Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262170#Comment_122262170

Think given his last two job performances people won't be in a rush to call him. Might need the Ireland job if he wants another UK club job.

He was my first choice (being realistic). I don’t think he would be a popular appointment nor ever would have been.

He was a bit unlucky at AFCON, 2 90+ minute factual goals to eliminate them.

I don’t think it matters who we appoint, it’s going to be unpopular.

NITRO95

I said it months ago and I'm stunned he hasn't been talked about more considering he's a former international and has much more experience than JoS, Mark Kennedy was available until recently. By all accounts he had his Lincoln team playing some good football. He just recently took the Swindon job. I'm not sure why he was never considered

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262311#Comment_122262311

Think he'd have been a really popular appointment 8-10 years ago. He unfortunately plays with a style that no longer works. Had an awful time of it with Ghana, even before the AFCON - the only half decent results they got were against teams ranked ~100 places below them, and even against that calibre of team they dropped a few points, and rescued a few in dying seconds.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262327#Comment_122262327

That's an odd one alright… seems the profile of guy we probably should be going for. We're basically in the market for up-and-comers who have not yet 'made it' but have shown real promise, or lads looking for a retirement job.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262327#Comment_122262327

wouldn’t have the CV.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262428#Comment_122262428

Ideally, yeah… if we end up with JOS, then Kennedy will have looked a much better and more experienced option (as, again as we keep saying, would O'Shea's own assistant). Can only hope and pray the FAI have something up their sleeve.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262448#Comment_122262448

as a coach yes but oshea’s career would be exposed to high performance culture far more than Kennedy’s mediocre career. Mediocre given he was a teenage prodigy.

Augme

At what point does consistently failing as a coach become a better barometer than being a great footballer? I'm always amazed how long people like Lampaed, Gerrard, and Rooney can are stilled offered jobs as managers despite having very very little success at it over a extended length of time.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262608#Comment_122262608

kind of off topic to the point I’m making. The point I’m making to repeat is Oshea was exposed to a really good football education in his career. More than Kennedy. I think kennedy was at city in the drinking club years. Different type of education. An education you can still learn from but not ideal. That’s all.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262618#Comment_122262618

I know and I did delete your quote after I posted it. It was your post that sparked the idea but I was asking it as more of an abstract thought and not really directed to you.

As for your point, I do agree. JOS was exposed to a much better footballing environment. It's just a shame none of that exposure has translated into him being a competent head coach.

CalamariFritti

IMO there just isnt a whole lot any manager can do with that squad at this moment. And I thought the notion a bit ridiculous that JOS was playing for a job the other day.

What was he or any other manager going to do in Portugal? It's sad but the reality is Ireland simply cannot measure herself against someone like Portugal atm. Especially in a pre-Euro friendly where you're a sparring partner essentially. Like you're hardly going to kick the **** out of Portugal just to give an impression are you?

To be honest Kenny was probably a good manager for the sort of squad Ireland has. To be in around just about qualifying or not is probably the level they're at. Any expectations beyond that are a bit delusional IMO. It's sad and I wish it wasnt so but IMO this is the reality. At best Ireland is a young forward oriented squad looking for a fresh start and a new chance. You want a manger who's in the same space. No seasoned experienced manager is going to waste himself at this situation unless hes looking for semi retirement and even then he'll be looking for €€€.

And with that in mind JOS is a good honest choice too.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262641#Comment_122262641

Kenny was nowhere near ‘in and around qualifying or not’ though I agree that is the realistic mission here for a new manager.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262641#Comment_122262641

What was he or any other manager going to do in Portugal?

Kenny was unlucky not to beat Portugal and got a point off them in qualification.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262663#Comment_122262663

Yes but that was a competitive match. Different thing altogether. We weren't going to play hard kick the crap out of Portugal just to leave an impression in this friendly.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262677#Comment_122262677

It’s far more impressive to do it in a competitive game. I’ve never heard someone make the argument the other way round.

Portugal took it fairly handy the other night and destroyed us.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262588#Comment_122262588

The job is being a coach though. Being someone who's spent time within a high performance environment (not creating it, just a beneficiary of it) is all well and good for general awareness of standards and professionalism - but it's much more important that a manager has more experience and awareness and knowledge of tactical setups, moves, and countermoves. O'Shea has none of that yet. Not his fault, he's just never even been the main assistant at a club, let alone actually managed a game at any level. At international level especially, the coaching experience and awareness is far more important - these players professionalism is being shaped by their clubs, not over a few days every few months.

