Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118159020#Comment_118159020

Still has 12 months left on it.

Mr.Nice Guy

I respect the fact that several of you have engaged the questions. It's good to see where you're coming from despite my difficulties with some of the views expressed. My own answers would be:

Q1. Leaving any personal feelings towards the coach aside, can the results of the team up to now be considered satisfactory?

No, they cannot be considered satisfactory. We have seen one competitive win so far, and experiencing a loss at home to Luxembourg is unacceptable for any coach. We needed 12 points from the pot 4 & 5 sides and at best we will end up with a maximum of 7.

Q2. Again leaving personal feelings to one side, do the record of results so far present a strong case for further backing?

Trying hard to leave my pessimism aside, I can acknowledge recent results have been an improvement on what has gone before. Is it enough to warrant further backing? I'd need to see how the Luxembourg game goes. If we can't beat them, then it raises serious concerns over how we would do in future campaigns. If we can beat them, then there is a case. Maybe not a strong case. But it's a case.

Q3. Think of a comparable-level team you would consider one of your team's rivals, would they accept this coach on the basis of his record?

No, I don't think comparable-level teams would be too impressed with the record of results seen so far. I've seen comments from Dunfermline fans online who are stunned that he has been backed this far.

Q4. What level of team is this coach likely to be managing after his current managerial stint ends?

I can't see him managing at a Championship level club. League One might be possible. I suspect he'd be more likely to go back to the LOI.

Q5. Leaving sentiment aside, how would you rate this coach on a scale of 1-10 based on his record. Looking at the score you have awarded, would you typically back a coach with such a score?

Currently, I would rate him a 4. I'll give him that based on the performances against Portugal. Ultimately, it's been below average. He's garnered a worse record than Staunton, who is the worst coach I've seen in my time as a fan, and this campaign was a failure at the halfway stage, along with having one of our worst results in history. We head into the last game looking to avoid finishing below our pot seeding.

Overall, I agree with Brady that we should take our time before offering any new contract. A few people asked above who would I have instead of Kenny. I would go for Hughton, who I've long thought would be a good fit for us from his time at Newcastle and Brighton. The Forest experience wouldn't sour me on him. Lee Carsley is another interesting option I've heard mentioned, although he might not want to be considered at this point in time given he's in a role. I think the 'who else is there?' stuff misses the point though. One might call it the Glazers defence. We have to start by answering whether the person in the role is the right one for the job. If the answer to that is no, then a break must be made. Sticking with the wrong person due to a lack of imagination is not going to help either party. I don't accept the premise that the only way Irish football can have a bright future is if Stephen Kenny is at the helm of the senior side.

The Luxembourg game is a massive barometer of where we are, and where we're going as a side. Funny thing is I don't think fans on either side of the debate are sure what way it's going to go.

Backstreet Moyes

If we played those portugal games under the previous two managers we would be camped in our box praying the keeper has a stormer and Duffy scores from a corner.

We went for it in both games and we were probably unlucky to only pick up two points.

It's enjoyable watching ireland again which I didn't say for a long time.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118159165#Comment_118159165

I think you need to stop with the Ole references. I'm a United fan and can see no style/patterns of play or any sign of a plan. With Ireland, they now have a plan, you can see what he is trying to do.

Any other manager will not solve Irelands goal scoring issues, they have been there since Robbie retired but i think Kenny is giving the players a plan that is creating chances, we just dont have someone who will put them away.

Chris Hughton really? Why? Plays defensive, solid, sit back football. So it would be back to the trap/mon/mick era and everyone wanting kenny out would be whinging about the style of football after 3 or 4 games. Every young irish players is now brought up playing out from the back, trying to keep the ball, bringing in Hughton or someone who likes that style would be seriously regressive and would again set the team back 10 years again.

If you are going to replace Kenny it has to be a younger coach who likes to be progressive and keep possession. Our obsession with long ball has to stop at some stage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157131#Comment_118157131

If you think that's the only change that's been made then your either intentionally or not being ignorant. You'd be blind to not see a difference

Ramasun

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer will be available next summer at the latest.

He is also a very nice guy and actually has experience at the highest level

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118159912#Comment_118159912

Let's not forget some of the 'experts' here telling us how the poor job he'd done at Forest was down to the club and not Hughton. Interesting that since he's left their record is 6 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss. The 10 game form table has them 3rd, behind only Bournemouth and Fulham.

