Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852676#Comment_117852676

You have it backwards ,

It's what you do with grassroots and youth that have the effect on the Senior team not the other way around ,Where do you think these players come from ,

I don't really care about how passionate Kenny is bottom line is he can't get results and that's all that matters ,he has failed at his job ,

Same things where said when Jack Charlton got the job look how that one turned out , (not comparing Sam to Jack )

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852325#Comment_117852325

Excellent post. Literally the approach that should be taken.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852794#Comment_117852794

How can people say "positive football " the whole idea of football is to get results

There is nothing positive about losing to Luxembourg & drawing with Azerbaijan in our own back yard ,

We have fallen so far that people think a few nice passes while getting 1 point in these games is "positive football" holy Jesus stop thew world and let me off ,

Again remember our only goals have come from CB with headers ...basically when we abandon the "positive football" & just play to our strengths

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852880#Comment_117852880

You'd have to say the argument that our players are poor is a valid one.

As I said before the results so far after 15 games are what you would expect of a technically inferior team trying to play continental teams at their own game.

In the end we just seem confused about what is the right forward. I don't think the FAI even knows.

One thing for sure, trying to play superior passing teams off the pitch seem absurd in the cold light of day and is getting us no where results wise.

Unless we suddenly have a more gifted pool of players appear or some of these lads kick on in a big way at their clubs why would that ever change?

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852733#Comment_117852733

I dont think I do. Grassroots is not professional. Kids want to play like their hero's. If they and indeed volunteer coaches at grassroots see the senior team playing long ball then that's what they'll replicate.

Kenny is trying to tie all the underage setups together to a similar ethos. It won't happen overnight and I've no doubt Kennys not going to be the man in charge if/when we see the proper fruits of his labour. But we need to start and we need to start at the top imo.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852880#Comment_117852880

We were played off the park by Georgia under the last manager.

That hasnt happened in this campaign. We have created chances in every game and they're being missed. All you can do in a game is create a few chances.

Theres also no players being left out who could make a difference.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852102#Comment_117852102

It’s all well and good saying we were a goal away under Mick, but that was one of the worst campaigns I’ve ever seen from Ireland. Struggled to wins against Gibraltar, who are comfortably worse than Luxembourg or Azerbaijan.

Managed a draw away in Denmark in what was becoming a trademark turgid watch.

He also had the good fortune of Switzerland and Denmark dropping unexpected points.

He then criminally had the team sit back to protect a point in Georgia when a win was would have put us in a massive position.

We then predictably didn’t get the win that was required.

Whatever about Kennys success in implementing it, the idea is right. Going back to spending ludicrous amounts on lads who don’t give a shyte about sustainable improvement isn’t the way to go.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852931#Comment_117852931

We have been trying to play a passing game. OK maybe not passing others off the pitch which is an exaggeration but there is far more emphasise on keeping the ball on the ground and playing out from the back.

Against Azerbaijan it didn't work for 60 minutes and then in absolute desperation we started firing balls in to the box from the wings.

It was successful in the end because we actually scored.

I think there is a lesson there.

Results matter in international football. Style comes next.

What good is style when losing to minnows Azerbaijan and Luxembourg.

Also, the SK so called change is style is poor to say the least.

We'll be changing style soon when SK gets fired.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852926#Comment_117852926

But again you can't just turn it on. If you're main plan is to play long ball then even when better players emerge you're just going to get slightly improved results but still playing long ball.

Where as if you continue down the path of controlled technical football then you get the best return out of superior players as they emerge.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852994#Comment_117852994

I'm not advocating hit and hope. I just think he's gone too far the other direction for us.

We only did what got us the goal in the last 15 to 20 minutes which was going long and whipping in balls.

I think he needs to take something from that.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852957#Comment_117852957

And yet we almost qualified automatically and I believe Mick would have gotten us through the playoff.

Struggling to wins is better than struggling to draws/losses. A draw away to a top seed is miles away from a draw at home to the bottom seed too.

If dropping down the rankings and qualification pots is sustainable improvement, give me dinosaur ball all day.

Soups123

I just find it disingenuous for people to defending Kenny as if he is the magical messiah of possession football. The truth is what he conceptually is trying to achieve is fine his execution of it is awful, it’s not acceptable to be 15 games in with one win.

There is a connection between the LOI fan (not all including myself) and defending Kenny as his failure in some way is being seen as a failure one again for national league level and failure.

There are better managers out there with more experience who could carry on the footballing ethos Kenny is trying to achieve. I think we are doing something positive with just the wrong manager.

I like SK, I felt for him the other night but as a fan I have more pity than confidence in what he is doing and that’s not a good place to be

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853013#Comment_117853013

If Azerbaijan had not scored then they might have come out a bit more meaning plan A might have yeilded a goal. You only have to look at our game against Portugal to realise its not that simple to break down a team defending a lead. Regardless of the gulf between the teams. Portugal resorted to whipping balls in as well.

