Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Leroy42

jakiah wrote: »

LOL, football supporters acting in a mature and reasoned way, pull the other one.

They arent booing their own team, they are booing the gesture. Its not complicated.

But their team is doing the gesture. You think the players taking the knee on the pitch don't think the boos are direct at them?

You are right, it isn't complicated. This action has no impact on the supporters, yet for some it is a step too far. How dare the players make a statement that I don't personaly agree with.

As you rightly suggest, expecting football suppoeters to be mature and reaoned is silly. So much so that I think it pretty safe that we can simply ignore whatever they are saying as they havn't given it too much thought.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

My god.

If I could have constructed a reply to prove my point any more succinctly, it would have been this.

Ticks all the boxes. Enough to be a pointed accusation of racism, but not specific enough to receive an infraction, no proof, no discussion, just a dig and an attempt to paint me as a racist with zero examples.

Thanks

The Dunne, what in particular, is your issue with the players taking the knee?

Tacitus Kilgore

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah I see. No point, not going to change the mind of racists. So why the knee then? If not to just signal that you are "one of the good guys".

I respond to most of these types of blanket accusations as I am often mislabelled as a racist for my views and people often do what you just did and circumnavigate bans by playing little word games which escape infractions.

The reason for doing so is to wind up people by alluding to the fact they are racist (when more often than not, they aren't) and to get them banned for defending themselves against a disgusting insult.

Its a very dishonest way to engage with people and adds nothing to the discussion except shut it down.

The last sentence I assume was to make it out that I have "outed myself" followed by a smiliey face. I don't need to out myself.

My opinions are not hidden, clear and pretty much consistent and I would welcome and invite anyone to tell me why, in their opinion, I am a racist with specific examples and including context.

I've never gotten an answer.

That's the thing with racism. It's usually very easy to prove. Yet most who scream racist on here either refuse to (or more than likely can't) provide evidence.

Nah, I think posters respond to those types of post because they trigger certain posters into a hard defense of their racist views.


One can either own their views or hide behind thin veils - most on here would be the latter, it's hard to debate this type of posting as they're clever enough to keep it just behind the line - so I don't bother.


I don't need to provide proof, or hard evidence, all I need to do is yell racist, and out they will all pop, it's not hard proof but close enough for me.

Rothko

Rothko wrote: »

I see that a lot. They won't explain why someone is "ignorant", "stupid" or "racist". Instead, they'll just make some lame insult or assumption about the poster. It shows that they can't competently argue their point and makes their position seem even weaker.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not racist but....

Didn't take long for another example to pop up.

Rothko

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Nah, I think posters respond to those types of post because they trigger certain posters into a hard defense of their racist views.


One can either own their views or hide behind thin veils - most on here would be the latter, it's hard to debate this type of posting as they're clever enough to keep it just behind the line - so I don't bother.


I don't need to provide proof, or hard evidence, all I need to do is yell racist, and out they will all pop, it's not hard proof but close enough for me.

Or maybe some people don't like seeing others being mindlessly accused of being racist, especially when there is nothing to back it up.

jakiah

Leroy42 wrote: »

But their team is doing the gesture. You think the players taking the knee on the pitch don't think the boos are direct at them?

This thread was started after the Ireland game when Hungary fans booed the opposition team for bending the knee. Is your only objection to fans booing when its their own team doing it?

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course, but what sort of supporters boo their own players?

So I think we can all agree that the supporters are booing because they don't like the plaeyrs taking the knee.

Now it doesn't affect the game, so its not football related. Why are they booing?

Because they disagree with the taking the knee and are entitled to voice their opinion with a boo.

Then when the lads get up and play the football, they can cheer.

If it's nothing to do with football then perhaps the lads could all take a knee off the pitch, in their dressing room etc.

suicide_circus

These footballers remind me of the RTE "stars" who relentless hit all the left wing talking points while simultaneously setting themselves up as individual contracting companies to minimise their tax liabilities. The chief source of disparity of outcomes is and always has been poverty, not racism.

