Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865945#Comment_117865945

Just one shot less than Ireland got against Serbia, when all is said and done. Regardless of ‘philosophy’ same result between two similar quality teams in both games.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866001#Comment_117866001

Did you see the amount of saves Bazunu had to do? With his feet and all. That young fella papered over the cracks. Simple as that. It was not down to any tactical nous by Kenny. The goal conceded showed the Irish lads are still not clued in on defending corners. What is Kenny doing in training?

Nor was the goal scored by Ireland as a result of a ‘philosophy’. It was fight desire a hit and hope that went in off a Serbian lad.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866023#Comment_117866023

A goalkeeper is one of the 11 he does not paper over the cracks.

If we won because a striker scored 2 would that have papered over cracks ?

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866002#Comment_117866002

The 1 shot was off target, so actually 5 less than we managed (and about 15% less possession).

We got a bit of luck yesterday, but NI were absolutely haunted tonight with the missed penalty!

Sure a points a point, but I’d feel a lot better about our performance than theirs over the last day.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866034#Comment_117866034

Bazunu was unanimous MOTM what does it say about a team’s performance when a keeper gets MOTM? Be honest!

I think you are deluding yourself with red herring’s about strikers scoring 2 goals. When a keeper gets man of the match. It means the other team were hard done by in the 90 overall simple as that. It is a reality of the specialist position,

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866001#Comment_117866001

We weren’t a threat to Serbia for any minutes really; I guess the very end we gave them a scare. For most of it we were the opposite of a threat. The absolute opposite. We gave Serbia the pitch in the Aviva to strut their stuff. They had a really comfortable enjoyable night till their center half inexplicably made a total mess of things and Serbia conceded a goal that you’d struggle to see in bushy park.

I’m with Kenny, but we were not a threat last night….at all

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866054#Comment_117866054

They were not "hard done by" because their strikers were not good enough to beat the keeper twice. It's not like a load of dodgy refereeing decisions went against them

Brock Turnpike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866145#Comment_117866145

"We weren’t a threat to Serbia for any minutes really; I guess the very end we gave them a scare. "

Can you expand on this massive contradiction please, Dots? Did time stand still during the "very end" part of the game?

McFly85

I genuinely don’t understand people who’d prefer a results first manager over Kenny.

The team loses but plays well and he gets criticised for not getting a result.

He gets a result and then they whip out statistics saying the performance was poor. Like the corners thing. Who cares when we got our first corner? Our keeper played brilliantly, and the reason he was able to do that is we have a manager willing to provide young players with invaluable competitive experience, even if that means the result might not go out way. Himself and Idah are the biggest beneficiaries so far. I’d like to see some good results in the last few games, but I think you can already see our squad will be in a better place for the Euro qualifiers.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866759#Comment_117866759

Young players progressing is down to there clubs and there players themselves,

Playing a couple of game against the mighty Azerbaijan & Serbian who aren't all that there star play plays championship football & Tadic struggled at Southampton he only ever been good in the Dutch league , isn't going to do wonder for you development its what your doing week in week out day in day out at your club that matters ,

The right way to play football at senior international level is whatever way get you more points ,

Senior International qualifying games are about results nothing else ,to say otherwise is trying to just suit an argument

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866672#Comment_117866672

It’s not unusual to discuss a game held on a Tuesday night on the Wednesday night.

no real issue with anything else said, the culture war is very tiring.

NITRO95

From reading the thread it's very easy to see which posters have played football and actually understand the game. Every player on the pitch has a job to do. It's not luck that a GK makes 5 saves. It's not luck that a team creates chances from the 80th min onwards. Is the last 10 mins of a game somehow less important? Does goals/corners/passes/saves made somehow not count once the clock passes a certain point?