I'm as disappointed as anyone with the lux/Azerbaijan result but I've yet to see sustained performances that make me think we're going backwards.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853014#Comment_117853014

Absolutely no way the playoff under Mick ends any differently than it did under Kenny except if he’s luckier with penalties. What makes you think he’d suddenly go out and try and win a game where he spent the whole campaign accepting draws? Do you honestly think he’d gamble instead of being cautious and trying our luck at penos?

And for me, I’m sick of this negative, results only driven approach. I’m a fan and I want to watch the Ireland team play football, not essentially come up with another way to stop the opposition playing. I will take losses in campaigns we wouldn’t have qualified for anyway if the vision for the team is beyond one campaign. Sitting through Ireland games for the last 4 years has been a form of torture.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852992#Comment_117852992

Again he's not getting sacked, even Dan McDonnell has come out this morning and said the FAI are giving him the campaign before making any decisions.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853024#Comment_117853024

That’s Euro semi-finalists, only knocked out by Spain on penos and drew with the Euro champions last night Switzerland?

And the Danes, who could have been knocked out by an Irish goal “weren’t bothered” when playing us??

It’s not even revisionism, it’s out and out delusion. We finished that group on 13 points. Group winners were 4 points ahead of us. We are currently second last on goal difference with 1 point, group leaders are already 9 ahead of us, LUXEMBOURG ARE FIVE POINTS AHEAD OF US, Luxembourg!!!! having played everyone once, and with Serbia coming up. Even if we were to win every game left, we’d only end up on 13 points. Mick had pretty much the exact same players at his disposal, bar McGoldrick.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852880#Comment_117852880

You keep saying our only goals come from CB with headers but that's just not true. First goal against Serbia was a well worked goal that ended with a good ball into the box and a header from Browne. The second was a goal from Collins.

Against Portugal we created enough chances for the forwards to score. Same as against Azerbaijan. The Luxembourg game was poor.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852945#Comment_117852945

Sorry to break it to you but the kids growing up in Ireland don't look at Egan, Hendrick , McClean , Long as there hero's ,Swap them with VVD, Bruno ,Rashford, Salah and co ,Kids have always looked at the best players across the water as there hero's

Grassroots and youth level supply the senior team with player so yes they need a change , Its the senior teams job to get results

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853057#Comment_117853057

Jesus wept. Does the fact we finished our last group third and are currently above Azerbaijan on goals scored no indicated that we are stuck in reverse??

Ramasun

I like OTB usually, apart from their affiliation with Paddy Power, but I was horrified by suggestions recently that the government should fund soccer accademies.

The rationale was that Horse and Greyhound racing are seen as industries and receive funds from the Dep. Of Ag. (I think this is a terrible use of public funds anyway.)

Apart from the fact that the FAI are possibly the most irresponsible and badly organised sports admin in the country, Soccer is one of the richest sports on the planet.

For a country like ours to spend limited resources on developing assets for billionaire run soccer clubs is ridiculous.

We're already bailing out FAI mismanagement, yet again.

If Soccer wants public money, then they hand over the keys and completely disband their current structure to be rebuilt with proper scrutiny.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852999#Comment_117852999

If only there was some way to measure success in football, like some sort of points system, eh??

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853070#Comment_117853070

What makes me think Ireland would beat Slovakia under Mick is Ireland under mick only failed to score once in the qualifying campaign and we only needed one goal.

Kenny’s Ireland failed to score in 7 of his first 8 matches, I think.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853102#Comment_117853102

I don’t think McGoldrick would have quit on Mick either. I’d say he could see the writing on the wall with Kenny after a few sessions.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853089#Comment_117853089

Also with Brexit Irish teens won't be allowed go to England until they are 18 from now on unless a club wants to root up and house a whole family.

I actually think this is a good thing as it will probably lead to more lads heading to the continent and away from the suffocating UK system which isn't working for us.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853075#Comment_117853075

LOL, no offence but the FAI would be the last crowd I'd believe on anything. A loss tomorrow and the pressure will be massive to end this nightmare.

yourdeadwright

Look we have all know for a while now Kenny is not cut out for the job but somehow throwing 2 goals away in injury time to Portugal and drawing at home to the mighty Azerbaijan have convinced people the future is bright & Kenny the man to lead us there ,

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853089#Comment_117853089

But we've had better players and still always had a senior team that played the same way. Kicking possession away and inviting the opposition to break us down. So essentially nothing will ever change if we take your approach.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853109#Comment_117853109

I suspect similar but only because Mick saved Mcgoldrick from the scrap heap. Think it would have been hard for Mcgoldrick to quit on mick.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853093#Comment_117853093

I don't think you'd get many deafening complaints on your last point! Football governance has always been an absolute shambles here.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853102#Comment_117853102

Under Mick Ireland only even tried to score when they were facing the least acceptable result(I.e a loss, most of the time). If getting a draw meant you could still not be knocked out by the next game, then a draw was fine. This was highlighted with the 0-0 game against Georgia, which was an incredibly risk averse game considering the potential reward.

