Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946540#Comment_117946540

I never said that, they however do seem fine with aligning themselves with and claim to 'understand' the views of group who are, at least in part, made up of racists.

BTW, you never answered the below question I asked you - did you purposefully ignore it?

'You once again ignore the point that I've made again and again - history has shown us over and over that people will always find a reason to find anti-racism protests 'divisive'. From civil rights protests to the recent protests in the NFL - there is never a 'right' way. You're naïve or delusional to think that this time would be different.

Do you similarly 'understand' those who booed and counterprotested the protests MLK led?'

Potential-Monke

This is the roundest thread on boards

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947227#Comment_117947227

Are you asking me if I agree or understand the people who were pro-segregation? Erm, no.

It's a little silly to think that I would.

Considering my daughter isn't white and I've repeatedly said on here how much I detest racism and support any initiative to counter racism except one that prominently features a gesture that can be linked back to what I, and many others, feel is a terrible group.

There are plenty of "right" ways to protest. And there are plenty of wrong. I don't feel that this is the right one. I'm not demanding that it stops, people should be free to protest as they wish.

But I won't be bullied into supporting an initiative which I feel is doing more harm than good because some idiots trying to imply that I am a racist (or support racists) if I don't or if I am vocal in my opposition of a gesture.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946425#Comment_117946425

If everyone respects each other they won't racially abuse each other and will treat people equally. Or am i missing something? Does respect mean something different to you?

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948368#Comment_117948368

Respect badge is specifically focused on soccer, the protest the players are making goes far beyond that.

Pointing at a badge that has been in place for years related to a narrower topic is also the weakest approach to a protest I've ever heard of - all so some whiners feelings aren't hurt by the already very passive protest.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948294#Comment_117948294

I am asking you if you're consistent as all those claims you are making now are the exact same that were made against MLK and the civil rights protesters. There were consistent claims that the civil rights protesters were linked to 'terrible groups' and that their approach to protests were 'divisive', that they were doing more harm than good.

No one is bullying you, we're just pointing out the facts about who you're choosing to align yourself with, how similar claims you're making have been seen throughout history as being lies, and how people like you have been on the wrong side of history again and again.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947828#Comment_117947828

All of the race related threads are the same - real war of attrition. I checked out this one for a few months but it has more legs due to the ongoing protests keeping the issue front of mind. It actually is proof that the protest is doing an element of what they are hoping for - not allowing the issue to disappear like certain people would like.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949987#Comment_117949987

Respect is focused on sawker?? When did respect become a football only thing? What a stupid argument!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950062#Comment_117950062

Your language is telling.

I'm not aligning myself with anyone. I have an issue with the knee gesture and can see why people would boo it.

I think people should be free to voice their displeasure at it without being called a racist if their reasons for not being happy with it is because they'd prefer an alternate and less divisive method of protest.

I've never aligned myself with racists. It's dishonest to say I have.

TomSweeney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945933#Comment_117945933

I can't speak for the NFL I have no clue what is going on there, but as for the length of the act as it where, the knee is very quick, and I would say them embracing and a long silence is much more "intrusive" yet it doesn't get the booing.

The fact that all these players will be going to Qatar next year where 10's of thousands of minorities have died in slave labour building the fuckin stadiums shows what a JOKE this is.

That's actual discrimination, that's ACTUAL injustice, not the tiny tiny % of black people killed by white American cops - that is more police brutality than racism.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117951350#Comment_117951350

Your continued evasion of my questions and point is much more telling.

By your own repeated logic of why you 'understand' the booers, you also 'understand' those who counter-protested MLK and the civil rights protesters, as their form, timing, views were also deemed by many to be 'divisive'.

You've chosen the side of history you'd like to be on, just own it.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952977#Comment_117952977

Those seem like serious issues you've raised about Qatar, wouldn't it be great if the boo crew and the likes truly cared about these and similar problems rather than just trotting them out for points scoring any time black athletes speak up or there are anti racism protests. Imagine how much better you might feel if you put your time into improving things rather whining about a peaceful anti-racism protests.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956226#Comment_117956226

Lol. Ok so chief.

I'm more than happy with the "side" I'm on.

Being against BLM and any gesture associated with them is exactly the same as sympathising with people who were pro segregation. Fair enough. You are obviously a much better and certainly less racist person. I'm sure you do lots and lots of things to stop racism.

Let's leave it there.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956723#Comment_117956723

It wouldn't be hard, a person doing absolutely nothing would be better than you providing cover and 'understanding' of those booing a peaceful anti-racism protest.

If you were so 'happy' with who your were choosing to associate yourself with then you wouldn't be spending so much time whining about people pointing out the fact that the group you 'understand' includes open racists.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960237#Comment_117960237

Bless you. You've no idea.

I've no problem with calling out false claims of people being racist for opposing the knee.

There are countless examples, on this very thread, of me explicitly explaining how I face racism regularly, how I denounce racism and abhor racists, yet people like you use my words and misrepresent them in some bizarre attempt to frame me as in league with racists, because I won't get behind a specific gesture.

