Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

noodler

I don't know the details, was he charged with something?

I'll look a fool if someone has more but I am increasingly wary of destroying people's character or job prospects unless something has been proven.

AllGunsBlazing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691559#Comment_121691559

Damien Duff enters the chat.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693019#Comment_121693019

accusations were enough to bin off Rory Gallagher’s position as Derry GAA manager. I’d say this will probably kill off Lennon’s prospects. It’s too big of an elephant in the room. Some journalist now has the right to ask him about it in the unveiling press conference because a TD has raised it.

Edit - forgot she’s an ex TD, not sure that will make a difference.

McFly85

It does really feel like the FAI aren’t huge fans of appointing Lennon, but there’s nobody else currently available that will do the job at that salary and with the stipulation of being based in Ireland.

I know they wanted to have a new manager in place ahead of the friendlies in March, but with the first competitive games in September, would they hold off and set a new target of getting someone in early summer?

athlone99

Given the difference in resources, one could argue that Kenny did a better job in qualifying for Europe with Dundalk than Lennon doing well with Celtic in Europe. .....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691578#Comment_121691578

Why wouldnt the FAI want the national manager to be based in Ireland? They clearly want to link all the underage teams all the way up to the senior team. So having the senior manager in Ireland at least a few days a week is a good idea. It does sound ridiculous when the CEO isnt full time hear either but asking the Senior manager to be in Dublin say 3 days a week its mad. All our future internationals are coming through the LOI so why shouldnt the manager be here looking at those future internationals?

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692368#Comment_121692368

None of them have given any proper interest in job

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693567#Comment_121693567

I really don’t think it should be an absolute requirement. The vast majority of players playing u21 and up are going to be in England anyway, and I’m really not sure what benefit there is to basing him in a country his players aren’t in.

It would be mad to miss out on someone because of a pretty arbitrary rule about where they’re located.

The Davestator

Roy, Harry, Sam.... Jesus. Can the FAI not do some proper work and find a manager doing good stuff at a lower level? Get on the phone and ask Brighton who they have lined up to replace DeZerbi and appoint him. Can't be much worse than the has been's being touted

LowOdour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693567#Comment_121693567

While the idea of linking the underage teams with the senior team sounds ideal, the reality is much different.

Poyet was on the radio last night saying his job wasn't to play the best players, it was to play the players who could win the match. It was all about winning.

We are at such a low ebb that winning games is probably the most important thing for next qualification. Brand of football, youth structure etc kinda goes out the window for a couple of years depressing in many ways

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693567#Comment_121693567

Travelling over to Ireland a few days a month to complete commercial engagements, attend meetings, prepare facilities and watch some LOI games is fine.

Thinking that being based in Ireland to exhaustively attend LOI games as a requirement is an unrealistic view of the role imo. The vast bulk of the relevant national player pool are plying their trade in the U.K. As for 'linking in with underage' teams, what do you think should be involved there? Do you imagine the Senior Manager attending underage camps, going to all of the underage games, etc? Their time would be better spent attending academy and U21 games in the U.K. involving Irish players, going around scouting Irish pros playing in competitive games at League One level and above, etc.

There's a lot of supremely unrealistic chat going on around the role imo, even after the Kenny experiment failed.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693645#Comment_121693645

Any manager in the U.K. who is in line to replace De Zerbi is not available to us. We cannot compete wages wise with Premier League and even most Championship positions.

Lennon and Carsley are strong candidates relative to what is available. Either would be an excellent appointment when you take account of the state we have been left in following the failed Kenny regime.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693645#Comment_121693645

There is no evidence that Roy, Harry or Sam are of any interest to the FAI in filling the position. The evidence is to the contrary.

brightons budget for filling a future management role is about 4.5 million a year higher than the FAI’s budget.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693772#Comment_121693772

I don’t think we’re in a bad state at all tbh, and we’re in a far better state than we were as a team than when Mick left.

The things Kenny was bad at weren’t fundamental things that the team will have to spend time unlearning, his lack of tactical acumen and failure to read in-game changes and react were his major faults.

We need to find a midfielder, and if we do, I think we should be looking to expect a noticeable improvement after the WC campaign.

The Davestator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693835#Comment_121693835

My point is that Brighton and others can find decent managers that nobody has heard of. Why cant the FAI? There is no rush, put anyone in charge for the friendlies and get it right instead of appointing a no mark, has been like Lennon

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693879#Comment_121693879

Our ranking is disimproved, we're not involved in at least a playoff process for the Euros for the first time since 2008 and our consequent seeding landscape for future tournaments is more difficult.