As nigh on every ex-player-turned-manager has said, being a player you're getting the benefit of these things, but ultimately you're selfish. You're far more focused on your own performance and career, cause, of course you are, that's your job. As Duff said recently, he remembers some drills and stuff that he liked from being with Jose and Ranieri etc, but learned far more about actual coaching - the how and why of everything - as an assistant to Brendan Rodgers at Celtic, and on the job through experience.

O'Shea has a big leg up on most aspiring managers because of his career - but he is still just an aspiring manager at this stage, with mostly short stints as 2nd or 3rd assistant coach in unsuccessful teams to draw from. It would be great to have someone in the dugout who has actually been in the situation of having to change a game at any level at all.

pgj2015

Id love to see Ireland play the way Serbia are playing V England, very tough to play against and fighting hard for every ball. That is the style of play we need to have to compete against the stronger teams, which is most teams now. Some of our players dont care and dont try hard enough, no guts and they are weak mentally.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122267078#Comment_122267078

Well and then there is the fact that practically any Balkan team especially Serbia is full with technically gifted players who can zip the ball around hard first time no lose touches no problem. Its after getting a bit better recently but we had years where half our players were almost afraid of getting the ball with anyone somewhat near them.

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122267143#Comment_122267143

Better?

Our results have worsened considerably without any noticeable improvement in the style.

CalamariFritti

What do I know. I think were not quite as timid in our passing as we used to be.

Augme

The latest from Willy doesn't sound too promising.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/i-can-consider-myself-working-in-georgia-for-the-next-years-willy-sagnol-pours-cold-water-over-ireland-move/a1847163244.html

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271429#Comment_122271429

Don't worry the Peterborough United chairman is gonna save Irish football. His master plan will likely be hire Darren Ferguson, sack him after awhile and then rehire him when things aren't going smooth.

And then repeat that process three or four times hoping it works. Must have sacked and rehired him at Peterborough about four times now.

Forgot to add the tweet

https://twitter.com/DMAC102/status/1802083099741766126

TheCitizen

This is what happens when decisions keep being put off and you allow problems and issues to drag on and on and on; you get Darragh MacAnthony offering “advice”.

HalloweenJack

No actual advice, just whingeing.

He could have invested all that P'boro money in Irish football over the years if he was so concerned about the state of it.

tigger123

I'm loving the Euros, but I do find it quite depressing watching countries with similar populations as ourselves qualify consistently, and then go on to play decent football.

noodler

Whats he suggesting he'd do?

As in he's not a manager, is it an FAI upper echelon role he's pumping for?

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273668#Comment_122273668

He's an attention seeking blowhard. He's another JD but likes to act like he's Conor McGregor on twitter. One post that gives a quick summary of him was this:

He has hired Darren Ferguson four times. Every other appointment he's made had been a disaster. He's also been daft enough to sack Ferguson several times & have to go back to him cap in hand.

Peterborough are moving money round a lot because of some very high interest loans they [ he ] signed off on.

He's fallen out in a costly way with one half of a Canadian investment duo that he had to bring in because he's lost a lot of his own money.

The stadium plans are bogged in planning because he keeps getting wrong side of the people making that decision thinking he can shout his way to what he wants.

But mainly he has re hired the same manager four times. He needs to shut up and go away, and get his own house in order.

..…

Also believe the Canadian investment duo aren't involved in the club anymore either. FAI might as well bring back JD if they have any notions of even taking advice from Darragh.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273581#Comment_122273581

it was quite noticeable how good a brand of football Slovakia played in the first half yesterday. In the second half they were more what I’d expect from Ireland in fairness. Last ditch defense helped by Doku and Lukaku being wasteful.

The Rooster

Doesn’t improve our position, but it’s pretty certain that if Albania were in our group instead of us, they wouldn’t have qualified either.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273581#Comment_122273581

Look up how many full time coaches/academy staff are employed in those countries, then compare it to Ireland. You'll find you'll run out of fingers and toes counting in countries with similar population but won't even make it off one hand in Ireland.

