Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Rothko

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Aye, just like how many posters are dangerously close to posting racist stuff on here - but dangerously close isn't it.. is it?

Can you quote a few posts that come "dangerously close" to racism and explain why they are?

Tacitus Kilgore

jakiah wrote: »

Thanks, can you point to somewhere that says this?

When did it change from its explicit association with Black Lives Matter? There used to be BLM slogans on players jerseys, stadium banners and on TV screens, now there isnt. Why? Is it not reasonable for people to assume the exact gesture which was previously used to support BLM still supports BLM instead of 'racism, in general'?

Wut?



have a read of Gareth Southgates letter maybe

Leroy42

silverharp wrote: »

reeks of peacocking and its inextricably linked with BLM so dont see the point of it.

It isn't inextricably linked with BLM. The players haven't mentioned it. It might have developed in ine with BLM. BLM certainly gave the ideal focus and media attention. But Kapernick was before that, Anti-Racism programs have been in the game for years.

This is just the latest version to try to get the message out to a wider audience.

You need to separate your disloke for BLM from the overall Racism issue. BLM are only a small part, they do not control or own the issue.

Rothko

Strumms wrote: »

I dont see outrage... i see a very civil discussion..

There is little to no outrage in the thread regarding anti racism as the thread is not pertaining to the overall racism topic....its just about taking the knee at football matches..

Most people are outraged by racism but by the same token... you can still take the view that taking the knee should end at sporting events....

Some people use the word "outrage" in an attempt to discredit posters that have a different opinion to them. Mostly used by those can't form a coherent argument.

Tacitus Kilgore

Leroy42 wrote: »

It isn't inextricably linked with BLM. The players haven't mentioned it. It might have developed in ine with BLM. BLM certainly gave the ideal focus and media attention. But Kapernick was before that, Anti-Racism programs have been in the game for years.

This is just the latest version to try to get the message out to a wider audience.

You need to separate your disloke for BLM from the overall Racism issue. BLM are only a small part, they do not control or own the issue.

It's an easy way to be against this though you see (while hiding ones racist views) "durr BLM is a marxist organisation"

Fr D Maugire

Retr0gamer wrote: »

https://globalnews.ca/news/3769534/martin-luther-king-jr-take-a-knee-history/

Let's try that again.

You can try to retro-fit it to MLK, but the recent trend was started by Colin Kapercnik as a protest against Police Brutality against Blacks in the US, I follow the NFL and know that he initially started sitting during the Anthem and then was advised by military friends that kneeling was more respectful. It started as one player only, but then grew from that to what it is now. You can claim MLK, but that is not where the current trend got its significance.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

But not bad enough that it should hold up the match getting started?

How bad is the racism? In your opinion is it only a minute bad? Surely it's so bad it should hold the game up for an hour.

In my opinion it shouldn't hold up the game at all.

It's a bizarre premise to take up. Do you think that because there is racism, everything in life should be held up? Why?

Retr0gamer

jakiah wrote: »

Thanks, can you point to somewhere that says this?

When did it change from its explicit association with Black Lives Matter? There used to be BLM slogans on players jerseys, stadium banners and on TV screens, now there isnt. Why? Is it not reasonable for people to assume the exact gesture which was previously used to support BLM still supports BLM instead of 'racism, in general'?

Again, if you have a problem with the notion that 'black lives matter' then take a good hard look at yourself and what you are disagreeing with.

What's so wrong with making a gesture that says a black persons life matters. What is so wrong with that.

And just a black persons life matters. Remove the false connotations that do Palestinian or white lives matter as well is part of that statement. Read it again. Those are just whatabouterys that aren't there. Marxist connotations as well.

So ask yourself does a black persons life matter. And if you disagree with that or go 'yeah but what about....' then maybe the problem is you.

Hell what about the players just taking the knee against racism. What's wrong with highlighting that that?

Strumms

BLM have enough control to ensure that no football match can kick off without a gesture of support to their cause.

jakiah

Leroy42 wrote: »

OK, so its not the taking the knee itself that you have an issue with

Bending the knee is also problematic when removed from its initial, valid context. Kaepernick was refusing to stand during the US anthem, what are players in the EPL doing? Bending the knee is seen as a gesture of subservience in a lot of cultures, its bizarre.

jakiah

Leroy42 wrote: »

It isn't inextricably linked with BLM. The players haven't mentioned it. It might have developed in ine with BLM. BLM certainly gave the ideal focus and media attention. But Kapernick was before that, Anti-Racism programs have been in the game for years.