The FAI still doesn't have a shirt sponsor and corporate governance continues to involve issues that create hesitancy from a political perspective to deploy previously agreed funding.

This is objectively as bad as it has been in over a half century, in terms of the combination of poor performance on the pitch allied to difficulties from the association governance and funding perspective.

Father Hernandez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693901#Comment_121693901

Very hard to disagree with this.

We have a very young team full of potential but potential alone won't qualify us for tournaments. Ferguson looks like he'll be a top player but he's nowhere near that yet. Outside of him, we're bang average albeit with a good crop of young players who could turn out to play at the top, top level.

The last 2 qualifiers, we've been out of the running by the halfway stage. Our ranking has gone down as you say making it more difficult for getting a relatively easier draw.

Our next appointment is crucial.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693895#Comment_121693895

in reality if you want to make an appointment like Ange at Celtic, Iraola at Bournemouth and De Zerbi you have to offer more than 600k max a year because a far flung appointment will have to move to the UK (or Ireland) to do the job which means the manager has to uproot himself and his family. And I don’t think the list of good managers who are willing to uproot their family to the UK and who want the Ireland job is a list that exists.

the 42 wrote an article that pretty much said what you are saying (even name checked de zerbi) but didn’t offer a single name that could be targeted, thereby making a fairly pointless article on my opinion.

The Davestator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693949#Comment_121693949

Ian Evatt? Doing good stuff with Bolton, plays decent football.

Surely worth a phone call?

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693979#Comment_121693979

Yeah, never heard of him before but seems like a worthy suggestion going on Wikipedia

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693901#Comment_121693901

In terms of football, I would disagree that it’s the worst it’s ever been. Our ranking has dropped but it’s not the lowest rank we’ve ever had, and playoff wise we sort of lucked into 2 playoffs that we wouldn’t have gotten normally for 2016 and 2020 - so not getting one for 2024, especially when we got a nightmare draw, is hardly the sky falling in. But I do think that the nations league is something we definitely need to focus on.

We have young players that will be the core of the team for the next few campaigns, hopefully we can find some players in areas that were light in to give us a good chance of qualifying for 2028.

I agree with the concerns in governance though, the FAI have dropped the ball on a few things now, but it’s difficult to say that it’s being managed worse than the previous regime who hid that they had put the organisation millions upon millions in debt.

POKERKING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694018#Comment_121694018

You have changed pretty quickly! Hardly a huge amount between him and Barry murphy and at least barry murphy is irish so will have some sort of domestic league understanding.

Graham Coughlin may aswell be an option now and I bet if they had of beat United on Sunday he would have been mentioned here.

~Rebel~

If we’re going down to mid-table League Two I think I’d rather just appoint Stephen Bradley, who at least was offered League One jobs, has success behind him and is actively invested in our team.

Far from ideal, and I don’t think the LOI is really enough experience for the job, but I think the same can be said for League Two.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694172#Comment_121694172

A fairly big amount in my opinion. Bolton are a much bigger club doing far better in the league than rochdale were under Barry Murphy . If rochdale were second or even finished in the playoffs in league one under him I’d be thinking far better about his prospects. But didn’t they finish at best 13th or something?

pjohnson

Ollie Horgan?

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694214#Comment_121694214

The amazing thing to me about these thought experiments is when people are getting to the Barry Murphy, Graham Coughlin, Stephen Bradley set of names and it doesn't explain why Neil Lennon or Steve Bruce would be a solid outcome. People just want the mystery box imo.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694283#Comment_121694283

Actually it was 19th in league one in his first season and relegated the next season. I just don’t see that kind of a record being one thats even close to putting you in the frame for managing Ireland.

McFly85

There’s definitely an element of having more experience working against you in some cases alright. With Bruce and Lennon, they both feel like their at a point in their careers where you know what you’re going to get with them, they’re not actively out there in management, and it’s like they’re just sort of considered because they’re available more than anything else.

Murphy, Coughlin, Bradley are all young enough managers currently working and doing well given the level they’re at - and the level they’re at is probably low enough that they could be tempted away to take the Ireland job.

It could be considered more risky alright, but it might be more in line with the type of manager the FAI want. And if that’s the case, now is probably a better time to take that risk, see if it works out and if not get someone else in for the Euro campaign. I’m sure there’ll be some Lennon/Bruce types available then if the FAI feel the need to go that way.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694297#Comment_121694297

Yeah, I mean i'd have Lennon way over Bradley or lads like Coughlin for sure - i'm just saying if we're including lads from mid-table league two sides, then you kinda have to open it to a very successful LOI fella.