I'm no big fan of Kenny as a person, just something I don't like about him. Yet I'm a fan of the work he is attempting to do with the squad. If Ireland don't qualify for the next two tournaments but come out in a far better position from a football playing perspective then I'm fine with that. You can see the young players are responding to his ideas. We aren't in a great place right now but 3 years is a long time in international football, we aren't likely to qualify anyway such is the dearth of talent available so let's give SK a chance and see where this can go. And again I'm not saying this as a LOI diehard and SK stan

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866972#Comment_117866972

Ok so even if we go by your own line of thinking , the defenders are not doing there job to allow Serbia have so many shots on the keeper.

Again by your line of thinking we got a huge slice of luck to get a draw , seen Serbia scored and OG and even assisted the OG ,

Nobody from our team even done there job in the goal we scored .

We got out played & scrapped a lucky point ,

NITRO95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867025#Comment_117867025

You are one of the worst bad faith posters on the forum so i can't be bothered getting into a back and forth with you.

If you believe any of that then cool

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867025#Comment_117867025

I cant really remember a save that i wouldn't have expected the keeper to make. You could argue he should have done better for their goal as he got a full hand to it. Yes he got man of the match but that was down to quantity of saves rather than quality.

Lots of players did their job in the goal we scored. For example, Robinson's job was to cross it, he did that.

It was a lucky draw in the way we got a late equaliser, in the same way Portugal was an unlucky loss. In the same way that the goals we conceded against Lux and Azerbaijan were unlucky in that they were wonder strikes. You seem to have taken a position that anything we do well is luck and anything we we bad is due to how bad we are.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866972#Comment_117866972

Anything in particular you don't like about him as a person? Not to have a pop but similar before he got the job there was something about him and his Dundalk teams that kinda gave me a bit of a negative view with him, but was probably more Vinnie Perth than anything as he was an awful moaning fucker or how O'Donnell would always be in the refs ear trying to ref the game himself at times.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866823#Comment_117866823

Couldn’t disagree more. Can’t expect players to just come into international football and just perform. Experience is vital, and we’ll have several young players with a campaigns experience going into 2024 qualifiers. They’ll have experience of the expectations upon them, the atmospheres they’ll play in, and they’ll be more familiar with eachother.

there are issues to fix certainly, but better to try and do that now rather than go into yet another campaign scraping for draws.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866570#Comment_117866570

I think you are deluded to be honest. Bazunu made way more than two saves. Look at it another way Kenny's supposed philosophy is creative football. Easy on the eye. I don't believe the players are there to do so. Ireland does not have a creative progressive midfielder to play that style.

If you Google 'three motm Ireland football' you will be lucky to see a creative midfielder among them. Even though the award would still be given to an Irish player if they lose 10 nil.

You will find the likes of Duffy/Randolph/Bazunu getting it. McClean for 'effort' v Wales. Molumby for 'marshalling' Aaron Ramsey. And so on, it clearly shows that Ireland's strength is not in creative football. Only chasing, harrying, fast play, big lads up for corners. Goalkeepers keeping Ireland in games etc. When people go on about possession stats being improved it makes me laugh. Because there is no talk of WHERE the possession is. Or what TYPE it is. It is not in a progressive midfield invariably or attacking positions. It is in defence where the ball is passed safely from side to.side. Or midfielders when they get it they pass it backwards zero threat. It is trying to play in a manner that is not suited to the squads strengths IMO.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867103#Comment_117867103

Again I disagree Portugal dangerman Ronaldo let get two headers in on set pieces. Sloppy set piece conceded against Serbia. Training ground stuff? Azerbaijan goal came from their dangerman didn't Kevin Doyle say the fella scored a similar goal previous? Homework not done in analysis? No one closed him down and he was let shoot.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867103#Comment_117867103

Fully agree with the first paragraph. Was more the quantity of saves (7), than the quality, plus nobody else imo did much to stand out to be picked as man of the match. They were all straight at him. The only save imo that you could say was a top class save was the one when Mitrovic got in ahead of Egan, and Bazunu showed great reflexes with his feet to block the save.

