Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Yakov P. Golyadkin

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

That was my point. I used crypto-racists because I am clearly unable to assert proof of racism.

What now?

Bring back the good old days when the goose steppers were honest.

If you can't assert proof, it's usually a good idea to not make an accusation

Yakov P. Golyadkin

Danzy wrote: »

It all feels like a giant rich kid troll project..

Lol, rich kid, that's me told... I'm not sure how you people expect to be taken seriously.

Danzy

Deleted User wrote: »

If you can't assert proof, it's usually a good idea to not make an accusation

Where is the satisfaction in that.

Narcissism must be fed.

Danzy

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

Lol, rich kid, that's me told... I'm not sure how you people expect to be taken seriously.

I'm not talking about you specifically.

It's the modern Left and progressive movements.

There is a self obsession and narcissism that was unheard of even just 20 years ago.

It's killed the left across most of Europe, has probably finished Labour in England.

It's part of the wider crisis of the Left.

Gradius

MrStuffins wrote: »

They do.

Taking the knee is under the banner "No Room for Racism".

Yeah, that's very believable.

The Irish team were waiting for some Africans to join so as they could put on a display for traveller discrimination.

Believable, I tell ye. Not trendy at all.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It's pretty bad form to purposely misrepresent people when it's patently not true. The fact that klaz has offered to clarify and further discuss this matter in the appropriate thread is also telling that he is not arguing in bad faith.

Thanks. I'm quite tired of dealing with this nonsense. They just don't listen.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

Danzy wrote: »

I'm not talking about you specifically.

It's the modern Left and progressive movements.

There is a self obsession and narcissism that was unheard of even just 20 years ago.

It's killed the left across most of Europe, has probably finished Labour in England.

It's part of the wider crisis of the Left.

A tragedy I'm sure.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

That was my point. You used crypto-racists because you are clearly unable to assert proof of racism.

Asking for 'proof of racism' is being disingenuous. When anyone posts it here (as some have done in the past) it is reported, removed and they are banned.
They learn their lesson and so can easily couch their language so there is nothing definitive that you can point to.

It is very easy it is to be racist and not leave any verifiable evidence that you are so.

Same throughout discussions on BLM or even the GF killing with after the conviction, some people saying there was no proof Chauvin was racially motivated like that absolved him from his actions.

One time on here I posted an audio of a Sheriff from Arkansas calling a black man who spoke to the sheriffs girlfriend the N word several times. Someone actually said that there was still no evidence that he had ever been racist while performing his job.

It is consciously giving people a pass in my view and I think those doing this know exactly what they are doing.

MrStuffins

Gradius wrote: »

Yeah, that's very believable.

I'm glad we agree

Danzy

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

A tragedy I'm sure.

It is, Society needs a voice for those who are beaten up in the capitalist mill. The left have completely walked away from that and gone in to a middle class activist bubble.

We now live in a largely post left/right world as the Left walked away from real life politics.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Asking for 'proof of racism' is being disingenuous. When anyone posts it here (as some have done in the past) it is reported, removed and they are banned.
They learn their lesson and so can easily couch their language so there is nothing definitive that you can point to.

It is very easy it is to be racist and not leave any verifiable evidence that you are so.

Same throughout discussions on BLM or even the GF killing with after the conviction, some people saying there was no proof Chauvin was racially motivated like that absolved him from his actions.

One time on here I posted an audio of a Sheriff from Arkansas calling a black man who spoke to the sheriffs girlfriend the N word several times. Someone actually said that there was still no evidence that he had ever been racist while performing his job.

It is consciously giving people a pass in my view and I think those doing this know exactly what they are doing.

Well I disagree.

Racism is such a dirty accusation because it's a dirty way of thinking.

If you are to level an broad accusation which clearly implies certain posters, you should be able to point at why you believe the accusation to be valid.

Otherwise, point at the couched language and ask them to expand on it. If they are unable to, then you may have a point. But to assume the worst possible meaning to someone and then paint them as a racist because of your own interpretation of what they said is unfair.

jakiah

What in the flying **** is a crypto racist? A fascist who is into bitcoin?

Yakov P. Golyadkin

Tell me how wrote: »

Asking for 'proof of racism' is being disingenuous. When anyone posts it here (as some have done in the past) it is reported, removed and they are banned.
They learn their lesson and so can easily couch their language so there is nothing definitive that you can point to.

