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Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

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    #332
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,081 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What poster? Could you quote where they said that? I seem to have missed anyone making such a claim.
    It's literally on the page back

    Quote: Cordell
    Well, is there? I mean a real problem, not that casual racism of some fans?
    Europe has no history of racism as US does, why pretend that it has?
    If they really care about black lives, there are plenty of black lives lost in Africa to war and starvation, and not to racism.[/b]


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    #333
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    jakiah wrote: »
    So is taking a knee currently associated with the Black Lives Matter political movement or not?

    This is their go to tactic. Take a pure truth, like that BLM have Marxist roots, then try and turn it into something ridiculous or conspiratorial, even though a quick Google search will show you that it's true.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #334
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gmisk wrote: »
    It's literally on the page back

    Quote: Cordell
    Well, is there? I mean a real problem, not that casual racism of some fans?
    Europe has no history of racism as US does, why pretend that it has?
    If they really care about black lives, there are plenty of black lives lost in Africa to war and starvation, and not to racism.

    Context. It's important.

    Oh, I don't agree with him, but you misrepresented his post.


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    #335
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    Danzy wrote: »
    Regardless of education levels. Africans out perform Americans of the same education level.

    The biggest challenge that African Americans face is class issues and the incredibly toxic culture that has taken hold in many African American urban areas.

    While the rich white kids were marching for BLM last Summer, an entire generation of black owned businesses were burnt out and robbed.

    In 20 years, those African American communities will still be trying to get back to where they were.

    #BLMsoWhite.

    Never mind the silly hashtag nonsense :pac:

    That toxic culture is as a result of a couple of centuries of being downtrodden.

    Yes, black people have a responsibility to improve this but the system in the US is still rigged against them so not easy to do.

    They are badly let down by a lot of community leaders being corrupt etc also.


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    #336
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gmisk wrote: »
    That poster literally said "Europe has no history of racism".
    I literally pointed out that it has....a long one....
    A simple question are there racist incidents in Europe still...yes or no?

    The poor oppressed white person nonsense....absolutely laughable.

    So they had white privilege in the BallyMurphy massacre?

    Most of Europe wasn’t involved in the slave trade, those that were are generally the ones in the orbit of the US and involved in continuous imperialism. Maybe protest that.
    There is an opening in the telegraph and always time for you in the Daily Mail if you are looking to whine about white people being oppressed, migrants and not being able to say "anything these days" have at it.

    He’s probably Irish not British. The dominant group in Britain by the way isn’t “white” it’s English. Whiteness is an entirely American concept.


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    #337
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,081 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Context. It's important.

    Oh, I don't agree with him, but you misrepresented his post.
    It's literally highlighted in bold....the as US does part doesn't change the point imo.
    Europe has a longer and more horrific history when it comes to that area is the point.


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    #338
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I see sheep wrote: »
    This is the funniest thing I've read in ages, thanks for the laugh :pac:

    Another cheap tactic. No counter argument, just mockery. I'd hate to follow a belief system that can't stand on the ground of argumentative strength, who seem to rely on insults and mockery alone as a counter to arguments.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #339
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    extra gravy wrote: »
    20210609-105337.jpg

    19324029-401.jpg


    They're a great bunch of lads sure and not a racist amongst them I'd say.

    Are you big into football yourself?


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    #340
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    jakiah wrote: »
    Are we now saying that all football fans are racist?

    Nope, are you? It's well known that there is a sizeable racist element amongst England fans. Why do you think they would boo the players taking the knee?


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    #341
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    This is their go to tactic. Take a pure truth, like that BLM have Marxist roots, then try and turn it into something ridiculous or conspiratorial, even though a quick Google search will show you that it's true.
    The whole 'marxism' bit is a reach. Personally I dont care about the particular political ideology, I dont want any political movements or gestures made such an overt part of the offical matchday experience.


    I found the poppy nonsense farcical and I find this farcical. I see a lot of people who followed UK football and objected to the poppy propaganda suddenly change their tune for this 'anti-racism or something' protest. Its hypocrisy of the highest order.


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    #342
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mimon wrote: »
    How the hell do you think their society was created and perpetuated in the first place?

    Holy Jaysus give me strength but some of the commentry here with zero thought for the contexts/background is laughable.

    I don't know bu I assume you blame white people for all the problems? How do you propose their society be improved? Africans are arriving to America and leapfrogging black Americans in terms of wealth etc. They are not being discriminated against on the colour of the skin. On the contrary the drive for diversity, affirmative action etc is arguably helping them. What more should white people do, and is there something within black communities that could change also? A mindset shift perhaps?


