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Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*
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Comments
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Retr0gamer wrote: »That racism isn't confined to Ireland?
If I had assumed that, it would in no way have invalidated my question.
One can have the understanding that racism isn't confined to Ireland, and also reasonably expect that you were referring to Ireland in your post.
Rather, what you seem to have wanted me to assume was that you were specifically excluding Ireland in that post. This to me isn't a reasonable expectation to have, given how you worded it.0 -
So its only useful if it antagonises football fans?MrStuffins wrote: »Show me the thread in Current Affairs on Kick It Out coming up to 1000 posts and you'll find your answer there.......0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »More of an alliance than an empire.
And people from Scotland sing the Famine song, and the English sing "No Surrender to the Ira", and once smashed up Landsdowne road because they were in Ireland.
The point is that all these places have different histories.
They do, but don’t think for one minute the Hungarian fans were booing taking the knee because they have some deep rooted belief in equality. Quite the opposite in fact.0 -
MrStuffins wrote: »I disagree.
Fair enough. You honestly think that there would be the same outrage if a white person said a racist pejorative against a black person as there would be if a black person said one against a white person?
I am pretty sure you are wrong but fair enough.0 -
Tell me how wrote: »Do you really think that people are kneeling before matches in England or Europe because of something that is going on in the US?
Yes, because they didn't before the George Flyod incident.Absolutely, US events drew attention but from that point forward it was recognized that if they are doing such in the US to protest against issues there, it was an appropriate way to protest against issues elsewhere without it being all about the US.
But the countries histories are totally different, as is Hungary ( even more so). The idea that every body has to follow the US lead on this is an example of US supremacism.
And BLM is a reaction to, in the US, black people being killed by police, In England and Wales the number of people of any race killed per year by police fluctuates between 0 and 6. Last year the number was 3. I can't see unarmed killings but I imagine most of those were armed, with the total number being low.
https://www.inquest.org.uk/fatal-police-shootings
From google it looks like the last police killing of a black man was in 2011.0 -
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[Deleted User] wrote: »Not at all. The black player will receive much more racist abuse. Again, is that privilege?
Well then are we in agreement that racist treatment against black people in football will be taken more seriously and dealt with much more effectively and with more fervently than racism against white people.
Is that privilege?
So you acknowledge that in a largely white country, white people are less likely to receive racist abuse. So yes, that is white privilege. It's not a slur or a criticism it's just a fact. If you want to draw attention to any issue, it is usually done by the victims, again that's just common sense I feel. Black players and other minorities are the primary victims of racism in Britain and British football. Irish players recently have been very vocal about the racism they receive and I support that but it's not a competition and you can support all movements. Players of all races are taking the knee because ridding the game of racism benefits everyone.
As I mentioned earlier, which you incorrectly picked up on, this thread is littered with people saying that the racism isn't *that* bad and it's time to move on, it's a privileged and extremely patronising position to take.1 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Fair enough. You honestly think that there would be the same outrage if a white person said a racist pejorative against a black person as there would be if a black person said one against a white person?
What's this "if" talk?
By all means throw a few examples out there. Or are you just assuming?0 -
I think it is wrong to boo the knee thing as it sends out the wrong message.
However, I agree with the OP I think the whole gesture thing itself is farcical.
These type of gestures or causes at matches annoy me anyway. There is large dose of bolixology about it. Look at me and my 'cause'. Most people are there just to watch the flipping match end of story.
I remember in Croke Park they had a moments applause at a certain minute during the match for a young soccer fan from England who died of cancer. Nothing to do with the GAA at all or anything. It was set up by some Dublin supporters on facebook who copied soccer counterparts in the UK. It had nothing to do with race or anything like that, just a child dying of cancer in a foreign country who happened to be a fan of a soccer team.
I found it really annoying as there seemed to be no sincerity in it and it had nothing to do with the GAA at all. It was a real bandwagon thing. I could understand if it was a GAA fan or something you could stretch it to that. But it is clear that lot of these 'causes' are done because people jump on the bandwagon.
As for the 'taking the knee' thing I think it should not be done before matches.
1) As other posters said it emminants from American and has clear political overtones as such - BLM etc
2) The pretence that some commentators give 'taking the knee' as if it is a powerful gesture is laughable. It is like the players are stretching and it is a submissive gesture. The whole thing reminds me of as kids how we used to rush through prayers before lunch at school. The prayers had no meaning.