It is very easy it is to be racist and not leave any verifiable evidence that you are so.

It is consciously giving people a pass in my view and I think those doing this know exactly what they are doing.

Backofthenet.gif

Which is why I deliberately used the term I did.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

Danzy wrote: »

It is, Society needs a voice for those who are beaten up in the capitalist mill. The left have completely walked away from that and gone in to a middle class activist bubble.

We now live in a largely post left/right world as the Left walked away from real life politics.

And it also needs a voice for those beaten up in the racist mill. Yet here we are.

tjhook

If you adopt the symbology of a movement, you're exhibiting support for that movement.

Some here have said that "taking the knee" pre-dates BLM, and so it isn't an expression of support for BLM. By that logic, the swastika would be welcome on the terraces, as it has been a symbol of good fortune and peace for over a thousand years before more modern uses. It doesn't wash. A symbol represents whatever concept is most familiar to the people it's being presented to.

Black Lives Matter is controversial in its country of origin - in terms of whether it is solely about racism, or encompasses other political/societal topics. That's baggage, even if you support the anti-racism message. I think it was a mistake to import it all into football on this side of the world. If a team wants to deliver a message, it should be clear and without additional controversy beyond what its trying to communicate.

Previous anti-racism initiatives in football have not had such resistance, because they were clearly solely about racism.

And all that's before we consider how the the people of a country would feel being singled out as recipients of these symbols of social justice. Imagine if the English team was allowed to wear a poppy, but only chose to do so when coming to Ireland for a match. I'd bet we'd have some very unimpressed people here. Booing would be considered a restrained response!

Yakov P. Golyadkin

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

Backofthenet.gif

Which is why I deliberately used the term I did.

What a slippery slope if that is allowed.

It wouldn't be ok to accuse someone for being a secret paedo if you didn't have any tangible proof or evidence to back up your accusation.

But somehow it's ok to call someone a racist without proof.

Seems silly to me.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If you are to level an broad accusation which clearly implies certain posters, you should be able to point at why you believe the accusation to be valid.

It's also extremely misleading to assume that posts have been removed for everyone. I've appealed three bans in my whole time on boards, and in each case, the bans were lifted. The only posts of mine which have been deleted, were considered by the mods to be unrelated to the thread itself.

By setting the standard, that everyone who is accused of being racist, has had such posts removed, it gives permission for all manner of abusive posting styles. The assumption becomes "the truth" and those making the assumptions become, somehow, exempt from that same standard.

Should we be assuming that "Tell me How" is a racist, when we don't have any evidence to prove that he is? Nope. We shouldn't. It's the same reason these claims of subconscious or crypto-racism are pure nonsense. They can easily be turned back on the people making the claims... how would they prove otherwise?

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Well I disagree.

Racism is such a dirty accusation because it's a dirty way of thinking.

If you are to level an broad accusation which clearly implies certain posters, you should be able to point at why you believe the accusation to be valid.

Otherwise, point at the couched language and ask them to expand on it. If they are unable to, then you may have a point. But to assume the worst possible meaning to someone and then paint them as a racist because of your own interpretation of what they said is unfair.

I already did. Post #962

Anyone smart enough to use couched language (and you don't need to be that smart) are smart enough to dance around it when questioned on it. The burden of proof is practically impossible in these cases because they know what is happening and how it will go should they continue.

nolivesmatter

Tell me how wrote: »

Asking for 'proof of racism' is being disingenuous. When anyone posts it here (as some have done in the past) it is reported, removed and they are banned.
They learn their lesson and so can easily couch their language so there is nothing definitive that you can point to.

It is very easy it is to be racist and not leave any verifiable evidence that you are so.

Same throughout discussions on BLM or even the GF killing with after the conviction, some people saying there was no proof Chauvin was racially motivated like that absolved him from his actions.

One time on here I posted an audio of a Sheriff from Arkansas calling a black man who spoke to the sheriffs girlfriend the N word several times. Someone actually said that there was still no evidence that he had ever been racist while performing his job.

It is consciously giving people a pass in my view and I think those doing this know exactly what they are doing.

I've been through that thread. I've seen plenty of claims that there was no proof that it was racially motivated. I've also seen some claims that he didn't do anything wrong. But I've never seen any claim that the lack of proof that it was racially motivated meant he was absolved of any wrongdoing.