You'd love to have a sneak peek at the names they've contacted to see what sort of profile they're looking towards, and if there's any consistency in it. Would love to know if John Eustace was contacted for instance.

POKERKING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694366#Comment_121694366

And hes doing well with City now. Im just saying as up and comers go esp for irish coaches, if English Ian Evatt is an option then Barry Murphy is too.

https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-41299726.html

Anyway I will say no more on Barry Murphy, im not totally for him I just think given the lack of alternatives he should be an option. I wont mention him again.

POKERKING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694297#Comment_121694297

Im not against either Lennon or Bruce. Lennons checkered history with domestic violence as outlined above might go against him but I wouldnt be too disappointed if he got it.

Id actually be happy with Big Sam but doubt we could afford him. Bruce does nothing for me though but again not the end of the world if he got it.

LuckyLloyd

The thing about the Ireland job is it hasn’t proven a spring board to better jobs elsewhere over the past 20 years, even in cases where it has been successful. O’Neill and McCarthy didn’t access jobs that wouldn’t have been available to them before their tenure.

Kerr ended up taking the Faroe Islands job, Staunton went to Darlington and Trapp retired. Kenny remains to be seen, but my expectations are Ireland will stand out as the pinnacle of his career.

We’re either getting a “has been” like Lennon or Bruce, etc or a “never was” with an exceptional coaching profile like Carsley. Sure we could probably get a League One / LOI Manager but in all likelihood you’re just putting them in a position to fail before they go back to whatever level we plucked them from.

There was a time where we could have gotten the equivalent of McKenna at Ipswich as opposed to Trapp or O’Neill. Those days have passed. Realism is required.

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694059#Comment_121694059

I find a lot of your points here to be slightly delusional.

Things are worse because of our results and lack of involvement in the business end of qualifying/play offs.

Your view about previous managers being 'lucky' is quite an aside

How could you disagree that it's the worst it's ever been and then not back it up?

~Rebel~

Ultimately, much more than whatever state we’re in, the money is always gonna be the biggest factor in attracting a manager. If we were offering the money we gave Trap, or MON, or Mick, there would be a lot more names in the mix.

The average Championship wage is 1 million per year. We’re offering half that. Ergo, we’re getting no one who could credibly get a Championship job.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694722#Comment_121694722

Our current ranking: 60

Our worst ranking: 70, under Trap, I believe.

So our ranking is objectively not the worst.

Regarding playoffs - absolutely, 4th place finish was poor and rightly Kenny got sacked as we were third seeds. In 2016, we were seeded second, finished third, but we were fortunate though that third was good enough for a playoff that time. Our First Nations league we got relegated and were fortunate again that they redid the format which meant we didn’t get relegated and ended up being given a playoff for the euros(after finishing outside of the traditional playoff spots again).

So I don’t really see a marked difference, more a progressive decline over the last 8-10 years.

And on governance. The FAI have struggled to get a sponsor, have had issues with the executive and funding, but have us on a plan to be debt free in 6/7 years. The previous regime was one man’s personal fiefdom who mortgaged the future of Irish football for the sole reason of personal enrichment. So I would say there that it’s definitely not the worst it’s ever been.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694541#Comment_121694541

From reading up in the “story” it’s tabloid nonsense. It was never even reported to the police. Just a scolded lover getting revenge.

YTM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693643#Comment_121693643

Would be a stupid idea to overlook a manager because he doesn't want to live in Ireland. Do they expect whomever it is to report to Abbotstown every week and do a 40+ hr shift.

It's also 2024. We've got all this magical technology that now allows people to do work without even having to be on the same continent. Jonathan Hill should be used to it since he mostly does his job from the UK and flys into Dublin every now and then. Same should work for the senior coach since most of our players are based there.

If multi billion dollar companies can get stuff done with teams that consist of workers from around the globe then the FAI can survive with the senior coach and underage coaches mostly working remotely.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695003#Comment_121695003

I think the whole living in Ireland thing is a misnomer - they didn’t say “based in Ireland”, they said “have a base in Ireland”, which is a totally different thing and quite fair enough. Should have an expectation to pop into headquarters for a couple days a month for meetings, with an office to work out of.

The Davestator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694785#Comment_121694785

It's less than half the work though!