PTH2009

Looking like the rest of the Nations League tickets for the home games will be sold as a 3 match package

tom1ie

Apologies if this has already been discussed or if there a different thread covering this question, but do we actually have any young top quality players coming through playing or being monitored by top clubs?

If we don’t- why is that?

Is it that there aren’t enough football clubs in Ireland to get kids involved in football as opposed to GAA or something?

Or is it that the training is just not good enough at underage level?

I mean Croatia has a pop of 3.58m and they are constantly qualifying for major tournaments.

We have a pop of 5.1m and we are nowhere near qualifying for any tournament and ranked 60th in the world.

Albania pop 2.78m qualified for euro 2024

Georgia pop 3.7m qualified for euro 2024

Norway pop 5.4m ranked 47th in world rankings

Finland 5.5m ranked 61st in world rankings

Slovakia 5.7m qualified for euro 2024

The closest country I can find in football comparable terms is Finland.
Similar population, one place in the difference at world rankings.
Interesting we play them in October and November in the nations league.
But why the hell have we no talent coming through?

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280608#Comment_122280608

A simple answer is we relied on uk clubs to produce talent for us and the grand parent rule rather than invest at home. The time to invest properly was in the 90s after the 2 world cups.

There has been little to no real investment in sport here never mind football and the competition from the GAA is another huge factor

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280742#Comment_122280742

I get what you’re saying but the raw talent must still be there waiting to be developed no?
I mean our population has increased yet the talent we would have exported to England seems to have dried up completely?
My understanding is kids up to U16s can still go to the UK to train with clubs, but I suppose what happens after they turn 17? Where do they go?
Actually should it not mean we have top talent returning from the UK to LOI clubs at 17?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280805#Comment_122280805

ok good info there.
When you say underage LOI teams is that like the shamrock rovers academy and st pats academy etc?
When you say the contact hours in Ireland vs Croatia would be night and day what do ya mean?
Do you mean the U8s for example would be training 4-5 times a week for a couple of hours a night in Croatia vs whatever it is here?

trashcan

St Pats academy has had some good young players come through over the past couple of years. James Abankwah went to Italy, Sam Curtis and Adam Murphy to the UK. Mason Melia almost certain to go to the UK as well once he’s 18(has signed a contract with Pats until he’s 19 I think, which was a good bit of business by the club.)

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280830#Comment_122280830

Yes kids train more in other countries compared to Ireland. When Barry Maguire joined Limerick he was on the LOI podcast once and said he was stunned to see 16/17 year olds train two nights a week when kids at U10s in Holland trained four times a week.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280608#Comment_122280608

It's becoming much harder for players to be given the chance to break through in England.

It we gelled a squad from primarily LOI players over the past 3 yrs, would the results have been any worse? Suspect that will be scoffed at.

Would a higher likelihood of playing LOI opening a path to international football, encourage more to get involved?

Personally, I would be just as happy to back a mainly LOI team for Ireland and would keep a closer eye on the LOI as a result.

Mad to think it could happen. More likely to have the one token player named in a wider squad announcement and dropped out of the final cut.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280893#Comment_122280893

well I don't really see the argument as LOI 11 vs a championship/ league one 11, I’m just interested to find out why the top class talent we have produced in the past has just pretty much disappeared and there doesn’t seem to be much prospect coming through.

So far the plausible reason for this is we just don’t train enough in Ireland vs other countries.
Surely this is an easy fix no?

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280914#Comment_122280914

Yeah, like, the first step should be massively increasing the number of professional full time youth coaches in the country. We've a tiny number compared to other countries of our size (or smaller even) - but that requires money, and our national association is not only broke, but hugely in debt. So while it's an easy fix to see, it's a hard fix to implement without cash.

As you say, the raw material is likely there at a young age, but by the time our kids at 16, 17, 18 move to countries with better infrastructures, they're already miles behind their peers, so are playing catch up right from the beginning.

CalamariFritti

I'm only a blow in but I'm here now for over 20 years and from what I can see simply comparing ourselves to other countries with similar size populations isnt the full picture.

For starters it seems obvious that football is only the 3rd ranked sport in the country with the top 2 spots solidly occupied by the two major GAA games. Not just at adult level but all the way from the ground up. I could be wrong but at school level both primary and secondary it seems to be almost entirely GAA. Outside schools there seem to be some decent club football structures but predominantly around urban football hotspots. In rural areas club level seems to be again almost entirely GAA. Clearly this puts a large dent into the talent pool and I think it makes comparisons with similar size populations a little invalid.

