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Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

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    #1052
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »
    And they say travel broadens the mind, it's a shame it doesn't seem to apply to you lot. Although I guess abroad for most is a year in Australia working on the sites and wearing the parish GAA jersey down to the Irish social club every weekend.

    A bunch of crypto-racists think I'm ignorant, devastating.

    Those unsophisticated plebs, how uncultured of them.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #1053
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »
    And they say travel broadens the mind, it's a shame it doesn't seem to apply to you lot. Although I guess abroad for most is a year in Australia working on the sites and wearing the parish GAA jersey down to the Irish social club every weekend.

    I live, for the most part, in China, where I am a distinct minority.. in a nation well known for it's racism. So.. yeah.. I'm aware of what racism entails, including systematic racism.
    A bunch of crypto-racists think I'm ignorant, devastating.

    I'll leave this part to the mods.


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    #1054
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,834 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I looked up John Barnes take on it. Former England international footballer who happens to be black. He always has a considered opinion.

    He believes that the gesture of taking the knee is tokenism and solves nothing.

    And if he was playing he would not 'take the knee'. Plus he said he supports BLM as he 'defines it' - meaning equality for all.

    However, he also said that people should not boo and should shut up and support their team.



    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #1055
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That goes both ways... including those advocates of BLM who would encourage reverse racism or expand race theory into Europe.
    Jesus you are absolutely obsessed with this stuff. Maybe you should get a hobby. Supporting a football team can be fun, or at least it used to be before you culture war ballbags got involved.


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    #1056
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jakiah wrote: »
    Jesus you are absolutely obsessed with this stuff.

    No, I'm concerned with this stuff. I saw how all this crap started in the US, the lack of resistance to it, and how it managed to influence policy as a result. The growth and establishment of PC culture, diversity, and inclusion policies that did little to encourage equality, but simply reinforced divisions, and increasing social unrest, along with a sense of entitlement.

    We have a range of systems in Europe which are much fairer and more concerned with equality than what existed in the US... and the people who advocate this stuff, tend to push for more and more aggressive changes as time goes by, especially, when they realise that people will be browbeaten into silence.

    Just like you're attempting to do. A lack of substance covered by accusations and emotional outbursts.
    Maybe you should get a hobby. Supporting a football team can be fun, or at least it used to be before you culture war ballbags got involved.

    I enjoy watching soccer matches, although I've never felt the need to follow a particular team. I do go to games whenever I'm in the UK. As for hobbies, I do have many, most of which are unrelated to boards.


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    #1057
    MarkEadie
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie


    jakiah wrote: »
    Jesus you are absolutely obsessed with this stuff. Maybe you should get a hobby. Supporting a football team can be fun, or at least it used to be before you culture war ballbags got involved.

    Correct me if I'm wrong here klaz but haven't you previously said that you are setting up an anti immigration party in Ireland? I'm sure I can find the posts by searching but can't quite recall the specifics. I believe you were genuinely trying to start an anti immigration party. Correct me if I'm wrong here.


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    #1058
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MarkEadie wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong here klaz but haven't you previously said that you are setting up an anti immigration party in Ireland? I'm sure I can find the posts by searching but can't quite recall the specifics. I believe you were genuinely trying to start an anti immigration party. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

    Okay. You're wrong. Completely inaccurate.


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    #1059
    VertBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭VertBlue


    I can't believe how angry people are getting about this.
    If the players want to make a statement about racial injustice and feel that taking a knee for a few seconds before a match starts is a good way of getting their message out there, then what is the issue.


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    #1060
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Okay. You're wrong. Completely inaccurate.

    Like I've said before, you spend most of your time on here arguing against other peoples hallucinations.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #1061
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    Like I've said before, you spend most of your time on here arguing against other peoples hallucinations.

    Ahh well, I've been stuck in Ireland due to covid, and unable to return easily to my work in China... so, while I can do a lot of my work online, I have a lot of free time for boards.. last/this year. That will change in the next month or so.


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    #1062
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    VertBlue wrote: »
    I can't believe how angry people are getting about this.
    If the players want to make a statement about racial injustice and feel that taking a knee for a few seconds before a match starts is a good way of getting their message out there, then what is the issue.

    Absolutely no issue. The players are entitled to make any message they want.

    If the fans want to boo them while they make their message, that's fine too.

    Only issue I have is that people are saying that people opposed to the knee gesture are racist or stupid.


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    #1063
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    VertBlue wrote: »
    I can't believe how angry people are getting about this.
    If the players want to make a statement about racial injustice and feel that taking a knee for a few seconds before a match starts is a good way of getting their message out there, then what is the issue.