Hughton is very much yesterday's man. Someone I'd have wanted about 10 years ago, post Trap. Not now, his best days are in the rear view mirror.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118159915#Comment_118159915

As Duffy said himself, "if you don't think we're going in a positive way, you're writing the wrong stuff". Not surprised to see certain players so upbeat and buoyant when they're being filled with confidence rather than being told they're unable to do things beyond heading the ball away.

U19s playing Bosnia at half 12 in a winner tops the group game. Two changes from the previous and interestingly enough one of them is the goalkeeper. Val Adedokun in at LW with Andy Moran moving centrally to replace Evan Caffrey.

https://twitter.com/RepTracker/status/1459483163915427841

Ferris_Bueller

Q1. Leaving any personal feelings towards the coach aside, can the results of the team up to now be considered satisfactory?

No. Results have been poor and on paper it will go down as our worst campaign in recent memory.

Q2. Again leaving personal feelings to one side, do the record of results so far present a strong case for further backing?

Hard to say. There's been a definite improvement in results over the last 6 months. The loss to Luxembourg and draw with Azerbaijan obviously the big issues but every other result in this group has been acceptable.

Q3. Think of a comparable-level team you would consider one of your team's rivals, would they accept this coach on the basis of his record?

I think they would. If a manager from a Finland, Norway, Bosnia etc had such success in their own domestic league, in Europe and at u21 level I would go as far as saying he would be almost guaranteed the national team job.

Q4. What level of team is this coach likely to be managing after his current managerial stint ends?

Very hard question to answer for a couple of reasons. Probably agree that I don't see Kenny managing in England.

Q5. Leaving sentiment aside, how would you rate this coach on a scale of 1-10 based on his record. Looking at the score you have awarded, would you typically back a coach with such a score?

Right now I'd be giving him probably a 5. Results and the early performances have been poor and not to the level required. Over last few months things look a lot better.

I think the above questions aren't designed to address any of the positive elements under Kenny such as the improved performances, the amount of players he has blooded through and general optimism for the future. Look at the end of the day I assume everyone on this forum wants the same thing, we want Ireland to do well at international level. If we all thought that we were going in the wrong direction I'm sure people would say it. But the reality is that most match going supporters can see the signs of progress, see what we are trying to do and think it is worth continuing with. If we don't get to euro 2024 then we will try someone else, but right now I think he is the best man for the job.

I'm actually amazed to come on here after Thursday and see the debate is still going on. I thought after that result and performance it would be more of a positive mood in here.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118160264#Comment_118160264

One thing you said about if everyone thought we were going in the wrong direction got me thinking again how I was pleasantly surprised at certain people I know who are supportive of the changes being made.

My brother in law who would have been in his 20s for Euro 88, and a staunch supporter of Trap because he was effective actually coming out and saying I'm liking what Kenny is trying to do with the players. Think for a lot of people they're actually enjoying watching Ireland play and willing to give it time.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118160223#Comment_118160223

https://www.uefa.com/under19/match/2031152--republic-of-ireland-vs-bosnia-and-herzegovina/

Updates here, 1-0 Ireland, goal from Kenny.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118160357#Comment_118160357

Goals in back to back games for Kenny, Sligo done good getting him tied down to a three year contract.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118160223#Comment_118160223

As a Pats fan, delighted to see James Abankwah in there. He’s a serious prospect.

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118160264#Comment_118160264

In fairness the majority here are very much in favour of him staying on and are very positive about how the changes are going. It's one or two who are trying to argue against it.

athlone99

Anyone else see or read Richard Dunnes latest nonsense? He's embaressing himself at this stage.

Screenshot_20211113-161218_Ballsie.jpg

Screenshot_20211113-161108_Ballsie.jpg

trashcan

That is nonsense isn’t it ? The narrative seems to be that we started off trying to play like Barcelona, now we’ve reverted to peak era Wimbledon. Neither is true of course. To me, we’re still trying to play pretty much the same way as we have been since Kenny took over. We’re still predominantly looking to play it out from the back. With Ogbene having come through I can see us utilising the ball over the top a bit more for him to run onto. I don’t think however that you can seriously argue that Kenny has changed his philosophy. Dunno is just another of those ex pros who never wanted to give Kenny a chance. Presumably he’d be happier to see his mate Robbie given the job.

