Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Strawman argument. Try harder.

Not at all. You allude that if you oppose BLM movement you dont think black lives matter.

It's not a straw man at all to bring it to it's logical conclusion that you would feel the same about white lives matter.

Unless you agree that it's possible the BLM doesn't only mean that black lives matter and opposing it doesn't mean you don't value the life of a black person.

jakiah

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The opposite of which is being a racist.

I'll stand on the right side of future history thank you very much.

Christ.

I just want to stand on a terrace and watch a match without whatever political cause-du-jour being front and center at every single ****ing game. **** with poppies and kneeling, **** off out of football.

Retr0gamer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Such righteous piety in that post

I'm not the one that made the allusions to religion. I do find it amusing that your argument is that being against racism is a cult.

Interesting that the mother of Sasha Johnson, the mother of the BLM activist shot in the head in a black on black crime recently, has pleaded with witnesses to come forward and help police with their enquiries.........and is being met with silence. Nobody wants to help the police. Shocking. The irony is just incredible.

Danzy

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Such righteous piety in that post

Don't question your betters or you will burn in eternal damnation.

Bless us retro for we have sinned.

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Such righteous piety in that post

The pro-BLM crowd are the modern iteration of the pious Catholics of the past. Desperate to show their virtue and condemn the non-believers.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not the one that made the allusions to religion. I do find it amusing that your argument is that being against racism is a cult.

I find it amusing that you think anyone who isn't on board with your way of thinking is not against racism.

Retr0gamer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not at all. You allude that if you oppose BLM movement you dont think black lives matter.

It's not a straw man at all to bring it to it's logical conclusion that you would feel the same about white lives matter.

Unless you agree that it's possible the BLM doesn't only mean that black lives matter and opposing it doesn't mean you don't value the life of a black person.

Strawman argument again.

You are mistaking the movement and sentiment of BLM with phony organisations taking the blm name and promoting their own political views.

It's why I went to such great lengths to try and ask if you are against the sentiment and leave out the phony whataboutery but it seems that much is beyond the reading skills of some people.

punisher5112

Get on with the game lads and lassies, don't be bringing others down with a terrorist organisation Logan or fist in the air or BLM on your shirt..... Whatever you do on your own time then go pee right off and do it but it still doesn't make it right....

Leroy42

jakiah wrote: »

Its enormously harmful for the game of football, its horribly divisive and leads to appalling press for the sport. Football in Ireland struggles enough without idiots posting pictures of football fans and saying - look, racists!


How anyone involved in football governance thought this was a good idea is beyond me.

Players kneeling in support of ending racism is damaging to football?

How the hell did you work that out?

Surely a progressive, welcoming, equality based sport is something to be proud of.

Unless of course you mean that pictures of those booing and shouting abuse at the players makes the fans look racist?

Tacitus Kilgore

Deleted User wrote: »

The pro-BLM crowd are the modern iteration of the pious Catholics of the past. Desperate to show their virtue and condemn the non-believers.

Those who think black lives don't matter are more of a concern for me personally.

jmayo

Leroy42 wrote: »

It isn't inextricably linked with BLM. The players haven't mentioned it. It might have developed in ine with BLM. BLM certainly gave the ideal focus and media attention. But Kapernick was before that, Anti-Racism programs have been in the game for years.

This is just the latest version to try to get the message out to a wider audience.

You need to separate your disloke for BLM from the overall Racism issue. BLM are only a small part, they do not control or own the issue.

Jaysus if we have to rely on overpaid sportsmen (and some sports women who aren't overpaid) to get the message out that racism is bad and totally wrong then fooking hell we haven't progressed much in society.

What Kapernick did was brave and was really highlighting something and bringing about discussion of something that some would probably rather not want to discuss or openly admit.

Now it is just a sop, just something everyone does.

What Wilfried Zaha did was also brave, god knows how it would have been received if he was white, career probably over.

And he was right when he said ...

On Thursday Zaha said players "should stand tall", reiterating his view that taking the knee is "degrading".

"It's becoming something that we just do now," he added.

Zaha continued: "It feels like we are isolating ourselves from these things that are not working anyway."

He also said: "Why must I even wear Black Lives Matter on the back of my top to show you that we matter? This is all degrading stuff."

Speaking at the FT Business of Football summit, he added: "Growing up, my parents let me know I should be proud to be black. We should stand tall.

"With taking a knee, sometimes people forget we have to do it. It is becoming something we just do. That is not enough for me."

Football and top sport in general (even so called amateur sports) is all about the money at the end of the day.

And this is now done to protect brands, corporate, sporting and personal.

In a way I would actually like to see it remain a thing until the world cup in Qatar.

It would complete the picture of the hypocrisy of watching overpaid and pampered sportsmen totally ignoring the fact they are playing games in stadia built by as good as slave labourers, some of whose blood and bones have been spilled into the concrete, all at the behest of a despotic ruling regime.

It would just complete the sham.

Gatling

Retr0gamer wrote: »

What are the FAI supposed to do? Ban protests against racism? That's a good look for them.

They say sorry we're not in the game of political grandstanding ,
You stand on the pitch and for the anthem that's it ,

jakiah

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Strawman argument again.

You are mistaking the movement and sentiment of BLM with phony organisations taking the blm name and promoting their own political views.

It's why I went to such great lengths to try and ask if you are against the sentiment and leave out the phony whataboutery but it seems that much is beyond the reading skills of some people.

Have you ever been to a football match?

Strazdas

jakiah wrote: »

Christ.

I just want to stand on a terrace and watch a match without whatever political cause-du-jour being front and center at every single ****ing game. **** with poppies and kneeling, **** off out of football.