To me it looks like this talent pool disadvantage was partly compensated for in the past with players who didnt really grow up in Ireland but were born to Irish parents in the UK. As Irish people no longer emigrate in large numbers and former emigrants are now in the 2nd and 3rd generation this source of players seems to be drying up.

Going back to GAA it's clear that there is large pool of children and teens with excellent sporting talent and GAA also shows that it is absolutely possible to have great support structures in place nurturing such talent. It just doesn't seem to be there for football at a comparable level.

Soccer is not going to topple or even make a dent into GAA to widen their own talent pool by the looks of it. People probably wouldnt want that anyway since GAA is very important to them and Irish culture and identity.

However there is a sport that appears to have an even smaller talent pool available to them and has reached in the adult game absolute world class level. Rugby. So whats different in rugby compared to soccer? I havent a clue I'm not familiar at all how rugby ticks at kids, teen & youth level, what club structures they have etc but they must be doing something right.

Could soccer somehow emulate what rugby does?

~Rebel~

It's not really comparable with rugby… the total global player pool of rugby players is miniscule compared to football, with only a small handful of countries taking it seriously, and fewer still who treat it as their primary sport. And the larger a player pool is, the tighter the margins are to hit that top level. Far fewer kids play rugby than football in Ireland, with a significant number of those making the top level coming from a handful of private schools.

What works with rugby wouldn't make a dent in football because the standards you have to meet are just higher, and the competition for a career is much fiercer (resulting of course in far higher financial rewards in football for that lucky % who make it).

artanevilla

Rugby has a lot of money invested and centralized contracts tied to the four provinces.

The IRFU import world class players from the likes of New Zealand and South Africa in order to supplement the provincial teams, in turn these players can play for Ireland because to play international rugby for a country, all you need to do is know generally where the country is on the map.

This system is a complete non-runner for football.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281232#Comment_122281232

excellent post and well put.
So lack of underage full time coaches is a massive issue, but I haven’t really ever heard this been spoken of by former players, current players, the fai even, if they were willing to highlight their own shortcomings but highlight that they need more money.

But I’m saying that, how do other national football associations make money? For example how do the Croatian association make enough money to employ many more full time coaches?

Do the Croatian government just fund them more?

adaminho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282042#Comment_122282042

if I recall correctly it's way more expensive to do a coaching course in Ireland than most other countries.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282406#Comment_122282406

ok now thats interesting.
So where does the money that you pay for the courses go? To the FAI?

Pauliedragon

Thing too with the granny rule was the likes of Kibane for example grew up "irish" his parents were the generation that would've been treated as pariahs. He turned down a call up for England youths. Also as mentioned above we relied on sending our young talent to be developed by English clubs when all players were British or Irish. When the PL went global players from all over the world arrived and there was much more competition.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282042#Comment_122282042

sure they’ve loads of prize money from tournament qualifying and performances that Ireland wouldn’t have.

Someone else said the cost of coaching courses which is true.

But more important in my eyes is if you want to use an Astro pitch in Ireland you almost certainly have to stump up cash. It’s not like that in the European country where I live, decent astro pitches are there available for you in every school and freely accessible from the street normally. I assume my adopted country isn’t an outlier and most European countries are the same.

It’s a big factor in my opinion

HalloweenJack

Good point. Out of curiosity, where are you?

Where I am in Spain, it's €3.50 per person for an hour.

When I was in the Czech Republic over a decade ago, it worked out about €2.

I know a lad who pays £10 in Edinburgh.

When I played back home (pre-2011), it was a fiver for indoor football. No astro pitches where we were. Think any time I did play on astro back home, it was at least a tenner.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282684#Comment_122282684

I’m in Poland. I don’t know how much it is. But I do know for sure that good quality free pitches are easily had. There are plenty of paid pitches aswell.

Throw in that there is no futsal culture in Ireland and it’s no puzzle why Irish players aren’t recognized for technical prowess

LowOdour

Interesting the discussion on this thread about younger players moving abroad. One player who showed real promise in LOI and moved to Uk was Ross Tierney.

I see he has made the move back to Ireland

https://www.the42.ie/ross-tierney-bohemians-6414722-Jun2024/