Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Mad_maxx

banie01 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that taking the knee is a gesture in support of radical terrorism?
I mean really and honestly?

Do you believe it is in any way appropriate to denigrate people trying to make a point in a peaceful and dignified manner?

Do you believe that Colin Kaepernick was wrong?
That the players in the UK and Europe who are still choosing to take a knee are wrong?
That their effort to highlight social inequality and injustice is actually giving succour to terrorism?

"Taking the knee is cow towing to dogmatic WOKEness

Keep politics out of sport

event

Keep politics out of sport?

From football fans who go mental if anyone disrespects the poppy.
Who constantly sing about 2 world wars and 1 world cup.
Who regularly chant about no surrender to the IRA.

But now that some players are taking a knee, now they want politics out of sport. Good one lads

Retr0gamer

TefalBrain wrote: »

It's this picking and choosing of what's acceptable to protest also that is ridiculous. Where are the football stars taking a stand against the treatment of the Uighur Muslims? Why is LeBron James worked up about taking the knee but supporting a regime that is practicing enforced sterilisation, torture and indeed genocide.

It's taking the knee against racism of all types. It's the racists that see it as o my taking the knee for racism against black people so they can tow out the whataboutery argument about what about the Irish/Palestinians/uighurs etc.

Tacitus Kilgore

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

No point, not going to change the minds of racists - I can't directly point out who is one as I'd get banned, plus - it's more fun to let them out themselves by responding to posts that weren't directed at them

Ah I see. No point, not going to change the mind of racists. So why the knee then? If not to just signal that you are "one of the good guys".

I respond to most of these types of blanket accusations as I am often mislabelled as a racist for my views and people often do what you just did and circumnavigate bans by playing little word games which escape infractions.

The reason for doing so is to wind up people by alluding to the fact they are racist (when more often than not, they aren't) and to get them banned for defending themselves against a disgusting insult.

Its a very dishonest way to engage with people and adds nothing to the discussion except shut it down.

The last sentence I assume was to make it out that I have "outed myself" followed by a smiliey face. I don't need to out myself.

My opinions are not hidden, clear and pretty much consistent and I would welcome and invite anyone to tell me why, in their opinion, I am a racist with specific examples and including context.

I've never gotten an answer.

That's the thing with racism. It's usually very easy to prove. Yet most who scream racist on here either refuse to (or more than likely can't) provide evidence.

bucketybuck

extra gravy wrote: »

Yet you and others here are complaining about footballers expressing their opinion. The irony.

I doubt anybody would care about a footballer expressing an opinion. Want to take a knee, fine, don't want to take a knee, also fine.

But that isn't the case, instead all players have to take the knee and god help the first white guy who says he doesn't want to.

Taking the knee? Might as well call it Ticking the boxes, it is insincere tokenism at this stage and that sort of thing tends to turn people off.

Images of individual players taking a knee would be far more effective. Like when a sub comes on and you see the player touching the ground and blessing themselves, what if that was the player taking a knee for a few seconds instead, that would be individual and sincere.

Instead we have the Sky Sports mandatory pre match knee ritual that you just know most of the players couldn't give a toss about. Who is that supposed to help?

Mad_maxx

event wrote: »

Keep politics out of sport?

From football fans who go mental if anyone disrespects the poppy.
Who constantly sing about 2 world wars and 1 world cup.
Who regularly chant about no surrender to the IRA.

But now that some players are taking a knee, now they want politics out of sport. Good one lads

It's just performative WOKEness , it has no other goal

A form of religious piety only with a progressive creed

Retr0gamer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Realistically, what do you see changing due to the raising of awareness about racism? (Although I suspect most were already aware of it happening)

Let's see some specifics, as to what will improve? Do you believe that those who are racist will be affected by the taking of the knee? Or is this directed at those who aren't racist?

The way I see it it's for people to realise that its not acceptable anymore. I myself have taken a stand where if I hear someone being racist I won't sit sheepishly there feeling awkward. I'll argue with them and point out that their 'im not racist but...' is disgusting.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

Realistically, what do you see changing due to the raising of awareness about racism? (Although I suspect most were already aware of it happening)

Let's see some specifics, as to what will improve? Do you believe that those who are racist will be affected by the taking of the knee? Or is this directed at those who aren't racist?

The racist of today are not going to change, but it isn't aimed at them.

It is aimed at giving minorties a sense that they are not alone. That this is something that is being focused on. That yound people can get behind and change wil happen.

What did you expect, that racism would simply disappear in a few weeks? Look at deomcracy in many countires, getting rid of communism in others, hell even trying to break the strangle hold the catholic church had over the running of Ireland.

These things take time, they take constant reinforcement that it is no longer acceptable.

And it is working. The football supporters are being faced with a dilemma. They hate what the players are doing, but the logical extension is to stop supporting. But they love football. A choice is coming and they don't want to face that choice so the easiest thing to do is to try to cancel it.

jakiah

event wrote: »

Keep politics out of sport?

From football fans who go mental if anyone disrespects the poppy.
Who constantly sing about 2 world wars and 1 world cup.
Who regularly chant about no surrender to the IRA.