Mantis Toboggan

We've changed alot imo, early Kenny Ball was trying to beat team's on possession, creating nothing, now we're alot more direct. Kenny is still learning on the job and has shown he's willing to change and that's a good thing.

votecounts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118159771#Comment_118159771

did we not only pick up 1 point or am I messing up the games

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118162643#Comment_118162643

The likes of Dunne are doing themselves no favours with the way they are going on. Its a strange obsession they have, its the reason Kerr failed, they didnt give him a chance and as it was John Delaneys FAI Kerr was given the boot.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118162898#Comment_118162898

Are pro Kenny people allowed use context? Yes won 1 game in the group, lost to Luxembourg from a shot from 35 yards out and Azerbaijan scored a screamer from 25 yards. These things can happen and hard to lay all the blame on the manager as if you want to do that everyone needs to slate Coleman for not closing the ball. IMO Individual mistakes cost Ireland games not the game plan. Keeper error against Serbia and well you know, Ronaldo. If it wasnt for bad luck Kenny would have no luck.

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118163957#Comment_118163957

Surprised he gets any TV work as I find his monotonous drone incredibly off putting. Great player, terrible, terrible pundit.

rebelomar

I just noticed that Obafemi and Connolly are both still underage for the u21 side. Given that both are not flush with first team opportunities at their clubs, it would have seemed like a good idea to include them for the Italy and Sweden games?

We picked lads playing u23 football so surely lads in and around their club first team squads should get the call?

Patrick2010

Luxembourg game is irrelevant, anyone can see we’re making progress except those who never liked Kenny from day one. I really hope the FAI stick with him despite the likes of Brady who like his old boss Trap laughed with Italian journalists at the idea the Irish can play football.

Brian Kerr doesn’t like him presumably because he’s still bitter about not getting his contract renewed.

The number of ex internationals Dunne, McAteer etc who slag off Kenny are big Mick fans who wish he was back.

johnnyryan89

https://twitter.com/enda_coll/status/1459843564293214213

Omobamidele included in the match squad. Horgan and Taylor miss out. Horgan missing out again and he's not injured. You question his inclusion in future squads if O'Dowda is getting in ahead of him and he wasn't in the initial squad.

trashcan

I think I’d go with the same line up tonight. As good as Omobamidele is going to be, no need to rush him back for this. Ogbene deserves another chance up front, as does Jamie McGrath. Only player I’d maybe think of putting in is Knight. He’s looked promising when I’ve seen him, which isn’t a lot tbh.

Ferris_Bueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164224#Comment_118164224

I'd actually say tonight is a fairly big game, we are clearly making progress but if we don't win tonight it will be a mark against Kenny and even he himself couldn't argue otherwise. We need to be able to beat the teams that are weaker than us, if we cannot do this we will struggle to qualify for tournaments. In the Euro 2024 qualifiers we have to be aiming for maximum points from the teams ranked below us. While I would still let him continue in the job either way, I would feel a lot more confident knowing we could beat Luxembourg away. If we don't win it will give the anti-Kenny brigade fuel (justified) and you can guarantee the debate as to whether he is suitable or not will continue onto March and beyond. A win and I think we can agree that Ireland have turned a corner since March and we can look forward to next year.

votecounts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118163058#Comment_118163058

I was making the point that we got only 1 point from the 2 portugals games as the poster had said we had picked up 2 points. Don't honestly what your post has to do with that.

Francie Barrett

Byrne has apparently completed a medical and will return to Rovers - https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-40743282.html

Good move, hopefully he can get back to playing regular football again.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164368#Comment_118164368

It was mentioned as an aside by Darragh Maloney the last day I think it was. That is a results business. If Kenny wins he is third in the group and the picture looks better.

Which implied third in the group is the bare minimum of where Kenny was supposed to finish based on team rankings etc. If Ireland finish third it is a C- if they finish below that legitimate questions can be asked.

