Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Gradius

Football team from continent X get booed by another football team from continent X for trying to score virtue points, at their expense, mimicking problems that people from continent Y have in country Z.

Why wouldn't they boo at such insincerity?

Fandymo

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

What do you mean trendy? Did you notice that Ireland have a number of black players in the team and they gave their reasons why they were kneeling? To whoever said it was nothing to do with Hungary, doing it in a country that elected that Orban thing twice is entirely appropriate.

So you are against democracy?? What system should Hungary use? President Idol where they can phone into the Magyar Ant and Dec and vote off the worst president every week??

Tell me how

Gradius wrote: »

Football team from continent X get booed by another football team from continent X for trying to score virtue points, at their expense, mimicking problems that people from continent Y have in country Z.

Why wouldn't they boo at such insincerity?

'Football team with black players call for action to stop racism and gets booed by racists and those wanting to ignore others who experience racism' is actually the real story if you want to edit your post and swap out the bit in bold for this.

Danzy

Tell me how wrote: »

'Football team with black players call for action to stop racism and gets booed by racists and those wanting to ignore others who experience racism' is actually the real story if you want to edit your post and swap out the bit in bold for this.

I really think you believe that.

It's the only credible explanation for your posts.

Interesting.

gormdubhgorm

Tell me how wrote: »

So they should shut up and not disturb the proceedings in a way which makes anyone uncomfortable and should trust that the same practices which have attempted to weed out racism, and which haven't worked before, will actually work going forward?

Is that your position?

My position is the same as John Barnes and Les Ferdinand in that is it a pointless exercise with no real meaning that achieves nothing.

Barnes called it 'tokenist'.
Ferdinand called it 'diluted' going through the motions.

Zaha was embarrassed by it. I would agree there as well I feel embarrassed for the players doing it. Especially the black players. It looks ridiculous.

From what I know of you on boards you are the type who would fall in line for a meaningless grandiose gesture that is all about optics. It achieves NOTHING.

I also have a feeling there is a an echo of 'white man's guilt' among some Caucasian players/management a need to overcompensate. Such individuals as Southgate. Out of a middle management play book. And most young black players seem codded that they are 'making a difference'. How exactly? By going in submissive position and kneeling?

The first time I saw this gesture I was shocked how silly it looked. Immediately thinking of the Film Planet of the Apes. You know the submissive gesture thing? And thought racists would have a field day with this!

Zaha is spot on in saying it is embarrassing. And it sends out the wrong message to that which is intended.

nullzero

The real problem with taking the knee is that is having no effect whatsoever.

Black footballers still receive racist abuse online no matter how many times they take the knee before kick off.

The issue is dealing with the online abuse, and going forward the few morons in grounds who racially abuse players. The responsibility for that doesn't rest with players and as a number of black footballers have realised taking the knee isn't effective and have stopped engaging in the practice.

Ultimately the platforms that host this behaviour have to take responsibility for what is posted by their users, they're not short of money let them sort their own houses out at long last.

Danzy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

My position is the same as John Barnes and Les Ferdinand in that is it a pointless exercise with no real meaning that achieves nothing.

Barnes called it 'tokenist'.
Ferdinand called it 'diluted' going through the motions.

Zaha was embarrassed by it. I would agree there as well I feel embarrassed for the players doing it. It looks ridiculous.

From what I know of you on boards you are the type who would fall in line for a meaningless grandiose gesture that is all about optics. It achieves NOTHING.

I also have a feeling there is a an echo of 'white man's guilt' among caucasian players a need to overcompensate. Such individuals as Southgate. Out of a middle management play book. And most young black players seem codded that they are 'making a difference'. How exactly? By going in submissive position and kneeling?

The first time I saw this gesture I thought of the Film Planet of the Apes. You know the submissive gesture thing. And thought racists would have a field day with this!

Zaha is spot on in saying it is embarrassing.

It's selfish of those players to take the focus away from the activists.

Gradius

Tell me how wrote: »

'Football team with black players call for action to stop racism and gets booed by racists and those wanting to ignore others who experience racism' is actually the real story if you want to edit your post and swap out the bit in bold for this.

Ah yeah, like the other poster trying to say that it stands for traveller discrimination too.

Funny how they waited to make such bold statements about every single bit of discrimination ever.

It's insincere.

Gradius

Danzy wrote: »

I really think you believe that.

It's the only credible explanation for your posts.

Interesting.

It's the equivalent of some nincompoop declaring that "puppies are nice!" over and over just to gain credit for being a good boy.

It won't be long before they start to agitate people with such insincerity, and of course then they'll scream "you hate puppies, you're a bad boy!" for pointing out their crap.

Fook all that nonsense

Larbre34

MrStuffins wrote: »

So the racists who were booing the anti-racist gesture weren't racially motivated............

It would be a big mistake to write off all of those booing in Budapest or booing the England team, as racists. Theres a whole lot more going on here.

Look at the Orban response. He's a populist, ultra nationalist, anti islamist. He's probably a default racist too, but primarily he's anti-liberal, anti-progressive, anti-left, anti "old" Europe socialism and so on.