Wilfred Zaha (A black man and a Crystal Palace pro footballer) made the point of not taking the knee any longer as he views it as degrading
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56117084"Why must I even wear Black Lives Matter on the back of my top to show you that we matter?
This is all degrading stuff."
"Growing up, my parents let me know I should be proud to be black. We should stand tall."
"With taking a knee, sometimes people forget we have to do it.
It is becoming something we just do. That is not enough for me."
3) I realise it has has been said by some that 'taking the knee' is now supposed to be for against all racism and not just against black people. Fair enough. But what does it achieve in reality does it discourage racism/or actually encourage it with booing and so on. Or does it simply annoy people who want to watch a match?
4) Why stop there with one cause you could have a gesture before a match for other causes or charities. Men cupping their testes in a show of male cancer awareness. Female players could do the same with their breasts. Or players could have a symbolic head shaving on the first day of the season?
5) I think a lot of this stuff such as 'taking the knee' is symptomatic of gestures which are high on symbolism and low on actual effectiveness. It is a consequence of the 'facebook generation' and millenials jumping on causes. The rest are pressured into it. Or corporates see it as an opportunity to milk those who want to be attached to a trendy cause.
Insincere trends always happen as the changing of facebook profile images to a French flag following the terrorist attack. People jump on a bandwagon and it quickly loses its meaning and intent. The ALS ice bucket challenge was another one back in 2013 ish.
Where the whole intent of the exercise is quickly forgotten as people just follow the crowd.
I think psychologists call this moral licencing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing
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I honestly think people will laugh at all this craic in years to come. Taking the knee, toxic this, toxic that. Identity this, identity that. All those odd sort of buzzwords. It will be nice if people just played sport and left it at that. Obviously the banners 'respect campaign' and so on are not good enough for a certain cohort.
Personally I think the 'taking the knee' has become a hollow gesture and it is agenda led - symbolic - zero actual use. It is particularly done by those who have become 'Americanised' worldwide.
I hope the OP is correct and the taking the knee is scrapped, pointless stuff.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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The ice bucket challenge raised quite a bit of money back for research.
Taking the knee is unlikely to solve racism but no one has suggested much of a better option either (from the players view point I think stadiums could look at lifetime bans and the like).
It isn't like they stop the match. It is before the match starts and takes a minute. The match still gets played. You can still watch the match, have a beer and go home. No one is forcing you to look at the players during the anthem.
As for kick it out, a campaign doesn't need to annoy football fans but it should make them look up and listen. If you want to be annoyed at men kneeling down blame the gob****e 3 rows down spouting racist abuse. Without people like that there would be no kneeling.
Actually I love all this what good does kneeling do and don't we have banners already. If kneeling doesn't do anything what bit of difference will a banner do that noone pays attention to do?1 -
MrStuffins wrote: »What's this "if" talk?
By all means throw a few examples out there. Or are you just assuming?
White on black violence is more than often labelled as a racist attack. The same cannot be said when the ethnicities are reversed. In fact, even highlighting this will result in being accused mockingly of using the victim card.
As someone who deals with racial abuse on a frequent basis, I agree that white on black racism occurs more frequently, but black on white racism is no less abhorrent, yet is treated with less severity
Do you deny that?0 -
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MrStuffins wrote: »Show me the thread in Current Affairs on Kick It Out coming up to 1000 posts and you'll find your answer there.......
Kick it out isn't the same as the knee. Its driven by the FA for one, and isn't just performative American copycat nonsense.
The sooner people realise that they aren't in America, right or left, the better.0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »I think it is wrong to boo the knee thing as it sends out the wrong message.
However, I agree with the OP I think the whole gesture thing itself is farcical.
These type of gestures or causes at matches annoy me anyway. There is large dose of bolixology about it. Look at me and my 'cause'. Most people are there just to watch the flipping match end of story.
I remember in Croke Park they had a moments applause at a certain minute during the match for a young soccer fan from England who died of cancer. Nothing to do with the GAA at all or anything. It was set up by some Dublin supporters on facebook who copied soccer counterparts in the UK. It had nothing to do with race or anything like that, just a child dying of cancer in a foreign country who happened to be a fan of a soccer team.