Kenny's reign reminds me a lot of Mick's first stint as Irish manager. He needed to blood young players after the team had reached the end of a cycle. Yeah, the standard of expectations was different. But Mick was learning on the job and did a lot of tactically naive things. Such as claiming that Roy Keane could be a 'world class' sweeper and played him there against Iceland in 1996. It took away Ireland's biggest threat. Ended in a 0-0, Idea quickly shelved.

https://www.balls.ie/football/roy-keane-booed-against-iceland-349474-349474

I found it interesting that Kenny bristled when the Luxembourg manager said that Ireland have gone back to more of a 'British' style. It shows me Kenny seems to be wedded in his mind to the 'philosophy' of ball retention for the sake of it. But to my eyes it is not as bad as it once was. Which is probably what the Luxembourg manager is referring to. The mix is starting to become more effective as result.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/other/luxembourg-manager-says-ireland-have-improved-after-reverting-to-a-british-style/ar-AAQFfe9

That is one of the major mistakes Kenny has made in this campaign, 'possession for the sake of it' making Ireland easy to defend against for even the most bog standard international team. Kenny's teams so far (overall) also stopped doing the fundamentals for an Irish side harrying closing down - denying space. Crucial for a technically limited side. Kenny takes major blame of that IMO.

Quicker passing and going slightly more direct (not hoofing for the sake of it) is playing to Ireland's strengths IMO. Set pieces and so on. Despite Kenny's 'philosophy' Duffy is still Ireland's best attacking threat at set pieces. And a team should play to its strengths to hide their weaknesses.

And Ireland's weakness is midfield and attack, The quality of technical ability is just not there to play an effective possession game with penetrative passes. Ireland are not even at a Georgia level in technical ability.

Trying to get Ireland to play side to side possession for the sake of and not focusing on the teams strengths, is the equivalent of Mick playing Roy as sweeper all those years ago. Silly notions that should be quickly shelved.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118158502#Comment_118158502

Like a lot of tests this one is quite flawed. It's based on the fundamental belief that results are the be all and end all, in any given campaign, and the questions reflect that belief. As such it is a test that will only ever paint Kenny in a negative light in this campaign.

Here are some questions that look beyond that and factor in short-term sacrifices for long term future gains:

Q6. If the results have not been satisfactory have the results at least been improving over time?

Q7. Has there been a large turnover in players, especially the introduction of younger, more experienced players (with an eye to the future)?

Q8. Has there been a fundamental change in the style of the team?

Q9. Are the players buying in to the plans and style of the manager?

The addition of questions that factor in potential future benefits result in a lot more optimistic answers for Stephen Kenny. At the same time Solskjaer would likely fare poorly in these new questions as well.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164576#Comment_118164576

That makes no sense - a manager has to play to the strengths of a team/players he has available in international. Not picking a 'philosophy' because it is a belief making a team less effective. That is completely assways and the wrong way around. It is not club football where players can be brought in. It is precisely because of this shoehorning a 'philosophy' with technical limited players that Ireland got some really poor results IMO.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164624#Comment_118164624

Why? I don't get that at all.The way a team plays has to reflect the players available. It is not a question of just trying to force a 'philosophy' on players.

1) A manager at International level has to use the players he has and play to their strengths and covering for any weaknesses

2) In doing so the idea is that the manager gets the team playing effectively and even over performing based on their ability - you will not see Duff in at Shels trying to play like Man City. A cloth must be cut accordingly.

3) Putting the wrong 'philosophy' with a group of players that are not able to play that way effectively makes them underachieve.

c.p.w.g.w

People say we don't have the players to play Kenny's style...

Look at the players he had playing great ball at Dundalk...Also Bielsa has a bunch of players who were bottom half of the championship players playing some fabulous ball at Leeds...

The attitude of the players is more important than their technical ability when it comes to changing a playing style in my opinion

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164870#Comment_118164870

The Dundalk thing is brought out as an example time and again. But Kenny had the advantage of buying players. The best ones at LOI level. He got to the Europa League and got a draw and a win - which was a great achievement. The team broke up and it died.

Leeds play exciting football but are only 3 points off the relegation zone.

--

Kenny cannot buy a creative midfielder and a striker for the the Irish team.

Pawwed Rig

Kenny has played a number of different formations and set ups up to now. He even proved that Doherty and Coleman could play together in spite of MM asserting that they couldn't after 1 try against Andorra. He has settled on a 5 3 2 now (or 3 5 2 depending on how you want to look at it) but hasn't been afraid to mix it up during games. He has adapted his formation exactly to suit the players available to him. Our top players are defenders so instead of 2 central defenders he uses 3. As we have Coleman, Stevens and Doherty it makes sense to play with wing backs so he has. He has also put McClean in that position which worked reasonably well.