Today he characterised the Irish team gesture as "provocative" because he wanted to use it to his advantage, being a symbol of all he opposes that I describe above. He's saying, 'look at those woke pinkos, my people were right to boo them'. The racism message becomes entirely incidental. And thats the way feckers like Orban operate, this is just fuel to him.

I agree with the poster above, for all sorts of good reasons, lets leave politics entirely out of sport. Its never a winner.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Enough said on this. It's going nowhere.

Tell me something I don't know.

Notable that the rest of my post was ignored though.

nolivesmatter

Tell me how wrote: »

Why, so you can then dispute the minutiae of a singular post without the context of the broader discussion or the speed or time of the conversation when it happened? These are all relevant factors.

You've asked me in a separate post to this to point to a few posts that are implying racism. I'm not going to to that because of the same reason but also what I've said already that it is easy to hide sentiment within a specific post and quite often as well, it isn't a singular post that communicates the sentiment but a series of posts.

No, because I genuinely don't know what posts you or anyone have read here that implies racism. I see a lot of talk around the subjects of race and racism, I don't see posts that suggest a racial prejudice.

Danzy

Gradius wrote: »

It's the equivalent of some nincompoop declaring that "puppies are nice!" over and over just to gain credit for being a good boy.

It won't be long before they start to agitate people with such insincerity, and of course then they'll scream "you hate puppies, you're a bad boy!" for pointing out their crap.

Fook all that nonsense

The Left and progressive modern activists should look to history, the collapse of the Catholic Church when people no longer took the sanctimony and screaming from the pulpit.

The same class of people who filled the Seminary are now activists and it's largely the same motivation for both.

Danzy

Danzy wrote: »

The Left and progressive modern activists should look to history, the collapse of the Catholic Church when people no longer took the sanctimony and screaming from the pulpit.

The same class of people who filled the Seminary are now activists and it's largely the same motivation for both.

More like to be national party supporters and other such buckets of sh1t to be fair.

nullzero

DubInMeath wrote: »

More like to be national party supporters and other such buckets of sh1t to be fair.

The problem with that idea is that the National Party has next to no members and even less support where the other end of the political extremist spectrum is very well represented in Ireland.

MrStuffins

Larbre34 wrote: »

It would be a big mistake to write off all of those booing in Budapest or booing the England team, as racists.

Just as well I didn't say that then

MrStuffins

nolivesmatter wrote: »

No, because I genuinely don't know what posts you or anyone have read here that implies racism.

You have people here saying that racists were booing, but when the racists were booing an anti-racism message they weren't booing out of racism. To some on this thread, there is absolutely no way they will concede anything to do with racism and they'll do it by any means

I've just watched the entire run of Quantum Leap and there were fewer leaps than on this thread.

Necro

Yakov P. Golyadkin wrote: »

Snowflake.

Threadbanned

MarkEadie

nolivesmatter wrote: »

No, because I genuinely don't know what posts you or anyone have read here that implies racism. I see a lot of talk around the subjects of race and racism, I don't see posts that suggest a racial prejudice.

I think it's quite obvious to many. Who and what he's talking about is fairly evident. So you are in a minority here not grasping what he is saying. I'm not going to speculate on the possible reasons but perhaps understanding that you are in an extreme minority in terms of your inability to gain an understanding of what was being said. I think there is a chance you do understand but I can't rule out that you might not so it's difficult to proceed with a post. I thought making it clear that you are in the minority in terms of not understanding would be helpful. I wish you the best.

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

The problem with that idea is that the National Party has next to no members and even less support where the other end of the political extremist spectrum is very well represented in Ireland.

Not necessarily true, but being outnumbered is a good thing as it's something that they like to claim as part of their victimhood and often claimed on here.

Necro

Multiple off topic posts deleted. I'll give one final warning and then I'll start handing out cards and bans like confetti - stop attacking other posters. If you cannot argue a point based on the content of someone's posts then don't bother making it.

Don't drag the thread off topic and stop firing around the racism accusation - if you have a problem with someone else's posting report it and leave it to the mods

nullzero

DubInMeath wrote: »

Not necessarily true, but being outnumbered is a good thing as it's something that they like to claim as part of their victimhood and often claimed on here.

Not necessarily true? You should look at their results in last years general election, beyond pathetic.

I have seen a lot of these types of threads on this site and I don't recall once seeing a single user support the National Party present in any of them.

The perception of the far right casts a long shadow on this site and in Irish society at large but the reality isn't anywhere near what the scaremongering about the far right suggests.

EDIT. just saw mod warning after posting this, if it's considered off topic delete.

MrStuffins

Honest question:

Are there actually people here who believe that none of those people who were booing were doing so with racial motivations?

Tell me how

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

My position is the same as John Barnes and Les Ferdinand in that is it a pointless exercise with no real meaning that achieves nothing.

Barnes called it 'tokenist'.
Ferdinand called it 'diluted' going through the motions.

