Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235097#Comment_121235097

Ah I wouldn't expect it from him either though (or from any other manager). Their job is to do their best while they're under contract. He's done his best - that just hasn't been good enough, so it's the responsibility of his bosses to sack him.

glenjamin

It's a once in a lifetime opportunity for him. He will never get a job as high profile or that pays the same. Of course he won't resign. Plus the fact he's in denial and seemingly believes he can turn it around.

It's a shame we aren't playing Gibraltar and New Zealand in the last 2 games. Would have been the perfect chance for a new manager to come in. Either way he has to go. There's nothing to be made from him staying on at this point. One of the worst managers we've ever had in charge of the NT. Pay him off now just to end the misery.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235106#Comment_121235106

Wouldn't be too worried about that - internationals make up only a tiny tiny fraction of the football being watched. Kids will still be watching PL teams week in week out, and be playing it in school and on weekends themselves anyway, regardless whats' going on with the national team. I'm sure rugby will grow a bit, but soccer will always absolutely eclipse it.

And as far as investment goes, it's feckin' dog racing getting about 4 times what soccer does that is the absolute travesty.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121234871#Comment_121234871

We still produce good, technical players like Ferguson and Collins but there seems to be a lack of physical presence about this Irish team which is a major disadvantage in the modern game. Our problems are not all tactical .It was striking how good Greece were on the break, attacking at speed in numbers while we, in comparison, just seemed to jog around passively not laying a glove on them. I don't blame Kenny entirely for that. It's difficult to teach if the players you are working with lack the necessary athleticism. Anyway, who knows, we could still qualify via the play-offs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235106#Comment_121235106

Not a hope.

It's great Ireland are good at Rugby, but not many parents are in a rush to let their kids play it.

Rugby is heading for a CTE catastrophe. Potential brain damage is a hard sell.

Father Hernandez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121234737#Comment_121234737

The sad part with Kenny is I don't know where we go next.

The FAI haven't a pot to píss in, the government seemingly don't want to invest in football - can't blame them really given the FAI can't be trusted with their track record.

As a footballing nation, we like the shiny things too much rightly or wrongly, epitomised by decades of underinvestment in our own domestic league. @tastyt absolutely bang on with the above. We're all collectively guilty of it, the EPL across the pond is massively enticing to watch over own our league for the vast majority. The problem child the LOI was called by a certain previous gowl of a man prevented many from getting involved or support our own teams/league.

If we want to stop the rot, a manager won't magically change things overnight. Getting our house in order is the own solution and I'd have no confidence in the FAI to get that sorted.

I do truly believe we're a better side than we're currently showing. Kenny is a good man, cares about football in this country but he's simply not good enough. The next manager is crucial to get right unless we're going to slip further and further into international obscurity but football in this country needs a full reset. Pity we're too concerned about 'hosting' the Euro's in 5 years time than actually developing football in this country.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235057#Comment_121235057

He thought we played with purpose in that second half and didn't think them a bit flat??

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121234760#Comment_121234760

That’s a fair point. He is done so if they don’t pay him off the full amount it may be in his best interests to quit after the Gibraltar game and cut his losses and maybe work with younger players for the FAI at some point in the future. He should go one way or the other asap and should be already gone.

TheCitizen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235081#Comment_121235081

Yep. No point in Tony filleting him. Everyone knows he’s gone and that’s what makes it depressing and pointless for the players, fans even Kenny himself, everyone involved.

LowOdour

Thinking about the midfield and how poor it is. I know it's not what the purists want to see, but would love to see someone with a bit of dog in them on the team. Not sure we have any one like that available to us.

Tackling and tackling hard isnt enough in the professional game, but our midfield could do with something different in it

glenjamin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235151#Comment_121235151

The thing is we would have the players to play that exact same way as Greece did in terms of counter attacking. Johnston, Festy and Ogbene are all blessed with natural pace particularly the latter two. That showcased the difference between Poyet's way of thinking against Kenny's. It's all about making use of the players you have and sometimes it's better to sit back, allow the opposition to push, and then hit them with a quick counter. We changed tactically during the second half opting instead to put in more deep crosses which where largely ineffective and the Greeks dealt with ease. Kenny was once again beaten by a tactically superior manager.

Azatadine

You'd have to worry about Collins at this stage. He's prone to lapses for Brentford as well.

kksaints

Terrible performance. Kenny should be gone after that and fair enough he's had his chance but the players deserve a lot of criticism for that performance.