    It's all subjective. Many struggle with the "racial justice" spin when the movement is full of anti white racists, especially in America. If it was just about racism in football, then I'd see little issue with it, because it would be a purer movement. They've attached themselves to BLM, a very dubious movement, which is where the skepticism comes from. Also, where is the anger? I don't see it.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #1064
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Andorra don't have a horrendous human rights record like the current Hungarian government does.

    And it wasn't blm. It was against hungary's horrendous treatment of minorities and immigrants.

    Did the Irish team do something when they played Qatar?

    I mean FFS how much worse in terms of despotic regimes can you get?
    Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »
    And they say travel broadens the mind, it's a shame it doesn't seem to apply to you lot. Although I guess abroad for most is a year in Australia working on the sites and wearing the parish GAA jersey down to the Irish social club every weekend.

    A bunch of crypto-racists think I'm ignorant, devastating.

    BTW maybe you should look up someone's background before putting your foot in it.

    And what the fook is a crypto racist?
    Do they only deal in bitcoin or something ?

    I believe nothing ever good happens in sport when things are taken from US sports.

    I think soccer has massive problem with racism, but taking the knee is just a box ticking exercise especially for authorities/associations and indeed clubs.
    I want serious sanctions for clubs and indeed countries that do not deal with racism.

    Lets see UEFA fook out some clubs, including big ones and FIFA not host tournaments in countries that openly tolerate discrimination for a start.

    And why don't players refuse to play in certain matches or in certain places, put their money where their mouth or their knee is.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #1065
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Absolutely no issue. The players are entitled to make any message they want.

    If the fans want to boo them while they make their message, that's fine too.
    Its far from fine IMO, its a PR disaster for football. A massive cock-up from those who administer the game.

    We are going to hear no end of this **** through Euro 2020.

    https://theathletic.com/news/croatia-england-euro-2020-take-knee/9Ky1nPI7Pgh3

    Theyve opened the floodgates to all sort of politicisation of football now, christ knows whats next.


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    #1066
    Ahwell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    jakiah wrote: »
    They should have switched to a different gesture when switching the branding. Easy to say in hindsight I guess. And it still wouldnt be enough for the right-wing fanbases across Europe.

    Theyve really backed themselves into a corner with this.

    The PFA did ask the players if they wanted to continue taking the knee. They sent out a survey with 5 questions
    Do you want to take the knee as a squad?
    Do you want to take the knee individually?
    If the knee is shown resistance by fans do you think it should be reconsidered?
    Would you welcome an alternative to taking a knee?
    If so, please give details?

    80 per cent of players 'support continuing this act of solidarity despite any adverse responses that may be received'.

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12165892/pfa-survey-shows-players-wish-to-continue-taking-a-knee-despite-some-fans-booing-the-anti-racism-gesture


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    #1067
    archfi
    Registered Users Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭archfi


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    I looked up John Barnes take on it. Former England international footballer who happens to be black. He always has a considered opinion.

    He believes that the gesture of taking the knee is tokenism and solves nothing.

    And if he was playing he would not 'take the knee'. Plus he said he supports BLM as he 'defines it' - meaning equality for all.

    However, he also said that people should not boo and should shut up and support their team.




    Huge respect for John Barnes and I agree with all of his points except the don't boo bit and the slight prevarication on other political gestures - 'maybe not appropriate' etc - no, IMO zero political gestures should be allowed. Zero.
    I also happen to admire Southgate's essay yesterday, all great points and well written - except the rationale for using the indelibly subservient gesture of 'taking the knee' which is 100% now associated with a very dodgy political organisation whether anyone likes it or not.
    Booing/cheering are the universal sporting signs of disapproval/approval.
    In today's increasingly curated world (for 'our own good' of course), how else can ordinary people voice opposition to what they disagree with* and more importantly, get it heard.

    If only Southgate and England had stuck to their guns in 2019 in Bulgaria, well that would have kickstarted a revolution in the fight against racism in football but instead the road to division was chosen.

    The ruling bodies of football should never have allowed any politically charged shít to enter the game.

    *disagree with does not equal being a 'racist' in this context at all, well in a sane reality.

    The issue is never the issue; the issue is always the revolution.

    The Entryism process: 1) Demand access; 2) Demand accommodation; 3) Demand a seat at the table; 4) Demand to run the table; 5) Demand to run the institution; 6) Run the institution to produce more activists and policy until they run it into the ground.



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    #1068
    MarkEadie
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Okay. You're wrong. Completely inaccurate.