But now that some players are taking a knee, now they want politics out of sport. Good one lads

Theres no keeping politics out of football. Having cherry-picked political causes like the poppy or BLM sanctioned as part of the official matchday by the football authorities is another matter altogether.

Is football not volatile enough already without the enormous hypocrisy of allowing some official political stances, inserting them permanently into matchday, and disallowing others? Like what did they expect would happen?

Retr0gamer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's just performative WOKEness , it has no other goal

A form of religious piety only with a progressive creed

The opposite of which is being a racist.

I'll stand on the right side of future history thank you very much.

Leroy42

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's just performative WOKEness , it has no other goal

A form of religious piety only with a progressive creed

By Wokeness, do you mean they are aware of the injustices of others? Do you see that as a bad thing?

You think they are doing it for sh1ts and giggles, that they don't actually believe it? That they enjoy getting booed and the abuse they will get on social media? But sure its a great laugh?

I find that hard to believe that anybody would welcome the attitude and blowback they are getting for something they don't even care about.

banie01

Mad_maxx wrote: »

"Taking the knee is cow towing to dogmatic WOKEness

Keep politics out of sport

As has been pointed out at length on the thread by many posters.
Politics and sport are intertwined and always have been.
The Olympic notion of apolitical sports or FIFA's rule to exclude political action are complete Bollox.
Sport is quite often the arena where political action is most ardent.
From Franco and Madrid, Argentina and the Falklands, Us at anything we play the Brits in.
It's always subject to at least a potential political undercurrent.
Further, attempting to raise awareness.
Attempting to at least make those engaging in racist comment and action feel uncomfortable, is hardly political.
Unless one supports the theory of balance? Should the racists and naysayers be afforded a right of equal reply?
Should we ensure that those undertaking racist and abusive action are at least comfortable in the safe space of a stadium?
Does denigrating a footballer choosing to take part in a non violent form of silent protest?
Carry the same moral weight as the initial protest?

Hanging this action on the hook of BLM, or claiming Racism is an American problem is a cop out IMO.
There is huge academic and statistical evidence supporting Racial Inequality around the world.
Not just against blacks, but in society where there is an imbalance between races and ethnicities.

Surely aiming for equality, equity and balance in social justice and outcomes?
Is a view to be lauded?
Not attacked?

jakiah

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's taking the knee against racism of all types.

Says who? When did this start and the BLM association stop? Can you provide a link which defines the goals, expected outcomes etc for this movement?

Not the first time youve been asked.

Danzy

bucketybuck wrote: »

I doubt anybody would care about a footballer expressing an opinion. Want to take a knee, fine, don't want to take a knee, also fine.

But that isn't the case, instead all players have to take the knee and god help the first white guy who says he doesn't want to.

Taking the knee? Might as well call it Ticking the boxes, it is insincere tokenism at this stage and that sort of thing tends to turn people off.

Images of individual players taking a knee would be far more effective. Like when a sub comes on and you see the player touching the ground and blessing themselves, what if that was the player taking a knee for a few seconds instead, that would be individual and sincere.

Instead we have the Sky Sports mandatory pre match knee ritual that you just know most of the players couldn't give a toss about. Who is that supposed to help?

It's like going to mass, in many ways, performative art, going along to avoid trouble, Pleasing the powers that be and avoiding condemnation from the pulpit or the local holy Joes.

Staying in with the in crowd.

Rothko

TomTomTim wrote: »

Another cheap tactic. No counter argument, just mockery. I'd hate to follow a belief system that can't stand on the ground of argumentative strength, who seem to rely on insults and mockery alone as a counter to arguments.

I see that a lot. They won't explain why someone is "ignorant", "stupid" or "racist". Instead, they'll just make some lame insult or assumption about the poster. It shows that they can't competently argue their point and makes their position seem even weaker.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

The football supporters are being faced with a dilemma. They hate what the players are doing, but the logical extension is to stop supporting. But they love football. A choice is coming and they don't want to face that choice so the easiest thing to do is to try to cancel it.

Or....

They could boo when the players do something they dislike and then afterwards, cheer when they do something they do like.

It's not either/or

Leroy42

jakiah wrote: »

Theres no keeping politics out of football. Having cherry-picked political causes like the poppy or BLM sanctioned as part of the official matchday by the football authorities is another matter altogether.

Is football not volatile enough already without the enormous hypocrisy of allowing some official political stances, inserting them permanently into matchday, and disallowing others? Like what did they expect would happen?

I think they probably expected that people would act in a mature and reasoned way and that 'suuporters' would refrain from booing their own team before the match has even started.

I think that is a pretty reasonable expectation. What impact does the kneeling have on the supporters? What terrible injustice is it inflicting? It takes, what a minute? Look at your phone, or just be silent for a little while. Is that really too much to ask to people would show some respect. Forget about BLM and racism, to boo your own team takes a special kind of craziness and still deem yourself a supporter

Danzy

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The opposite of which is being a racist.

I'll stand on the right side of future history thank you very much.

