Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963248#Comment_117963248

And you are still using the false equivalence fallacy. BLM just like that time Millions of people were exterminated in nazi death camps.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963248#Comment_117963248

"Hey guys, if you don't want the anti racist initiative to have any association with BLM, perhaps use a different gesture than the exact one you just did to support BLM?"

I've already pointed out my support for the BLM movement, I think it's laughable to suggest that people should come on bended knee with suggestions of symbolism that people won't have a problem with. The commentary about the BLM movement and protests and those involved is very similar to what was said about civil rights activists and the wider movement of the 60's. There is (or at least there were) dedicated threads on here to discuss that topic rather than dragging this thread further off topic.

Repeatedly stating you have an issue with a movement specifically asking for the fair and equal treatment for one particular movement within society is not the flex you think it is. In fact, I think it is why there is the circular discussion here at this point with you adamant that you are not racist, and with others adamant that acting in a way that pleases racists also can be called out.

I'm not asking people to come on bended knee with a suggestion (good pun though) and have not attempted to "flex".

And yes, I am adamant that I am not racist. I feel it is **** lunacy that I need to keep repeating it. I couldn't give a flying **** if racists were pleased by my opinions. It's not my issue. My opinions dont come from a racist place so I have no need to change them.

People on here continue to say (infer actually, most aren't willing to actually accuse people of racism) that any opposition to taking the knee is racist.

It simply isn't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963471#Comment_117963471

Never said that Robert.

Not even once.

Didn't even allude to it.

Keep trying though.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963643#Comment_117963643

But it does please racists. No denying that. And when someone is doing something which pleases racists, should it not be queried as to the logic behind it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963363#Comment_117963363

No I dont.

I'm not a victim. Not even a bit. Because I choose not to be and at this stage, people like you alluding to me being racist is water off a ducks back. But the tactic that you and others use to label others who don't agree with you as racist is a bullying technique.

I read your post, I understand your opinion. I just disagree with it. I think the kneeling gesture is open to derision.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963663#Comment_117963663

No.

I don't consider what racists would think when I form an opinion about racism. It wouldn't even occur to me to do so. I am not a racist and don't give a **** what they think.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963246#Comment_117963246

Eh - you just did - "... when known racists do something..."

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961550#Comment_117961550

I'm not for or against the gesture, the issue I have is the booing, more particularly the types of people doing the booing. It takes a special kind of arsehole to boo your own team before a ball has even been kicked and give the culture of the fanbases who have booed it - racist arseholes at that. If you want to lump yourself in with them, "good for you".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963766#Comment_117963766

I'm not lumping myself in with them. I'm against the gesture myself but probably wouldn't boo. I don't believe that all who oppose the gesture or all that boo are racist and do believe that using the gesture itself is either incredibly idiotic or incredibly manipulative.

It takes a special kind of arsehole who would twist that opinion and take it to mean they are racist or racist enablers.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963790#Comment_117963790

Why is it it only certain fanbases boo it?.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963739#Comment_117963739

'When you take into account that the fanbase of that club has a serious history of racism - clever isn't the first thing that comes to mind'

The above is my full post where you built the strawman that I claimed 'Being a racist doesn't make you stupid in every other aspect'.

My thoughts are pretty consistent no matter the topic, if another club with known neo nazi links put up a banner mocking an anti-Semitism protest, 'clever' wouldn't be the first thing that came to mind - no matter what the content. The context should and does matter about how people respond to things.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963669#Comment_117963669

hahahahaha People like you.......

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963823#Comment_117963823

Exactly

"The context should and does matter about how people respond to things."

Using the knee for this initiative DIRECTLY after using it for BLM is the context and is why a lot of people responded negatively towards the gesture.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963802#Comment_117963802

I can assure you it was widespread. Most people don't bother now because they have grown bored.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963883#Comment_117963883

You can assure me all you want, but it doesn't make it so. The places where is was booed and wasn't booed was wholly predictable.

"They got bored with it", that's the best you can come up with, really?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963823#Comment_117963823

No you're not. You've commented on the idea, the club, the fanbase and the people who actually created the banner as if they were all the same.

In any case, being or not being racist has no connection to the idea (no matter how clever it was) or agreeing with/criticising the idea of takigng the knee.

For the umpteenth time: you can be against the idea of taking the knee and NOT be racist. And you can support a team without being racist.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964004#Comment_117964004

Good to see from your goalpost moving that you've now accepted that I never claimed 'Being a racist doesn't make you stupid in every other aspect'.

Now you've built up another strawman, I have to repost my statement for the third time:

'When you take into account that the fanbase of that club has a serious history of racism - clever isn't the first thing that comes to mind'

I spoke specifically about the fanbase, the same fanbase that have a laundry list of sanctions from UEFA for racist chants and banners (as well as violence and anti-Semitism). To judge this banner in isolation from this long racist record is naive at best.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963996#Comment_117963996

I'm not disagreeing that in the expected places that it was more vocal. It would be silly to think it would be otherwise. However it was indeed widespread.