But do we also say now that Serbia were lucky only to draw because their keeper pulled off one top class save to deny Omobamidele putting one top corner in the dying minutes.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866972#Comment_117866972

"If Ireland don't qualify for the next two tournaments but come out in a far better position from a football playing perspective then I'm fine with that." - A lot of Kenny fans are saying this as if it's a given. What if we don't qualify for the next 2/3/4/5 tournaments and aren't in a "far better position from a football playing perspective"?? Then what?

Kermit.de.frog

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ht6tP1C_S4

This hits Kenny's rather strange interview style on the head!

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867560#Comment_117867560

Who says Kenny will get 2/3/4/5 tournaments?

Look if the FAI replace him next summer then they replace him. But if they renew his contract until the end of 2023 for the Euro qualifiers I won't mind but if he fails to qualify for the Euros then I say replace him.

Think every Irish manager should be judged on Euro qualification. Bring in someone else and give him a contract until the end of the WC qualifiers before possibly renewing it and then if he qualifies for Euro 28 you renew it again for the next qualifiers. Or give a four year contract but have a clause in that mid way through a contract they can review it.

FAI need to be wary of handing out long contracts because we don't have funds to paying off managers.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867607#Comment_117867607

This absolute flop of a campaign will be Kenny's second.

We finished one point above Bulgaria and 9 points behind a very limited Finland in the Nations League.

We are currently one point above a very limited Azerbaijan and 4 points off world beaters Luxembourg (who have a game in hand).

Where is the improvement?

If Stephen Kenny was told tomorrow, pick your best XI for a playoff game to qualify directly for the WC, would he know his best XI?

Ramasun

Handing out long contracts prematurely hasn't worked out well for Irish teams in many sports.

Let's see what happens this year.

I'm getting more convinced that if we're going to go down the SK road then we should expect to see more LoI players used, instead of players with no first team experience.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867486#Comment_117867486

Its all chicken and egg stuff really. Maybe we dont have the players because we've only ever played the type of football you've described at senior level. So that's the type of player that gets progressed at under age levels etc.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867486#Comment_117867486

There’s loads of reasons that we don’t have good quality technical players, but the reason that we believe our strength is in hoof to the big lad up front is that we’ve been told for years that we cannot play football. We’ve been told it by managers with no interest in the long term health of the team, only interested in short term bonuses for themselves. It was always a horrible way to treat players who were far better for their clubs than you could imagine when you watched them play for Ireland.

And now, we at least have a manager who is encouraging for his team, who wants to see them develop and improve, and to set them up not just for right now but to put us in good stead for future campaigns. I have no doubt whoever comes in after Kenny, whenever that may be, will reap the rewards of the hard work he’s putting in now.

irelandrover

I think you are deluded to be honest. Bazunu made way more than two saves.

Who said he only made 2 saves? You could at least argue points made instead of making up points to argue against.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867705#Comment_117867705

Do we stick with this group of youngsters as a project then, hoping the 6 or 7 internationals a year turn them into competent pros by 2024?

That would appear to block the same opportunity for progression for the current U-21s.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867668#Comment_117867668

Nation's league during WC years barely mean anything, it's the ones before European qualifiers that matter as play off places can be linked to it and they decide seeding for the Euro qualifiers.

You'd have to ask Stephen himself what he thinks his best XI would be, and I assume everyone is fit for selection because we've often been missing a couple of players for each game. If I had to guess it would be near enough to what started against Portugal, but wouldn't be sure on Hendrick and McGrath but think he'd have Robinson up top with Idah as his starting two front men.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866672#Comment_117866672

With regard to the Portugal/Serbia games, I think the opposite.

As I mentioned a few pages back, while we were outplayed against Serbia, it wasn't by a whole lot. Our ball retention was actually good and we passed it well. Passing accuracy was 85%, we had 45% possession. The Serbian front three were outstanding (bar the finishing) and maybe we were a little lucky, but we were always somewhat in the game.

