decoupled. We should be able to have a Senior Team that plays direct results orientated football with a grizzled ex pro Manager while we have entirely different people in charge of our youth teams and development structures. If Stephen Kenny being sacked hurts development or youth football in this country then the scope of his role is incorrect.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-09-2023 6:03pm

Kenny has to go no question.

However it's been over 25 years since we have produced a CM from this Island of PL quality.

I appreciate Kenny and structures are different roles, but unless structures get into place here just keep going the way they are. We get to odd tournament but we will still underachieve in general.

Faugheen · 13-09-2023 6:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104100#Comment_121104100

You do realise we got to that play off by finishing last in our Nations League group, right?

theoneeyedman · 13-09-2023 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104154#Comment_121104154

Im not advocating for Kenny at all (in fact I think he's a lame duck at this stage for all his good intentions), but don't let MONs bitter ramblings in recent days fool you into thinking he's the answer, let alone Keane, heaven fuckin forbid he's let near it again.

gormdubhgorm · 13-09-2023 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106236#Comment_121106236

If you had a choice now out of potential managers who could take the Senior job?

I just thought of another option that no one has mentioned should Jim Crawford be offered some form of senior coaching role with the Senior side when the next manager is appointed? Could he do it in conjunction with his work as U21 manager?

It would at least bring some form of continuity exposing Crawford to different managerial styles/tactics etc?

johnnyryan89 · 13-09-2023 6:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106166#Comment_121106166

He must also think that Mick was gonna use his power of telekinesis to make sure Conor Hourihane might actually hit the target from five yards out.

Xander10 · 13-09-2023 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106294#Comment_121106294

Would you consider getting a girlfriend?

Might be good for you and all of us since it should cut down on your time constantly posting boring waffly stuff.

gormdubhgorm · 13-09-2023 7:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106322#Comment_121106322

It is a message board it is there for opinions - if you don't like my opinions there is mute button, which I am sure you are aware of. I am sorry if you feel that I have disrupted the status quo of this thread. I naively thought it was for the discussion of all things ROI - Soccer related.

You would have never made such a comment to @johnnyryan89 who I noted liked your post above. But I also noted he constantly posts. A lot more than I have done on this thread.

So why is there one rule for @johnnyryan89 and one for me? A clique is it?

Xander10 · 13-09-2023 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106357#Comment_121106357

Same rule . It's just you are very boring and might not realise it.

gormdubhgorm · 13-09-2023 7:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106425#Comment_121106425

I refer you to my previous comment, you just don't like me because I give my opinion which you don't agree with obviously. But you are unable to articulate it properly. So you have to lash out.

You even went to the effort of bringing up Dublin GAA at one point to try and disparage me. Don't worry, you have given me a good idea of the type of individual I am interacting with.

pgj2015 · 13-09-2023 7:36pm

Was just listening to the Dunphy podcast, had to laugh at him saying "Duffy had a great game against the Netherlands" 😂😂 he was hugely at fault for both goals we conceded. But I agree with him and Giles that we should stick with Kenny.

LuckyLloyd · 13-09-2023 9:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106322#Comment_121106322

So anything which isn’t pro Kenny is “waffle”? Or to suggest Roy Keane, one of our best ever players, who had a great stint at Sunderland and was part of a managerial team that qualified for a tournament would be a viable candidate is “waffle”?

I don’t know man, the results are in and a lot of the status quo on here and in the media last three years is looking like the waffly stuff.

noodler · 13-09-2023 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106155#Comment_121106155

Glen Whelan

noodler · 13-09-2023 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106920#Comment_121106920

Absolutely clutching I'd say

noodler · 13-09-2023 9:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106804#Comment_121106804

Very waffly.

All sorts of nonsense conflation between Kenny and unrelated issues.

Our future qualifications have been made that bit harder due to the results under this period.

Weepsie · 13-09-2023 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106920#Comment_121106920

Yeah there was little guarantee though that it would've helped. We've struggled against teams from that division below in qualifying games.

McFly85 · 13-09-2023 10:24pm

It’s not pro-Kenny to suggest that a man who hasn’t been a manager for 12 years would be a rubbish appointment.

Having to bring up that one time he was successful as a manager 16 years ago says it all really.

Brock Turnpike · 13-09-2023 10:26pm

One thing I can be certain of is that the first place the FAI will look for a list of candidates is the Republic of Ireland soccer thread on boards.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-09-2023 10:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106922#Comment_121106922

He struggled to get into Stoke team for many a season there and his stats were well down. Good pro though.

noodler · 13-09-2023 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107091#Comment_121107091

I honestly don't remember that.

He was an ever present in the stoke team for around ten years.

I'm not sure you are going to get more PL ever present than that.

~Rebel~ · 13-09-2023 11:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107070#Comment_121107070

Yeah, like, surely the rational position would be to want a new manager, but to definitely not want that new manager to be Roy Keane. Love the fella, he’s great value to watch on stuff, and I’d love to go for a pint with him. But he’s not a good manager (or indeed, a manager at all really anymore).