This is just the latest version to try to get the message out to a wider audience.

You need to separate your disloke for BLM from the overall Racism issue. BLM are only a small part, they do not control or own the issue.

We already had general anti-racism stuff at football with Kick-it-out etc. Then we had BLM on shirts and screens. Kneeling is inextricably linked with BLM, its absurd to pretend it isnt.

Fr D Maugire

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

It's an easy way to be against this though you see (while hiding ones racist views) "durr BLM is a marxist organisation"

Are black people who do not support BLM or kneeling also considered racist?

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

OK, so its not the taking the knee itself that you have an issue with, it that you feel that it is in support of BLM that is the problem?

This is what "Idah, who appeared recently on Claire Byrne Live to talk about being black and growing up in Ireland, stated: “Obviously it is disappointing to see the fans in the whole stadium booing us taking the knee. This sport is trying to stop racism and it is a sign to kick racism out of society.

No mention of BLM. It is the overall message of getting rid of racism in society.

Of course I would like to rid society of racism (as impossible as it may be) but using a pose which rightly or wrongly is synonymous with BLM will never have my support.

jakiah

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Again, if you have a problem with the notion that 'black lives matter' then take a good hard look at yourself and what you are disagreeing with.

What's so wrong with making a gesture that says a black persons life matters. What is so wrong with that.

And just a black persons life matters. Remove the false connotations that do Palestinian or white lives matter as well is part of that statement. Read it again. Those are just whatabouterys that aren't there. Marxist connotations as well.

So ask yourself does a black persons life matter. And if you disagree with that or go 'yeah but what about....' then maybe the problem is you.

Hell what about the players just taking the knee against racism. What's wrong with highlighting that that?

I have no issue with 'Black Lives Matter', I support it in its correct context. I dont support players kneeling at Longford Town games for a year. I dont see why this is so difficult to grasp for you.

Leroy42

jakiah wrote: »

We already had general anti-racism stuff at football with Kick-it-out etc. Then we had BLM on shirts and screens. Kneeling is inextricably linked with BLM, its absurd to pretend it isnt.

In your mind it is. Do you think the players are signed up members of BLM? Do you think they agree with their policies?

They are both seeking the same outcome, but to try to claim they are the same is nonsense, but it makes it easier for people to dislike the kneeling because of the big bad BLM.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Again, if you have a problem with the notion that 'black lives matter' then take a good hard look at yourself and what you are disagreeing with.

Lol. So you're ok with White Lives Matter t-shirts then?

Sure, it only means that white lives matter! Do you disagree with that? Why do you think white lives don't matter?

Leroy42

jakiah wrote: »

I have no issue with 'Black Lives Matter', I support it in its correct context. I dont support players kneeling at Longford Town games for a year. I dont see why this is so difficult to grasp for you.

Why? What harm is it doing? That is the bit I don't get. It has zero impact on you. You aren't asked to do anything, you give up nothing, you suffer nothing.

But for some reason it digs in your claw. Why?

jakiah

jakiah wrote: »

We already had general anti-racism stuff at football with Kick-it-out etc. Then we had BLM on shirts and screens. Kneeling is inextricably linked with BLM, its absurd to pretend it isnt.

Kick it Out is one of the greatest success stories in football. They did an outstanding job educating people and pretty much banished racism from the game (as good as it can be - there will always be isolated incidents).

I just think people got a dopamine hit from this shiny new BLM thing last year and wanted to feel like they are part of something. It's not fun to go through the existing channels set up to help fight racism. It doesn't look as glamorous for the social media profile. Why bother taking tangible action behind the scenes, when a glorious photo bending the knee and giving the black power salute is a much better aesthetic on Insta?

jakiah

Leroy42 wrote: »

In your mind it is. Do you think the players are signed up members of BLM? Do you think they agree with their policies?

They are both seeking the same outcome, but to try to claim they are the same is nonsense, but it makes it easier for people to dislike the kneeling because of the big bad BLM.

This is Orwellian type stuff. Introduce BLM slogans on jerseys, stadium banners and screens alongside kneeling, remove the slogans and pretend that the kneeling was never associated with BLM in the first place? Like who do you think you are fooling, we all watched this happen live on Sky Sports.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

How bad is the racism? In your opinion is it only a minute bad? Surely it's so bad it should hold the game up for an hour.

In my opinion it shouldn't hold up the game at all.