I found it really annoying as there seemed to be no sincerity in it and it had nothing to do with the GAA at all. It was a real bandwagon thing. I could understand if it was a GAA fan or something you could stretch it to that. But it is clear that lot of these 'causes' are done because people jump on the bandwagon.
As for the 'taking the knee' thing I think it should not be done before matches.
1) As other posters said it emminants from American and has clear political overtones as such - BLM etc
2) The pretence that some commentators give 'taking the knee' as if it is a powerful gesture is laughable. It is like the players are stretching and it is a submissive gesture. The whole thing reminds me of as kids how we used to rush through prayers before lunch at school. The prayers had no meaning.
Wilfred Zaha (A black man and a Crystal Palace pro footballer) made the point of not taking the knee any longer as he views it as degrading
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56117084"Why must I even wear Black Lives Matter on the back of my top to show you that we matter?
This is all degrading stuff."
"Growing up, my parents let me know I should be proud to be black. We should stand tall.
"With taking a knee, sometimes people forget we have to do it.
It is becoming something we just do. That is not enough for me."
3) I realise it has has been said by some that 'taking the knee' is now supposed to be for against all racism and not just against black people. Fair enough. But what does it achieve in reality does it discourage racism/or actually encourage it with booing and so on. Or does it simply annoy people who want to watch a match?
4) Why stop there with one cause you could have a gesture before a match for other causes or charities. Men cupping their testes in a show of male cancer awareness. Female players could do the same with their breasts. Or players could have a symbolic head shaving on the first day of the season?
5) I think a lot of this stuff such as 'taking the knee' is symptomatic of gestures which are high on symbolism and low on actual effectiveness. It is a consequence of the 'facebook generation' and millenials jumping on causes. The rest are pressured into it. Or corporates see it as an opportunity to milk those who want to be attached to a trendy cause.
Insincere trends always happen as the changing of facebook profile images to a French flag following the terrorist attack. People jump on a bandwagon and it quickly loses its meaning and intent. The ALS ice bucket challenge was another one back in 2013 ish.
Where the whole intent of the exercise is quickly forgotten as people just follow the crowd.
I think psychologists call this moral licencing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing
--
I honestly think people will laugh at all this craic in years to come. Taking the knee, toxic this, toxic that. Identity this, identity that. All those odd sort of buzzwords. It will be nice if people just played sport and left it at that. Obviously the banners 'respect campaign' and so on are not good enough for a certain cohort.
Personally I think the 'taking the knee' has become a hollow gesture and it is agenda led - symbolic - zero actual use. Particularly those who have become 'Americanised' worldwide.
I hope the OP is correct and the taking the knee is scrapped, pointless stuff.
It's interesting that the argument against it worldwide are identical to the arguments against it in the US.
Or has that type of 'Americanisation' not happened.
Wilfred Zaha is right in some respects, but that doesn't mean that the kneeling isn't worthwhile and playing a role in moving towards where meaninful action will happen.
That will only happen when the powers that be think the public largely demands it and that is more likely to come about after kneeling, booing and all the conversations that arise from these events.
It would be great if such protests weren't needed, but they are. And that's a fact in a lot of places irrespective of their distance from America.0 -
FunLover18 wrote: »So you acknowledge that in a largely white country, white people are less likely to receive racist abuse. .
I don't acknowledge that at all, not in the UK. "Whiteness" is an American concept. You realise there are different, and often antagonistic, ethnic groups on these island?. I am wondering if you actually know where you are living?
Scotland is particularly bad for anti Irish sentiment. Neil Lennon lived a hell on earth over there.0 -
FunLover18 wrote: »So you acknowledge that in a largely white country, white people are less likely to receive racist abuse. So yes, that is white privilege. It's not a slur or a criticism it's just a fact. If you want to draw attention to any issue, it is usually done by the victims, again that's just common sense I feel. Black players and other minorities are the primary victims of racism in Britain and British football. Irish players recently have been very vocal about the racism they receive and I support that but it's not a competition and you can support all movements. Players of all races are taking the knee because ridding the game of racism benefits everyone.