POKERKING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694971#Comment_121694971

Fair enough i dont know the ins and outs of it just going on whats posted here.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695159#Comment_121695159

Your job is your job. They can’t take another job, so the time is irrelevant.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693643#Comment_121693643

No it shouldnt be an absolute requirement but a couple of days a week in Dublin is reasonable. I assume with Kenny there was also peer to peer learning from the senior team all the way down to the underage coaches and staff. Thats why having someone in my opinion be here 2/3 days a week is worth while.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693662#Comment_121693662

So we go back to what hasnt worked in the main for the last 30 years? We are at such a low ebb so why not try do something different? Going back to 10 men behind the ball and trying to nick a goal in the last 10 doesnt interest me and i wont be watching it. Kenny tried and failed to do something differently, whether that was him, the players or a combination only time will tell with a new manager. I also think going forward we will be fast tracking U21s into the first team as Kenny did and having the 21s and senior team playing in a similar fashion then eases that transition. Its why England, France, Luxembourg have become successful/massively improved. Kenny got massive leeway because he wanted to do it differently to the previous 3 managers, a new manager coming in and going back to conceding the pitch and parking on the edge of our box will turn fans off quicker than anything in my opinion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693758#Comment_121693758

No, as i said above, its the peer to peer learning. having the senior manager who in theory is more experienced/more highly regarded than the underage managers and coaches share his learnings and experience can only be a good thing. As i said 2/3 days a week in Dublin should be the ask, dont forget its likely that the analysts and stats guys may be FAI staff based in Dublin so i would prefer in person meetings more than once a month. In my opinion the young players playing LOI are ahead of U21 and academy players in general. Most who go over after playing 1st team football in the LOI get fast tracked quicker than players who were over in the UK longer.

YTM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695073#Comment_121695073

That would be a given but if they except someone to do it a couple of days a week rather than a month then they might as well ring up the likes of Stephen Bradley or Damien Duff who are already Ireland based.

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694842#Comment_121694842

What about the rest of trap's reign? What about during Mons reign? What about during micks reign?

What about trajectory? It's not just ten places worse, it's the worse seeding.

What about actually qualifying?

What about being competitive at the business end of qualifying?

What about being hard to beat?

Why do you keep saying getting a play off was lucky in 2016?

Our results were better so our seeding was better so we got a play off. Then we won the play off, then we performed well at a tournament.

Your spin that this is a normal time is bizarre.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695395#Comment_121695395

The Senior management of any team isn’t there to help coach younger players. He’s there to get the best out of the senior players he has available to himself. This isn’t club football.

Ferris_Bueller

Second Captains made a good point that in all the time the FAI have had to consider potential replacements for Kenny, they've essentially come up with a shortlist of lads it would take you 5 mins to come up with down in the pub. Carsley, Lennon, Hughton, Keane, Barry etc are not exactly outside the box thinking. You'd wonder what the likes of Hill and Canham are bringing to the role if this is all they can come up with (same could be said for Gleeson with the women's job, although she deserves a crack after the results she achieved).

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695883#Comment_121695883

I said literally nothing about this being completely normal. There is plenty of work to be done with the Irish football team, I just find the idea that it’s “objectively the worst it’s been in 50 years” to be complete hyperbole.

Our national team and association are going through transitional phases - we have a young team, and an association that has to deal with the complete mismanagement by the previous regime. Things aren’t perfect but there plenty of potential there if we can do things well.

Regarding the playoffs, I was just highlighting that not getting a playoff for 2024 is a poor metric to judge the team on, because how we’ve gotten to playoffs has been changing ever since the nations league came along. Euro 2016 was the only qualifiers we’ll ever get where finishing as low as third gets a playoff place. 2020 had a re-jig of the nations league after we got relegated - again, fortunate. Our group finishing positions is a better metric, and have mainly been trending downwards - something we definitely need to fix.

I am happier with where we are now than where we were around 2018, with Delaney still in charge and an old, directionless national team going nowhere, but that doesn’t mean I think things are all rosy.

TheCitizen

Is there an FAI meeting today with an announcement of some kind expected?

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695974#Comment_121695974

Maybe they’ve spent the last few months approaching out of the norm managers and been told thanks but no thanks and this is all that’s left.

PTH2009

Can't imagine Sammie Szmodics will be committing to us if we have an interm management in place for the March games

Won't be the only one I'd say

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696001#Comment_121696001

There’s a board meeting today that they were targeting to announce a new manager, but I think at most we’ll get an update on the process.