He isn't just pushing ahead with 1 way of playing. I am not sure how someone could come to that conclusion tbh.

He is also not afraid to be wrong. You can see Parrott doesnt get a look in anymore despite being pushed early on. Also Idah was a starter but has dropped down the pecking order. Seems very pragmatic the way he goes about his business.

I dont think tonight's game is irrelevant at all. I see it as a massive game for him. A win here and he can experiment a bit in upcoming friendlies. A loss against Lux will put in needed importance on the friendlies

Kermit.de.frog

Being beaten home and away by Luxembourg would surely mean he'd have to go?

Either we have standards or we don't.

I don't see many Irish fans stomaching a double humiliation. Literally would be two of the worst results in Irish football history in the same campaign.

Kermit.de.frog

As far as I'm concerned he is lucky after the first Luxembourg result to have a job. That result is going to take a lot of getting over.

He may have some half decent results since against rubbish or not interested opposition but another defeat to Luxembourg I couldn't accept and I highly doubt most fans would accept.

Any other national team and he'd be gone if he lost tonight.

I hope we win but if we lose he should not be given another contract imo.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165030#Comment_118165030

I would be interesting to see if you could find worse two in the one campaign? In Kenny's reign so far there have been a lot of underperformance and poor results more than many of the previous manager's campaigns.

When you think of poor matches -

Jack - Liechtenstein

Mick I - Macedonia - Mick II - Gibraltar

Kerr - Israel

Stan - Cyprus

Trap - Germany

MON - Denmark - Georgia

Kenny - Luxembourg - Azerbaijan - Bulgaria - Finland etc

Mantis Toboggan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165006#Comment_118165006

We're a much better team now, I think we'll make light work of them.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165077#Comment_118165077

I certainly hope so.

He needs a win tonight.

Patrick2010

Will be a tough game, they’re no pushover. Remember under Jack us scraping a 2-1 win at home to them

Ferris_Bueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165067#Comment_118165067

I'd say your initial statement of it would be the worst two results in a single campaign is probably right, at least going back in the last 30 years or so. But listing Bulgaria and Finland in your list is a bit OTT, Finland who were at the Euros and look like making the WC playoff this time. Two draws with Bulgaria were bad results but hardly up there with the horrors of Irish football.

Mick got a few very hairy results in his first spell - draws at home to Lithuania and Iceland were very poor results at the time along with the loss to Macedonia. Kerr two draws with Israel and also drew with Albania. Staunton had some horrible results especially considering the players we had available.

Brussels Sprout

Luxembourg have certainly improved drastically from where they were from years ago. There are a lot of migrants living in the country and they appear to have tapped into this community for new blood (the guy who scored the winner against us was born in Portugal for example). They were 1 result away from winning their Nations League C group last year (they lost 2-1 away to Cyprus after going 1-0 up but then getting a man sent off).

Of course we should still have beaten them at home but they're no San Marino or Gibraltar. Hopefully we'll rectify that defeat tonight. If we play the same as we have in our last two games then we should.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165030#Comment_118165030

There's definitely been a progression over the last few games. But to lose again to Lux would be a huge step back. He'd have to go. Nobody can stand over a manager of an Irish national side who lost home and away to Lux.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165308#Comment_118165308

Same as us really. Seems like migrant communities are a healthy breeding ground for good footballers. France another good example

Francie Barrett

Kenny really seems to love Idah.

ElJaguar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165718#Comment_118165718

I don't think McClean should be starting.

glenjamin

I thought Coleman wasn't to be fit for the two games?

I'd have much rather have seen Coleman at RWB and Doherty move to the left than see McClean getting another start.

Hopefully Idah breaks his duck. He really needs to end this season strong or he'll be joining the likes of Parrott in League 1 soon I feel.

Mantis Toboggan

Hard to know what idah has done to get back in, just doesn't seem to have a goal in him hopefully he can prove me wrong.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165393#Comment_118165393

Typical Irish fan arrogance. Thinking we should be swatting away the "minnows"

You do know Luxembourg are also sitting there thinking they can beat little teams like Ireland.

We are favourites but nothing suggests we are way better with or without Kenny

~Rebel~

I always feel better about us when we go 2 up instead of 3... would've liked Knight in instead of Idah for that extra bit of control in the middle.

Still a decent looking team though, and while I'm not a fan of McClean, he's one of our most in form players and scoring a lot of goals at club level.