Collins was shocking for their two goals and deservedly was taken off at halftime. Knight is all effort, very little quality, he was better in the 2nd half but I don't think he's good enough atm. Smallbone has been awful every appearance for the senior squad so far, his setpieces have been particularly disappointing. Cullen never played the right pass when we had an opportunity, he's regressed since the start of the campaign. Duffy is killing us with our deep he's sitting and is allowing the opposition to keep the forwards up the pitch. Think he's been figured out somewhat at setpieces also, he hasn't looked a threat from them recently. This should be his last campaign tbh. Doherty bar his threat from setpieces has been very poor. Can be caught out defensively and never does the right thing with the ball. Was amazed Ogbene got potm after his role in Greece's first goal. He's crossing wasn't very good either. Browne didn't play well and he's not a deep midfielder I feel. He needs to play off the striker. Ferguson was septic after the 1st five minutes, his first touch was dreadful and he made the wrong decision with the ball every time he got it. Bar Collins he was our worst player and with his recent injury record he never should have played the full matches. Scales played reasonably well bar a few misplaced passes and only him and Bazunu didn't really under perform.

Bad night and even though I think we underestimated the Greeks beforehand we really should have done much better. There's plenty of potential for the next manager to work with but a lot of the players need to start fulfilling it at this stage. Kenny has made mistakes but that team was setup correctly tonight and bar maybe Egan there wasn't anyone missing that would be starting usually. Players shouldn't be protected after that performance, we're far too reluctant to criticise them at times bar a few scapegoats.

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235260#Comment_121235260

We had Molumby and Knight for that role. It hasn't worked when they played. We need quality in midfield not workhorses. Hopefully Smallbone will turn it around after a poor start and some of the under 21s like Moran kick on at club level.

sonic85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235332#Comment_121235332

Realistically what good is he? Seems to always be good for a catastrophic error of some description. He just can't be trusted

sonic85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235336#Comment_121235336

I agree with pretty much all that post bar Bazunu - he couldn't do anything about the goals but I thought he was shakey enough. He had a few dodgy moments.

Most of the players are septic at the minute - Cullen basically does nothing in midfield. Plays a lot of short passes but never plays in a positive manner - rarely if ever looks to play the ball forward

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235383#Comment_121235383

He dropped one corner in the 1st half that could have been a bad mistake but he was blameless for the goals, made a good save in the 1st half from a Greek break and dealt with most of the shots comfortably. Nothing stand out but nothing catastrophically bad either.

franglan

The whole under investment/mismanaging of Irish soccer angle I think is a separate issue to this campaign and Kenny campaigns in general. Even with all Delaney's era shambolics we have the basis of a team which should compete against Greece but we were tactically exposed in both games desperately. I don't buy the "they are technically better" arguement. Look at where our players are playing, few in the prem, mostly in the championship. I'd argue our squad is playing at a higher level than the Greece squad named (it's close I know). Is a mid table Turkish team better than say the standard of Norwich/Stoke/Southampton I say not tbh. Saying we don't have the players anymore because we can't name a starting 11 playing in the most competitive league in the world of the world's game is a cope out. The premier league is now the world's league, our players are competing in academics and match day squads with the best of the best in previous times it was the home nations plus a few others. Tactically we get repeatedly outclassed, that lies with the coaching staff. On the players side some tried but a lot from my viewing are on the "bossman is gone" plane, at what ever level you've played at if you've invested anytime in team sport you feel that vibe in a camp or dressing room, it's hard shifted and you are looking forward to a new season with someone else from over the hill. It defo feels like that from watching.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235349#Comment_121235349

It's been a long time since Ireland has had a CM of true quality. It's a pity Stephen Ireland went peculiar, as he could have been a decent playmaker.

The_Kew_Tour

Kenny has to go but we don't have players either.

We are at least a decade away from a major tournament again sadly.

Until at least some investment goes into Irish football we are just going around in circles hoping for that big lucky break.

Utopia Parkway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235332#Comment_121235332

Thought it was odd when Wolves let him leave after a year and the Brentford defence seems to have got worse if anything this season since he joined. Throw in some of the Ireland displays and it would make you wonder.

supermans ghost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235157#Comment_121235157

Have to concur, Modern Rugby is not a safe sport for young people. The emphasis is entirely based on hard hitting tackling by guys who are beefed up in the gym to cause maximum damage and impact when tackling opponents, I fear that Johnny Sexton has already incurred a lot of head trauma in his career to date.