As I mentioned earlier, which you incorrectly picked up on, this thread is littered with people saying that the racism isn't *that* bad and it's time to move on, it's a privileged and extremely patronising position to take.
Do you agree then that black people have a privilege that racism against them is taken more seriously and is more widely condemned than racism levelled at white people?0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »I don't acknowledge that at all, not in the UK. "Whiteness" is an American concept. You realise there are different, and often antagonistic, ethnic groups on these island?. I am wondering if you actually know where you are living?
Scotland is particularly bad for anti Irish sentiment. Neil Lennon lived a hell on earth over there.
I don't even know where to begin with this. Judging people based off the colour of their skin has been around since before the USA.
Yes there are other forms of abuse as well such as the largely sectarian based based Scottish/NI stuff.0 -
They aren't taking a knee about American police issues. They are taking a knee about the problem of racism in society.
Why should black people and footballers who still receive racist abuse move on?
Racism is a massive problem. All you need to do is look at social media, especially of players of colour.
You make it sound like taking the knee solves the problem of racism. It’s low effort, big pay off activism. Anyone who does it receives kudos but nothing changes.Don't see the point of it, it achieves nothing. It's a pity it became so widespread in a way, because it did mean something when it was just Kaepernick and others choosing to do it.
Don't agree with booing it either though. It takes about 5 seconds, then it's over. no need to react in any way.
Pretty much how I feel about it. When it’s a gesture that a player is expected to perform, it loses any power it had. And let’s not pretend that it’s optional for players. Anyone who doesn’t take the knee will be zeroed in on.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Kick it out isn't the same as the knee. Its driven by the FA for one, and isn't just performative American copycat nonsense.
The sooner people realise that they aren't in America, right or left, the better.
I disagree, I think the players that are partaking in both the ‘Kick it Out’ and taking the knee movements are doing it mostly to raise awareness to racism in football and in the world. The players have said it themselves recently. Just even listening to Ogbene on the news tonight, he didn’t mention anything political/divisive/BLM/etc. Most of these players I follow on SM or wherever don’t discuss they’re political views. Most players just want to make an apolitical message that racism is wrong in football and wider society, that’s about it really imo.1 -
The ice bucket challenge raised quite a bit of money back for research.
Taking the knee is unlikely to solve racism but no one has suggested much of a better option either (from the players view point I think stadiums could look at lifetime bans and the like).
It isn't like they stop the match. It is before the match starts and takes a minute. The match still gets played. You can still watch the match, have a beer and go home. No one is forcing you to look at the players during the anthem.
As for kick it out, a campaign doesn't need to annoy football fans but it should make them look up and listen. If you want to be annoyed at men kneeling down blame the gob****e 3 rows down spouting racist abuse. Without people like that there would be no kneeling.
Actually I love all this what good does kneeling do and don't we have banners already. If kneeling doesn't do anything what bit of difference will a banner do that noone pays attention to do?
True the ASL thing did raise money, but after a while people forgot what they were doing it for and it was just a bit of craic to join the crowd.
True the game is still played. But as I said the main commentator normally a white fella - let's be honest. Feels that he is forced to give the 'taking a knee' a big build up as a powerful gesture. When is anything put at this stage. It sounds all very forced and false. You have players chewing gum half kneeling looking bored. Maybe giving the leg a bit of stretch while they are at it.
I get the feeling many non black people involved in football/commentary really want to say this is bollix. Just play the flipping game. But they cannot due to the obvious backlash it would cause.
Les Ferdinand a former Black English International has said that 'taking the knee' has become diluted and defended QPR in not doing it.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12727879/les-ferdinand-knee-lost-meaning/
Ironically I think those who boo 'the taking the knee' (for whatever reasons - I suspect they are wide ranging) are giving it more publicity than the 'actual taking the knee' ever would. Yeah a few of them are no doubt racists and your idea is to ban them for life. If they have masks on how do you prove it?
Also others may boo 'taking the knee' because it pisses them off attaching this political pantomime to a football game. Should they be banned? Again how do you prove it. No only have you to prove if they booed, but why they booed.
I remember someone told me they were at an Arsenal match and the opposition fans chanted to Arsene Wenger (Then Arsenal Manager) -
'Sit down you peadophile, 'Sit down you peadophile' 'Sit down you peadophile'
(in reference to Wenger's penchant for signing young players)
The steward said if I catch any of you doing it again I was told to throw you out.