It's a bizarre premise to take up. Do you think that because there is racism, everything in life should be held up? Why?

OK, I think we are geting somewhere. So its the fact that they are kneeling at all that is the issue. Not BLM, not marxism. Just that you don't like it.

Do you hate minutes silence as well? Nothing should ever delay the match?

Retr0gamer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lol. So you're ok with White Lives Matter t-shirts then?

Sure, it only means that white lives matter! Do you disagree with that? Why do you think white lives don't matter?

Strawman argument. Try harder.

Strumms

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Again, if you have a problem with the notion that 'black lives matter' then take a good hard look at yourself and what you are disagreeing with.

What's so wrong with making a gesture that says a black persons life matters. What is so wrong with that.

And just a black persons life matters. Remove the false connotations that do Palestinian or white lives matter as well is part of that statement. Read it again. Those are just whatabouterys that aren't there.

So ask yourself does a black persons life matter. And if you disagree with that or go 'yeah but what about....' then maybe the problem is you.

Whats so wrong with NOT making it... its been done. Also football, footballers, football fans dont have any obligation to facilitate political causes or social..

There is no whataboutery... or false connotations... fair comparisons yes, totally.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why? What harm is it doing? That is the bit I don't get. It has zero impact on you. You aren't asked to do anything, you give up nothing, you suffer nothing.

But for some reason it digs in your claw. Why?

From my perspective, I think it sets a dangerous precedent. If political causes get involved in sport, where does it end? Who gets to decide which causes get preference?

I also take issue with the lack of a clear goal, and the guilt tripping of ALL white people who are made to feel somehow responsible for what one cop did in America and who is being rightly prosecuted as a result. As someone who has contributed to making these players filthy rich, I find it a tad insulting to be made to feel guilty of something I didn't do.

Leroy42

jakiah wrote: »

This is Orwellian type stuff. Introduce BLM slogans on jerseys, stadium banners and screens alongside kneeling, remove the slogans and pretend that the kneeling was never associated with BLM in the first place? Like who do you think you are fooling, we all watched this happen live on Sky Sports.

I never said it didn't happen, where did you read that.

Put aside your hatred of BLM for a second and jsut think about it. The players have said why they are doing it now. They don't mention BLM.

Yet you want to disregard what they are telling you, I assume since you know better, and instead think it should be banned since you don't happen to like an organisation that isn't even present at the time.

Retr0gamer

jakiah wrote: »

I have no issue with 'Black Lives Matter', I support it in its correct context. I dont support players kneeling at Longford Town games for a year. I dont see why this is so difficult to grasp for you.

So your experience at the Longford town games and the football played has been so negatively affected since some players started to take the knee.

Take a look at yourself and try and find what really irks you about it. Because I doubt the football and experience has changed much at all.

Unless football was way better before political gestures were introduced. I know I play better when the national anthem isn't played.

jakiah

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why? What harm is it doing? That is the bit I don't get. It has zero impact on you. You aren't asked to do anything, you give up nothing, you suffer nothing.

But for some reason it digs in your claw. Why?

Its enormously harmful for the game of football, its horribly divisive and leads to appalling press for the sport. Football in Ireland struggles enough without idiots posting pictures of football fans and saying - look, racists!


How anyone involved in football governance thought this was a good idea is beyond me.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

OK, I think we are geting somewhere. So its the fact that they are kneeling at all that is the issue. Not BLM, not marxism. Just that you don't like it.

Do you hate minutes silence as well? Nothing should ever delay the match?

The fact they are kneeling is my issue. I don't think the game should be held up for that specific reason. It is BLM I have the issue with.

Danzy

One of the biggest problems with BLM is the type that are active in it and are most vocal in backing it.

There is an incredible level of sanctimony and righteousness, Jesuits redux.

Middle class White kids who would have gone to the missions years ago, still preaching to heretics as far as they are it and still do unbearably holy.

Mad_maxx

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The opposite of which is being a racist.

I'll stand on the right side of future history thank you very much.

Such righteous piety in that post

Retr0gamer

Strumms wrote: »

Whats so wrong with NOT making it... its been done. Also football, footballers, football fans dont have any obligation to facilitate political causes or social..

There is no whataboutery... or false connotations... fair comparisons yes, totally.

True but there is an element of human decency to facilitating someone making a gesture for a just cause while being brave enough to do it while facing the ridicule of baying racists booing them for standing up to racism.

What are the FAI supposed to do? Ban protests against racism? That's a good look for them.