My take is we were never that good as an international team until we started adopting players in the 1970’s onwards and got some really good ones playing for us which combined with some good managers got us to 3 world cups and Euro 88, that’s turned on it’s head now as players like Grealish and Rice are now reluctant to declare for us and the others are playing the game as a much lower level in the UK due to the influx of foreign players in the English league. Basically we are screwed for the immediate future.

hawkwing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235524#Comment_121235524

As a Wolves fan many were glad to see him go and couldn't believe the money they got for him. Always makes 2-3 woeful errors per game despite looking decent at times and a good header for corners. Adama and Raul Jimenez also, not up to the level of the premiership any more in Raul's case and Traore could not hold his place wherever he was. Doc is hit and miss, dangerous when attacking but where do you play him, 95% of Wolves fans did not want him back, decent lad though it seems.

Zak Flaps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121234816#Comment_121234816

Outside LOI what other team would hire Stephen Kenny?

Queen Of The South?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235507#Comment_121235507

It's more a pity people like Stephen hunt were total knobheads to him so he never felt very welcome when with the squad

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121234992#Comment_121234992

Disagree with this to be honest.

Many Rugby fans really just like a pint and wouldn't watch anything outside of the national side. Participation wise will still see football and GAA as the two most played. Rugby just has too many barriers to entry.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235433#Comment_121235433

It's not a seperate issue.

The fact we have Kenny as manager is part of the "underinvestment/mismanagement"

Throughout the whole Kenny reign people have been calling for him to go but get nobody seemed able to say how we replace him with someone better.

Gonna be a lot of shocked casual fans out there when or next manager is also revealed to be a pound shop appointment. And probably same for the one after him too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235721#Comment_121235721

Irish rugby is like tennis for the English. Everyone goes wild for Wimbledon and then forgets about it for another year. Same with the way you get Tour de France fans as opposed to cycling fans.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235721#Comment_121235721

There are only a handful of great national teams in Rugby. It's not a world game in the way soccer is. The Rugby World Cup is never going to have the same level of excitement, prestige and passion that the soccer World Cup would, if you compare Ireland playing in both. Not even close.

Higgins5473

Last night was bleak. The stuff with the balls down the away end summed up the night and the Kenny situation. It started as a bit of fun but It was getting quite hostile at times as the crowd had totally lost interest. My son who usually looks forward to these games weeks in advance lost interest and wanted to leave not long into the second half. I’ve left my season ticket renewal and if Kenny isn’t outright sacked today then I won’t bother. Im 45, I’ve never seen Irish international football in a worse state. His tenure has been a disaster, there’s no sugar coating it or trying to take positives from it, there are none.

Ferris_Bueller

That was probably the worst night I've had in Lansdowne Road. Losing 1-5 to Denmark was more of a gutting feeling but at least there was some excitement and emotion before that game and in the first few minutes. Last night was just so bleak and felt I was just waiting for it to be over before it even started.

Awful performance from everyone involved. Greece were miles better than us. We are probably worse now than we were at the start of Kenny's era. God love any fans who've booked to go over to Gibraltar or the Netherlands away for what will be two of the least relevant games we have played in our history.

Have had a season ticket for the last 6 or 7 years, think I'll be taking a break next year.

Fr Tod Umptious

What I don't get is that some people here thought that we would be coming third in the group and possibly competing for second.

They thought that Greece would not be part of the equation.

Where did people get that idea?

What had we seen in Kenny's reign up to that point to suggest Ireland could despense with a team like Greece?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235790#Comment_121235790

Are the FAI telling Kenny to make sure we are completely disorganised with no discernable shape, structure or plan during games?

We create fùck all and rarely even threaten to create, then we are so easy to play against as the defence is equally shapeless. Kenny's only tactic is possession for possessions sake until we loose it then start scrambling around.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235853#Comment_121235853

Well it seems very silly now that there was ever any notion that Kenny was improving things, but that was the idea.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235507#Comment_121235507

We had a great lad coming through the underage system. Played for West Ham I think. Wonder whatever happened to him……

All joking aside, the Rice and Grealish defections are just a symptom of the larger problem. We used to be tempting for English players with an Irish heritage to play for, now they see us as hopeless.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235853#Comment_121235853

Ireland had a few more encouraging results at the end of the 2022 WC qualifying, drawing with Portugal and Serbia, plus beating Azerbaijan and Luxembourg quite convincingly. It seemed that the mood was that, yeah, Stephen Kenny had got off to a bad start, but the work he was doing to change the team would take time to bear fruit and we were starting to see the flowers blooming before the harvest.