Fr D Maugire

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I don't need to. It's already been explained. Go back through the posts and someone has quoted one of the players that took the knee. He specifically said it was against racism. He never said specifically racism against black people.

Dont take it from me. Take it from the actual people that took the knee. Unless of course you know better.

Btw the burden of proof is on you to show the evidence buy I just helped you out there. So next time respond to your own ridiculous questions with evidence.

If it is about racism in general, why was a gesture adopted that was first used as a protest against police brutality against Black people in the US? There was already a kick-it-out campaign in football so why did taking the knee take over?

Retr0gamer

jakiah wrote: »

Yeah, didnt think you had a link. One guy says its about this, another guy says its about that. Its about whatever you want really, it can change over time and anyone who opposes it opposes whatever your current interpretation is. Ridiculous.

So where is the evidence I am wrong? Burden of proof is on you. Or are you just going to ridicule me because you were too lazy to go back and read the posts?

Tacitus Kilgore

Deleted User wrote: »

That's dangerously close to an admission of baiting for an argument.

Aye, just like how many posters are dangerously close to posting racist stuff on here - but dangerously close isn't it.. is it?

jakiah

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Nah, I think posters respond to those types of post because they trigger certain posters into a hard defense of their racist views.


One can either own their views or hide behind thin veils - most on here would be the latter, it's hard to debate this type of posting as they're clever enough to keep it just behind the line - so I don't bother.


I don't need to provide proof, or hard evidence, all I need to do is yell racist, and out they will all pop, it's not hard proof but close enough for me.

Do you not think it possible that someone would support Black Lives Matter in the context of horrendous police brutality in the US, and simultaneously hold the opinion that players kneeling at Longford Town vs Finn Harps a year after the fact is inappropriate? That the only explanation is racism?

I see sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

You keep repeating that rhetoric.

Can you point to some examples?

Getting more outraged by anti racism than racism itself?

Yes, this whole thread is an example.

Tacitus Kilgore

jakiah wrote: »

Do you not think it possible that someone would support Black Lives Matter in the context of horrendous police brutality in the US, and simultaneously hold the opinion that players kneeling at Longford Town vs Finn Harps a year after the fact is inappropriate? That the only explanation is racism?

Is the current taking of a knee about US police brutality? Sorry I must not be looking at the same reality as yourself

Retr0gamer

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

If it is about racism in general, why was a gesture adopted that was first used as a protest against police brutality against Black people in the US? There was already a kick-it-out campaign in football so why did taking the knee take over?

https://globalnews.ca/news/3769534/martin-luther-king-jr-take-a-knee-history/

Let's try that again.

Sunny Disposition

Booing in general is terrible, and a blight on sport. This kind of gets forgotten. Was extremely rare in Ireland one time, but sadly a bit more common now. But booing people taking the knee is disgraceful. Sure, maybe you feel the protest has lost its impact and is a piece of virtual signalling at this stage, but that's no excuse for abusing those doing it.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

Because they disagree with the taking the knee and are entitled to voice their opinion with a boo.

Then when the lads get up and play the football, they can cheer.

If it's nothing to do with football then perhaps the lads could all take a knee off the pitch, in their dressing room etc.

They disagree with players kneeling? So its not the message but the physical act?

Of course they are entitled to their opinion, but that is the contradiciton. They feel entitled to voice their view that the players should stop expressing theirs!

jakiah

Retr0gamer wrote: »

So where is the evidence I am wrong? Burden of proof is on you. Or are you just going to ridicule me because you were too lazy to go back and read the posts?

What are you on about, I asked you to fill me in on what the gesture is actually currently, definitively about and you cant. Its completely open to interpretation apparently.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

The Dunne, what in particular, is your issue with the players taking the knee?