Zaha was embarrassed by it. I would agree there as well I feel embarrassed for the players doing it. Especially the black players. It looks ridiculous.

From what I know of you on boards you are the type who would fall in line for a meaningless grandiose gesture that is all about optics. It achieves NOTHING.

I also have a feeling there is a an echo of 'white man's guilt' among some Caucasian players/management a need to overcompensate. Such individuals as Southgate. Out of a middle management play book. And most young black players seem codded that they are 'making a difference'. How exactly? By going in submissive position and kneeling?

The first time I saw this gesture I was shocked how silly it looked. Immediately thinking of the Film Planet of the Apes. You know the submissive gesture thing? And thought racists would have a field day with this!

Zaha is spot on in saying it is embarrassing. And it sends out the wrong message to that which is intended.

Interesting how you can reference Barnes, Zaha and Ferdinand and completely ignore the point they are making.

I have already said I've no problem with Zaha no longer taking part. Each of these people have suggested that more needs to be done than just kneeling. That is the point, but not enough was being done anyway. Racist incidents have increased over the last number of years in spite of the campaigns in place to reduce them.

But here is why the kneeling is significant, because of the reaction to it. If there was no reaction to it, I'd have no opinion on whether to do it or not but because there is such the reaction and vitriol coming from some, it is forcing the conversation.
As this builds, the clubs and organizing bodies will have to either implement meaningful change or cave in to the bigots in the stands.

You can't grasp that, very little progress or significant change came about as a consequence of singular dramatic events but rather the sustained call for action (which proves it isn't a short term fad) building to moments of more intense focus such as we are in right now. This could well fade away without significant changes but the next call for action will be built on the back of the awareness that this phase is creating.

As for your assumption about what you know of me, I don't care what it is or how strongly you feel about it, but next time you or others are demanding proof of racist or prejudiced sentiment, ask yourself how you formed such an impression of me.

Lastly, given you invoked the names of those above, do you think that they are correct in their views as to the problem that exists and what do you think should be done to correct this and how should this come about?

MrMusician18

MrStuffins wrote: »

Honest question:

Are there actually people here who believe that none of those people who were booing were doing so with racial motivations?

I bet there were at least a few (likely more than a few) racists booing.

But are there people here that actually believe that some of those kneeling weren't doing so out of commercial or peer pressure, social media kudos or political motivations?

It's very hard to accurately capture motivations of a group that's made up of individuals.

Tell me how

Danzy wrote: »

The Left and progressive modern activists should look to history, the collapse of the Catholic Church when people no longer took the sanctimony and screaming from the pulpit.

The same class of people who filled the Seminary are now activists and it's largely the same motivation for both.

You are close to 100% wrong on this.

I think you'll find the ideals of those previously within the confines of religion are much more closely aligned with the uber conservative amongst us today.

Resistance to abortion, resistance to SSM, suspicions about immigration, disbelieve in climate change. All views much more commonly held with those who currently or previously prescribed to various religious orders.

Chris_Heilong

The fans want politics to stay out of Sports, it is really that simple. The Irish players came off as very ill informed about the Marxist BLM organization, at least the Hungarians knew what was up.

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

Honest question:

Are there actually people here who believe that none of those people who were booing were doing so with racial motivations?

If they didn't you wouldn't have this and any similar threads with the same people posting the same arguments against the idea that they were, and conversely those posting their opposing views.

Danzy

DubInMeath wrote: »

More like to be national party supporters and other such buckets of sh1t to be fair.

The difference in type is small but the national Party is tiny.

Not even a fraction of the Worker's Party type small.

Gradius

Tell me how wrote: »

You are close to 100% wrong on this.

I think you'll find the ideals of those previously within the confines of religion are much more closely aligned with the uber conservative amongst us today.

Resistance to abortion, resistance to SSM, suspicions about immigration, disbelieve in climate change. All views much more commonly held with those who currently or previously prescribed to various religious orders.

Believing in entirely fictional things that are directly, 100% in contravention of science? Check.

Forcing their way into the education of children on what can only be described as lunacy? Check.

No such thing as borders? Check.

A invasion-of-the-body-snatchers scream if you do not blindly follow insanity based entirely on infant emotions? Check.

Control of media at large to propagate the religion? Check.

Hypocrisy left, right and center (criticism of homophobia coupled with mass invitation of homophobic people from medievil religions to live beside YOU not THEM, preaching supposed tolerance, versus fascist reactions if you don't like what they preach and many, many more)? Check.

Witch hunts to vilify non-believers, to "cancel" people and punish them, a term I read here today "offence archaeology" ? Check.

A rushing impulse to prove yourself worthy on the eyes of your bizarre peers? Check. And relevant to this thread on a football team trying it's best to curry favour.

If you're not a zealot, you are branded an "-ist", thou shalt not.

There is certainly a slant towards conservatism when it comes to environmentalism which is unfortunately true.

But overall, you're sniffing glue if you can't see the glaring comparisons between one lot of illogical zealots and another. So, so far away from the truth. But then again, that makes sense, doesn't it!