    It's great to hear you are not as far down the line as I thought in terms of going that far to set up a party. I am not quite sure it's completely inaccurate as I do remember it quite vividly but the boards searching function is poor and neither of us are going to provide the links where I could have sworn you showed a great deal of interest in it. In any case I appreciate the clear up.


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    #1069
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    Ahwell wrote: »
    The PFA did ask the players if they wanted to continue taking the knee. They sent out a survey with 5 questions



    80 per cent of players 'support continuing this act of solidarity despite any adverse responses that may be received'.

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12165892/pfa-survey-shows-players-wish-to-continue-taking-a-knee-despite-some-fans-booing-the-anti-racism-gesture
    Interesting, cheers.


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    #1070
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ahwell wrote: »
    The PFA did ask the players if they wanted to continue taking the knee. They sent out a survey with 5 questions



    80 per cent of players 'support continuing this act of solidarity despite any adverse responses that may be received'.

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12165892/pfa-survey-shows-players-wish-to-continue-taking-a-knee-despite-some-fans-booing-the-anti-racism-gesture

    Fair play to them. If that's what they want to do.

    Doesn't mean I agree with them or think that people shouldn't boo them I'd they felt opposed to their gesture.


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    #1071
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MarkEadie wrote: »
    It's great to hear you are not as far down the line as I thought in terms of going that far to set up a party. I am not quite sure it's completely inaccurate as I do remember it quite vividly but the boards searching function is poor and neither of us are going to provide the links where I could have sworn you showed a great deal of interest in it. In any case I appreciate the clear up.

    Goodness me mark. You asked klaz to correct you, he did, yet you somehow made a direct rebuke of your claim into a thinly veiled accusation that he was lying, despite you admitting having no evidence.

    And you mentioned that klaz isn't going to provide you with a link to something he DIDNT say? Is it because it doesn't exist?

    Anyway, welcome to boards. I can see you are new here.


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    #1072
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MarkEadie wrote: »
    It's great to hear you are not as far down the line as I thought in terms of going that far to set up a party. I am not quite sure it's completely inaccurate as I do remember it quite vividly but the boards searching function is poor and neither of us are going to provide the links where I could have sworn you showed a great deal of interest in it. In any case I appreciate the clear up.

    Come back to the multiculturalism thread, and we'll discuss it. This isn't the place for it.


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    #1073
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Doesn't mean I agree with them or think that people shouldn't boo them

    No surprises


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    #1074
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    VertBlue wrote: »
    I can't believe how angry people are getting about this.
    If the players want to make a statement about racial injustice and feel that taking a knee for a few seconds before a match starts is a good way of getting their message out there, then what is the issue.

    The issue I would see is the Irish team are picking and choosing what country's they take the knee for. It's completely political to do it for some country's and not others.


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    #1075
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    The issue I would see is the Irish team are picking and choosing what country's they take the knee for. It's completely political to do it for some country's and not others.

    Is this happening? They're taking the knee against some teams and not others?


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    #1076
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12326458/taking-a-knee-football-fans-across-europe-asked-about-its-importance-and-if-they-support-it

    Some analysis of yougov poll here, worth a look.

    Interestingly 90%+ of people believe they understand exactly why players are taking the knee. Trouble is, I'd venture the perception of 'why' is wildly different across responsdents, just like in this thread.


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    #1077
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Is this happening? They're taking the knee against some teams and not others?
    Yes. Ireland took the knee against Hungary but not against Andorra three days before. Talk about fuel to the fire.


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    #1078
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    jakiah wrote: »
    Yes. Ireland took the knee against Hungary but not against Andorra three days before. Talk about fuel to the fire.

    That's why I don't understand the narrative that Hungry were booing because they're racist. Could easily be booing as an FU to the Irish players for calling them racist.


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    #1079
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    jakiah wrote: »
    Interestingly 90%+ of people believe they understand exactly why players are taking the knee. Trouble is, I'd venture the 'why' is wildly different across responsdents, just like in this thread.

    I'm not so sure.

    I think most of the 90% who agree with it would agree as to why they agree with it.

    Of the 10% who don't, i'd say the vast majority of those are also in agreement. Would many of them vocalise this? I'm not so sure. They would look to the motivations of the others (Americanisation, politics etc) and cling onto those answers. But, in reality, they don't really care about Americanisation.


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    #1080
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    John Doe1 wrote: »
    You lads can give it out but cannot take it.

    Says the lad crying over a few fellas making a gesture that has zero impact on him. It's everyone else that are the snowflakes though.


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    #1081
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    No surprises

    I'd hope you wouldn't be surprised. I've made my point as clear as I can. I sadly have to keep repeating it though because of unfounded accusations and misrepresentation of my position.

    I'm not angry at people taking the knee.


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