I think it's disingenuous. Although, as has been pointed out, it predates the BLM movement, it has become synonymous with it. Together, with the banners supporting BLM on the screen and in the stadium, the players taking the knee are by proxy or at least being seen to support BLM.

I had no issue with anti racism initiatives such as Kick it Out etc and fully support teams to protect their players from abuse. But I honestly can't stand BLM as a movement and find it divisive and have an issue with anything that even tacitly supports or promotes them.

jakiah

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Is the current taking of a knee about US police brutality? Sorry I must not be looking at the same reality as yourself

What is it about? Is it written down somewhere so I can have a look? Cheers

Tacitus Kilgore

Leroy42 wrote: »

They disagree with players kneeling? So its not the message but the physical act?

Of course they are entitled to their opinion, but that is the contradiciton. They feel entitled to voice their view that the players should stop expressing theirs!

They should only express their opinions when it suits the lads, I'm sure one or two players will come out as opposed to taking the knee - their opinions will be held in high regard i'm sure.

Tacitus Kilgore

jakiah wrote: »

What is it about? Is it written down somewhere so I can have a look? Cheers

racism, in general.

Larbre34

Its like the Formula 1 slogan "we race as one". One what? One massive corporate elitist billion dollar business of the 200 quid ticket? Ask me b0ll1x.

I have no respect for that and no respect for players taking the knee anymore. I respected Kaepernick when he was doing it under massive personal pressure and threat of financial ruin. I massively respect Marcus Rashford, taking his own money and his own time and doing something practical and relevant and impactful for real people. Thats what we need more of, not slogans and empty gestures.

I see sheep

I see sheep wrote: »

Getting more outraged by anti racism than racism itself?

Yes, this whole thread is an example.

Outrage isn't the word I would use.

And no, most people agree racism is bad.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it's disingenuous. Although, as has been pointed out, it predates the BLM movement, it has become synonymous with it. Together, with the banners supporting BLM on the screen and in the stadium, the players taking the knee are by proxy or at least being seen to support BLM.

I had no issue with anti racism initiatives such as Kick it Out etc and fully support teams to protect their players from abuse. But I honestly can't stand BLM as a movement and find it divisive and have an issue with anything that even tacitly supports or promotes them.

OK, so its not the taking the knee itself that you have an issue with, it that you feel that it is in support of BLM that is the problem?

This is what "Idah, who appeared recently on Claire Byrne Live to talk about being black and growing up in Ireland, stated: “Obviously it is disappointing to see the fans in the whole stadium booing us taking the knee. This sport is trying to stop racism and it is a sign to kick racism out of society.

No mention of BLM. It is the overall message of getting rid of racism in society.

silverharp

reeks of peacocking and its inextricably linked with BLM so dont see the point of it.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

Outrage isn't the word I would use.

And no, most people agree racism is bad.

But not bad enough that it should hold up the match getting started?

jakiah

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

racism, in general.

Thanks, can you point to somewhere that says this?

When did it change from its explicit association with Black Lives Matter? There used to be BLM slogans on players jerseys, stadium banners and on TV screens, now there isnt. Why? Is it not reasonable for people to assume the exact gesture which was previously used to support BLM still supports BLM instead of 'racism, in general'?

Retr0gamer

jakiah wrote: »

What are you on about, I asked you to fill me in on what the gesture is actually currently, definitively about and you cant. Its completely open to interpretation apparently.

I don't owe you a link. I told you where to find the information. Don't be lazy and go find it yourself. The burden of proof is on you. Look that up also. Then get back to me with an educated comment.

Strumms

I see sheep wrote: »

Getting more outraged by anti racism than racism itself?

Yes, this whole thread is an example.

I dont see outrage... i see a very civil discussion..

There is little to no outrage in the thread regarding anti racism as the thread is not pertaining to the overall racism topic....its just about taking the knee at football matches..

Most people are outraged by racism but by the same token... you can still take the view that taking the knee should end at sporting events....