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Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

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    #692
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    If the players were protesting pre-game under the banner of Kick It Out or a different organisation/slogan, would you be ok with that?
    I dont think Kick It Out had much opposition, people were broadly supportive of it. Its baffling why they had to replace it with the BLM kneeling thing.


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    #693
    bewareofthedog
    Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭bewareofthedog


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Still no answer to this.


    Calm down and try rereading what I wrote, I even posted a video of the incident.

    I wasn't referring to kick it out defacing Churchill's statue, rather BLM.


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    #694
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    tailorspy wrote: »
    Thanks.

    So if the booing lot are only a minority, would their boos not be drowned out by the vocal majority of non-racist fans?

    And should part of the solution not involve identifying those fans - high def cameras and facial recognition are available - and serving them with permanent bans?

    Yeah, identify them and ban them. I agree with that. Do all you can to remove racists from football grounds.

    With the "vocal majority"? That's the thing, it's booing that is vocal. The opposite to booing is not vocal.

    This is why i'm always in favour of the "minute's applause" over the "minute's silence" at a game. It takes away the ability of this d*ckhead minority to be a d*ckhead. They get drowned out.


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    #695
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Billy Mays wrote: »
    Let's not campaign against racism cos it only leads to divisiveness icon14.png

    How do you even get to that point?


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    #696
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    bewareofthedog wrote: »
    Calm down and try rereading what I wrote, I even posted a video of the incident.

    I wasn't referring to kick it out defacing Churchill's statue, rather BLM.
    MrStuffins wrote: »
    I'll ask you a different question:

    If the players were protesting pre-game under the banner of Kick It Out or a different organisation/slogan, would you be ok with that?

    So how about an answer to this?


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    #697
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Yeah, identify them and ban them. I agree with that. Do all you can to remove racists from football grounds.

    With the "vocal majority"? That's the thing, it's booing that is vocal. The opposite to booing is not vocal.

    This is why i'm always in favour of the "minute's applause" over the "minute's silence" at a game. It takes away the ability of this d*ckhead minority to be a d*ckhead. They get drowned out.
    Maybe they should replace the few seconds of kneeling with applause then? be careful suggesting that though, everyone will say you are racist.


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    #698
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users Posts: 31,722 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Still no answer to this.

    I'll ask you a different question:

    If the players were protesting pre-game under the banner of Kick It Out or a different organisation/slogan, would you be ok with that?

    Which they have been - the whole English football structure changed all their messaging around it to "No Room For Racism" almost a year ago. Made no difference.

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12067853/premier-league-players-to-wear-no-room-for-racism-badges-on-kits-replacing-black-lives-matter-logo

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/4178139/premier-league-display-no-room-for-racism-instead-of-black-lives-matter-on-kits


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    #699
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    jakiah wrote: »
    I dont think Kick It Out had much opposition, people were broadly supportive of it. Its baffling why they had to replace it with the BLM kneeling thing.

    Did kick it out have any opposition at all.

    How did that make any activist feel good themselves


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    #700
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    Danzy wrote: »
    Did kick it out have any opposition at all.

    How did that make any activist feel good themselves
    I cant help feel its the division and anger that they are really after.


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    #701
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    jakiah wrote: »
    Maybe they should replace the few seconds of kneeling with applause then? be careful suggesting that though, everyone will say you are racist.

    Could be misconstrued as a sarcasm

    Well done, for wreaking absolute havoc on our society will all this rubbish you are importing *claps* hey I’m all for it.


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    #702
    bewareofthedog
    Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭bewareofthedog


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    If the players were protesting pre-game under the banner of Kick It Out or a different organisation/slogan, would you be ok with that?

    That was my point, although there's been plenty of deserved criticism levelled at kick it out in the past.

    My issue is solely with the underlying politics behind the slogan. The PL should never have gotten involved with politics and stuck to what they're using now, the "no room for racism" slogan.


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    #703
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    Which they have been - the whole English football structure changed all their messaging around it to "No Room For Racism" almost a year ago. Made no difference.
    Well they didnt change ALL the messaging, did they? They kept bending the knee.


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    #704
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    jakiah wrote: »
    I cant help feel its the division and anger that they are really after.

    They aren't even subtle about it.


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    #705
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,192 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Your post is an over reaction.
    You're suggesting that no topic should be advocated for unless all topics are advocated for in the same way?

    We all know that football authorities could stamp out something if they truly wanted to. That is wayyy more likely to happen as an outcome of this particular action and reaction than it would by not kneeling and expecting them to step up.

    The current England Manager wrote a public letter in which he very strongly supported the initiative. He wouldn't have done so if this was weak, tokenistic and a fad.

    Listen to you damning the FA with faint praise. Wouldn't you think they might actually take some action rather than be congratulated for this rubbish.

    The current England manager is just another employee of the FA, so naturallyboth he and they are weak and tokenistic.


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    #706
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    Which they have been - the whole English football structure changed all their messaging around it to "No Room For Racism" almost a year ago. Made no difference.

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12067853/premier-league-players-to-wear-no-room-for-racism-badges-on-kits-replacing-black-lives-matter-logo

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/4178139/premier-league-display-no-room-for-racism-instead-of-black-lives-matter-on-kits

    Exactly


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    #707
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    bewareofthedog wrote: »
    That was my point, although there's been plenty of deserved criticism levelled at kick it out in the past.