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    #343
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    jakiah wrote: »
    The whole 'marxism' bit is a reach. Personally I dont care about the particular political ideology, I dont want any political movements or gestures made an official part of the matchday experience.


    I found the poppy nonsense farcical and I find this farcical. I see a lot of people who followed UK football and objected to the poppy propaganda suddenly change their tune for this 'anti-racism or something' protest. Its hypocrisy of the highest order.

    It's not a reach at all. The leaders of the movement in America are self-admitted Marxists.

    Black Lives Matter co-founder describes herself as ‘trained Marxist’
    Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.

    Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview, Breitbart News reported.

    “The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.

    “We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #344
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    extra gravy wrote: »
    Nope, are you? It's well known that there is a sizeable racist element amongst England fans. Why do you think they would boo the players taking the knee?
    Probably because they object to this political jingoism which doesnt seem to have any defined meaning being inserted into the matchday for every game they attend for over a year? Were you on here complaining when Celtic fans protested the poppy being foisted on them during their matchdays?


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    #345
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,081 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So they had white privilege in the BallyMurphy massacre?

    Most of Europe wasn’t involved in the slave trade, those that were are generally the ones in the orbit of the US and involved in continuous imperialism. Maybe protest that.

    He’s probably Irish not British. The dominant group in Britain by the way isn’t “white” it’s English. Whiteness is an entirely American concept.
    What the hell has the ballymurphy massacre got to do with anything? The people were not killed due to the colour of their skin....people are killed for other reasons in that case religion.
    I am from Northern ireland ffs.

    I have no idea what point you are trying to make with on last paragraph.


  • Options
    #346
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    jakiah wrote: »
    The whole 'marxism' bit is a reach. Personally I dont care about the particular political ideology, I dont want any political movements or gestures made such an overt part of the offical matchday experience.


    I found the poppy nonsense farcical and I find this farcical. I see a lot of people who followed UK football and objected to the poppy propaganda suddenly change their tune for this 'anti-racism or something' protest. Its hypocrisy of the highest order.

    Seems to be some stock in the Marxist allegations. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8J68p5l-gjQ


  • Options
    #347
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jaykay74 wrote: »
    Whats your opinion on loaded questions ? :D

    I believe that if you can't answer them without it showing your hypocrisy, people tend to deflect away and do anything not to answer them.


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    #348
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    It's not a reach at all. The leaders of the movement in America are self-admitted Marxists.
    So if BLM werent Marxists taking the knee would be fine?


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    #349
    Wombatman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    extra gravy wrote: »
    You think you know more about it than a top black player? Do please share your knowledge and experience of racism in football.

    Do you seriously believe that the level racism in football, which is reflective of the level of racism in society, is at 'an all time high'?


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    #350
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gmisk wrote: »
    It's literally highlighted in bold....the as US does part doesn't change the point imo.
    Europe has a longer and more horrific history when it comes to that area is the point.

    Except, it doesn't. Slavery of Black people in Europe was extremely rare, and there wasn't any kind of significant population of Black people in Europe until after the end of empire system. The actions of Europeans as part of colonialism was abhorrent, however, since the late 60s Europe has sought to put that past behind them. In fact, very few Europeans, beyond those who operated within the colonial systems abroad, had any contact with Black people.

    Europe doesn't have the systematic racism that is present in the US. Nor does it have the divides along racial lines that exists in the US. There are degrees of racism in Europe, but it's nothing like the US, and any attempt to suggest that it does, inevitably seeks to rewrite history.

    Look at any West European nations, and you will find cultures that find racism to be unacceptable, with laws in place to protect the rights of any racial group. Can you honestly say that this is not the case?


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    #351
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    jakiah wrote: »
    So if BLM werent Marxists taking the knee would be fine?

    And the goal posts are moved. I never said anything as such, I'm simply countering the downplaying of the narrative about Marxism & BLM. I don't support BLM regardless, as I think the majority of cases they use are full of twisted truths.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #352
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    gmisk wrote: »
    That poster literally said "Europe has no history of racism".
    I literally pointed out that it has....a long one....
    A simple question are there racist incidents in Europe still...yes or no?

    The poor oppressed white person nonsense....absolutely laughable.

    There is an opening in the telegraph and always time for you in the Daily Mail if you are looking to whine about white people being oppressed, migrants and not being able to say "anything these days" have at it.

    I don't think I'm oppressed not sure where you got that notion.
    a weird leap or projection based on my post.