As we now know, these results turned out to be a blip and the team returned to its dire form in subsequent games.

I feel like some fans are falling into a thought trap that England were mired in for 20 years or more which is that because our players play in some of the best leagues in the world, why isn't our national team better? In England's case, it seemed to be that their players were more able to play a slick passing game when playing alongside players from other countries where this was a deeply ingrained part of footballing culture, but when English players themselves got together, they sort of regressed toward mindsets and habits learned very early on in their playing lives. It took quite a bit of patience and acceptance for England to break out of that, as well as grassroots investment. The journey for Ireland will probably be similar. The leagues they're playing in only matters so much. There needs to be a ground-up overhaul in how players approach the game from the time they begin playing.

ebbsy

Managing Ireland has always been about extracting the max out of average players.

Kenny just does not have the brains or presence to do that.

He also was never in contention for a playoff place, which is a total disgrace.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235928#Comment_121235928

I think Irish fans making any comparison with England past or present is rediculous. There is no comparison and never has been.

England have always been a top football team. They've under performed in tournaments but that's about it.

They've massive footballing structures from top down and x10 our population. I don't know why they get mentioned on here so often.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235909#Comment_121235909

I don't view Rice and Grealish as defecting when you consider that they had essentially been raised in the English system, bar the occasional international week.

As far as I can see, most of the English-born players Ireland has had would have declared for England at the time it came to declare if they had thought they'd get a game. Maybe Kevin Kilbane would have stuck to his guns, though.

It's an indictment of the FAI that we're all still hoping that this player or that player from another country will declare for RoI, and it amounts to wilfully placing the destiny of the national team out of its own hands. As long as that's happening, any great squads that come along will be down to the stars aligning.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235980#Comment_121235980

I don't make mention of England as if Ireland are in the same bracket, I'm saying that there is a similar question being asked as to why the Irish team is underperforming vs expectation, despite many of its players playing in good teams. We used to laugh a little bit at how delusional England seemed to be when it came to its place in world football, but England has done the soul searching required to kick on a bit from that. I think Ireland needs to do the same, and it probably requires tackling some similar issues and others that are unique.

pjohnson

The FAI and Kenny are two separate issues. The FAI is a longer term issue and is responsible for the lack of quality in the national pool.

Kenny is the short term issue responsible for getting as little as possible from that limited national pool.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236012#Comment_121236012

But England weren't delusional. They did underperform on the big stage. They always romped their qualifier groups.

We're $hite and for the most part always have been. So I see absolutely no comparison.

Maybe the delusional you speak of among some Irish fans is because they think there's any comparison to be made between the two countries.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236048#Comment_121236048

Whenever England got a tough second seed in qualifying, it's usually not been easy for them. Fair enough they could overcome the middling teams of European football like Slovakia and Bulgaria, but this has unsurprisingly failed to translate to the quality needed to get really deep into the finals, and this was a fact that the English public and many of its pundits couldn't square for quite a number of years.

We in Ireland would probably kill for England's performances pre-2010, but the point about expectation vs reality remains the same. Ireland isn't where its fans think it should be right now, and I think there is a consistent failure going to address fundamental problems with the approach to the game in this country that go way beyond which league some of its senior players are playing in. Unless those are properly addressed, not much will change.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236087#Comment_121236087

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think England's tournament performances were rightly criticised by their media/fans.

As it never matched up to their qualifying performances and they did have some of the best players in Europe's biggest league through the spine of their team.

I don't know who you socialise with but no-one I know thinks Ireland are underperforming.

They just think SK is useless. And his record in comparison to all previous managers is useless. So they're correct not delusional.

McFly85

Last night was pretty depressing alright. A real sense that the manager and squad know their journey is at an end.

I was a fan on the Kenny appointment and I like the look of the team he’s built(for the most part, crying out for some creativity in midfield), but this campaign has really highlighted his limitations. He’s not good at reading the opposition or reacting to changes they make. They seem to be sent out there with a basic enough plan and have no answer when that doesn’t work.