The Portuguese game was the opposite. We had just 32% possession, 69% passing accuracy, and only completed 188 passes. The Portuguese front players had really poor games, Ronaldo in particular was anonymous for 89 minutes and contributed nothing (just 22 passes in the entire match, incredible considering the game was spent mostly in our half) until his two goals. To put that in perspective, when we were hammered by Spain in Euro 2012 and everyone was appalled by our brand of football, we had slightly more possession (34%) and completed more passes (224) than we did against Portugal. I think the manner of our defeat flattered what was a poor footballing performance.

Stats source for the Portugal game - https://www.uefa.com/european-qualifiers/match/2030839--portugal-vs-republic-of-ireland/statistics/

Stats source for the Spain game - https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/match/2003332--spain-vs-republic-of-ireland/

Players stats for the Portugal game - https://twitter.com/irish_abroad/status/1433133878923902989

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867759#Comment_117867759

And I think the person he quoted ment that two of the chances Serbia had and failed to score rather than two saves all game. Because there was seven but all the saves were straight at him. Like that Serbia free kick that floated in and hit the cross bar had a better chance of being a goal than some of the shots he saved.

Hendricks shot off target had the Serbia keeper moving to get down for a save than half the shoots which were hit straight at him.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867759#Comment_117867759

I said they didn't score 2 goals against Bazunu I don't know where he got that from

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864948#Comment_117864948

Well I’m a match going fan and I find the willingness to sacrifice our competitiveness and talk about the senior team as if it was a development side ridiculous.

But while we’re throwing out broad brush strokes to describe sides of this debate, it’s fairly clear to me that a large contingent of Kenny truthers are LOI fans who feel the senior team is deserving of a down period. That the FAI should feel pain for mismanagement of the domestic game, etc. Just while we’re casting aspersions, as it were.

Yeah the atmosphere during the week was fabulous. The performance was crap, and we’re allowing their inability to covert a handful of gilt edged chances (including exceptional goalkeeping) to confuse us. The same people cheering the Serbia game on as a “pivotal moment” would have whined bitterly about the same performance if O’Neill or McCarthy was in charge.

This is completely toxic, but such as it always was going to be when a man not qualified for something was given a job and he serves to represent things much bigger than the results he is responsible for on the pitch.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867892#Comment_117867892

We only played 108 passes in the first half as opposed to 80 on the second half when it was backs to the wall. 108 passes is still really poor. Egan in particular completed just 65% of his passes. This is inexcusable for a defender.

Zeek12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867103#Comment_117867103

100% agree on your point regarding Bazunu's saves. Many of them were routine stops. Some of those opportunities were just half-chances from Serbia's perspective. But because he's only 19, RTE and the irish media are inclined to over-hype him. No surprise there, they do this every time a new young Irish player emerges.

Fair play to Bazunu, he stepped up when the opportunity came and grabbed his chance at International level and has shown admirable maturity thus far. But if Randolph or Kelleher played on Tues. night I'd fully expect them to make those stops and interventions too.

The_Kew_Tour

Never has a match created such opposites

Some think we were rubbish. Others thought we were very good.

Myself I think its somewhere in between.

We are good in patches but I felt overall we were opened up too easy also. Much better on ball but still need create more chances too

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868024#Comment_117868024

This is true.

Anyone remember when McShane made his debut? He had Jan Koller in his pocket for the game and was awarded MOTM. He never reached the heights of that debut ever again.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868024#Comment_117868024

His distribution was the other factor too, in fairness. It was top class, and our efforts to play the ball out from the back could have looked very grim without him.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867792#Comment_117867792

Well is it more hope because O'Shea, Bazunu, and Knight are competent pros already you would say, but Knight needs to get out of Derby to work with a better manager.

Omobamidele looked competent this window, but we don't know what Norwich are going to do with his progress. You hope they'll loan him out come January or he breaks into their first team. Collins will have to wait until Tarkowski walks on a free next summer and he'll be a Burnley regularly.