    My issue is solely with the underlying politics behind the slogan. The PL should never have gotten involved with politics and stuck to what they're using now, the "no room for racism" slogan.

    Well then there's no need to keep banging on about BLM then is there? Is has nothing to do with them.

    Move on


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    #708
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Exactly
    Well not quite exactly, the kept the bit that associates it with BLM. If they remove the kneeling bit we'll be golden and we can all get on with our lives without the shrieking hysterics every time theres a football match with this craic going on.


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    #709
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Sends an anti-racism message - Check

    Keeps the topic of racism in the news - Check

    Keeps those on social media platforms, including forums like this one, talking about it - Check

    You're partaking in exactly what it's aimed to achieve.

    So, beyond talking about the kneeing in football, it doesn't serve any actual purpose?

    I have asked a number of times now as to what people expect to change in society as a result of all this. I've yet to get any kind of serious answer, apart from a few deflections.

    So, I ask you. Considering that racism is already unacceptable in society, and we already have a wide range of laws in place to tackle racism, what does this movement you advocate seek to achieve? Be specific.


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    #710
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So, I ask you. Considering that racism is already unacceptable in society, and we already have a wide range of laws in place to tackle racism, what does this movement you advocate seek to achieve? Be specific.

    A change in policies of social media companies in how they tackle, or prevent, racial abuse on social media.

    One idea i've heard is to have verified social media accounts. I have to go through all sorts of KYC checks to open a betting account, so the facilities are there and it's possible. Being able to hide behind anonymity is a powerful tool for these people.


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    #711
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    Tell me how wrote: »
    The 'I don't recall' is interesting phrasing.
    Ah they are even accusing the Bohs fans of racism now. If you didnt laugh you'd cry.


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    #712
    raclle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,373 ✭✭✭raclle


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    It's a year later. Time for everyone to move on. There are much worse things going in the world.
    I think this is what the booing is all about? People are just getting sick of it now and its not going to resolve any issues


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    #713
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    raclle wrote: »
    I think this is what the booing is all about? People are just getting sick of it now and its not going to resolve any issues

    No it's not. I'm sure people are sick of it but people are booing because they either don't agree with or don't want to acknowledge the cause. It comes from a point of priviege in regard to an issue that they are unaffected by.


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    #714
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    A change in policies of social media companies in how they tackle, or prevent, racial abuse on social media.

    That makes little sense since most social media companies already had initiatives to regulate racist abuse online... but even if they didn't, where is such a message anywhere among the football related gestures, and target audience.
    One idea i've heard is to have verified social media accounts. I have to go through all sorts of KYC checks to open a betting account, so the facilities are there and it's possible. Being able to hide behind anonymity is a powerful tool for these people.

    I see. You want more regulation for the majority, due to the actions of a minority, without any real evidence to suggest that such measures will be enforced equally, and won't be abused to promote other agenda's..

    Btw... I'm still waiting for an answer to the question I posed above in the original post.


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    #715
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    No it's not. I'm sure people are sick of it but people are booing because they either don't agree with or don't want to acknowledge the cause. It comes from a point of priviege in regard to an issue that they are unaffected by.
    Are people not allowed disagree with overt political causes being pushed as part of football matchday in their local stadiums now? I think there was a reasonable amount of goodwill for this early on but its been running for over a year now. Time to ditch it and move on.


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    #716
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,687 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    jakiah wrote: »
    Are people not allowed disagree with overt political causes being pushed as part of football matchday in their local stadiums now? I think there was a reasonable amount of goodwill for this early on but its been running for over a year now. Time to ditch it and move on.

    That's your opinion that this is what is happening .

    Most of the people in support of the kneeling, are in my view, doing so because it is drawing attention to ongoing racism within the sport.


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    #717
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,598 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Most of the people in support of the kneeling, are in my view, doing so because it is drawing attention to ongoing racism within the sport.

    I thought it was to support BLM activities in the US. I don’t think it has anything to do with racism in sport.


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    #718
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    No it's not. I'm sure people are sick of it but people are booing because they either don't agree with or don't want to acknowledge the cause. It comes from a point of priviege in regard to an issue that they are unaffected by.

    Excuse me? What privilege do I have? Are white people immune to racism?

    It's that attitude, that of making sweeping generalisations about people because of their skin colour, which is so absolutely abhorrent and yet this statement is being made as if you are an ally for anti racism.

    This kind of rhetoric is far from helpful.


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    #719
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    jackboy wrote: »
    I thought it was to support BLM activities in the US. I don’t think it has anything to do with racism in sport.
    It changes minute to minute depending on who you ask. Nobody knows, around and around we go. If you question it you are a racist though, thats certain.


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    #720
    nolivesmatter
    Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭nolivesmatter


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Yeah, identify them and ban them. I agree with that. Do all you can to remove racists from football grounds.

    Bit of leap there to assume the people are booing are racist. I'm sure there's some, as I'm sure there are a few that have taken the knee themselves. An unwillingness to try to understand why people might legitimately have an issue with all that the knee represents, and to simply label anyone who opposes your viewpoint as racist, only serves to contribute to the polarization we see these days.


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    #721
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,687 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    jackboy wrote: »
    I thought it was to support BLM activities in the US. I don’t think it has anything to do with racism in sport.

    What do you think 'BLM' is if it isn't highlighting the existence of racism?


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