Archbishop McQuaid lives.

extra gravy

Poster: Gets more outraged by anti-racism messages than they do about actual racism itself.

Also poster: "I'm not racist!"

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

By Wokeness, do you mean they are aware of the injustices of others? Do you see that as a bad thing?

You think they are doing it for sh1ts and giggles, that they don't actually believe it? That they enjoy getting booed and the abuse they will get on social media? But sure its a great laugh?

I find that hard to believe that anybody would welcome the attitude and blowback they are getting for something they don't even care about.

The potential damage to their sponsorship deals far outweigh the abuse on social media or boos.

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

Poster: Gets more outraged by anti-racism messages than they do about actual racism itself.

Also poster: "I'm not racist!"

You keep repeating that rhetoric.

Can you point to some examples?

Retr0gamer

jakiah wrote: »

Says who? When did this start and the BLM association stop? Can you provide a link which defines the goals, expected outcomes etc for this movement?

Not the first time youve been asked.

I don't need to. It's already been explained. Go back through the posts and someone has quoted one of the players that took the knee. He specifically said it was against racism. He never said specifically racism against black people.

Dont take it from me. Take it from the actual people that took the knee. Unless of course you know better.

Btw the burden of proof is on you to show the evidence buy I just helped you out there. So next time respond to your own ridiculous questions with evidence.

jakiah

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think they probably expected that people would act in a mature and reasoned way and that 'suuporters' would refrain from booing their own team before the match has even started.

LOL, football supporters acting in a mature and reasoned way, pull the other one.

They arent booing their own team, they are booing the gesture. Its not complicated.

Retr0gamer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah I see. No point, not going to change the mind of racists. So why the knee then? If not to just signal that you are "one of the good guys".

I respond to most of these types of blanket accusations as I am often mislabelled as a racist for my views and people often do what you just did and circumnavigate bans by playing little word games which escape infractions.

The reason for doing so is to wind up people by alluding to the fact they are racist (when more often than not, they aren't) and to get them banned for defending themselves against a disgusting insult.

Its a very dishonest way to engage with people and adds nothing to the discussion except shut it down.

The last sentence I assume was to make it out that I have "outed myself" followed by a smiliey face. I don't need to out myself.

My opinions are not hidden, clear and pretty much consistent and I would welcome and invite anyone to tell me why, in their opinion, I am a racist with specific examples and including context.

I've never gotten an answer.

That's the thing with racism. It's usually very easy to prove. Yet most who scream racist on here either refuse to (or more than likely can't) provide evidence.

I'm not racist but....

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

Or....

They could boo when the players do something they dislike and then afterwards, cheer when they do something they do like.

It's not either/or

Of course, but what sort of supporters boo their own players?

So I think we can all agree that the supporters are booing because they don't like the plaeyrs taking the knee.

Now it doesn't affect the game, so its not football related. Why are they booing?

jakiah

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I don't need to. It's already been explained. Go back through the posts and someone has quoted one of the players that took the knee. He specifically said it was against racism. He never said specifically racism against black people.

Dont take it from me. Take it from the actual people that took the knee. Unless of course you know better.

Btw the burden of proof is on you to show the evidence buy I just helped you out there. So next time respond to your own ridiculous questions with evidence.

Yeah, didnt think you had a link. One guy says its about this, another guy says its about that. Its about whatever you want really, it can change over time and anyone who opposes it opposes whatever your current interpretation is. Ridiculous.

Strumms

jakiah wrote: »

Theres no keeping politics out of football. Having cherry-picked political causes like the poppy or BLM sanctioned as part of the official matchday by the football authorities is another matter altogether.

Is football not volatile enough already without the enormous hypocrisy of allowing some official political stances, inserting them permanently into matchday, and disallowing others? Like what did they expect would happen?

There is the problem.... where does it stop ?

BLM ? Then....Cause #2, cause #3 .... the players would be out on the pitch 40 minutes before kickoff...ffs

Poppy ? It happens on one weekend... BLM are not happy with that recognition and championing of their cause on one weekend they want it at every match, every division, every competition day during the seasons, literally thousands of matches...

The gatekeepers of the sport need a swift kick in the temporal lobes for allowing this...

event

event wrote: »

Keep politics out of sport?

From football fans who go mental if anyone disrespects the poppy.
Who constantly sing about 2 world wars and 1 world cup.
Who regularly chant about no surrender to the IRA.

But now that some players are taking a knee, now they want politics out of sport. Good one lads

Most fans would like to get rid of all of those things to be honest. The ones who sing about world wars and IRA are the dregs of society who compensate for their failed lives by feeling tough in the crowd who follow England to away matches. Total low-life cowards. Not representative.

Danzy

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not racist but....

... You see yourself as a white saviour and educator of the heathen Proles.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not racist but....

My god.

If I could have constructed a reply to prove my point any more succinctly, it would have been this.

Ticks all the boxes. Enough to be a pointed accusation of racism, but not specific enough to receive an infraction, no proof, no discussion, just a dig and an attempt to paint me as a racist with zero examples.

Thanks