What did the fans do?
They proceeded to hum the tune of 'Sit down you paedophile'
The steward could do nothing.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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https://timeline.com/british-soccer-players-give-nazi-salute-1cc5a50ea451
History seems to repeat... For some , this is where we're heading0 -
I don't even know where to begin with this. Judging people based off the colour of their skin has been around since before the USA.
Yes there are other forms of abuse as well such as the largely sectarian based based Scottish/NI stuff.
The abuse in Scotland isn't "sectarian". It is racist. Neil Lennon could well be an atheist, and might be, it doesn't matter. There's no theological dispute here. They aren't shouting diatribes about transubstantiation.
Judging people by the colour of their skin was in fact fairly uncommon in the the "British isles" as there were very few non whites.
And while we are at it, there are much more historical police and army killings of civilians mostly Irish ethnic in Northern Ireland and thus the UK, than of blacks in the UK. Even proportionate to numbers. Nobody took the knee.0 -
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MrStuffins wrote: »What's this "if" talk?
By all means throw a few examples out there. Or are you just assuming?On 20 September 2009, Diouf was questioned by police after allegations that he had made a racial slur to a ball-boy during a match at Everton, telling him to "**** off, white boy".[79] Diouf defended his actions by saying that the ball-boy had thrown the ball to him "like a bone to a dog" and that Everton fans were racially abusing and throwing bananas at him. Police found no evidence of this
No police charge but also no FA charge. Honestly, if a white player said "**** off black boy" to a black ball boy there would be rightful outrage.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/02/ex-england-star-trevor-sinclair-admits-drink-driving-and-racial-abuse
Trevor Sinclair racially abuses a police man arresting him for drink driving. He's still working in football on TalkSport.0 -
Tell me how wrote: »It's interesting that the argument against it worldwide are identical to the arguments against it in the US.
Or has that type of 'Americanisation' not happened.
Wilfred Zaha is right in some respects, but that doesn't mean that the kneeling isn't worthwhile and playing a role in moving towards where meaninful action will happen.
That will only happen when the powers that be think the public largely demands it and that is more likely to come about after kneeling, booing and all the conversations that arise from these events.
It would be great if such protests weren't needed, but they are. And that's a fact in a lot of places irrespective of their distance from America.
Do you honestly think that drunken idiots who go to football matches and make monkey noises and shout the n word are gonna stop because because footballers are kneeling ?? All this kneeling has managed to do is alienate more of their fans who're now booing them . If they wanna stamp out racist abuse at games , have plain clothes cops in the crowds , arrest the idiots who are shouting the racist crap and come down hard on them in court, ban them etc There are some places in eastern Europe it's a different kettle of fish . I can't imagine any right wing hooligan firms over there changing their mind because the players kneel before the game.0 -
Tilden Katz wrote: »You make it sound like taking the knee solves the problem of racism. It’s low effort, big pay off activism. Anyone who does it receives kudos but nothing changes.
Pretty much how I feel about it. When it’s a gesture that a player is expected to perform, it loses any power it had. And let’s not pretend that it’s optional for players. Anyone who doesn’t take the knee will be zeroed in on.
By who? Also, they would be cheered to the rafters by the right wing press in Britain.....which is probably the 'real' reason they wouldn't do it, no footballer would want to be cheered on by that bunch of wasters and reprobates).0 -
kildare lad wrote: »Do you honestly think that drunken idiots who go to football matches and make monkey noises and shout the n word are gonna stop because because footballers are kneeling ?? All this kneeling has managed to do is alienate more of their fans who're now booing them . If they wanna stamp out racist abuse at games , have plain clothes cops in the crowds , arrest the idiots who are shouting the racist crap and come down hard on them in court, ban them etc There are some places in eastern Europe it's a different kettle of fish . I can't imagine any right wing hooligan firms over there changing their mind because the players kneel before the game.
Absolutely not.
But the booing and the subsequent conversation is much more likely to make the clubs and authorities act against offenders than has happened in the past.
And this booing is drawing attention to the whole thing better nearly than anyone involved in it could have hoped for.