And yes, people are bored with it. A lot of people who voiced their displeasure who were doing it for non racist reasons have grown tired of it. Their voices were heard, they were ignored and life goes on.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963873#Comment_117963873

You aren't helping yourself here at all.

The context that is needed to justify booing any form of anti-racism protest should need to be incredibly serious, not the tangential 'I get to do what I want because I'm feigning outrage' nonsense that you and the boo'ers are using.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964181#Comment_117964181

Lol. I don't need to "help myself".

Any link to BLM is very serious in my (and many others) book.

No feigning of outrage. Just a genuine belief that any gesture that was synonymous with BLM shouldn't be used in this specific initiative.

Keep trying to say that I am saying otherwise. It's fine with me.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964198#Comment_117964198

Just so I don't misquote you, can you list the reasons why you're so outraged by the BLM organization? There is the 'greatest hits' that boo'ers I've seen interviewed and a certain type of poster on this site claim why they are outraged by them but I'd like to make sure I'm specific here (as you really get annoyed when people misquote you)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964253#Comment_117964253

It's quite well laid out in the BLM thread, I've no intention of dragging this thread into a BLM thread.

Cliff notes for you though, the violence, the manifesto, the race baiting etc.

Misquoting isn't half as bad as being misrepresented.

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117376219#Comment_117376219

It's bloody song FFS. How do you disrespect a "song".

Those who fight for justice and principles are patriots.

Those who fawn before the shallow symbols of the State such as flags, emblems, anthems and monuments are cowards.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964178#Comment_117964178

When did this widespread booing take place then? It wasn't at the Euros, except for Hungary v Belgium, even in the English matches the booing was barely audile above the applause. Only a handful of matches were played with fans in the domestic and European competitions in the last two seasons. There was booing at a Colchester v Millwall match and a West Ham game around the same time. The was a bit booing by Chelsea fans at FA Cup final but was quickly drowned out by applause. The only incident I'm aware this season is Burnley fans when they played Brighton. Then there's incidents involving former Eastern bloc countries, to be expected. If you were to guess which set of supporters would boo that list would be Millwall, Chelsea, West Ham and Burnley. Home fans at nearly all the other Premier League grounds were never going to boo the gesture and the proof is - they never have. It was never widespread and it not being widespread now has feck all to do with boredom.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964508#Comment_117964508

BLM are patriots? Lol ok

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964141#Comment_117964141

I've said that several times over the post of the thread, and you are still saying/implying that the idea came form a fanbase which is racist, which I'm saying has no bearing on whether or not the idea is clever.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964787#Comment_117964787

Think this is going to be the first time I've had to repost myself for a 4th time in a thread because the poster keeps clinging to a strawman they created.

'When you take into account that the fanbase of that club has a serious history of racism - clever isn't the first thing that comes to mind'

I clearly never said it wasn't clever, I said that clever isn't the first thing that comes to mind given their racist history.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965021#Comment_117965021

I'd argue that the you're the same thing using different words.

"Clever is not the word the comes to mind" is pretty much the same thing as "not clever" and trying to deny it and hide behind a false claim is you trying to save face is moving the goalposts. You wouldn't have to repeat yourself if you didn't deny saying the same thing four times.

Leaving you here. You can say it a fifth or sixth time if you like, it's not going to change anyone's perception and I'm not going to read it so knowkc yourself out.

ShatterAlan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964650#Comment_117964650

I think they ARE.

What's your definition of a patriot? In fact what's your definition of anything? Patriotism and Nationalism are the last refuge of a scoundrel, in case you hadn't heard. Rosa Parks refused to sit at the back of the bus with the rest of the n*ggers. Was she a patriot or a terrorist...that term that's bandied around as if in means something anymore.

If a Black Man or Woman has to slavishly stand hand on heart as the anthem is played, proclaiming freedom and justice and the Land of the Free and all that useless crap, and meanwhile the man is there to kick a ball and play a fcuking game, and all the while that flag and all the dolts and saps are jerking off over it and the man who is there to kick a ball has to stand like a puppet and all the while his peers are being beaten to death by corrupt cops or that flag is fluttering and everyone should just gaze starry eyed.

We have football players from Ireland expected to wear a poppy on their shirts to honour all those British soldiers killed in battle, and for what? Why should a sportsman have to bow to political pressure?

Don't play your bullsh1t anthem at a simple sports event with your bombers flying overhead and a bunch of asshole soldiers marching onto a field with their guns and their uniforms and expect people to just bow. FUCK THAT.

Kapernick refused to stand like a good little negro as that anthem was played. And that is called integrity. He became a pariah. He had people threaten his life...his LIFE...because he wasn't a flag-bitch. Even the president [Trump] demanded he be sanctioned and fired for not being a good little bitch.

I have been to Croke Park and when Amhrain na bhFiann was played I never stood up like a wanker facing the flag. I was also in Shea Stdium at a Mets baseball game and the anthem came on. Some fat asshole looked at me and demanded I stood up. I told hime to F.O. The stupid cnut probably couldn't state the capital of his own state let alonre what the FIRST AMENDMENT was.

BLM are patriots. Anyone who fights for their rights is a patriot. Anyone who disagrees is a quisling and a coward.