I know Idah isn't really playing at club level, but is there anyone else that can replace him and play similar to how Kenny wanted him to drop off the line and try hold up the ball. I feel Robinson and Idah could be our best pairing up front, but I'm sure the only two match day squads that both players were involved together with were our last two games, but Robinson was still feeling the effects of Covid to be starting games.

Connolly and Robinson could be another partnership but Connolly needs to start cutting out silly mistakes in his game. Makes great runs but chooses the wrong options most of the times and has a habit of not getting his head up to see better options.

And if someone from the U21s progresses enough for a cap they'll be brought in. But I think lads from the LOI will need to be in a proper full time professional set up. Take Andy Lyons for example, Bohs right back that has been playing good for club and U21s, but he's in a part time set up at Bohs.

Like is there anyone from the LOI you think should be getting into the squad and is being kept out by someone with no first team experience?

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867943#Comment_117867943

I think the only people talking about pivotal moments were Hamilton and Kelly. Any of the people here who were positive towards it were very much in the 'we did well, a good result, but things need to, very clearly, still be worked on to get us going consistently in the right direction'.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867759#Comment_117867759

That post was in a reply to poster breezy1985 where the following was said:

—

‘They were not "hard done by" because their strikers were not good enough to beat the keeper twice. It's not like a load of dodgy refereeing decisions went against them’—-

Hence my reply stating that Bazunu made more than two saves- in reference to the Serbian keeper not been beaten twice. Basically because of Bazunu. Also another poster referenced Bazunu’s built up play from the back and composure which I agree with. He was very impressive. Also there were saves with his feet as well really covers the goal. He might carry Ireland for decades.

Ramasun

Stephen Kenny is good enough for the national team so League of Ireland players are too.

Let's see some domestic talent given a chance.

Ramasun

We're in a time where results don't matter. If SK fielded a team with a sprinkling of LoI players it would raise the profile of the league and encourage people to go to games.

dr.kenneth noisewater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868051#Comment_117868051

Couldn't agree with this more, we weren't as bad as some suggest and not a good as others suggest. People still rave on about the 0-0 against Russia, now that was a game we got battered in and were lucky to get a draw in! Personally I see the Nations league as a write off due to the Covid issues and bedding in a new team so dont pay much attention to those results.

In this group we've played best against the better teams (Serbia x2 and Portugal) and terrible against Lux and Aze which is disappointing and makes it harder to judge the team imo. It seems to me we've figured a decent plan when we're the underdog but haven't figured out how to play when we're favourites/better team (something I think is harder to do btw). I think if we beat Lux and Aze and put in a good performance against Portugal then Kenny should get another campaign. Another loss to either of those 2 makes it hard to justify an extension in my eyes.

I do wonder would those who are unhappy be more impressed if we'd beat both Lux and Aze 2-0 and lost by 2/3 away to Serbia and Portugal playing defensive football as we'd have more points on the board and still be in contention?

Tchaikovsky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867811#Comment_117867811

Wales are guaranteed a play-off spot for the World Cup, regardless of where they finish in their group, due to winning our Nations League group last year.

Tchaikovsky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868565#Comment_117868565

Sure Jimmy Magee commentated in the match against Italy in 1990 so that can't be true about George Hamilton

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868941#Comment_117868941

Sure that doesn't matter

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868983#Comment_117868983

Apologies, looked back up the article and misread. Said vast majority of Ireland games since a defeat against Denmark in 84.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117868884#Comment_117868884

I think if Kenny does beat Lux and Azerbaijan', puts up a fight v Portugal he will have done OK. No more no less. As It will mean Ireland will have finished third.

I actually think he deserves another campaign not because of performance. But because if hiring him was viewed as a ‘long term development project’ why dump him now? Let him and the players learn ‘on the job’. Also not many viable cheap alternatives queuing up is there?