I don't think everyone booing is a racist, but I think everyone booing is ok with racists being present at games and to that I say, let the booing continue. Let them reveal themselves.1 -
Tell me how wrote: »It's interesting that the argument against it worldwide are identical to the arguments against it in the US.
Or has that type of 'Americanisation' not happened.
Wilfred Zaha is right in some respects, but that doesn't mean that the kneeling isn't worthwhile and playing a role in moving towards where meaninful action will happen.
That will only happen when the powers that be think the public largely demands it and that is more likely to come about after kneeling, booing and all the conversations that arise from these events.
It would be great if such protests weren't needed, but they are. And that's a fact in a lot of places irrespective of their distance from America.
So you really think it 'makes a difference' and will cause 'meaningful action'?
I think you are deluding and codding yourself.
The only way to combat rascism is at a young age in the home, people interacting with different people from different backgrounds.
But it is human nature that people stick with their own, whether that be race or soci-demographic background. And it creates a them and us. Mostly from working classes.
Taking a knee will solve none of this, it is pure pantomime imo.
Meaningful action is youth groups/clubs where people of all sorts of backgrounds can get to know others. 'Taking the knee' does none of this and one of a long line of Americanism's that have seeped into European and Worldwide society. High on optics, low on action.Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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[Deleted User] wrote: »Do you agree then that black people have a privilege that racism against them is taken more seriously and is more widely condemned than racism levelled at white people?
I'm sure black people and minorites are thrilled that whilst they may get more racial abuse, it is at least taken more seriously. And let's be clear by "more seriously" we're talking about their movements to highlight racism being booed and labeled as woke politics, and people saying what out this social injustice and what about that one. Jeez, they're so lucky.0 -
That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Trouble is, we already had that with Kick It Out and now we have people taking a knee which is a questionable gesture righty or wrongly associated with the BLM movement in the US.I disagree, I think the players that are partaking in both the ‘Kick it Out’ and taking the knee movements are doing it mostly to raise awareness to racism in football and in the world. The players have said it themselves recently. Just even listening to Ogbene on the news tonight, he didn’t mention anything political/divisive/BLM/etc. Most of these players I follow on SM or wherever don’t discuss they’re political views. Most players just want to make an apolitical message that racism is wrong in football and wider society, that’s about it really imo.
Retr0gamers hypocrisy really does highlight that we've already been through this with the poppy bull****. Saying that you dont think overtly political movements should be part of matchday at football was met with the exact same hysterical reaction - its not political, you hate the troops, you hate the UK, you are an IRA terrorist supporter, you are an ISIS supporter, all that crap. Now its you are a racist, you hate black people etc.
I wish these people would just **** off out of football.0 -
gormdubhgorm wrote: »So you really think it 'makes a difference' and will cause 'meaningful action'?
I think you are deluding and codding yourself.
The only way to combat rascism is at a young age in the home, people interacting with different people from different backgrounds.
But it is human nature that people stick with their own, whether that be race or soci-demographic background. And it creates a them and us. Mostly from working classes.
Taking a knee will solve none of this, it is pure pantomime imo.
Meaningful action is youth groups/clubs where people of all sorts of backgrounds can get to know others. 'Taking the knee' does none of this and one of a long line of Americanism's that have seeped into European and Worldwide society. High on optics, low on action.
Do you see any conflict in the 2 bits in Bold?
To speak to your combating racism. You are absolutely correct. It must happen at a young age. And currently a lad may come from a morally upstanding home but see his peers being racist at a match and think that that's cool or whatever.
Is it not much better if he isn't exposed to such behaviour?0 -
Tell me how wrote: »Absolutely not.
But the booing and the subsequent conversation is much more likely to make the clubs and authorities act against offenders than has happened in the past.
And this booing is drawing attention to the whole thing better nearly than anyone involved in it could have hoped for.
I don't think everyone booing is a racist, but I think everyone booing is ok with racists being present at games and to that I say, let the booing continue. Let them reveal themselves.
They can't reveal themselves when everyone is wearing masks .0 -
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Retr0gamer wrote: »It's because if you are against taking the knee you are one of two things:
1. A racist
2. Someone that has willingly or been gullibly enough to swallow the far right propoganda that the blm movement is some kind of organisation with terrorist/Marxist beliefs.
Both of these are bad.
Just those two options? How very tolerant of you. :rolleyes:0
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