Ireland under Mick would have done what they’ve done for years. High tempo for 15-20 mins at the start, then 70 minutes of defending whatever you have at that point, even 0-0, unless 0-0 meant you’d be out after 90 mins. And there’s no way they’d risk conceding if a draw meant they’d still have a chance to qualify through penos.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853128#Comment_117853128

So now losing while not playing good football is the way forward? Give me positive results any day.

These heroic defeats, and draws against minnows are embarrassing.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853093#Comment_117853093

Soccer is a small time pursuit in Ireland. There’s no money or industry here beyond a small time one.

you can horrified by those suggestions if you wish but Irish people’s investment in football in ireland is dwarfed by Irish people’s investment in football in the UK.

until that changes ireland will remain a small time football country, the poor man of europe

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853156#Comment_117853156

Football in Ireland is viewed as a hobby. Something for lads to pass away time.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853151#Comment_117853151

statistically under mick and Martin (until the last year) we scored one goal a game. It was like clockwork.

under Kenny last year we statistically scored zero per game.

they are the bare facts of it

yourdeadwright

When Kenny's own backroom staff started walking away it told you everything you needed to know

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853153#Comment_117853153

That's were the pro/anti Kenny camps split as far as I can see. I've enjoyed more Irish games under Kenny then I have under previous managers.

I've gone from feeling lucky when we've won in the past to feeling unlucky when we've drawn/lost.

Im not sure which camp is right. All I know is I'd rather lose with hope then win feeling dirty. If I thought long ball negative football could win a world cup or euros I'd back it but we all know that's not the case. So what's the point of it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853185#Comment_117853185

But, but, we have now have a better style supposedly...Which we don't btw. A losing style is never better.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853202#Comment_117853202

"I'd rather lose with hope then win feeling dirty"

Sorry, but this is one of the more bizarre things I've ever read on here. This line of reasoning is alien to me tbh. It's a losing mentality. Winning should be forefront,especially in international football. It's a two year cycle with 10 or so games.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853185#Comment_117853185

Except facts without context are meaningless. I could tell you I’ve run 200 miles but without knowing how much time it took me it’s either impressive or terrible.

How many minutes under Mick were we leading a game against a higher ranked opponent? I haven’t checked, but I’m going to wager it’s less than Kenny so far.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853201#Comment_117853201

Yeah Duff was a massive lose, where is he now? Yet he was replaced by a lad working with top class players and a top class manager and a champions league winning coach.

Now if he walks away before Kenny you might actually have a point there.

Also Kelly was Mick's mate and walked because Kenny reduced his role to goal keeping coach while under Mick he had more input. Wouldn't blame him to walk if he wasn't happy with that and replaced him with Dean Kiely.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853202#Comment_117853202

Greece 2004 say hello ,

Your logic is nuts , you really think if we keep going down Kenny's road we can win a World cup or Euro's ???

Playing the same way as teams who have far superior players is the magc plan ?

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853232#Comment_117853232

well ok, you think a man whose team didn’t score in 7 of his 8 games in charge was as likely to get a win as a manager whose team scored in every game bar one of his tenure and you are entitled to that opinion.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853230#Comment_117853230

Personally I think your mentality is the losing one. You're happy with mediocrity if it means eeking out a couple of results here and there. Watching 90 mins of turgid football is not my idea of fun, regardless of result.

I'd genuinely rather lose playing well then win playing ugly. Eventually the former yields the better long term results. Especially when the ugly is literally your game plan. I don't mean an off day. I mean that's plan A and plan B. That's got a very low ceiling.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853125#Comment_117853125

I agree that funding of grass roots will ultimately result in better players. But if they're good they won't be playing in the LoI.

The current crop are playing in the lower leagues of England.

Sort out the current system first and see where that takes ús

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851812#Comment_117851812

I didn't say it was an improvement but it's also not getting worse and worse like was suggested

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853185#Comment_117853185

Ireland have 9 in the last 7. They had 1 in the first 8 games under Kenny. There is clearly progress there.

For the first time in a long time Ireland don't have a striker playing regularly in the premier league. We are struggling to score goals. I wouldn't trust any of the current strikers to put away a chance.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853299#Comment_117853299

True…but irrelevant..the debate wasn’t about improvement. It was about if Ireland had a better chance of getting to the euros under mick than Kenny

i and other think yay, others think nay.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853264#Comment_117853264

The play off was Kenny's third game so the 7/8 games is irrelevant when five of those games came after the play off. We had one goal in two games going into the play offs, not one goal in eight games.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117853253#Comment_117853253

No I believe this is the base layer that's required for any sort of sustained mid level success for the national team. I believe having a manager in charge who feels we can at least pass the ball comfortably as professional footballers is the bare minimum we should aspire too.

The way people are going on here you'd swear we had some sort of genetic defect stopping us from playing positive football.

We should be at minimum a similar level of football to Scotland/Wales. Similar to rugby. Yes there'll be times each country have better players through natural cycles but we've been stuck playing an overall failed brand of football when all other similar level nations have moved on from it.