Greece are in the opposite position to us, a country that has lost all interest in the national team through years of underperforming is now looking a decent side under Poyet. I would think they are technically a step up from us but the gap isn’t what it looked like last night.

Anyway, we all know the campaign is the last of Kenny, and I really hope that the FAI have started to prepare to get his successor.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235524#Comment_121235524

Bit harsh to be insinuating that Collins joined Brentford now their defensive is worse without acknowledging the fact they've lost one of the best keepers in the league.

Wouldn't say the Brentford defence has gotten worse. It's weaker because of key players missing/leaving but after 8 games they've conceded 12 goals which is only one goal more than they conceded after the first 8 games last season.

Biggest issues for Brentford is they've lost their top class striker. New keeper is flaky compared to the top class Raya and Ben Mee has been missing but their biggest issues are upfront. They'd have turned some of those draws into wins and losses into draws with Toney playing.

Collins is still only 22. The lads still only a kid when it comes to being a CB and you'd be expecting a lad not to be the finished article at that stage and a make some mistakes. Pinnock is 8 years his senior and probably made one of Brentford's biggest mistakes with his hospital back pass against Arsenal.

SlickRic

he is the worst manager this team has ever had. i'd be confident in saying that. i didn't see anything pre-1988, but i doubt any of them were as naive as this lad.

there is a naivety in how he sets a team up that is frightening. how any top level coach can leave his backline so utterly exposed time and time again is madness. it's just bad coaching and incompetent team instruction.

there is also this mythology that to play expansively you have to leave yourself open. it's just not true. you either press high, and your players have high energy, pressing in packs, and in a coordinated manner so that the opposition makes bad decisions and you win the ball back, or you drop back into a block, and you coordinate yourselves so that you leave as few passing lanes as possible in order to frustrate the opposition. his team does neither. it doesn't drop into an organised block, but it plays quite high without pressing properly, so we get picked apart by anyone.

it's simply bad tactical setup.

and this is why I don't actually blame the players. they simply aren't this bad.

yes, the source of the issues is the mismanagement of the LOI, but that does not alone explain what we're seeing from this specific team. it has good enough players to not look like that. and this manager is taking a pretty penny to be as lost as I, as someone who has never managed a team, would be.

absolutely fúcking appalling, and the FAI didn't even have the balls to be done with it a few games ago.

none of it is fit for purpose, and Didi was spot on last night. the fans have been patient in continuing to support the team, but even they will tire of it.

theoneeyedman

Kenny is a dead man walking at this stage, and I tho I he finally realizes it. He looked broken after the final whistle last night, he reminded me of seeing Keegan walking off after that defeat for England when he resigned.

He doesn't deserve abuse though. He's an honest guy promoted to a position past his abilities, by an organization that's not fit for purpose. He's been given every opportunity, but performances and results have been getting worse with every window.

Stand aside, or see out the remainder of the gsmes for the sake of it, but it serves no purpose at this stage. Where the FAI go from here I dunno, I don't trust them.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235980#Comment_121235980

They actually didn't have massive footballing structures. They were terribly behind the other teams at their level. They have copped on now.

Thats where the two are similar because both were stuck in the belief that players would magically appear and be shocked when they would miss their targets by a long shot.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236259#Comment_121236259

English teams have been at the top of European football since the game was created.

I've genuinely no idea what you're talking about. There is NO comparison and never has been between the two countries footballing ability/resources/structures.

Maybe style of football in comparison to continental/Latin teams you could say is similar but that's because we were a feeder pool to their football structures so would make sense our national team then had a similar style of play to theirs.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235511#Comment_121235511

I wouldn't say we don't have the players. Not like they're all playing at a poor level. Fair enough they're not playing for top PL teams and the championship is a second tier league.

Just go through the Greece team and most of their squad is playing in Greece or Turkey. Which is the equivalent of playing in Scotland and we know the opinion of Irish fans on the standard in Scotland.

They had three players playing in the top five leagues in Europe starting last night. Mavropanos who starts CB, Vlachodimos their first choice keeper, and Tsimikas. They all play in the PL and have a combined two appearences in the league this season.

Yet Greece made Ireland look like an amateur team twice this year cause we've got an amateur management team who can't react to in-game situations. I'd back this Greece team to finish second. They could more or less seal it with a win against Holland on Tuesday and France are qualified so how interested will they be in the final qualifier. They play both at home which Greece are tough to play against.