When people here ask for proof of racism in this thread they're not looking for you to cite a post with the N word in it or something. But surely you can just reference a few posts that you think is implying racism? That way people have a chance to actually challenge/debate what you're positing. I really think you might be misunderstanding some people here.

sligeach

Hungarian PM Orban defends fans' booing of Irish players

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0610/1227326-hungarian-pm-orban-defends-booing-of-irish-players/

WrenBoy

nolivesmatter wrote: »

Stop being so vague. Put your big boy pants on and name them.

Apparently its the Extreme Cryptographic Hungarians we've learned. And they are so cryptographic that they don't even know they are one themselves. spoooky.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's the same reason these claims of subconscious or crypto-racism are pure nonsense. They can easily be turned back on the people making the claims... how would they prove otherwise?

Feel free to, speaking for myself I'd treat any such accusation with the same seriousness it deserves. I certainly wouldn't be tying myself in knots claiming otherwise.

Let's be real, this forum is a venting board for cranks and yes, there's a hell of a lot of racists amongst that number.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/world/canada/muslim-family-london.html

Have we had a thread on that yet? Has it gotten 1000 posts in less than 48 hours? If that was a Muslim running over a 'Canadian' family this place would be in meltdown.

But no, posters here are definitely well adjusted people who only want to watch a game of football in peace.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

sligeach wrote: »

Hungarian PM Orban defends fans' booing of Irish players

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0610/1227326-hungarian-pm-orban-defends-booing-of-irish-players/

Victor 'the Enlightened' Orban. Good company to keep.

Tell me how

nolivesmatter wrote: »

Stop being so vague. Put your big boy pants on and name them.

Why, so you can then dispute the minutiae of a singular post without the context of the broader discussion or the speed or time of the conversation when it happened? These are all relevant factors.

You've asked me in a separate post to this to point to a few posts that are implying racism. I'm not going to to that because of the same reason but also what I've said already that it is easy to hide sentiment within a specific post and quite often as well, it isn't a singular post that communicates the sentiment but a series of posts.

MrStuffins

BattleCorp wrote: »

The fact that I think those things doesn't mean that I think he deserved to die because he was "a drug-crazed criminal resisting arrest".

Must have been a different poster who called him the above then.

BattleCorp

MrStuffins wrote: »

Must have been a different poster who called him the above then.

I will go a bit further though, although this might give you ammo to have a go at me.

I'm actually fine with people booing taking the knee. Would I boo anybody taking the knee, absolutely not.

The reason I'm fine with it, freedom of speech. It's a form of peaceful protest just as taking the knee is a form of peaceful protest.

Danzy

WrenBoy wrote: »

Apparently its the Extreme Cryptographic Hungarians we've learned. And they are so cryptographic that they don't even know they are one themselves. spooky.

I've been called a crypto Jew by a pro Palestinian activist in Dublin, said how I thought both sides were horrible.

He was drunk in fairness.

The thrill is in passing judgement and the moral condemnation.

I don't believe he disliked Jews but it's the thrill of the moral condemnation that drives them.

MrStuffins

BattleCorp wrote: »

The reason I'm fine with it, freedom of speech.

That's a limp answer though. I don't think anyone is saying anyone who boos should be thrown in prison. Nobody is saying they shouldn't be allowed boo. Supporting freedom of speech is one thing.

What people are saying is that the motivation for a lot of those boos is xenophobia and racism. If you're supporting this, then that's a different story.

Some on the thread are trying to make out that this isn't the case and that it's all about politics and BLM. It's clearly not. And it's not for a lot of them either.

Danzy

MrStuffins wrote: »

What people are saying is that the motivation for a lot of those boos is xenophobia and racism. If you're supporting this, then that's a different story.

That's the bit people are skeptical about and are very skeptical about the people backing it.

If it wasn't the usual rich kid activists preaching against sin, it would likely have been uncontroversial, same as any other anti racism campaign in soccer.

Lot of the booing is just working class bolshie.

To use an English phrase, the rich kids don't like it up 'em, thats a key driver.

MrStuffins

Danzy wrote: »

That's the bit people are skeptical about ........

It's the usual suspects who are skeptical. Everyone else knows the score.