    In fact, the essence of my post on this thread would indicate that I'm not oppressed in any way cos I reject the message being projected and I feel fine doing so.
    fvp4 wrote: »
    He’s probably Irish not British. The dominant group in Britain by the way isn’t “white” it’s English. Whiteness is an entirely American concept.

    I am irish. I don't really identify with anything beyond that but I am white and will tell anybody who sells me a negative spin on my colour to GTFO.

    But I agree with you on whiteness... it's a artificially created concept from the media/academia in the US.


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    #353
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    jakiah wrote: »
    Probably because they object to this political jingoism which doesnt seem to have any defined meaning being inserted into the matchday for every game they attend for over a year?

    Racist element of fanbase boo anti-racism message because they don't like the "political jingoism" on display. Ha good one. And they haven't attended games for over a year.


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    #354
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »
    Ain't that the truth, a load of white Irish lads claiming to know better about racism than the people who actually experience it.

    Delusional.

    America has totally colonised your mind. Irish people in Britain have experienced both racist and sectarian abuse. Irish players in the U.K., like mcclean, have experienced racist and sectarian abuse. Many of main songs of the British football fans are anti Irish (or supposedly anti ira), I kept my mouth shut in a London pub when English fans came in singing that song, and left quickly.

    Neil Lennon was viciously attacked nearly every day he was a manager.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/02/neil-lennon-sectarianism-racism-hibernian-scotland

    Whiteness my arse.


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    #355
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    And the goal posts are moved. I never said anything as such, I'm simply countering the downplaying of the narrative about Marxism & BLM. I don't support BLM regardless, as I think the majority of cases they use are full of twisted truths.
    The goalposts are not moved. Its a nonsense to support this stuff when you agree with its political motivations and oppose it when you dont. Overtly political messaging should never have been made part of the offical matchday in football, and its ludicrous that its still going on.


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    #356
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,081 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Except, it doesn't. Slavery of Black people in Europe was extremely rare, and there wasn't any kind of significant population of Black people in Europe until after the end of empire system. The actions of Europeans as part of colonialism was abhorrent, however, since the late 60s Europe has sought to put that past behind them. In fact, very few Europeans, beyond those who operated within the colonial systems abroad, had any contact with Black people.

    Europe doesn't have the systematic racism that is present in the US. Nor does it have the divides along racial lines that exists in the US. There are degrees of racism in Europe, but it's nothing like the US, and any attempt to suggest that it does, inevitably seeks to rewrite history.

    Look at any West European nations, and you will find cultures that find racism to be unacceptable, with laws in place to protect the rights of any racial group. Can you honestly say that this is not the case?
    I am using slavery, colonialism together.
    So it wasn't slavery if it wasn't been done in Europe....
    At least you can admit European colonialism is abhorrent.

    You are also very purposefully segmenting west Europe from the rest for a reason I would suggest..

    There are massive divides along racial lines in a lot of places in Europe, Paris is one of the worst examples.
    Just because (west) Europe isn't perceived as being as racist as the US in general now....it's a fairly low bar.


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    #357
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,838 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The good must be taken with the bad.

    What are considered universal human rights today are European values.

    Slavery has largely reduced to it's West African heartlands due to Europeans ending it in most of the world, at gunpoint.

    The most open, fairest and tolerant societies to have ever existed are in Europe and North America,Oz,NZ.


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    #358
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I see sheep wrote: »
    This is the funniest thing I've read in ages, thanks for the laugh :pac:

    You don't think? The 4 kids in particular were each trapped until one of the cops basically adopted one of them and essentially wrenched him out of the community.


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    #359
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    Ah here they all are, all the lads, outing themselves as usual.. Sometimes it seems like there are loads of them on boards, in fact there's only about 49-50 of them


    none of em are racists though, of course not.


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    #360
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    extra gravy wrote: »
    Racist element of fanbase boo anti-racism message because they don't like the "political jingoism" on display. Ha good one. And they haven't attended games for over a year.
    I disagree with your contention that anyone who opposes x political message being inserted into football automatically opposes the message.

    We are going to have to listen to a month of this horse**** now with the Euros, where matchgoing fans who object to the politicisation of football are all branded racists by idiots who have never been anywhere near a football ground.


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    #361
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    jakiah wrote: »
    I disagree with your contention that anyone who opposes x political message being inserted into football automatically opposes the message.

    We are going to have to listen to a month of this horse**** now with the Euros, where matchgoing fans who object to the politicisation of football are all branding racists by idiots who have never been anywhere near a football ground.

    Hey it's better than listening to vuvuzelas


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