Yes, some racists also don't like the knee. That's not reason enough for me to support it.

Some fascists also don't like antifa. That's not reason enough for me to support antifa.

Some xenophobes also aren't crazy about illegal immigration. Doesn't mean I should support it.

But no, you're probably right. Even though I have explicitly given my non racist reasons for opposing the knee, you don't agree with me so therefore I am a racist at worst and aligning with them at best.

Ffs.

It's textbook attempt to bully people into submission.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

No matter what your stance, this is pretty clever from the Legia Warsaw fans this evening...

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960725#Comment_117960725

Again, utter hypocrisy and a victim mentality from you. You 'understand' a crowd showing their displeasure by hurling abuse at a peaceful protest but anyone showing their displeasure towards your opinion here with words is 'bullying'.

No one is saying you have to support anything, just to have an ounce of respect when people are peacefully protesting racism. It isn't hard, you can feel whatever you want but just keep your mouth shut. I've walked past many protests and protesters I do not agree with, I am however not an animal so have never felt the need to roar my disapproval at them. The more embarrassing thing is that these lads do it from the safety of the stands in numbers, they wouldn't dare do it on the street by themselves at an actual BLM protest - they're soccer's version of internet warriors.

Sure, you've given your 'non racist' reasons and I've pointed out that your reasons are the exact same that were given by those who were against MLK and Civil Rights marches - using the justification that they were 'divisive' and had links to 'the wrong people'.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961255#Comment_117961255

When you take into account that the fanbase of that club has a serious history of racism - clever isn't the first thing that comes to mind

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961347#Comment_117961347

Yeah, calling someone a racist when they aren't following your views is bullying.

Not a victim mentality. Not even in the slightest. I don't see myself as a victim in any way. But your ugly and dishonest debating style is undoubtedly bullying.

Racism is a topic which is very important to me so I hate seeing it diluted with ridiculous spurious accusations which make a mockery of the serious topic.

Being against taking the knee is not racist, no matter how hard you try to make it so.

Your opinion seems to be if you don't agree with something...keep your mouth shut.

Take your own advice chief.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961435#Comment_117961435

Why do you think it was only England and Millwall supporters who have booed their own team taking the knee? These are the people you are defending. I won't ask why you think Poland, Hungary and Russia fans have booed opposition players doing the same thing, because I think the answer is pretty obvious? Reading this thread you would thing the issue is an ongoing one, it isn't? Booing has only happened in a handful of matches. Other teams took the knee in the Euros without incident. Players are taking the knee before every Premier League match, most Champions League matches and there is no booing. Not only is there no booing, but in every match I have seen the gesture has been warming applauded. I think mostly because people are taking the opportunity to show support for their team.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961501#Comment_117961501

Your first sentence shows how ill informed you are.

But it's ok. If you think the knee taking is doing good then good for you. But I can tell you why I feel you are wrong for supporting that gesture.

I'm personally against it, you can tell me why I am wrong for feeling that way but that's ok too.

Only one of us will be called a bigot or a racist though

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961255#Comment_117961255

That's brilliant 😀

sydthebeat

Never seen a thread so full of "I'm not a racist, but...."

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961693#Comment_117961693

But your forgetting their key argument of something something BLM..... Which means to them it's not racist to support racists who are engaging in a racist act in booing players taking part in an anti racism gesture.

Something something BLM? Bless your heart Robert, the "something something" part is quite important and has been explained countless times at this stage.

It's ok though. Keep hollering that everyone who doesn't agree with you is a racist. That'll fix racism. You're doing great.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961368#Comment_117961368

Being a racist doesn't make you stupid in every other aspect and putting up a clever banner that isn't racist isn't actually a racist act.

I'd argue that it's actually prejufuced to assume that it did.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961942#Comment_117961942

Hollering. hahaha. Just because you have some convoluted justification in your head for supporting the racist booing doesn't mean I have to accept it as fact. So yeah something something BLM.

But you keep on championing all those fine boo'ers as mighty fine people the best of people no racism with them.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961944#Comment_117961944

Good strawman there, I never said it wasn't clever nor that racists can't be clever - my point was that when known racists do something that diminish an anti-racism protest my first thought isn't how clever it is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963016#Comment_117963016

Lol convoluted?

"Hey guys, if you don't want the anti racist initiative to have any association with BLM, perhaps use a different gesture than the exact one you just did to support BLM?"

Too complicated for you Robert?

And I see you are using the "fine people" fallacy too. Was that a reference to trump? Please say it was.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961435#Comment_117961435

Do you forget each sentence you type after you hit full stop? In that post alone you claim you both don't see yourself as 'a victim in any way' yet continue to claim that you are being 'bullied' simply because you don't like my opinion about the people you 'understand' and support.

If you read my last post again you might actually understand my opinion - people are fully entitled to disagree with whatever they want but there is a time and place for doing it. Booing and shouting abuse at a peaceful protest isn't that time nor place, especially if it is true that you support the topic being protested and just disagree with the gesture.