The poppy crowd absolutely despise the knee gesture and are the ones booing it. How do you explain that one?

Leroy42

punisher5112 wrote: »

Get on with the game lads and lassies, don't be bringing others down with a terrorist organisation Logan or fist in the air or BLM on your shirt..... Whatever you do on your own time then go pee right off and do it but it still doesn't make it right....

It is their own time, who elses is it, yours?

Being anti racist is now akin to supporting a terrorist organisation? Wow.

Retr0gamer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I find it amusing that you think anyone who isn't on board with your way of thinking is not against racism.

I'm just against racism in all it's forms.

I think you'll find the opposite of that is a racist.

There is also the stance of being neutral in the argument but I think burying your head in the sand and pretending racism doesn't exist is also a very damaging position.

And before the strawman arguments come I'll head them off at the pass. I don't support or associate with groups or organisations taking the blm name and promoting Marxism/capitalism/nihilism or whatever.

I just think racism is wrong.

Tacitus Kilgore

Strazdas wrote: »

The poppy crowd absolutely despise the knee gesture and are the ones booing it. How do you explain that one?

Hardline nationalism?

jakiah

Strazdas wrote: »

The poppy crowd absolutely despise the knee gesture and are the ones booing it. How do you explain that one?

Why do I need to 'explain' anything? Neither have any place in football.

Leroy42

Gatling wrote: »

They say sorry we're not in the game of political grandstanding ,
You stand on the pitch and for the anthem that's it ,

But aren't the anthem then a problem? Surely organisations like the FAI should not be seen to be supporting any country over another. Play all anthems maybe?

I'm bein facetious obviously, but it just points to the contradcitons inherent in the decrying of the kneeling.

Retr0gamer

jakiah wrote: »

Have you ever been to a football match?

Yes. I follow the national team and been to a lot of Fulham games and a few other clubs.

So?

jakiah

They should get rid of anthems and minutes silences too while they are at it, more ****

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Strawman argument again.

You are mistaking the movement and sentiment of BLM with phony organisations taking the blm name and promoting their own political views.

If you think that BLM are only about saying that Black Lives Matter, then I am sorry, it's not me that is mistaken.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

The racist of today are not going to change, but it isn't aimed at them.

It is aimed at giving minorties a sense that they are not alone. That this is something that is being focused on. That yound people can get behind and change wil happen.

What change? Minorities are protected. Minorities receive funding and other benefits within most western nations should they be disadvantaged. So, what more do you expect to happen?

What did you expect, that racism would simply disappear in a few weeks? Look at deomcracy in many countires, getting rid of communism in others, hell even trying to break the strangle hold the catholic church had over the running of Ireland.

I've said repeatedly that racism is a human condition, and it's never going to entirely disappear. You have yet to show me how taking the knee or raising awareness about racism will change anything, beyond what is currently in place.

These things take time, they take constant reinforcement that it is no longer acceptable.

They haven't been considered acceptable for three or four decades. As I said before, social norms prohibit the expression of racist in any public setting. We have laws to protect the rights of minorities, and most people are aware of this... so... why the need for extra constant reinforcement, since we already have it as part of our culture.

And it is working. The football supporters are being faced with a dilemma. They hate what the players are doing, but the logical extension is to stop supporting. But they love football. A choice is coming and they don't want to face that choice so the easiest thing to do is to try to cancel it.

gobbledygook. That makes no logical sense at all. Those with racist opinions can continue to ignore what their teams or players are doing, and focus entirely on the football games themselves. You haven't shown anything to suggest that the taking of the knee has changed the minds of the supporters. You've already admitted that it's not directed at racists.

Retr0gamer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you think that BLM are only about saying that Black Lives Matter, then I am sorry, it's not me that is mistaken.

I'm sorry but it's you falling for right wing propaganda.

I don't make the rules.

jakiah

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Yes. I follow the national team and been to a lot of Fulham games and a few other clubs.

So?

Fair enough, was just asking. Ive not come across a regular matchgoing fan who supports football administration pushing politics into the matchday before.

Tacitus Kilgore

Deleted User wrote: »

If you think that BLM are only about saying that Black Lives Matter, then I am sorry, it's not me that is mistaken.

If you think that BLM is solely an organisation, you are mistaken.

It's a movement, and a statement - stating that black lives matter.

There is also an organisation with the same name, in the US.


The players taking the knee now, in their own words - are making a stand against racism in football.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm just against racism in all it's forms.

I think you'll find the opposite of that is a racist.

There is also the stance of being neutral in the argument but I think burying your head in the sand and pretending racism doesn't exist is also a very damaging position.

And before the strawman arguments come I'll head them off at the pass. I don't support or associate with groups or organisations taking the blm name and promoting Marxism/capitalism/nihilism or whatever.

I just think racism is wrong.

Yet when I explicitly stated I was against racism, acknowledged it's existence and was clear about my opposition to all forms of racism, you responded with...

"I'm not a racist but..."

Seems that explicitly opposing all types of racism still got me landed in your big bad racist category.

Strazdas

jakiah wrote: »

Why do I need to 'explain' anything? Neither have any place in football.

All of the yobbishness is coming from one side (the right wing poppy wearing / Brexity / racist types).

There's nothing rude or yobbish about players taking a knee in silence.

Retr0gamer

jakiah wrote: »

Fair enough, was just asking. Ive not come across a regular matchgoing fan who supports football administration pushing politics into the matchday before.

They aren't pushing it though. If they were pushing it they'd be having a sermon about it before matches or whatever.

It's there now and no football association is going to move against it as it will be a pr disaster